Philippe Gilbert, Cyclist of the year

[luckyboy]

Pretty easy poll. And when you consider the Canada races, the Worlds, Paris-Tours, Lombardia etc. etc. are still to come it could get better for Gilbert.

 

[King Of The Wolds]

I repeat: we already knew he could win one-week stage races.

Despite the lack of really selective GC stuff during the first 2 weeks, there's still a big difference between a proper 1 week race and performing well during the GC relevant 3rd week of the TdF after racing 200km every day for the previous 2 weeks.

 

[King Of The Wolds]

It's unfair to evaluate Cavendish's year just yet with realistic objectives at the Vuelta and WC. His targets, like last year, are weighted towards the second half of the year. I think he's the only guy now capable of taking the cyclist of the year honours off Gilbert but it'll require becoming World Champion, retaining the Vuelta points classification and 3 or 4 stage wins which is highly unlikely.

The OP has adjudged Cavendish's year based on his 2009 performance, which is harsh. Gilbert, no doubt, will suffer from the same in years subsequent to this. Their seasons should only be judged as a distinct body of work and compared against those of their peers. Cav's season, even without any further success, would be one that virtually every sprinter in history would be desperate to have.

 

[Mambo95]

The OP has adjudged Cavendish's year based on his 2009 performance, which is harsh. Gilbert, no doubt, will suffer from the same in years subsequent to this. Their seasons should only be judged as a distinct body of work and compared against those of their peers. Cav's season, even without any further success, would be one that virtually every sprinter in history would be desperate to have.

I think the measure of his greatness (and I mean greatness) is that he has made the extraordinary seem mundane. Before he came along, no-one had won five stages in a single Tour for nearly 30 years (when there were more stages), now he's done it three years in a row (with four the year before that) people have stopped seeing it as special - which it is.

As to rider of the year - best to wait for the year to end. At the moment I'd put Gilbert and Evans neck and neck (Evans's wins are of higher status than Contador's). If Cavendish were to win the World's (which I have doubts over) and a Vuelta stage (to become only the 4th rider to win a stage in all 3 GTs in a single year) then he'd be right up there with them.

 

[The Hitch]

Cav's season, even without any further success, would be one that virtually every sprinter in history would be desperate to have.

Really? He won 2 stages at the Giro and 5 at the Tour with points. An amazing season no doubt, but I think other sprinters have made better seasons, and Cav himself will have perhaps better seasons to come.

Id rate a monument and just a few stages at the Tour better than Cav so far this season. He obviously can make this season even more special at Vuelta and worlds and maybe PT.

But "without any further success" I can see 1 or 2 of Boonens seasons, 1 or 2 of Freires, Cippolini 2002 being better to name a few from recent memory.

In fact I think Cav 2009 with MSR and was it 6 or 7 Tour stages, was better than his season so far.

 

[jsem94]

But "without any further success" I can see 1 or 2 of Boonens seasons, 1 or 2 of Freires, Cippolini 2002 being better to name a few from recent memory.

Or Petacchi's season where he won like 15 GT stages.

 

[Waterloo Sunrise]

Really? He won 2 stages at the Giro and 5 at the Tour with points. An amazing season no doubt, but I think other sprinters have made better seasons, and Cav himself will have perhaps better seasons to come.

Id rate a monument and just a few stages at the Tour better than Cav so far this season. He obviously can make this season even more special at Vuelta and worlds and maybe PT.

But "without any further success" I can see 1 or 2 of Boonens seasons, 1 or 2 of Freires, Cippolini 2002 being better to name a few from recent memory.

In fact I think Cav 2009 with MSR and was it 6 or 7 Tour stages, was better than his season so far.

Hence he said virtually any, and, given most cyclists ride for more than 1 year, I think most sprinters would be happy to take that as their 2nd or 3rd best year, as it is for Cav at present. If we're including Boonen in this discussion we might as well start trying to compare Cav with TeamGadret - not comparable riders in the slightest.

The point that was made, I thought fairly obviously, was that any sprinter would love to have Cav's year to date as part of their body of work. For most but not all it would be their best ever.

 

[Mambo95]

But "without any further success" I can see 1 or 2 of Boonens seasons, 1 or 2 of Freires, Cippolini 2002 being better to name a few from recent memory.

Almost all of those seasons were due great due to them winning the Worlds. Thereby demonstrating why we shouldn't really be discussing this before October.

 

[El Pistolero]

I dispute the assertion that ANY of Gilbert's wins are in races more important than the GC of the Giro d'Italia.

In his entire career, not just this year.

When was the last time someone won Brabantse Pijl, Amstel Gold Race, Fleche Wallone, Luik-Bastenaken-Luik, National championships, stage at the Tour plus yellow jersey and the Clasica San Sebastian in one season?

When was the last time someone won the Giro in one season? (just kidding)

I definitely find the Ardennes tripple way more impressive than a Giro win.

 

[El Pistolero]

WTF are you talking about?

Contadors competition in Giro was very impressive. 6 out of 9 active grand tour winners. All then active Tour de France winners. Menchov and his 3 gt wins. Last years world number 1. The top 3 riders from cq last year actually.

All peaked for the Giro.

Gilbert on the other hand was missing his 2 great rivals in every race he won. The others - schlecks, Purito, Samu were guys adjusting their peaks for other points of the year.

On paper Cadel had a tough challenge but when you take into account the crashes and ttts all Cadel was left with to beat was the Schleck brothers.

Menchov sucked. Sastre sucked. Di Luca sucked. Garzelli sucked(for GC, guy is mega old)

No offence, but you're making things look better then they are. There was only one decent active GC winner at this Giro and that was Nibali(not including Contador ofc). The guy that narrowly beat Mosquera at the Vuelta last year... The competition wasn't weak, but it definitely wasn't as impressive as you try and make it out to be.

Joaquim Rodriguez was number one on the UCI list, but he wasn't the best cyclist in the world or anything, far from it. In fact, he SUCKED at the Giro until the last week(and I still think he sucked in the last week). Obviously peaked wrong. Rodriguez was in way better form at AGR and FW. And just look at how he did in the Dauphiné. He peaked for that lol.

 

[El Pistolero]

Really? He won 2 stages at the Giro and 5 at the Tour with points. An amazing season no doubt, but I think other sprinters have made better seasons, and Cav himself will have perhaps better seasons to come.

Id rate a monument and just a few stages at the Tour better than Cav so far this season. He obviously can make this season even more special at Vuelta and worlds and maybe PT.

But "without any further success" I can see 1 or 2 of Boonens seasons, 1 or 2 of Freires, Cippolini 2002 being better to name a few from recent memory.

In fact I think Cav 2009 with MSR and was it 6 or 7 Tour stages, was better than his season so far.

Those guys weren't pure sprinters though. Not even Cipo, that guy was a freak in 2002! How he blasted from one echelon to another earned my ever lasting respect(as long as I don't read his bull**** articles in GDS)

And yes, 2009 was a better season for him, by a long shot.

 

[uphillstruggle]

Not that it really matters. We haven't learnt anything new about Evans this year. We already knew he was a gritty cyclist, and we already knew he could win on short, sharp uphill finishes, and we already knew he could win one-week stage races.

Well we have learnt that he can still TT with the very best. Many, including myself, thought he has long something there but clearly not.

 

[El Pistolero]

I for sure didn't think he had it in him to win the Tour.

 

[The Hitch]

When was the last time someone won Brabantse Pijl, Amstel Gold Race, Fleche Wallone, Luik-Bastenaken-Luik, National championships, stage at the Tour plus yellow jersey and the Clasica San Sebastian in one season?

When was the last time someone won the Giro in one season?

I definitely find the Ardennes tripple way more impressive than a Giro win.

I dont. Well I do, just not in this case, but its beside the point. Libertine Seguros said that the Giro was bigger than any of Gilberts victories.

That does not mean you lump some of his victories together, and say that those races together are bigger than the Giro.

Thats like me saying that i think TA is bigger than Paris Nice and you saying " I think Tirreno Adriatico, Milan San Remo and Tour de Suiise are together far more important than Paris Nice".

 

[Libertine Seguros]

When was the last time someone won Brabantse Pijl, Amstel Gold Race, Fleche Wallone, Luik-Bastenaken-Luik, National championships, stage at the Tour plus yellow jersey and the Clasica San Sebastian in one season?

When was the last time someone won the Giro in one season? (just kidding)

I definitely find the Ardennes tripple way more impressive than a Giro win.

That's three races. My point was that no race that Gilbert has won is worth more than a Giro. EVER. And unless Gilbert wins the Tour, I don't see that changing.

And if we're dealing with the cumulative factor, when was the last time someone won the Volta ao Algarve, Paris-Nice, Castilla y León, 2 stages of the Dauphiné and won the Tour de France in the same year? Oh yes, that's right. Last year.

 

[El Pistolero]

That's three races. My point was that no race that Gilbert has won is worth more than a Giro. EVER. And unless Gilbert wins the Tour, I don't see that changing.

And if we're dealing with the cumulative factor, when was the last time someone won the Volta ao Algarve, Paris-Nice, Castilla y León, 2 stages of the Dauphiné and won the Tour de France in the same year? Oh yes, that's right. Last year.

I think there are cyclists out there who rate the world championships higher than the Giro.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

I think there are cyclists out there who rate the world championships higher than the Giro.

Sorry, I must have missed when Gilbert won the World Championships?

As far as I know he hasn't, so whether people rate the Worlds higher than the Giro is irrelevant to the statement.

 

[The Hitch]

I for sure didn't think he had it in him to win the Tour.

What does that mean. Every single one of his opponents Evans had beaten at some point in a grand Tour apart from Contador of course, who is the only person there who Evans can do nothing against.

We all knew Contador was going into that race nowhere near on form.

If he can come 2nd twice why cant he come first especially when the one guy who is head and shoulders above the rest wasnt himself.

People on here act like when the position changes from 2nd to 1st suddenly riders get stones in their legs. As if there is some magic wall which stops those who have never won doing so.

Everyone who wins something has a debut win.

Cyclists just go out there and do their best. They then look where their legs, fate and a bit of luck has put them.

You hear the same arguments claiming Andy will never win a gt. Some magic power preventing him from ever winning a gt.

And afterall what did Evans have to do. Contador out of the way. Menchov out of the way. He went in having to beat Schleck, and 1 or 2 gt riders at his level.

He could do it at the Worlds. He could do it at FW. Hes done it before at the 2008 Tour with most of them, or at the 2009 Vuelta with Basso.

Ok so Schleck was young in 08 and was the favourite but there was still every chance that Evans could beat him.


And in the end all the other riders that could challenge him got screwed somewhere along the way.

So what was it that you didnt think Evans had in him? A guy who has come 2nd at the Tour twice, won the worlds and podiumed the Vuelta and won on the Muur?

 

[El Pistolero]

What does that mean. Every single one of his opponents Evans had beaten at some point in a grand Tour apart from Contador of course, who is the only person there who Evans can do nothing against.

We all knew Contador was going into that race nowhere near on form.

If he can come 2nd twice why cant he come first especially when the one guy who is head and shoulders above the rest wasnt himself.

People on here act like when the position changes from 2nd to 1st suddenly riders get stones in their legs. As if there is some magic wall which stops those who have never won doing so.

Everyone who wins something has a debut win.

Cyclists just go out there and do their best. They then look where their legs, fate and a bit of luck has put them.

You hear the same arguments claiming Andy will never win a gt. Some magic power preventing him from ever winning a gt.

And afterall what did Evans have to do. Contador out of the way. Menchov out of the way. He went in having to beat Schleck, and 1 or 2 gt riders at his level.

He could do it at the Worlds. He could do it at FW. Hes done it before at the 2008 Tour with most of them, or at the 2009 Vuelta with Basso.

Ok so Schleck was young in 08 and was the favourite but there was still every chance that Evans could beat him.


And in the end all the other riders that could challenge him got screwed somewhere along the way.

So what was it that you didnt think Evans had in him? A guy who has come 2nd at the Tour twice, won the worlds and podiumed the Vuelta and won on the Muur?

34 years old, was crap in last 2 Tours, got beaten in Giro last year by Nibali and Scarponi, notorious for cracking under peer pressure, bad team support on paper, Contador allowed to start the Tour, I'm not a fortune teller so could never have guessed so many people would crash. Need more reasons?

 

[The Hitch]

That's three races. My point was that no race that Gilbert has won is worth more than a Giro. EVER. And unless Gilbert wins the Tour, I don't see that changing.

And if we're dealing with the cumulative factor, when was the last time someone won the Volta ao Algarve, Paris-Nice, Castilla y León, 2 stages of the Dauphiné and won the Tour de France in the same year? Oh yes, that's right. Last year.

Never figured you for much of a Contador fan LS.

I think there are cyclists out there who rate the world championships higher than the Giro.

Yeah. Ones that cant win the Giro.

 

[El Pistolero]

Sorry, I must have missed when Gilbert won the World Championships?

As far as I know he hasn't, so whether people rate the Worlds higher than the Giro is irrelevant to the statement.

"And unless Gilbert wins the Tour, I don't see that changing."

Besides, we already know the winner of next year

 

[El Pistolero]

Never figured you for much of a Contador fan LS.



Yeah. Ones that cant win the Giro.

I remember Joaquim saying he valued LBL higher than the Vuelta(calling it even higher than the WC, he's really in love with that event. He's overdoing it if you ask me ). And he thinks he can win both I suppose.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Never figured you for much of a Contador fan LS.

Cineteq's original statement which started this off was that Gilbert should be above Contador on the list of riders of the year, because his wins have come in bigger and better races.

I don't dispute that Gilbert should be above Contador on the list of riders of the year. I do dispute that his wins have come in bigger races than Contador's, because the Giro is, Tour aside, the biggest race there is.

 

[El Pistolero]

Cineteq's original statement which started this off was that Gilbert should be above Contador on the list of riders of the year, because his wins have come in bigger and better races.

I don't dispute that Gilbert should be above Contador on the list of riders of the year. I do dispute that his wins have come in bigger races than Contador's, because the Giro is, Tour aside, the biggest race there is.

But his wins combined are bigger than Conti's wins combined. I guess he meant that.

I rate a classic over a one week race any day, don't know your opinion about that though.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

I remember Joaquim saying he valued LBL higher than the Vuelta(calling it even higher than the WC, he's really in love with that event. He's overdoing it if you ask me ). And he thinks he can win both I suppose.

What does the Vuelta have to do with this? We're comparing to the Giro.