Playing God: Eufemiano Fuentes

[Briant_Gumble]

Not making a steadfast decision either way but it certainly seems like there is a lot of dodgy stuff going on, worth speculating on the possibility of foul play it is an Internet forum not a court of law.

 

[ElChingon]

Not making a steadfast decision either way but it certainly seems like there is a lot of dodgy stuff going on, worth speculating on the possibility of foul play it is an Internet forum not a court of law.

Although I agree with your the Mods seem to think differently and shut down conspiracy threads for some odd reason, maybe its the death angle but its still valid.

 

[Mrs John Murphy]

Although I agree with your the Mods seem to think differently and shut down conspiracy threads for some odd reason, maybe its the death angle but its still valid.

You need the conspiracy line.

 

[GJB123]

And the media is so believable...

Really, Alzheimer, the oldest trick in the book, what was the name of that New York maffioso again pretending to be a nut?

So, we have Alzheimer, we have suicide, we have sudden deaths and we have the Spanish press...

Where is the conspiracy? A lot of strange circumstances I would say.

Alzheimer's disease can be objectively diagnosed. So that is in a completely different ball park than acting nutty and being sent to the loony bin. Do you have the faintest idea about Alzheimer's? Having an Alzheimer's sufferer in the family I can well imagine that they postponed a decision on calling Batres as long as possible. It's only now that you can say how far the disease has progressed and whether it will be of any use to call someone who perhaps can barely remember his own name, let alone those of 150-200 athletes involved.

Remember that even Hamilton alludes to the fact that the guy handling hos blood bags was a bit senile. We are talking 2003, 2004 here.

 

[coinneach]

Alzheimer's disease can be objectively diagnosed. So that is in a completely different ball park than acting nutty and being sent to the loony bin. Do you have the faintest idea about Alzheimer's? Having an Alzheimer's sufferer in the family I can well imagine that they postponed a decision on calling Batres as long as possible. It's only now that you can say how far the disease has progressed and whether it will be of any use to call someone who perhaps can barely remember his own name, let alone those of 150-200 athletes involved.

Remember that even Hamilton alludes to the fact that the guy handling hos blood bags was a bit senile. We are talking 2003, 2004 here.

Agreed: might explain how some of the bags got mixed up.

However, I do remember a guy in a corruption trial getting out of jail early with Alzheimers, only to resume his business career afterwards:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/1723136.stm

Mr Saunders had his five-year sentence halved on appeal, and was released from prison after only 10 months when a medical report said he was suffering from the irreversible brain disease Alzheimer's.

Mr Saunders was unable to recall three numbers backwards, or to remember the name of the US president, a psychiatrist said.

Since his release, Mr Saunders has worked as a marketing consultant for the likes of Carphone Warehouse, and is said to consider the Alzheimer's diagnosis an error.

Just so happened he was well connected politically and rich

 

[sniper]

Alzheimer's disease can be objectively diagnosed. So that is in a completely different ball park than acting nutty and being sent to the loony bin. Do you have the faintest idea about Alzheimer's? Having an Alzheimer's sufferer in the family I can well imagine that they postponed a decision on calling Batres as long as possible. It's only now that you can say how far the disease has progressed and whether it will be of any use to call someone who perhaps can barely remember his own name, let alone those of 150-200 athletes involved.

Remember that even Hamilton alludes to the fact that the guy handling hos blood bags was a bit senile. We are talking 2003, 2004 here.

good points, and of course there may be nothing to it.
but recall that the judge calls him off only 4 days before start of the trial. Could be a coincidence, but a funny one. And this other guy dies one day before testimony. Perhaps nothing more than a fatal coincidence. Perhaps not.

 

[GJB123]

Agreed: might explain how some of the bags got mixed up.

However, I do remember a guy in a corruption trial getting out of jail early with Alzheimers, only to resume his business career afterwards:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/1723136.stm

Mr Saunders had his five-year sentence halved on appeal, and was released from prison after only 10 months when a medical report said he was suffering from the irreversible brain disease Alzheimer's.

Mr Saunders was unable to recall three numbers backwards, or to remember the name of the US president, a psychiatrist said.

Since his release, Mr Saunders has worked as a marketing consultant for the likes of Carphone Warehouse, and is said to consider the Alzheimer's diagnosis an error.

Just so happened he was well connected politically and rich

That was 2001. Nowadays they know quite well where to look in the brain to diagnose Alzheimer's. They put patients into a CT-scan-thingy and there is no mistake there. In earlier days they did rely on a more soft diagnosis (sorry if that is not the correct English term).

 

[GJB123]

good points, and of course there may be nothing to it.
but recall that the judge calls him off only 4 days before start of the trial. Could be a coincidence, but a funny one. And this other guy dies one day before testimony. Perhaps nothing more than a fatal coincidence. Perhaps not.

Personally I would have found it a lot more suspicious if they had called off his prosecution and/or appearing on the witness stand long before the trial. Like I said, with a progressive disease like Alzheimer's and sporadic moments of lucidity during the course of the disease I would have put off that decision as long as possible as prosecutor and/or judge.

 

[sniper]

Personally I would have found it a lot more suspicious if they had called off his prosecution and/or appearing on the witness stand long before the trial. Like I said, with a progressive disease like Alzheimer's and sporadic moments of lucidity during the course of the disease I would have put off that decision as long as possible as prosecutor and/or judge.

true.
but i still don't think it's fully far-fetched to speculate he (or his doctor) was blackmailed into pretending alzheimer, for instance.

And yes, there are maffia-like structures playing in the background of Puerto.
It's naive to think there aren't.

The heart-attack is by far the most suspicious case. But it retrospectively sheds suspicion on the other two cases.

All together, the two deaths (especially the heart-attack) and the alzheimer's case make for an awkward coincidence.

 

[GJB123]

true.
but i still don't think it's fully far-fetched to speculate he (or his doctor) was blackmailed into pretending alzheimer, for instance.

And yes, there are maffia-like structures playing in the background of Puerto.
It's naive to think there aren't.

The heart-attack is by far the most suspicious case. But it retrospectively sheds suspicion on the other two cases.

All together, the two deaths (especially the heart-attack) and the alzheimer's case make for an awkward coincidence.

Only for those who think living in Girona automatically meaas you are doping or who think that a training camp in Israel can corrupt a three men CAS panel.

 

[airstream]

GJB is for Puerto guys because they are talented, unlike Texas cyclists. Very strong argument.

 

[cineteq]

Manzano's hearing: Signed prescriptions by Fuentes could mean lots of trouble for him, especially those including cow and dog products.

 

[GJB123]

GJB is for Puerto guys because they are talented, unlike Texas cyclists. Very strong argument.

What the f*ck are you on about? Because I don't dump on the Spanish legal system or refuse to see conspiracies where there most likely are none, I am all of a sudden in favor of "Puerto guys". Please enlighten me how you came to that conclusion Sherlock! Or is it just one of you usual brain farts again?

If we are to have a discussion on possible conspiracies going on including actually people being killed off, I am a guy who at least tries to have that discussion based on facts rather than on supposition, gut feelings and assumptions. You might try it sometimes, it might be a whole new experience for you.

EDIT: and someone from Belarus complaining about corruption and the legal system in another country. That really does take the biscuit! I say Matthew 7:3-5.

 

[hrotha]

Manzano's hearing: Signed prescriptions by Fuentes could mean lots of trouble for him, especially those including cow and dog products.

But but but Fuentes had denied working with Manzano at all . This should be a slam-dunk case.

 

[cineteq]

But but but Fuentes had denied working with Manzano at all . This should be a slam-dunk case.

You really think so? I'm asking not b/c of evidence being so damning, but b/c of the Spanish system corruption.

 

[Bobito_B]

He is very loyal (as are Spanish cyclist as a whole, compared to others)
He COULD make a very good witness...to most people in Spain he is among the top 3 sporting idols (despite his doping ban). He really believes his own lies and can convince others.

This is not very true. Most people in Spain are either for Barca or for Madrid. In either case they have 11-15 sporting idols that rank ahead of Contador. Or one can take the intersection, which is the Spanish national side. Certainly Iniesta, Xavi, Casillas, etc. Then there are Rafal Nadal and Fernando Alonso.

And of course handballer Iñaki Undangarin (Duke of Palma) is a sort of national emblem right now, although for entirely different reasons ...

Also nobody in Spain believes Contador´s stories (we are not "tontos", just "corruptos"). Some people like him away, but that is a different matter.

 

[hrotha]

You really think so? I'm asking not b/c of evidence being so damning, but b/c of the Spanish system corruption.

Emphasis on "should"

 

[sniper]

Fuentes swapping lawyers (the day before?) yesterday could be a sign of inquietud.

By the way, Aguanell was 52.

 

[GJB123]

Fuentes swapping lawyers (the day before?) yesterday could be a sign of inquietud.

By the way, Aguanell was 52.

Now go figure! Have you ever heard of a 52-year old male getting a heart attack before ........ oh wait!?

 

[frenchfry]

This Puerto trial is an indication of how a T&R process would have virtually no chance of succeeding. Even in a courtroom situation with real judges, the tendancy is to lie or only to tell the partial truth when the blatant evidence makes it too ridiculous to lie. Lots of memory failure, not much openness.

 

[sniper]

Now go figure! Have you ever heard of a 52-year old male getting a heart attack before ........ oh wait!?

a 52 year old construction worker? yeah, sure.
a 52 year old doctor? not that often, to be honest.

 

[hrotha]

You guys could at least drop the conspiracy theories until later today. Manzano's speaking. Surely that's much more tangible and relevant right now?

 

[sniper]

You guys could at least drop the conspiracy theories until later today. Manzano's speaking. Surely that's much more tangible and relevant right now?

agreed.

and thanks for the excellent updates in this thread.

 

[GJB123]

a 52 year old construction worker? yeah, sure.
a 52 year old doctor? not that often, to be honest.

You have gotta be joking me. I even know of fighter pilots having heart attacks at 42, let alone 52. I have seen tax lawyers and accountants getting heart attacks around 50 and it is not as if they have a physically demanding job. Look up the statistics for most the most likely age group to get heart attacks and what professions they are in. If you have a more than average stressful job the %'s shoot up.

It is clear to me you are grasping at straws (yet again) and have no clue what you are talking about (yet again). If you are in hole fiirst thing you need to do in order to get out, is top digging.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

Posting conspiracy theories about people dieing based on pure speculation seems to be less than useful. If evidence arises then it should be discussed.

this is the clinic, it's 99% filled with speculations and lies