Question Pogacar vs Evenepoel - 200 KM FLAT ITT On Road Bikes

[Brullnux]

12 and 16 seconds?

0.5s/km in both. It's a decent gap – nothing special, but 2024 was the greatest form Pogacar (anyone?) has ever been and he'd trained a lot on the TT bike, probably more than Evenepoel given that Remco had other issues he was trying to fix.

 

[Ilmaestro99]

If pocagar and Masnada did a downhill time trial from top of passo di ganda to bottom, who would win?

 

[HashRouge]

Definitely Remco.

0.5s/km in both. It's a decent gap – nothing special, but 2024 was the greatest form Pogacar (anyone?) has ever been and he'd trained a lot on the TT bike, probably more than Evenepoel given that Remco had other issues he was trying to fix.

Source? We have no idea how much time either of them spent on the TT bike. We just have anecdotal evidence that Pogacar did more last year because of the 2023 TdF TT. But Remco was also preparing for the Olympics, so I doubt he neglected his TT bike.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Remco for sure. Pogacar is just a better climber and has better endurance so he can be fresher in the end.

 

[proffate]

Remco's huge advantage over Pogacar is his flexibility in the TT position and his aerodynamic advantage as a whole.
On a road bike those advantages are greatly reduced. After a certain time and for a longer 4-5 hours effort (like a 200 KM Flat TT) Pogacar's bigger aerobic engine will prevail.

If anything Remco seems to be more aerobic and Pog relies on his anaerobic ability, because what keeps happening is that Pog does an attack which opens a gap and then settles into the same pace as Remco who is chasing behind.

I really don't buy that Pog intentionally maintains a certain margin of victory because I think he'd crush Remco by more if he could, to deal a mental blow (see lombardia 24).

 

[Oldman]

Remco for sure. Pogacar is just a better climber and has better endurance so he can be fresher in the end.

and he wins with those qualities. Remco lacks them for now and can mortgage his current talents to attempt to gain what it takes to win the Tour. Meanwhile; TP could become a TT specialist and train accordingly. Not sure what could be more boring.
If both their lives depended on doing a 200km pursuit on parallel tracks; who do you think would win? (This question posed to the author of this thread, not Peyro).
By the way; the pointlessness of an absolutely flat race on roads that don't exist misses every point about racing.

 

[AmRacer]

and he wins with those qualities. Remco lacks them for now and can mortgage his current talents to attempt to gain what it takes to win the Tour. Meanwhile; TP could become a TT specialist and train accordingly. Not sure what could be more boring.
If both their lives depended on doing a 200km pursuit on parallel tracks; who do you think would win? (This question posed to the author of this thread, not Peyro).
By the way; the pointlessness of an absolutely flat race on roads that don't exist misses every point about racing.

The 90 mile straight? Don't know how flat it is though.

 

[Pippo_San]

This is so hypothetical it's not even funny.
Well at least they could try the Hour Record now that would be interesting.

 

[gunara]

Someone made similar thread about Cancellara and Cavendish in the previous epoch, can't say which one's weirder

 

[Salvarani]

I think Remco wins a pancake flat ITT. His personality/mentality seems better suited to this, outside of his aero position and physical ability.

I think Pog wins if they start together. Just them vs each other. Mano a mano on the road.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

If anything Remco seems to be more aerobic and Pog relies on his anaerobic ability, because what keeps happening is that Pog does an attack which opens a gap and then settles into the same pace as Remco who is chasing behind.

I really don't buy that Pog intentionally maintains a certain margin of victory because I think he'd crush Remco by more if he could, to deal a mental blow (see lombardia 24).

It really depends on terrain. Pogacar has the best aerobic engine when it comes to uphill riding, he can simply achieve higher speed uphill and create gaps. Things change on flat/rolling terrain where Remco (due to his aerodynamics) has the best engine. Yesterday was a mix of both terrains and Pogacar prevailed.

When it comes to anaerobic ability Pogacar is superior which makes him more punchy/explosive during attacks or sprints but it doesn't help much on a 20-minute climb (except initial few dozens of seconds during his attack). Then his aerobic power is crucial.

 

[tigabara]

I hope Remco win. If Remco can't win in flat road, where he can win?

 

[Pantani_lives]

More important question: Who would win a mud wrestling contest between Urska and Oumi?

 

[Krzysztof_O]

More important question: Who would win a mud wrestling contest between Urska and Oumi?

Urshka is too lightweight, she lacks anaerobic strength.

 

[kingjr]

Who would win in a trivial pursuit?

 

[Gargamel35]

That's a tough one. Flat road TT is usually Remcos speciality and both in peak condition i think Remco wins (probably by big margin). On a road bike Remcos advantage in aerodinamic position is no longer there and 200km is a long long way so we don't know who could do better anyway. Both went all out individually on a road bike and flat road and there wasn't much between them. Pog makes all the difference uphill and sustains it on the flat. So i would say on flat, they are too close to call it.

 

[Zoetemelk-fan]

Missing the Vino-option here in order to judge.

 

[Oldman]

If anything Remco seems to be more aerobic and Pog relies on his anaerobic ability, because what keeps happening is that Pog does an attack which opens a gap and then settles into the same pace as Remco who is chasing behind.

I really don't buy that Pog intentionally maintains a certain margin of victory because I think he'd crush Remco by more if he could, to deal a mental blow (see lombardia 24).

yeah, there is nothing to suggest that either rely on one performance attribute over the other. To be as good as they are you need to be superior at both. IMO a GT winner has to be able to ride on that edge of aerobic and anaerobic comfortably for 5 hours. Pogacar, Roglic, Vindegaard all have been capable examples of relatively relaxed ability. Problem for them and Remco; Pogacar is cruising while they're working. He's a better bike handler, tactician and emotionally stable rider than the rest. He doesn't seem to burn calories being tense or having to constantly recover position.
That's also why he may have no need to pile on minutes to a margin for "a mental blow." All of his competition has had their mind blown several times so that's not even a thing. It can't go on forever as he will be beaten.

 

[proffate]

That's also why he may have no need to pile on minutes to a margin for "a mental blow." All of his competition has had their mind blown several times so that's not even a thing. It can't go on forever as he will be beaten.

I have known a handful of dominant racers (amateur level) who went out of their way to seem unbeatable. It makes it much harder to win when you don't think it's possible.

Of course for a racer to do this, they have to be somewhat dominant to begin with, but it helps enhance and extend the reign. It helped Pog at ECs because group 2, save Remco, was immediately racing for second.

 

[SHAD0W93]

Evenepoel should win, the question is when he’ll start gesturing at Pogacar to pull through. I also wouldn’t be surprised if Pogacar voids on himself and attacks Evenepoel during his nature break.

 

[Oldman]

I have known a handful of dominant racers (amateur level) who went out of their way to seem unbeatable. It makes it much harder to win when you don't think it's possible.

Of course for a racer to do this, they have to be somewhat dominant to begin with, but it helps enhance and extend the reign. It helped Pog at ECs because group 2, save Remco, was immediately racing for second.

For sure it makes the pursuers reluctant to do the bulk of the work (Ayuso) for fear of dropping. But realistically a good Pro capable of getting and keeping a gap for a prolonged time also wants to win the next race. Completely wrecking yourself for the EU Championships may not be what Pog wants to do. He also didn't need to do it. At this point all he needs to do is drop the last guy on his wheel even if the climb has just a km to go. Everyone (including Remco) decided to wait for a group pursuit as a safer choice.