Poor Jan

[buckwheat]

can you please explain to me what "burnout" is? Particularly in the life of a rich retired bike pro? WTH is he burned out from? Eating donuts? Methinks this is a bunch of BS but I am willing to be pursuaded otherwise. If I was in his position the only burnout I would be doing would be in my Ferrari (no pun intended).

I know alot of blue collar people that live check to check, have pressures, etc. whose life issues seem much more extreme than JU's. Yet, I rarely see the burnout card played. Maybe when I learn more about it I can let them know they probably have it to and they can get some medication.

Burnout is probably lost hope.

The fact that he is rich and retired probably makes it all worse.

Boris Becker also spoke about being despondent shortly after his big wins. All the training and practice kept his mind off his mental state, then he won, and he found he didn't feel much better about himself, plus he then had down time to think a lot.

What he may be burned out from is that he reached the top and found that it didn't alleviate his problems or satisfy him. He's a big celebrity in Europe and could have his pick of the litter women wise, but that doesn't make him happier either.

A lot of blue collar people who are living check to check still have hope for a better day.

Most of the people on here ride bikes. Very few have made it to the top so they are still striving for improvement and that gives them a kind of joy, to improve. Many forumites also like going to the bike shop and getting a new bike or group and look forward to riding a bike they worked on or just purchased. Ironically, Jan, who was one of the best, probably doesn't derive much pleasure from a 2 or 3 hour spin. Most likely he's a prisoner of other people's expectations; hence a dissapointment for what could have been.

I myself just like getting out on the bike for some alone time. I like the feel of fitness and having some spring in my step.

It's kind of obvious that he doesn't have perspective, which also makes his problems worse. For normal everyday people, getting perspective isn't easy. Here's a guy who reaches heights very few people reach and everyone around him acts accordingly. How's he going to have perspective? Maybe the best way is to serve and be of use to others?

I really hope for the best for him, and hope he gets some relief from his anguish.

 

[buckwheat]

And that is fine and fair. I tend to think people need to have perspective when dealing with their problems. YMMV, obviously.

In my previous post I addressed the perspective thing a little.

You have to see that telling a mentally ill person to "get some perspective," doesn't really help them all that much.

It appears that maybe he has gotten some perspective as he's apparently addressing his problems.

 

[Cobblestoned]

Most of what I wrote was in Jan's autobiography. Its not a fairy tale book like Armstrong's. Its all real. There another story in there after the ecstasy incident. Jan is sitting in a restaurant with his then wife Gaby reaching to the bottom of his heart with about what a fool he's been. She peels of the label from the wine bottle they're drinking and she tells him to write on the back of the label that you never want to feel this way again. You never want to be at this point again in your life. Jan writes down the words and keeps the label. In the book there's a picture of the wine label with his words.

In 2003 there an issue of ProCycling magazine which attend the centenary dinner for the Tour de France. All the then alive Tour winners were there. Jan really was proud. In an interview in the same magazine in touched on some of the depression. He said that a lot of cyclists are loners. Spending 6 hours a day on a bike, on your own means a lot of thoughts go through your head. He said on one hand the cycling helped by sometimes it was counterproductive. He also spoke extremely highly of Pontoon. He has great respect for him.

a lot of this comes from that cyclists really don't want to dope. But they do and a lot of time they have. I don't know if I'm right but to my understanding is that Jan didn't want to dope. He really didn't but with the pressure. He had to go down that path as all cyclists do.

I've said it before the worst thing for any doped athlete is the realization that they don't know what they could have achieve or know what their talent level was. That's what kills them.

Alas Jan was very good and he knew it to. Probably the best cyclist ever but was beaten by a lot of highly charged riders who were chemically enhanced.

Edit: I was PM'd that Stefan now has opened a bike store in Berlin.

hey hog, you should read that book again.
But your wine-story is more romantic than the original story. Would make a women cry.

Anyway I think the problem were not the "highly" charged riders

("Armstrong just doped more/most" is the motto. And I think you shouldn´t use Jan as a tool to just make Lance worse. Its so obvious that some people do that. Please dont do that. the hog says it "through the flower", which is even more worse. )

it was just his knee. You can even feel the kneepain when you read this book (again).
Jan and Lance always respected each other.

Yes, when the bikeshop opened, Jan also showed up. All people were waiting for Jan. And when he arrived it was like the Dalai Lama was coming or something like that.
Ahhhhh DER JAN !

 

[Cobblestoned]

Burnout is probably lost hope.

The fact that he is rich and retired probably makes it all worse.

Boris Becker also spoke about being despondent shortly after his big wins. All the training and practice kept his mind off his mental state, then he won, and he found he didn't feel much better about himself, plus he then had down time to think a lot.

What he may be burned out from is that he reached the top and found that it didn't alleviate his problems or satisfy him. He's a big celebrity in Europe and could have his pick of the litter women wise, but that doesn't make him happier either.

A lot of blue collar people who are living check to check still have hope for a better day.

Most of the people on here ride bikes. Very few have made it to the top so they are still striving for improvement and that gives them a kind of joy, to improve. Many forumites also like going to the bike shop and getting a new bike or group and look forward to riding a bike they worked on or just purchased. Ironically, Jan, who was one of the best, probably doesn't derive much pleasure from a 2 or 3 hour spin. Most likely he's a prisoner of other people's expectations; hence a dissapointment for what could have been.

I myself just like getting out on the bike for some alone time. I like the feel of fitness and having some spring in my step.

It's kind of obvious that he doesn't have perspective, which also makes his problems worse. For normal everyday people, getting perspective isn't easy. Here's a guy who reaches heights very few people reach and everyone around him acts accordingly. How's he going to have perspective? Maybe the best way is to serve and be of use to others?

I really hope for the best for him, and hope he gets some relief from his anguish.

Sven Hannawald also had the "burn out" and wrote something about/to Ulle.
http://www.bild.de/BILD/sport/mehr-...-die-burn-out-erkrankung-bei-jan-ullrich.html

Roberto Enke, who should actually been Germanys goalkeeper in the soccerteam, had heavy depression and was on therapy very long since 2003 (but public didn´t know, only his wife and his parents) but than chose to end his life last autumn. He also lost his kid some years ago.
Since that, and other people "outed", these kind of illnesses are widely accepted.

When some of the first cases came out, it was a little bit ridiculed. Kind like that:
"Uh, he doesn´t know how to blow his money and is depressed now."

 

[thehog]

hey hog, you should read that book again.
But your wine-story is more romantic than the original story. Would make a women cry.

Anyway I think the problem were not the "highly" charged riders

("Armstrong just doped more/most" is the motto. And I think you shouldn´t use Jan as a tool to just make Lance worse. Its so obvious that some people do that. Please dont do that. the hog says it "through the flower", which is even more worse. )

it was just his knee. You can even feel the kneepain when you read this book (again).
Jan and Lance always respected each other.

Yes, when the bikeshop opened, Jan also showed up. All people were waiting for Jan. And when he arrived it was like the Dalai Lama was coming or something like that.
Ahhhhh DER JAN !

It was a romantic time for me! Young man studying German in Germany. Learned nothing. Drank every night kicking off with a stamtisch! (spelling?). I do remember arriving in Munich an one of the first things I did was run down to marienplatz (spelling again!!) and bought Jan's book. Most of it was later translated by a lovely young schmetterling I met at the atomic cafe - she never smiled when she danced.

Later we'd go for coffee she'd translate and I'd stare into her eyes and explained the finer details of der radsport. Memories. Loved every moment of it. Where is she now?

Which part of Germany are you from?

 

[Cobblestoned]

It was a romantic time for me! Young man studying German in Germany. Learned nothing. Drank every night kicking off with a stamtisch! (spelling?). I do remember arriving in Munich an one of the first things I did was run down to marienplatz (spelling again!!) and bought Jan's book. Most of it was later translated by a lovely young schmetterling I met at the atomic cafe - she never smiled when she danced.

Later we'd go for coffee she'd translate and I'd stare into her eyes and explained the finer details of der radsport. Memories. Loved every moment of it. Where is she now?

Which part of Germany are you from?

Even when you think you learn nothing, you learn some.
Uh, what a romantic guy !
You should have written this book.
It just was the Team Telekom Pressofficer , who asked Jan for an autograph while drinking a bottle of
good wine (1982 Chateau Haut Brion), after they "escaped" from Germany to Canada. Gaby had gone to bed already.

Everthing spelled correct, except of "Stammtisch".
I live at the very,very west - right next to my Dutch and Belgian friends.

 

[thehog]

Even when you think you learn nothing, you learn some.
Uh, what a romantic guy !
You should have written this book.
It just was the Team Telekom Pressofficer , who asked Jan for an autograph while drinking a bottle of
good wine (1982 Chateau Haut Brion), after they "escaped" from Germany to Canada. Gaby had gone to bed already.

Everthing spelled correct, except of "Stammtisch".
I live at the very,very west - right next to my Dutch and Belgian friends.

You have the picture! Thank-you. I prefer the Gaby story! Even thou its now proved to be only in my head!

One thing I do remember was at the 97 Tour that Jan won. I've forgotten the stage but Ullrich refused to attack Riis who was having a hard time of it. Jan riding up the front on a mountain stage drops to the back. He goes to the team car and asks if he can attack. He gets the green light. He then casually rides back to the front and then takes off. I'm fairly sure if memory serves correct he didn't even get out of the saddle. Respect all around.


One other useless fact about Munich I remember was Ullrich took he his tab of x at Kunst Park Ost (art park) on the outskirts of Munich. I've been there. About 50 nightclubs built one very muddy piece of dirt.

 

[Neworld]

Its possible that Ulle is depressed because of the loss of control he has in his life. He may well want to tell the truth but is worried about the legal and financial ramifications of doing so right now.

Maybe he's working on a book, for release in a couple of years but it can't come soon enough for him.

So, he can't move on, cannot control his destiny and feel that release telling the truth would provide for him. Thus, no control just a further days turning to months of dred and negative self-reflection. Who'd want to go for a 3 hour bike ride with all that spinning around in one's head.

The truth will set him free...eventually. Hang on Ulle.

NW

 

[ChrisE]

Reading thru all this drivel on this thread I think most of you need as much help as he allegedly needs. Good luck.

 

[joe_papp]

Let's Drop the Fake Moral Outrage

tyler hamilton was depressed which actually led him to accidently dope...if you want to believe that.

ullrich is tired of the half-hearted attempts to proclaim his innocence and doesn't want to come clean. he's not fighting it anymore. believe what you want to believe. actually this is pretty consistent with his personality.

erader

I'm all for clean sport b/c I've come to understand from first-hand experience how destructive doping can be...but: are you or is anybody else REALLY surprised that guys like Jan Ullrich and Tyler Hamilton, both of whom were Olympic gold medalists, are reticent and inclined not to publicly admit their doping, even when it's apparently obvious to even the casual fan?

I mean, seriously - how upset or annoyed or frustrated or otherwise negatively impacted can you be by their totally-predictable decisions to deny having doped, or at least refuse to address affirmatively those accusations (even if in the long-run they might be better off b/c of the potential lifting of the mental burden of living lives based on lies)?

The likely outcome of such admissions would be total financial ruin, years of litigation, an exponential increase in harassment and persecution by the media and the loss of all public support, and in some cases possible criminal liability.

It's disingenuous for anyone to act surprised or offended or to be condescending or dismissive b/c Ulle won't admit to allegedly having been a Fuentes client - just like Hamilton won't admit to having allegedly blood doped during the Olympics and so holds onto his Gold Medal.

I have little doubt that the same people who urge Ullrich to come clean for his own well-being and for the long-term health of the sport are the same people who would jump at the chance to crucify the guy after he would make such an admission!

I'm sorry, but unless Ullrich loses "everything" and reaches the level at which Floyd was bobbing when he decided to engage the UCI behind-the-scenes to challenge them for their complicity in doping, it's totally not going to happen that he admits to anything while he still faces civil or criminal liability, and it doesn't take a rocket scientist or a PhD to realize that.

I don't mean to single-out erader and accuse him of this (I just picked his post to follow-up on w/ my own comments), but can we drop the fake moral outrage and admit that we can, by and large, empathize with former-athletes like Hamilton and Ullrich who are widely suspected of having doped, and who have been sanctioned to one degree or another for doping infractions, but steadfastly refuse to acknowledge their alleged doping? And that we realize that it's unlikely that they would step-up and make such admissions prior to the expiration of any statutes of limitations, or their own arrival at rock-bottom, where they would finally have nothing that they'd consider valuable left to lose?

 

[Father Jack]

I just want to comment on the two idiots who would "deal with their mental health issues in private" - surely that is the whole point - people like Jan cannot deal with anything in private, something would be leaked and the press would jump on it, hence him telling it as it is rather than risk tabloid speculation.

 

[ChrisE]

I just want to comment on the two idiots who would "deal with their mental health issues in private" - surely that is the whole point - people like Jan cannot deal with anything in private, something would be leaked and the press would jump on it, hence him telling it as it is rather than risk tabloid speculation.

Ahhh, so it's the old preemptive tabloid strike. Yes, JU has always put it out there for the public consumption.

Will all celebrities be releasing all of their medical records to the press to preempt any potential leaking of information to tabloids? Thanks.

 

[Anonymous]

Well yes, and if you go back far enough in time someone will suggest evil spirits are to blame for Ullrich's condition. That's the thing with science, it goes forward.

i got told by some old fart after 6 months "youve had stress now for 6 months, you should be over it, i think you should just go back to work and you will probably be better soon", work on the other hand wouldnt have me back cos they said i was mental

anyway, total divergance

 

[131313]

The likely outcome of such admissions would be total financial ruin, years of litigation, an exponential increase in harassment and persecution by the media and the loss of all public support, and in some cases possible criminal liability.

I think you're way over-stating the risks. Look at Bjarne Riis. Things seemed to work out just fine for him?

Sure, he doesn't have an Olympic gold, but seriously, what does that really mean? As a big name director, Riis certainly had more to potentially lose than either of those guys. Remember, this is the guy suing (or threatening to sue) Danish newspapers for suggesting that he was doping?

It's disingenuous for anyone to act surprised or offended or to be condescending or dismissive b/c Ulle won't admit to allegedly having been a Fuentes client - just like Hamilton won't admit to having allegedly blood doped during the Olympics and so holds onto his Gold Medal.

I have little doubt that the same people who urge Ullrich to come clean for his own well-being and for the long-term health of the sport are the same people who would jump at the chance to crucify the guy after he would make such an admission!

I seriously, seriously doubt that. Just look at Flandis. His most ardent critics are the guys coming now to his defense. Of course, he has a brand new set of critics, but that's a different story...

Ultimately, I really don't think most people even care about Ulrich or Hamilton's past doping. Everyone knows they were dirty, and assume they've been doping their entire career. At this point, I agree with the idea that they're just doing themselves a disservice, more than hurting anyone else. Anyone who follows the sport knows what's up, but they're both still living the lie. I hate to be this crass, but who do you think is happier now, Jerome Chiotti or Christophe Dupouey? There's obviously a lot involved in Dupouey's situation, but living your life as a fraud can't be all that healthy for one's mental well-being. Ultimately, Ullrich would do himself a huge favor by just getting it over with and coming clean. The relief would be more than worth some stupid medal.

 

[Cobblestones]

I think you're way over-stating the risks. Look at Bjarne Riis. Things seemed to work out just fine for him?

Sure, he doesn't have an Olympic gold, but seriously, what does that really mean? As a big name director, Riis certainly had more to potentially lose than either of those guys. Remember, this is the guy suing (or threatening to sue) Danish newspapers for suggesting that he was doping?

I seriously, seriously doubt that. Just look at Flandis. His most ardent critics are the guys coming now to his defense. Of course, he has a brand new set of critics, but that's a different story...

Ultimately, I really don't think most people even care about Ulrich or Hamilton's past doping. Everyone knows they were dirty, and assume they've been doping their entire career. At this point, I agree with the idea that they're just doing themselves a disservice, more than hurting anyone else. Anyone who follows the sport knows what's up, but they're both still living the lie. I hate to be this crass, but who do you think is happier now, Jerome Chiotti or Christophe Dupouey? There's obviously a lot involved in Dupouey's situation, but living your life as a fraud can't be all that healthy for one's mental well-being. Ultimately, Ullrich would do himself a huge favor by just getting it over with and coming clean. The relief would be more than worth some stupid medal.

I tend to agree with that. Ullrich is not capitalizing on his gold medal anyway. He has a TdF win for crying out loud, which is now probably outside of reproach. Riis's win was the year before Ullrich's win, and Riis has admitted years ago, so Ullrich could probably just as well.

I don't know how much money Ullrich is still earning from cycling. Is he selling any brands of bikes, equipment, clothes or other stuff? I'm not aware of anything major. Also, he's not involved with any team, is he? Is he selling training concepts or similar like Hamilton?

With all of his endorsements from his active time, he should be pretty much set for life. Whatever income he might still derive from cycling is probably small change compared to his heydays. And who says that will necessarily go away when he confesses. I can't see financial ruin coming from that angle.

Media harassment? Ullrich has been off the radar for several years. A confession would bring him back for a while, but after one or two weeks, I think interest will die down. Also, it wouldn't really be much of a surprise for most who give a cr@p about cycling.

I don't know about lawsuits. Is there really such a big thread? What makes Joe Papp think so?

 

[buckwheat]

Reading thru all this drivel on this thread I think most of you need as much help as he allegedly needs. Good luck.

Mr Perspective!

 

[Cobblestoned]

I tend to agree with that. Ullrich is not capitalizing on his gold medal anyway. He has a TdF win for crying out loud, which is now probably outside of reproach. Riis's win was the year before Ullrich's win, and Riis has admitted years ago, so Ullrich could probably just as well.

I don't know how much money Ullrich is still earning from cycling. Is he selling any brands of bikes, equipment, clothes or other stuff? I'm not aware of anything major. Also, he's not involved with any team, is he? Is he selling training concepts or similar like Hamilton?

With all of his endorsements from his active time, he should be pretty much set for life. Whatever income he might still derive from cycling is probably small change compared to his heydays. And who says that will necessarily go away when he confesses. I can't see financial ruin coming from that angle.

Media harassment? Ullrich has been off the radar for several years. A confession would bring him back for a while, but after one or two weeks, I think interest will die down. Also, it wouldn't really be much of a surprise for most who give a cr@p about cycling.

I don't know about lawsuits. Is there really such a big thread? What makes Joe Papp think so?

No, he wasn´t. And this is one of the problems.
He has been hunted by media and is on (sporting)court for four years now. Different lawsuits and storys that came out frequently.
And every time when Ullrich startet something with companys, you could count down 3, 2, 1 ..... till new storys or judgements came out.
A little bit like "ordered".

Media is sniping his house and make pictures of him while he is bringing out the trash, to make a story of it, for example.

Or things like that:
"Can I help you ? If you want something, just ring my bell"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zR0x4Hsi6rU

 

[Digger]

No, he wasn´t. And this is one of the problems.
He has been hunted by media and is on (sporting)court for four years now. Different lawsuits and storys that came out frequently.
And every time when Ullrich startet something with companys, you could count down 3, 2, 1 ..... till new storys or judgements came out.
A little bit like "ordered".

Media is sniping his house and make pictures of him while he is bringing out the trash, to make a story of it, for example.

Or things like that:
"Can I help you ? If you want something, just ring my bell"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zR0x4Hsi6rU

Cobble could you please give me a rough summary of what was said between the reporter and Jan?

 

[Kender]

I tend to agree with that. Ullrich is not capitalizing on his gold medal anyway. He has a TdF win for crying out loud, which is now probably outside of reproach. Riis's win was the year before Ullrich's win, and Riis has admitted years ago, so Ullrich could probably just as well.

I don't know how much money Ullrich is still earning from cycling. Is he selling any brands of bikes, equipment, clothes or other stuff? I'm not aware of anything major. Also, he's not involved with any team, is he? Is he selling training concepts or similar like Hamilton?

With all of his endorsements from his active time, he should be pretty much set for life. Whatever income he might still derive from cycling is probably small change compared to his heydays. And who says that will necessarily go away when he confesses. I can't see financial ruin coming from that angle.

Media harassment? Ullrich has been off the radar for several years. A confession would bring him back for a while, but after one or two weeks, I think interest will die down. Also, it wouldn't really be much of a surprise for most who give a cr@p about cycling.

I don't know about lawsuits. Is there really such a big thread? What makes Joe Papp think so?

Riis only confessed after he had nothing to lose. he was outside the 8 year limit. There was nothing they could do to him to make him leave the sport.

Jan is still in court so he has everything still to lose outside of cycling

Jan organises and rides in charity bike events which would probably also be effected

 

[hrotha]

Riis only confessed after he had nothing to lose. he was outside the 8 year limit. There was nothing they could do to him to make him leave the sport.

Jan is still in court so he has everything still to lose outside of cycling

Jan organises and rides in charity bike events which would probably also be effected

ASO could have banned him from attending the TdF, and it could have snowballed from there until he saw himself Manolo Saiz'd.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

No, he wasn´t. And this is one of the problems.
He has been hunted by media and is on (sporting)court for four years now. Different lawsuits and storys that came out frequently.
And every time when Ullrich startet something with companys, you could count down 3, 2, 1 ..... till new storys or judgements came out.
A little bit like "ordered".

Media is sniping his house and make pictures of him while he is bringing out the trash, to make a story of it, for example.

Or things like that:
"Can I help you ? If you want something, just ring my bell"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zR0x4Hsi6rU

... and the leader of this witch hunt is Werner Franke. It´s sad that one person is allowed to be "killed" in the media. Even if guilty of doping, that is far too much. Anyway, this week i´ll make a Strafanzeige vs. Franke (§ § 164, 185 and 186 StGB).

 

[joe_papp]

Vitriol

... and the leader of this witch hunt is Werner Franke. It´s sad that one person is allowed to be "killed" in the media. Even if guilty of doping, that is far too much. Anyway, this week i´ll make a Strafanzeige vs. Franke (§ § 164, 185 and 186 StGB).

+1

As was recently told to me by an astute observer of all things cycling:

"It does strike me as strange that we tend to treat dopers more harshly than the people who "cheated" on Wall Street to create the GFC or "cheated" in respect to basic safety procedures at BP.

Society seems to accept the validity of using slightly dubious means to establish an advantage in many areas of life, but to be very harsh in its analysis of others.

While I am 100% against doping, we have to create a pathway forward from here and that is going to require us to forgive some people and that is going to really hard for a lot people. I do wonder how many of our own lives and decisions would hold up to real scrutiny. I am not saying that people should not have to take responsibility for their actions, but it does seem to be pretty easy to throw stones when you are not able to be scrutinized in return."

Vitriol is a good word to learn the definition of, for those who are interested in charting the internet-going public's reaction to the return of cyclists who've served doping bans.

 

[Polish]

for those who are interested in charting the internet-going public's reaction to the return of cyclists who've served doping bans.

Not sure about the "internet-going public's reaction", but the General Public in the USA is barely even aware or totally unaware of "the return of cyclists who've served doping bans". Who cares. Yawn.

Bicyclist are obstacles in the road while driving to much of the General Public.
For some, just as soon run em over if not for the paperwork involved afterwards lol.

 

[Cobblestones]

No, he wasn´t. And this is one of the problems.
He has been hunted by media and is on (sporting)court for four years now. Different lawsuits and storys that came out frequently.
And every time when Ullrich startet something with companys, you could count down 3, 2, 1 ..... till new storys or judgements came out.
A little bit like "ordered".

Media is sniping his house and make pictures of him while he is bringing out the trash, to make a story of it, for example.

Or things like that:
"Can I help you ? If you want something, just ring my bell"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zR0x4Hsi6rU

Oh really?

I suggest the following exercise. Go to the main site of Cyclingnews, type in 'Ullrich' as search term and check the first 200 results. Out of those there's 2 from 2010 (one of them the 'burnout' story) and two from 2009 (one of them about Ullrich possibly writing a book). So, 2% of 200 news articles are from the last two years! Half of them triggered by Ullrich himself, saying stuff to the press. The other half is about the progress/end of different types of legal proceedings.

2%. I call that 'off the radar'. You may call it 'in the limelight'. YMMV

 

[Cobblestones]

Riis only confessed after he had nothing to lose. he was outside the 8 year limit. There was nothing they could do to him to make him leave the sport.

Jan is still in court so he has everything still to lose outside of cycling

Jan organises and rides in charity bike events which would probably also be effected

Ullrich's TdF win is way past the 8 year limit. I understand that he clams up about OP which is more recent. But his most important career result is now 13 years back in time. The least he could do is a 'Zabel'.

I said in my first post in this thread that I didn't know about his court cases, because I'm not too terribly interested. But isn't most of his legal trouble with Franke because Ullrich denied doping? If so, wouldn't all this stuff go away when he confesses? What legal battles does he still have to fight anyway? Do you know the specifics?