Poor Jan

[hrotha]

I personally think alot of times psychological evaluations are a bunch of BS. People feeling sorry for themselves.

I look forward to discussion about what a rich retired bike racer is burned out from.

What the hell do you know about his life?

 

[Digger]

I personally think alot of times psychological evaluations are a bunch of BS. People feeling sorry for themselves.

I look forward to discussion about what a rich retired bike racer is burned out from.

Okay back to Jan only - are you saying so that someone who is well off and has a family, etc etc, has no right to be depressed? Cos I hate to burst your bubble but dpression is non-discriminate and can strike anyone.

 

[Barrus]

I personally think alot of times psychological evaluations are a bunch of BS. People feeling sorry for themselves.

I look forward to discussion about what a rich retired bike racer is burned out from.

I think due to his doping past, the hunt that went on against him in the German media and the problems of getting back into normal live, a combination of this all, and perhaps other factors can turn out to be quite stressful

 

[ChrisE]

What the hell do you know about his life?

WTH do people like foxxybrown know about how he really is as a person? You didn't reply to him that way after his evaluation.

Isn't this what we do around here? Speculate without knowing WTH we are talking about? By you defending this "burnout" PR stunt you are doing the same thing.

What I do know is where I come from people have real issues. IMO, JU would appear to have it better than most of the people I know. IMO this is BS, as a result of somebody feeling sorry for themselves and/or using it as a PR stunt.

There is no reason to publicize it like it has been done. IF I was suffering from some issue I would deal with it in private. What is the reason to display it for the world? I wonder.

YMMV.

 

[hrotha]

WTH do people like foxxybrown know about how he really is as a person? You didn't reply to him that way after his evaluation.

Isn't this what we do around here? Speculate without knowing WTH we are talking about? By you defending this "burnout" PR stunt you are doing the same thing.

What I do know is where I come from people have real issues. IMO, JU would appear to have it better than most of the people I know. IMO this is BS, as a result of somebody feeling sorry for themselves and/or using it as a PR stunt.

There is no reason to publicize it like it has been done. IF I was suffering from some issue I would deal with it in private. What is the reason to display it for the world? I wonder.

YMMV.

I was attacking your notion that a well-off ex-pro can't have issues rather than Jan's issues in particular. By that logic, you can't have issues unless you're Somali or something. Psychological problems are funny like that - you don't think you have any reason to feel bad, and yet, there you are. No doubt many people use it as a crutch, but it doesn't mean everybody does.

I agree I would deal with it in private rather than publicize it, but that doesn't mean it isn't real. Different people deal with stuff in different ways. Also, he has a website and is apparently about to lie low for a while, basically disappearing in a puff. It's not that strange that he feels telling everyone who's following him that he won't be available is the right thing to do.

 

[ChrisE]

I think due to his doping past, the hunt that went on against him in the German media and the problems of getting back into normal live, a combination of this all, and perhaps other factors can turn out to be quite stressful

OK, let's talk about this. BTW, I was not belittling your experience with people with issues. I know these things are real, but I also think they get used as a crutch. I think that is the case here.

I can see why this could be stressful; that is not my issue. "Little people" (BP talk) not knowing if they can pay their house note next month is stressful as well. Life is stressful.

But the only time JU personally puts himself in public display is when he chooses to. He could live a quiet life. He was in a sport where he chose to dope, else he could have done something else. He chose to be part of Omerta. And, we don't know how active he was in that Omerta either. Regardless of how nice of a guy we think he is.

Time heals all wounds. We all make choices we have to deal with and move on. And publicly displaying this "diagnosis" is a choice as well. Why now? Seems like 2006 would have been a better time.

JU probably has enough money to say to hell with it all and relax. He chose to inject himself out into the public after years of allegedly being hounded by the mean German press and authorities.

I see this as a "look how mean they are being to me, now look how screwed up I am" card to gain public sympathy after choices he made early in life. YMMV.

 

[ChrisE]

I was attacking your notion that a well-off ex-pro can't have issues rather than Jan's issues in particular. By that logic, you can't have issues unless you're Somali or something. Psychological problems are funny like that - you don't think you have any reason to feel bad, and yet, there you are. No doubt many people use it as a crutch, but it doesn't mean everybody does.

I agree I would deal with it in private rather than publicize it, but that doesn't mean it isn't real. Different people deal with stuff in different ways. Also, he has a website and is apparently about to lie low for a while, basically disappearing in a puff. It's not that strange that he feels telling everyone who's following him that he won't be available is the right thing to do.

Maybe it is real, but he is using it as PR leverage IMO. He doesn't have to tell anybody anything. Get on with your life, deal with whatever shyt ails you, and live.

Yes, from where I am sitting on the surface this is BS and it is calculated. Maybe he has issues, but I doubt it. If he does have issues I have much less sympathy than people with "real" issues on my personal issue ranking.

 

[mr. tibbs]

Maybe it is real, but he is using it as PR leverage IMO. He doesn't have to tell anybody anything. Get on with your life, deal with whatever shyt ails you, and live.

Yes, from where I am sitting on the surface this is BS and it is calculated. Maybe he has issues, but I doubt it. If he does have issues I have much less sympathy than people with "real" issues on my personal issue ranking.

Truth. Having agreed with that, and agreeing that there is a PR element in this disclosure, I want to wish Jan all the best.

He's probably the most "human" cyclist I've gotten to watch in the peloton, and I've always been able to relate to his struggles with weight, motivation, confidence, etc.

And I would read the book.

 

[ChrisE]

Truth. Having agreed with that, and agreeing that there is a PR element in this disclosure, I want to wish Jan all the best.

He's probably the most "human" cyclist I've gotten to watch in the peloton, and I've always been able to relate to his struggles with weight, motivation, confidence, etc.

And I would read the book.

Yes, he had issues when he was cycling. Not sure about the confidence thing, but motivation seemed to be an issue.

I wonder how "burned out" JU would be if he hadn't gotten caught? Think he would've been torn up about doping then?

 

[Polish]

it's a fair cop...

Like the vast majority on this forum, I too am a BIG Jan Fanboy (or girl).

It made me feel real bad back when Jan was the victim of that WITCH HUNT in his home Country. It was despicable really He is still hounded to this day

My diagnosis is that Jan is suffering a form of PTSS.
Flashbacks. Cold Sweats. Nightmares. Burnout.

 

[ChrisE]

Like the vast majority on this forum, I too am a BIG Jan Fanboy (or girl).

It made me feel real bad back when Jan was the victim of that WITCH HUNT in his home Country. It was despicable really He is still hounded to this day

My diagnosis is that Jan is suffering a form of PTSS.
Flashbacks. Cold Sweats. Nightmares. Burnout.

Polish, glad you chimed in. Do you see other cyclists suffering from various psychological issues in the future due to these witch hunts?

Will CN forums have a thread called "Poor XXXXX XXXXXXXXX" when this hypothetical ex-pro suffers from the same thing?

 

[Polish]

Polish, glad you chimed in. Do you see other cyclists suffering from various psychological issues in the future due to these witch hunts?

Will CN forums have a thread called "Poor XXXXX XXXXXXXXX" when this hypothetical ex-pro suffers from the same thing?

ix-nay on the ance-lay..

But speaking hypothetically, some witch hunts smolder for years and years, causing long term damage. Jan for example.

Other witch hunts blow over relatively quickly and end up toughening the victim, like heat hardens steel. Not mentioning any names nudge nudge

 

[thehog]

A lot of the stress comes his childhood and along with the subsequent persecution of Germans from the former East. Jan was from a broken home. His father was an alcoholic and regularly beat him and Stefan. When Jan and Stefan both showed talent in athletic events they were sent to East German sports camps for the young. Both the boys promised to save their mother. Stefan went on to be an 800 meter runner and competed at the world junior titles. After that he lost his way and hit the bottle. Jan became a cyclist. Probably the best cyclist ever the world has seen. You tube he's early stuff. He'd win a sprint by staying in the saddle! Everyone knows the rest of the story but Jan did save his mother in 1997 bought her a new house and took care of her. He got Stefan a job on T-Mobile as a mechanic. At his retirement press conference Mum and Stefan were up front providing support. He was well known in the peloton and as Joe Papp stated on another thread would always stop for a chat or a photograph. I met him once in London. Just a hello nice meet you event. There he was. Bored of chatting to the media instead he was hanging with a bunch of young riders giving them advice. Such a warm personality. After Puerto the persecution kicked in. West Germans still have a big problem with Germans from the East. They went after him and lot of it was because he was East German. A lot of former east german athletes are either dead, in mental disarray or financial ruin. The west german government wasn't going to take care of them. A lot of women from that system think they're men but that's another story. Even in his port retirement business dealings life is being made hard for him.

All in all no wonder the guy is burnout. Its been one long fight since he was a boy.

 

[ChrisE]

ix-nay on the ance-lay..

But speaking hypothetically, some witch hunts smolder for years and years, causing long term damage. Jan for example.

Other witch hunts blow over relatively quickly and end up toughening the victim, like heat hardens steel. Not mentioning any names nudge nudge

It is how you apply the heat, and for the reason. Heat treating actually is done to bring the steel back to it's base elastic properties, and must be done in certain ways. Heat applied incorrectly or not by design can cause the steel to be brittle after cooling, resulting in cracks when pressure is applied. "Hardness" is not always a good thing in a material that is designed to perform elastically.

So, these quick witch hunt uncontrolled heat bursts could cause a catostrophic cracking failure when greater pressure is applied. As I said, I look forward to sympathy threads when this occurs.

 

[smoking roach]

"It's better to burn out, than to fade away"

 

[erader]

Polish, glad you chimed in. Do you see other cyclists suffering from various psychological issues in the future due to these witch hunts?
Will CN forums have a thread called "Poor XXXXX XXXXXXXXX" when this hypothetical ex-pro suffers from the same thing?

tyler hamilton was depressed which actually led him to accidently dope...if you want to believe that.

ullrich is tired of the half-hearted attempts to proclaim his innocence and doesn't want to come clean. he's not fighting it anymore. believe what you want to believe. actually this is pretty consistent with his personality.

erader

 

[Digger]

A lot of the stress comes his childhood and along with the subsequent persecution of Germans from the former East. Jan was from a broken home. His father was an alcoholic and regularly beat him and Stefan. When Jan and Stefan both showed talent in athletic events they were sent to East German sports camps for the young. Both the boys promised to save their mother. Stefan went on to be an 800 meter runner and competed at the world junior titles. After that he lost his way and hit the bottle. Jan became a cyclist. Probably the best cyclist ever the world has seen. You tube he's early stuff. He'd win a sprint by staying in the saddle! Everyone knows the rest of the story but Jan did save his mother in 1997 bought her a new house and took care of her. He got Stefan a job on T-Mobile as a mechanic. At his retirement press conference Mum and Stefan were up front providing support. He was well known in the peloton and as Joe Papp stated on another thread would always stop for a chat or a photograph. I met him once in London. Just a hello nice meet you event. There he was. Bored of chatting to the media instead he was hanging with a bunch of young riders giving them advice. Such a warm personality. After Puerto the persecution kicked in. West Germans still have a big problem with Germans from the East. They went after him and lot of it was because he was East German. A lot of former east german athletes are either dead, in mental disarray or financial ruin. The west german government wasn't going to take care of them. A lot of women from that system think they're men but that's another story. Even in his port retirement business dealings life is being made hard for him.

All in all no wonder the guy is burnout. Its been one long fight since he was a boy.

Thanks Hog. The guy is poetry in motion on a TT bike. That's not dope - that's class. The extracts I've read from his autobiography, there seems to be an awful lot of self loathing. He gives himself an awful hard time. And this thing about him being lazy etc. Do people think you can have his palmares by not training? I've also heard that he is like a big child and the hangers on have f***ed him up over the years. Because decisions were always made for him in the East German system, he struggled when 'independence' and freedom came. And I would echo what has been said about the mess these former East German athletes are now in - Faust's Gold - a shocking story. It is like a sci-fi book.
Dieter Baumann seems to have gotten off very easily in Germany, and again this would bacj up what Hog is saying about East West divide.

 

[erader]

Thanks Hog. The guy is poetry in motion on a TT bike. That's not dope - that's class. The extracts I've read from his autobiography, there seems to be an awful lot of self loathing. He gives himself an awful hard time. And this thing about him being lazy etc. Do people think you can have his palmares by not training? I've also heard that he is like a big child and the hangers on have f***ed him up over the years. Because decisions were always made for him in the East German system, he struggled when 'independence' and freedom came. And I would echo what has been said about the mess these former East German athletes are now in - Faust's Gold - a shocking story. It is like a sci-fi book.
Dieter Baumann seems to have gotten off very easily in Germany, and again this would bacj up what Hog is saying about East West divide.

ullrich should have been a multiple tour winner. he had that much talent.

erader

 

[Polish]

ullrich should have been a multiple tour winner. he had that much talent.

erader

Coulda Woulda Shoulda

Jan could have won in 2003 if he ATTACKED when Lance fell instead of waiting.

Jan should have won in 1999 but he hurt his knee.

Jan would have won in 2006 but he was banned.

 

[Darryl Webster]

I personally think alot of times psychological evaluations are a bunch of BS. People feeling sorry for themselves.

I look forward to discussion about what a rich retired bike racer is burned out from.

Lovely compassionate responce there. I myself might class my self as feeling "sorry for myself" when I twice overdosed on presciption tablets in 2001 and arrived at emergancy unconcious.
"Feeling sorry for yourself" might not be attractive and it`s certainly not an "easy option"...cus aint an option at all .. but theres a lot of dead people to prove it aint somat to rediculed.
Wealth has little to do with it....as celebrity suicides and depression stories abound....in your view does that wealth preclude them compassion?
Hope you never get realy down Chris....cus if ya dont ya very lucky.

 

[python]

Lovely compassionate responce there. I myself might class my self as feeling "sorry for myself" when I twice overdosed on presciption tablets in 2001 and arrived at emergancy unconcious.
"Feeling sorry for yourself" might not be attractive and it`s certainly not an "easy option"...cus aint an option at all .. but theres a lot of dead people to prove it aint somat to rediculed.
Wealth has little to do with it....as celebrity suicides and depression stories abound....in your view does that wealth preclude them compassion?
Hope you never get realy down Chris....cus if ya dont ya very lucky.

darryl, great response ! dont waste much time on him, but do check his posting and moderating history. pls do.

yesterday, when challenged on the facts of lemod's subpoena, he whined about being 'ad hominem attacked' and today when engaged in a rather civil discussion of ulrich's troubles he managed to get moderated for offtopic or ad hominem attacks on the disagreeable in almost every post he made. that's small stuff compared to still undeleted direct name calling and multiple insults he unleashed against many members.

so take it in strides, darryl, the sensitivity and 'respect' by this poster are reserved only for one home state wonder. guess who ? compassion is not an equal opportunity wonder for this poster.

 

[pedaling squares]

So if I understand this correctly, the German public does not support this:

but loves this:

and this:

Some things I'll never understand.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Lovely compassionate response there. I myself might class my self as feeling "sorry for myself" when....

Thanks Darryl for the excellent post. Depression is one of the most undiagnosed, and most dismissed or even ridiculed illnesses. To assume that it doesn't effect people with fame or fortune or in the public eye, or those that suffer from it are merely "feeling sorry for themselves" is truly sad in itself.

 

[Anonymous]

can you please explain to me what "burnout" is? Particularly in the life of a rich retired bike pro? WTH is he burned out from?

has the demise of pantani and vandenbroucke tought you nothing? Money does not make you immune to difficulty

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Or Jiminez...