Poor Jan

[Spare Tyre]

Oh really?

I suggest the following exercise. Go to the main site of Cyclingnews, type in 'Ullrich' as search term and check the first 200 results. Out of those there's 2 from 2010 (one of them the 'burnout' story) and two from 2009 (one of them about Ullrich possibly writing a book). So, 2% of 200 news articles are from the last two years! Half of them triggered by Ullrich himself, saying stuff to the press. The other half is about the progress/end of different types of legal proceedings.

2%. I call that 'off the radar'. You may call it 'in the limelight'. YMMV

I don't think there is a direct relationship between frequency of Cycling News stories concerning Ullrich and the interest of German news media.

 

[python]

jan and texas are twins ?

what im going to say is sad, a bit weird and perhaps controversial but i find ulle’s troubles (with some of his compatriots) somewhat reminiscent of and explainable by texas troubles (with some of his compatriots).

by no means mine is a direct comparison or a pejorative observation but i see a parallel between german obsession with looking inwardly after certain historical calamities in the ‘old world’ and american obsession with examining themselves through legal and ethical filters given the still establishing national conscience and the relative lack of historical footing in the ‘new world’.

now both camps can throw stones at me

 

[Cobblestoned]

Oh really?

I suggest the following exercise. Go to the main site of Cyclingnews, type in 'Ullrich' as search term and check the first 200 results. Out of those there's 2 from 2010 (one of them the 'burnout' story) and two from 2009 (one of them about Ullrich possibly writing a book). So, 2% of 200 news articles are from the last two years! Half of them triggered by Ullrich himself, saying stuff to the press. The other half is about the progress/end of different types of legal proceedings.

2%. I call that 'off the radar'. You may call it 'in the limelight'. YMMV

cyclingnews is not Germany

I suggest the following exercise: think before you post !

I could tell you 1000 things, you never read on cyclingnews.

 

[Cobblestoned]

... and the leader of this witch hunt is Werner Franke. It´s sad that one person is allowed to be "killed" in the media. Even if guilty of doping, that is far too much. Anyway, this week i´ll make a Strafanzeige vs. Franke (§ § 164, 185 and 186 StGB).

The lawsuits with Franke go 50/50, because Ullrich sued him, too. Just a detail.

But that is not a justification for the witchhunt on court and especially in some Media in Germany. Ullrich has some special friends in the media for example Spiegel and SZ.

 

[L'arriviste]

what im going to say is sad, a bit weird and perhaps controversial but i find ulle’s troubles (with some of his compatriots) somewhat reminiscent of and explainable by texas troubles (with some of his compatriots).

by no means mine is a direct comparison or a pejorative observation but i see a parallel between german obsession with looking inwardly after certain historical calamities in the ‘old world’ and american obsession with examining themselves through legal and ethical filters given the still establishing national conscience and the relative lack of historical footing in the ‘new world’.

now both camps can throw stones at me

One stone thrown for OT, pyth'. It's not an Armstrong thread.

Second stone thrown for drawing analogies between Ullrich's personal problems and a "[G]erman obsession with looking inwardly after certain historical calamities in the ‘old world’". Now really, come off it, please!

 

[Cobblestoned]

.....




.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

Ullrich's TdF win is way past the 8 year limit. I understand that he clams up about OP which is more recent. But his most important career result is now 13 years back in time. The least he could do is a 'Zabel'.

I said in my first post in this thread that I didn't know about his court cases, because I'm not too terribly interested. But isn't most of his legal trouble with Franke because Ullrich denied doping? If so, wouldn't all this stuff go away when he confesses? What legal battles does he still have to fight anyway? Do you know the specifics?

No it´s not. Ullrich never denied doping. He said he didn´t cheat others (riders). Franke started the "war" by himself. Breaking endless laws by launching bank receipts, police documents etc. in the press. He all does it, because he is a narcissist. Maybe even a psychopath. He only pretends to fight doping. His last real try to fight doping is 20 years ago (uncovering the East Germany doping practises).

 

[Cobblestoned]

Ullrich's TdF win is way past the 8 year limit. I understand that he clams up about OP which is more recent. But his most important career result is now 13 years back in time. The least he could do is a 'Zabel'.

I said in my first post in this thread that I didn't know about his court cases, because I'm not too terribly interested. But isn't most of his legal trouble with Franke because Ullrich denied doping? If so, wouldn't all this stuff go away when he confesses? What legal battles does he still have to fight anyway? Do you know the specifics?

Ullrich last important results were winning the Tour de Suisse 2006 and a Giro TT 2006. Second at the TdF many times is also an important achievement. Same goes for Olympics gold medal (they (IOC and Mr Bach) also thought of taking that away, but they didn´t).

I think guys like you have a big "winning" problem, and wins must also be the very very biggest like TdF.


For the specifics:
still pending (after, I think, 5 lawsuits (Bonn/Telekom, Dahms, Franke 2-3) in total ):
http://www.radsport-news.com/sport/sportnews_65041.htm
http://www.radsport-news.com/sport/sportnews_65056.htm

still pending:
UCI, Suisse cycling-->CAS

 

[Cobblestoned]

No it´s not. Ullrich never denied doping. He said he didn´t cheat others (riders). Franke started the "war" by himself. Breaking endless laws by launching bank receipts, police documents etc. in the press. He all does it, because he is a narcissist. Maybe even a psychopath. He only pretends to fight doping. His last real try to fight doping is 20 years ago (uncovering the East Germany doping practises).

The discussion about "leaks" is now going on here. Ullrich is a good example for that. The "Spiegel" even printed bank account statements and private emails and so on....
Many leaks also at public prosecutors and they give them to the media. Something that shouldn´t be. There were many borders crossed.

Franke always highlights his "good" ambitions. But I don´t believe him any more. To much he said about Ullrich.
"Stupid boy with fat red cheeks" is only one example.

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

So true. What a good competitor and person. Never a negative word to say about his foes and was even able to add some humour and gratious professionalism when in defeat.

Wish you a speedy recovery Jan and try to write that book...an english version please.

NW

amen to cloxxi's offer and this here sentiment. Even with what Jan's been through, there's still a lot of ppl who like him a lot and wish him well. Gut gluck Jan.

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

Man you are such a hypocrite.

where's the beef?

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

The discussion about "leaks" is now going on here. Ullrich is a good example for that. The "Spiegel" even printed bank account statements and private emails and so on....
Many leaks also at public prosecutors and they give them to the media. Something that shouldn´t be. There were many borders crossed.

Franke always highlights his "good" ambitions. But I don´t believe him any more. To much he said about Ullrich.
"Stupid boy with fat red cheeks" is only one example.

His "good" ambitions are reading his name in newspapers. That helps to sell his books.

Could you help me with some links* of leaked bank account infos, private e-mails, BKA-Akten, Beleidigungen vs. him and (as he called us) stupid fans etc. It would help my Strafanzeige vs. Franke. You can also send them to me as PM, to not disturpe this discussion.

*Because i don´t wanna miss a thing to be angry about myself afterwards.

Thanks alot

 

[Cobblestones]

The discussion about "leaks" is now going on here. Ullrich is a good example for that. The "Spiegel" even printed bank account statements and private emails and so on....
Many leaks also at public prosecutors and they give them to the media. Something that shouldn´t be. There were many borders crossed.

Franke always highlights his "good" ambitions. But I don´t believe him any more. To much he said about Ullrich.
"Stupid boy with fat red cheeks" is only one example.

Ullrich last important results were winning the Tour de Suisse 2006 and a Giro TT 2006. Second at the TdF many times is also an important achievement. Same goes for Olympics gold medal (they (IOC and Mr Bach) also thought of taking that away, but they didn´t).

I think guys like you have a big "winning" problem, and wins must also be the very very biggest like TdF.

Aren't you the dude who recommends thinking before posting? Why not follow your own advice for a moment.

I said Ullrich most important win is from 1997, I didn't say an important win, or his last important win. Reading comprehension is your friend here.

And I checked the Spiegel. Turns out, the last story is about Ullrich losing a lawsuit he started himself against Franke. Wow what a witch hunt Franke has started. First he let's himself sue and then has the audacity to not just roll over. And to top it off, the media reports the story (which is that Franke is now legally allowed to say that Ullrich paid Fuentes at least 35,000 Euros). Why Ullrich would sue Franke for saying that is beyond me, when it's the truth and all.

But don't let the facts bite you in your ar$e when you pull your moronic posts out of the selfsame.

 

[Cobblestoned]

Aren't you the dude who recommends thinking before posting? Why not follow your own advice for a moment.

I said Ullrich most important win is from 1997, I didn't say an important win, or his last important win. Reading comprehension is your friend here.

And I checked the Spiegel. Turns out, the last story is about Ullrich losing a lawsuit he started himself against Franke. Wow what a witch hunt Franke has started. First he let's himself sue and then has the audacity to not just roll over. And to top it off, the media reports the story (which is that Franke is now legally allowed to say that Ullrich paid Fuentes at least 35,000 Euros). Why Ullrich would sue Franke for saying that is beyond me, when it's the truth and all.

But don't let the facts bite you in your ar$e when you pull your moronic posts out of the selfsame.

I read it right, but is it so hard to understand that I only wanted to tell you that perhaps Ullrich isn´t only afraid of losing his "BIGGEST" win ?
And are you really trying to tell me/us, that Ullrich was offradar in Germany for a very long period, not witchhunted and humiliated by the German media and Franke ?

Go and read the whole! Ullrich-war story, watching the correct timeline and development. Thats better for your education and appearance.
Then please come back.

But anyway I think, it wasn´t a good idea to sue Franke because of that "detail" and I don´t think that it was Jan´s idea.
This 35.000€ trial was really confusing. You can really believe that.

Logically it was clear that Franke can say this and could/would be 99% right. At the end he won, but for the lawyers and lawexperts it was and still is a "hard nut".
All the time, for years, it was all about details about Franke´s statement (not exactly 35.000, but 34.999 or 35.001 - not for illegal drugs, but for blood or guidence etc...) and at the end the decision was all about interpretation and ...I can´t explain. Really, really confusing lawsuit.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

And I checked the Spiegel. Turns out, the last story is about Ullrich losing a lawsuit he started himself against Franke. Wow what a witch hunt Franke has started. First he let's himself sue and then has the audacity to not just roll over. And to top it off, the media reports the story (which is that Franke is now legally allowed to say that Ullrich paid Fuentes at least 35,000 Euros). Why Ullrich would sue Franke for saying that is beyond me, when it's the truth and all.

But don't let the facts bite you in your ar$e when you pull your moronic posts out of the selfsame.

Halftruths....

Franke started the "war" way back in 2006 (together w/SPIEGEL, Weinreich and SZ) and never stopped. Every year around the TdF they came up with a "new story". The only purpose was/is to destroy him mentally and financially. The are already sucsessful with their 1st goal.That forced Ullrich try to (unsucsessful) hit back. Now Franke already took the next step. To say it w/your words: He is the moronic ar$e.

If you don´t know the whole story, better keep quiet.