Poor Jan

[DAOTEC]

Have to follow-up on this 1 >

but German public love this:

this:

and this:

but not this:

agree ... Some things I'll never understand.

 

[thehog]

Edited by mod.

 

[Neworld]

Chris E and Polish,

Are you 2 for real? How much life experience do you have? I ask because as most people are 30 have either had depression (1 in 7 world wide prevalence) or known someone with it. Most had seen death, known people to die, have kids and spouses with those related stressors, work issues... basically major issues. Your comments are not compatible with mature and worldly peoples.

Depression/mood disorders are insidious, destructive and affect all walks of life. To make cavalier childish comments about anyone, including Jan, is very small-minded.

Are you Jan? Have you lived through his upbringing, his divorce from his first wife and child, life as a professional cyclist; doping included? Have you been kicked out of the TdF, investigated, socially ostracized and belittled?

Do you really think the only stresses in life are one's lack of money? Are their not many other cases of severe depression and even suicide in procycling? (Pantani, VDB,...)

Your comments:

"... life of a rich retired bike pro? WTH is he burned out from? Eating donuts? "

"I personally think a lot of times psychological evaluations are a bunch of BS. People feeling sorry for themselves. I look forward to discussion about what a rich retired bike racer is burned out from."

"What I do know is where I come from people have real issues" Oh so you 'own' what classifies as real stress?

"Do you see other cyclists suffering from various psychological issues in the future due to these witch hunts?"

I am sure that thoughtful readers have the insight to be compassionate of the high probability that Jan is sad and 'burned-out'. Conversely, sociopaths are not affected by routine humanely stressors and seldom become depressed...because they lack insight into what is right and wrong, and don't feel bad about ...well anything.

I wish Jan all the time he needs to find a happy place in life free from as much stress as he can resolve. He is a class act.

NW

 

[Neworld]

Coulda Woulda Shoulda

Jan could have won in 2003 if he ATTACKED when Lance fell instead of waiting. Jan should have won in 1999 but he hurt his knee. Jan would have won in 2006 but he was banned.

Some believe that Jan didn't dope as his rivals did between 1999 and 2002 (see JV and FA MMS)

By the way, put Jan on any of the Postal teams from 1999 to 2005, especially 2003- did you see that Bianchi team roster, and I defy you to tell me that the results would be the same.


NW

 

[scribe]

has the demise of pantani and vandenbroucke tought you nothing? Money does not make you immune to difficulty

it is more frequently enabling rather than disabling.

 

[Spare Tyre]

@Chris E, please put a sock in it. Your posts say much more about you than Ullrich or anyone else suffering from depression/anxiety etc.



I have suffered from depression & anxiety for 20 years, and have had two complete breakdowns or "burnouts". Three years ago I was diagnosed as having PTSD and am finally getting helpful therapy. Your comments show a complete lack of understanding of such things.

If Jan is suffering from "burnout" as I understand it to be, my heart goes out to him.

I join with those wishing him well.

@TheHog - if what you say is true/accurate it offers us some interesting insight. Thanks.

 

[sida-mot]

it is more frequently enabling rather than disabling.

True. However I would imagine that living a lie and being a fraud surely takes its toll on a man. I'm not saying thats the case here but that might be a possible reason.

I have always liked Jan. I think there is a large probability that he will actually write that book or at least tell it like it was. He has kind of admitted something was not right already. The truth shall set him free.

 

[Cobblestoned]

So if I understand this correctly, the German public does not support this:

but loves this:

and this:

Some things I'll never understand.

No, you didn´t understand.
You have to distinguish German media and German public.

But I am happy that we are no more the "Nazis", but only love Hasselhof and Jacko. Thats a step forward for us.

 

[happychappy]

The Jan will crush burnout syndrome like goat sausages (?).

 

[Anonymous]

Chris E and Polish,

Are you 2 for real? How much life experience do you have? I ask because as most people are 30 have either had depression (1 in 7 world wide prevalence)

its actually higher than that if you include depression/anxiety

you have a 1 in 5 chance each year of suffering someform of mental illness, that increases to 1 in 3 over your lifetime. 20% of us this year will suffer some sort of mental health problem

im now 18 months into my phase of being "mental"

 

[Anonymous]

True. However I would imagine that living a lie and being a fraud surely takes its toll on a man. I'm not saying thats the case here but that might be a possible reason.

Mental illness is not particularly selective unfortunately.

 

[ChrisE]

Lovely compassionate responce there. I myself might class my self as feeling "sorry for myself" when I twice overdosed on presciption tablets in 2001 and arrived at emergancy unconcious.
"Feeling sorry for yourself" might not be attractive and it`s certainly not an "easy option"...cus aint an option at all .. but theres a lot of dead people to prove it aint somat to rediculed.
Wealth has little to do with it....as celebrity suicides and depression stories abound....in your view does that wealth preclude them compassion?
Hope you never get realy down Chris....cus if ya dont ya very lucky.

I'm sorry. You seem to think "alot of times" includes you.

A little insecure are we?

 

[ChrisE]

@Chris E, please put a sock in it. Your posts say much more about you than Ullrich or anyone else suffering from depression/anxiety etc.

Then don't read my posts. You haven't anyway, since upthread I said psycohological problems are real but I was commenting on this particular issue with this particular person. Please debate the point instead of attacking the poster.

It's really that simple. Thanks.

 

[Darryl Webster]

Then don't read my posts. You haven't anyway, since upthread I said psycohological problems are real but I was commenting on this particular issue with this particular person. Please debate the point instead of attacking the poster.

It's really that simple. Thanks.

And your in a position to judge wether or not Jans "burnout" is real or otherwise Chris?
Pro cyclists arent cartoon characters, there as multi dimensional as any other person in society and just as for the rest of us theres a myriad of interpersonal relationships, family, personal history, health @ wealth issues to cause us both difficulties and peace.
Given that, by and large, and rightly so, most of us will never know the "real" Jan Ullrich comments about what he`s going through or otherwise realy are nothing but speculation.
Good Grace means accepting , for now at least, hes beeing honest.
You wouldnt kick a man with a broken leg but are quite happy to do so to a ( possibly) broken mind?
In a nutshell theres the difficulty of mental illness/ stress @ anxiety.

 

[ChrisE]

And your in a position to judge wether or not Jans "burnout" is real or otherwise Chris?

This is an internet forum. Go ahead and stop posting and reading if you think people shouldn't post their opinions and speculation. Replace the bolded part above with any subject discussed on this forum and let's go ahead and shut it down.

You know zero about me, what I have been thru in life or what I go thru day to day. Or, what I have experienced or know bout mental illness. I sympathize with your issue but that is not the point. So, you can save the lecture about mental illness because I am familiar with it. You are wasting bandwidth trying to educate me on a tangent that is totally off topic.

Here's the topic: I can say I think JU has had a good life and he needs to suck it up. I can say he needs to take perspective on just how good his life has been. I can also say I think this is a PR stunt. I can say people use mental illness as a crutch and alot of times it is a BS diagnosis. I have questioned whether a similar thread would be opened about other cyclists if they publicized the same issue. I have said nothing more than that in this thread, all within the forum rules.

That does not mean I am belittling mental illness.

YMMV.

 

[hrotha]

This is an internet forum. Go ahead and stop posting and reading if you think people shouldn't post their opinions and speculation. Replace the bolded part above with any subject discussed on this forum and let's go ahead and shut it down.

You know zero about me, what I have been thru in life or what I go thru day to day. Or, what I have experienced or know bout mental illness. I sympathize with your issue but that is not the point. So, you can save the lecture about mental illness because I am familiar with it. You are wasting bandwidth trying to educate me on a tangent that is totally off topic.

Here's the topic: I can say I think JU has had a good life and he needs to suck it up. I can say he needs to take perspective on just how good his life has been. I can also say I think this is a PR stunt. I can say people use mental illness as a crutch and alot of times it is a BS diagnosis. I have questioned whether a similar thread would be opened about other cyclists if they publicized the same issue. I have said nothing more than that in this thread, all within the forum rules.

That does not mean I am belittling mental illness.

YMMV.

This is an internet forum, yes. You can post whatever you want, but that doesn't mean people aren't going to call you out for posting stupid things like "If you're well off and you still suffer from depression or stress, you're one gigantic pussy." It works both ways.

 

[ChrisE]

This is an internet forum, yes. You can post whatever you want, but that doesn't mean people aren't going to call you out for posting stupid things like "If you're well off and you still suffer from depression or stress, you're one gigantic pussy." It works both ways.

And that is fine and fair. I tend to think people need to have perspective when dealing with their problems. YMMV, obviously.

 

[Anonymous]

"If you're well off and you still suffer from depression or stress, you're one gigantic pussy." .

thats pretty much what any doctor over fifty will tell you as well.. Didnt have stress in their day..

 

[Darryl Webster]

Beatles summed it up many moons ago:

Enjoy http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SMwZsFKIXa8

 

[thehog]

@TheHog - if what you say is true/accurate it offers us some interesting insight. Thanks.

Most of what I wrote was in Jan's autobiography. Its not a fairy tale book like Armstrong's. Its all real. There another story in there after the ecstasy incident. Jan is sitting in a restaurant with his then wife Gaby reaching to the bottom of his heart with about what a fool he's been. She peels of the label from the wine bottle they're drinking and she tells him to write on the back of the label that you never want to feel this way again. You never want to be at this point again in your life. Jan writes down the words and keeps the label. In the book there's a picture of the wine label with his words.

In 2003 there an issue of ProCycling magazine which attend the centenary dinner for the Tour de France. All the then alive Tour winners were there. Jan really was proud. In an interview in the same magazine in touched on some of the depression. He said that a lot of cyclists are loners. Spending 6 hours a day on a bike, on your own means a lot of thoughts go through your head. He said on one hand the cycling helped by sometimes it was counterproductive. He also spoke extremely highly of Pontoon. He has great respect for him.

a lot of this comes from that cyclists really don't want to dope. But they do and a lot of time they have. I don't know if I'm right but to my understanding is that Jan didn't want to dope. He really didn't but with the pressure. He had to go down that path as all cyclists do.

I've said it before the worst thing for any doped athlete is the realization that they don't know what they could have achieve or know what their talent level was. That's what kills them.

Alas Jan was very good and he knew it to. Probably the best cyclist ever but was beaten by a lot of highly charged riders who were chemically enhanced.

Edit: I was PM'd that Stefan now has opened a bike store in Berlin.

 

[flicker]

In 2003 there an issue of ProCycling magazine which attend the centenary dinner for the Tour de France. All the then alive Tour winners were there. Jan really was proud. In an interview in the same magazine in touched on some of the depression. He said that a lot of cyclists are loners. Spending 6 hours a day on a bike, on your own means a lot of thoughts go through your head. He said on one hand the cycling helped by sometimes it was counterproductive. He also spoke extremely highly of Pontoon. He has great respect for him.

a lot of this comes from that cyclists really don't want to dope. But they do and a lot of time they have. I don't know if I'm right but to my understanding is that Jan didn't want to dope. He really didn't but with the pressure. He had to go down that path as all cyclists do.

I really think that the reason some people ride is that they are loners and depressed.I can understand why they want to dope but they do have a choice. I think for all people who retire and especially sports persons there is a void, hence athletes coming out of retirement. Compound that with the way Ulrich retired and I can see the burnout or whatever it really is.

 

[Cloxxki]

I know some people sufereing from burn out sydrome personally. It's not a picknick.

There a few ways to prevent it:
- sell your soul to the devil (you know who you are)
- be a really lazy, passive person

Seriously, it seems to happen to people with a truly good heart first. Spiritually, not sports-medically I mean that.

 

[buckwheat]

Chris E and Polish,

Are you 2 for real? How much life experience do you have? I ask because as most people are 30 have either had depression (1 in 7 world wide prevalence) or known someone with it. Most had seen death, known people to die, have kids and spouses with those related stressors, work issues... basically major issues. Your comments are not compatible with mature and worldly peoples.

Depression/mood disorders are insidious, destructive and affect all walks of life. To make cavalier childish comments about anyone, including Jan, is very small-minded.

Are you Jan? Have you lived through his upbringing, his divorce from his first wife and child, life as a professional cyclist; doping included? Have you been kicked out of the TdF, investigated, socially ostracized and belittled?

Do you really think the only stresses in life are one's lack of money? Are their not many other cases of severe depression and even suicide in procycling? (Pantani, VDB,...)

Your comments:


I am sure that thoughtful readers have the insight to be compassionate of the high probability that Jan is sad and 'burned-out'. Conversely, sociopaths are not affected by routine humanely stressors and seldom become depressed...because they lack insight into what is right and wrong, and don't feel bad about ...well anything.

I wish Jan all the time he needs to find a happy place in life free from as much stress as he can resolve. He is a class act.

NW

Agreed, good post.

His father also abandoned the family. He showed up at the World Championships in '93 and tried to reunite with Jan. Jan was happy to see him and he gave Jan his phone number. Jan put the number in his jersey pocket. The ensuing rain smudged the ink rendering the number illegible. Sad story. Does anyone know if they ever were reunited?

 

[pedaling squares]

No, you didn´t understand.
You have to distinguish German media and German public.

But I am happy that we are no more the "Nazis", but only love Hasselhof and Jacko. Thats a step forward for us.

Clearly my post was a tongue in cheek look at stereotypes. After a debate on mental health instead of Jan Ullrich I thought it was needed. Good work bringing in the Nazis though.

 

[hrotha]

thats pretty much what any doctor over fifty will tell you as well.. Didnt have stress in their day..

Well yes, and if you go back far enough in time someone will suggest evil spirits are to blame for Ullrich's condition. That's the thing with science, it goes forward.