Porte Penalised 2 minutes for getting Clarkes Wheel -Fair?

[Escarabajo]

We need to understand that when another rider from a different team pulls to help the other rider is not the same thing. The big difference is that you would have to prove that he is doing it for that purpose and that will be impossible. Really, impossible. Because the other rider will always say that he was riding for his own benefit in GC. Even if it is a top 20 position. LOL. Nieve can say that if Froome and Quintana crashed together on Ventoux he would have had a chance to win. No matter how distant that possibility is. It is still possible. So please stop that argument because is not going to work. And it has always happened and it will continue to happen.

In fact I heard that tonight Uran and Porte are secretly meeting together in order to organize a massive attack on the next stages to drop Contador. The two teams will work together (with whatever team Etixx has left) in the next few days.

 

[Metabolol]

Re: Re:

[q
No matter how many times you repeat the same stupidity, it will not become less stupid. Once more: not one rider in the pro peloton knows all of the UCI's regulations. If not knowing every regulation makes you an amateur, there is not one single professional rider in the sport.

This is not like learning the rules to Monopoly before you play.

It's irrelevant and besides this is a pretty important rule to know.

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

Re: Re:

Anyone who says Porte (or Clarke, or Sky or Brailsford) "should have known" the rules is speaking from a position of complete ignorance of the scale and complexity of the UCI's regulations and does not understand that not one rider in the peloton knows them all. Or, given that this has been pointed out repeatedly, the alternative is that people making that argument are being actively disingenuous.

Well that rule is pretty clear, sanction is pretty clear, there;s nothing shady or gray about this rule. If Sir Dave Brailsford and his team Sky didn't know about this one specifically, then they are bunch of amateurs and they deserve this penalty completely!

No matter how many times you repeat the same stupidity, it will not become less stupid. Once more: not one rider in the pro peloton knows all of the UCI's regulations. If not knowing every regulation makes you an amateur, there is not one single professional rider in the sport.

This is not like learning the rules to Monopoly before you play.

I'm not talking about the riders, I'm talking about his TEAM, they NEED to know the rules, or you think not? I'm aware that no rider knows all the rules, but for what purpose serves his DS and his team car?!

A DS is in the car to provide advice on cycling tactics. They do not have the team's in-house lawyer in the car, if they have one. And even if they did, that lawyer would not be at all happy trying to give off the cuff advice from memory of the hundreds of pages of regulations relevant to a pro rider who doesn't participate in cross, track etc.

It is one thing to say, the rules are the rules and if you get bitten in the arse by one you didn't know about that's just tough. I can certainly respect that position. But that's quite different from all the idiotic gloating about how they should know all of the rules when in fact nobody else does either.

 

[Red Rick]

Re: Re:

i hope ASO will buy this race and transform it in to a decent one

every year same controversy **** because partisanship

PFWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!
HAHAH!!!!

HSHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAA!!!!!!!!

HA!!!

HHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAA!!!!

BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

URH... HURRRR... HURRRGH...

PAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAAA!!!!!

you seem pressed , take a chill pill

yes, imo Giro is the shitiest GT because organizers influence the outcome to much, every year.

No seriously dude, I've seen wishes of death and disease, and other hideos insults and comparisons, but that post is the biggest piece of *** I've seen during my time on this forum. Libertine's reaction is appropriate, and that should tell you something.

 

[Roude Leiw]

Re: Re:

Anyone who says Porte (or Clarke, or Sky or Brailsford) "should have known" the rules is speaking from a position of complete ignorance of the scale and complexity of the UCI's regulations and does not understand that not one rider in the peloton knows them all. Or, given that this has been pointed out repeatedly, the alternative is that people making that argument are being actively disingenuous.

Well that rule is pretty clear, sanction is pretty clear, there;s nothing shady or gray about this rule. If Sir Dave Brailsford and his team Sky didn't know about this one specifically, then they are bunch of amateurs and they deserve this penalty completely!

No matter how many times you repeat the same stupidity, it will not become less stupid. Once more: not one rider in the pro peloton knows all of the UCI's regulations. If not knowing every regulation makes you an amateur, there is not one single professional rider in the sport.

This is not like learning the rules to Monopoly before you play.

This might come as a shock, but for most trades in this world, you have to know the rules of your trade and abide by them. If you violate them, you risk being sanctioned. No court in this world (and i mean the real world) will let you off the hook by pleading ignorance of the law

 

[IamIronMan]

Combed through 13 pages. The synopsis as to why Porte should NOT have been penalized is because:

1) Sky doesn't travel with an in-car lawyer to warn them of any rules violations, thereby making it OK for them to break any rule they are "unfamiliar" with.
2) Plot by evil Italians and Spaniards (and Germans, and French, and Canadians) in the race jury.
3) Giro sucks, not an ASO-TdF clone.

 

[SkyTears]

commissaires stopped the race convoy when Porte punctured , just to be sure Porte lose time

joke of a race , as i said

 

[markene2]

The tears are real!

 

[rhubroma]

Re: Re:

[q
No matter how many times you repeat the same stupidity, it will not become less stupid. Once more: not one rider in the pro peloton knows all of the UCI's regulations. If not knowing every regulation makes you an amateur, there is not one single professional rider in the sport.

This is not like learning the rules to Monopoly before you play.

It's irrelevant and besides this is a pretty important rule to know.

It is interesting to note that most public positions are offered with a rigorous examination of the competancy of the applicant in Italy. Why, then, do the DSs not know the rules?

 

[red_flanders]

Re: Re:

[quote="

They claim to be the most rigorous advanced team in the peloton and insult other teams by baselessly implying those other teams are full of idiots who do nothing to prepare for races. Well, then they should know the rules.

Would have been far more efficient than special pillows.

But you don't really think that this is possible or reasonable - given that no rider on any team knows all of the rules or ever will. It's just another way of saying "Sky talk a lot of annoying, self-aggrandising bollocks, so I'm glad they are getting a shoeing". I even agree with the first part. They do talk a lot of annoying, self-aggrandising bollocks. But I'd prefer to see them beaten on the road, rather than on a commissaire's clipboard.

The insistence that teams and riders should not be aware of a rule that forbids giving equipment to another team is pretty far fetched. No, they don't know all the rules. This is pretty basic stuff. They have no argument.

 

[Roude Leiw]

Re:

commissaires stopped the race convoy when Porte punctured , just to be sure Porte lose time

joke of a race , as i said

Richie should have kept to swimming

 

[T-Nielsen]

Re:

commissaires stopped the race convoy when Porte punctured , just to be sure Porte lose time

joke of a race , as i said

So you have been proven wrong in your previous garbage and this is the new angle?

I am getting a Ukipy feel from you.

 

[red_flanders]

Re:

commissaires stopped the race convoy when Porte punctured , just to be sure Porte lose time

joke of a race , as i said

You are entitled to your view. You should, as a matter of principle, stop watching and commenting on this race.

I fully support your stand on this matter.

 

[sir fly]

This penalty unveiled the level of fear Contador's fans were hiding.
This is such a huge relief.

 

[the sceptic]

Re: Re:

commissaires stopped the race convoy when Porte punctured , just to be sure Porte lose time

joke of a race , as i said

Richie should have kept to swimming

he could be swimming in the tears of all skyfans

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

Re: Re:

Anyone who says Porte (or Clarke, or Sky or Brailsford) "should have known" the rules is speaking from a position of complete ignorance of the scale and complexity of the UCI's regulations and does not understand that not one rider in the peloton knows them all. Or, given that this has been pointed out repeatedly, the alternative is that people making that argument are being actively disingenuous.

Well that rule is pretty clear, sanction is pretty clear, there;s nothing shady or gray about this rule. If Sir Dave Brailsford and his team Sky didn't know about this one specifically, then they are bunch of amateurs and they deserve this penalty completely!

No matter how many times you repeat the same stupidity, it will not become less stupid. Once more: not one rider in the pro peloton knows all of the UCI's regulations. If not knowing every regulation makes you an amateur, there is not one single professional rider in the sport.

This is not like learning the rules to Monopoly before you play.

This might come as a shock, but for most trades in this world, you have to know the rules of your trade and abide by them. If you violate them, you risk being sanctioned. No court in this world (and i mean the real world) will let you off the hook by pleading ignorance of the law

You are entirely correct that a criminal court will not, in most circumstances, allow ignorance of the law to act as a defence. This is not because any judge is stupid enough to imagine that everyone in front of him or her is, should be or could be familiar with every law. And that includes not only the accused but also the prosecution and defence lawyers.

Cyclists are not expected to know all of the rules and regulations of their trade, whatever may or may not be the case in some other profession. And this is just as well, because not one single one of them does.

 

[Velolover2]

I'm starting to believe that RCS' business strategy is tabloid one.
Every single year we have controversies in their major race.

I agree with that. It's the same with Alberto's shoulder. Creating drama is a cash-cow. Like when Tyler Hamilton rode with a broken collarbone.

I respect the argument on both sides, but what I don't like is this soap opera it has turned into.

 

[ferryman]

Re: Re:

A DS is in the car to provide advice on cycling tactics. They do not have the team's in-house lawyer in the car, if they have one. And even if they did, that lawyer would not be at all happy trying to give off the cuff advice from memory of the hundreds of pages of regulations relevant to a pro rider who doesn't participate in cross, track etc.

I'm sorry but I have to disagree with this. I don't expect riders to know all of the rules of cycling but I do expect a DS to do so and for both to know at least the basics. Everyone and his dog knows the last 3 klik rule and the fact that you can't take a wheel from another team is pretty freaking basic as well. It would be interesting to hear the dialogue with the team car, which was a panic situation but the SKY DS team are to blame here, particularly when there was (an un yet unidentified SKY rider with Porte?) not the riders who acted in good faith to get Porte back on his bike.

 

[sir fly]

Vegni now trying to spin it... talking about CREDIBILITY.
The word can't be associated with the Giro. Too much inconsistency throughout the years.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re:

This penalty unveiled the level of fear Contador's fans were hiding.
This is such a huge relief.

I had only 1 fear: that Contador would lose pink at some point now only Aru (stage 12) and Cataldo (ITT) are still a threat.
Anyway, I didn't like Porte losing time today.

 

[Mr.White]

Quote to Zinoviev Letter:

It's pretty important rule, you know, you loose 2 min for first violation. And I don't buy that *** that nobody knows him, I think almost everyone knows it, cause I didn't saw riders doing this things before, which means only one thing, they know this rule, or at least they teams knows it. You don't need lawyer for this, rule is pretty simple, don't use any mechanical help from other team's riders. I think we all going to remember it know. And what idiotic gloating?! You think they done alright, it's ok to not know rules that can cost you 2,5,10 minutes or even expel you from race!!! You're right about one thing, someone is being idiotic!

 

[b.broadhurst]

Re: Porte Penalised 2 minutes for getting Clarkes Wheel -Fai

Team Sky @TeamSky · 6m 6 minutes ago
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[carton]

It's not like the UCI rulebook is a 10,000 page dissertation on string theory. This should've been pretty basic. Also, this wasn't a screw up by the commissaires like last year. They abided by the regulations in place. Harsh, for sure. Will it in any way taint whoever wins (and, again, Porte is not out of it, Quintana was 3:29 back after 13 just last year)? Not a chance. Porte went out and got a gel for Froome in 2013. He knew it was against the rules. Did it save Froome from a full bonk that could've cost him the Tour? Perhaps. Was it deliberate cheating? Pretty much. Does anyone give a darn two years later? No. Stuff happens, commissaires make calls, we all move on.

 

[rhubroma]

We could say, what for? Why does the rule exist? But ignorance of it at the level of team management is piss poor.

At the same time, it is a shame for the Giro. The TT would have been so much better without this incident. On the other hand comments about Contador playing up his shoulder as a potential excuse, is pathetic. That's been done by all the opposition.

 

[sir fly]

I wonder what would happen to Giro if a domestic rider doesn't get to a podium spot for thirty years.
By the look of things, a non-domestic winner for more than three years would kill it.