Potential reactions to Armstrong news...

[R.0.t.O]

Let's jump ahead for a minute to speculate on a few things.

Let's say for the sake of argument that Armstrong will be exposed. As far as I'm concerned, this is inevitable. The actual legal wrangling may take years, as we've seen with BALCO, but we will know the testimony provided by the main players much earlier than that.

Exposed for what though? Just the doping or more juicy stuff about LiveStrong or his personal life? Maybe at this stage they'll be quite happy if it finishes up with the doping being the main issue - the general public is thoroughly softened-up to the idea that professional athletes dope, I can't see there being a huge backlash in that case - certainly not against the bit-part players.

But there have been people, major people in the sport, who have supported him throughout the years. People like Eddy Merckx for example.

Eddy who? Almost anyone who respects who Eddy is already knows the score. He'll feign shock, he'll have been horribly let down, but he'll be tranquil that things have changed in cycling and that the new guys have a chance to race clean. The same goes for Phil 'n' Paul, they never suspected a thing - seriously their biggest difficulty will be finding something to talk about in the hours of airtime they usually fill talking about their man-crush. Pat has given the lead, even if he's proved to have doped he's still one of the greatest ever. Now let's never talk about him again. New clean generation.

What would someone like Chris Carmichael say? Let's be real, this guy has built a career on Armstrong's back and himself has been involved in an out-of-court settlement involving doping. Will people begin to doubt him and his so-called "expertise"? How would he be able to weasel his way out of this?

Will someone like him be able to continue with his career with a straight face, or will people judge him accordingly for all the lies he's propagated over the years? Will it affect his bottom line?

Carmichael sells to idiots so he may be affected by the "revelations" that Armstrong doped. But never underestimate the hubris of these guys - he's already built a career out of pretending to coach LA while Dr F did the job properly so he probably has a tactic for this scenario as well, you can picture it now "Riding clean - the secret new training techniques that CC has developed to get the new clean generation the same speeds without the dope." Obviously he was shocked and let down and never suspected a thing as well.

What about his cancer foundation? Will it fold from people being upset they've been lied to all these years or will they keep believing and donating money to the cause?

Probably not too much damage if the stories are relatively restricted to dopage. The Armstrong team have always been very good at moving the story along as they need to - when you stop and think about the bulk of evidence down the years about his doping it's amazing that things have gone on so long, but they always manage to isolate the particular allegation and play just that as if it was the only thing and not part of a building picture. They'll try for that tactic here too and try to erase all the past denials and make it all about how everyone was doing it, try to give the impression that he was always honest about what it took to win. For a lot of general public this will wash, and 'heroic cancer survivor' will remain the message.

Ironically if he avoids a major jail sentence I could see this all leading to another come back as he and his team will want to take back the agenda. Obviously not proper European races, just events that want the publicity.

If there's substantially more than the doping then all bets are off. If he's properly busted for abusing charity funds (using LiveStrong donations to buy his drugs or in some other way using it to fund an 'immoral lifestyle') then of course LiveStrong would shut the doors and Armstrong would sink without a trace.

 

[Darryl Webster]

Sorry if this sounds a bit dumb peeps but what is the SI article ?. I dont know what SI stands for. Cheers.

 

[jimbob_in_co]

Sorry if this sounds a bit dumb peeps but what is the SI article ?. I dont know what SI stands for. Cheers.

"Sports Illustrated", Darryl. The most popular weekly sports magazine in the USA for several decades, it started publishing in the mid-1950's.

Now more popular for its annual Swimsuit issue each Feb

 

[Darryl Webster]

"Sports Illustrated", Darryl. The most popular weekly sports magazine in the USA for several decades, it started publishing in the mid-1950's.

Now more popular for its annual Swimsuit issue each Feb

Cheers Jimbob. I`ve obviously heard of it but I rarely see it here in the UK though Im sure its on the shelves in WH Smiths. Will be taking a look!

 

[stainlessguy1]

The Big Picture , what about the big picture .

I think those fans WILL be upset because Armstrong sold his achievements as a by-product of clean living and hard work.

We have an extremely hypocritical, hyper-Calvinistic/Puritanical streak running through American society that elevates "hard work" to the level of monastic worship. The self-righteousness with which people fill themselves when it comes to their work ethic is what allows them to think that whatever they've gotten in life is because they've earned it. In this world, nepotism, cronyism, bribery and prejudice don't exist as causal factors to illustrate why some people achieve great things and others do not.

The fact is Armstrong didn't "earn" any of his success. He cheated, he lied about cheating, and he used cancer patients as a cloak to deflect criticism.

I think even casual Armstrong fans are going to be a bit miffed once the revelations come out. As for Michael Vick, there is nothing that is remotely comparable to Armstrong's situation. Bottom line is, Vick was able to redeem himself on the field of play, and his problems didn't stem from anything he did on the gridiron.

Armstrong cannot go back in time and show people he can win clean, because his career is over. Hence, there will be no on-the-bike redemption for Lance. No showing the world he was the most talented, hardest working cyclist who ever lived. Seeing as these two qualities were the whole foundation of his "brand", it will crumble when exposed.

_______________________________________________________________

The right man at the right time doing something he never thought he would

Well havent we all stumbled on a touchy subject here .
I read all the well written articles with great interest . Yet somehow it seems that the end result has more to do with polished shoes and a clean T shirt than the desperately needed hero that North America needed at a time when moral was low and expectations non existant in north american cycling . ( I will refer North American meaning all of cycling from Canada to Mexico ) .

The Big picture here is what all those who have written are forgetting .
Lance Armstrong was a hero , a hero of his day as he changed the way cycling is looked at in North America . Lance was also a Cancer patient and as many of us know , anytime one becomes a patient one literally gets himself on the human test subject list of experimental anything . So that means some doctor gets to practice medicine on you .....
Together him being an athlete and a cancer patient it set the stage for what is most liked in North America . ( A hero and an ablilty to raise money for something, a great North American tradition )

The Big picture comes in as the hope he generated across North America through his plight and recovery and victories and his becoming a household name everywhere . IN so doing , Cycling was put on the map in a generally Car dominated society where cyclists were mocked and ridiculed for years and years .

Along with cancer patients like Terry Fox , and the famous Terry fox run , which is held in numerous places now annually . We have gained new interest in a mode of transportation for all new comers . Through Lances efforts in his 7 time tdf wins ... North Americans have opened their eyes .
WE have now numerous rides and runs , lasting for days , with camp outs and almost stage race like events held to raise money for cancer . Complete with matching jerseys for tens of thousands of riders and the numbers of participants are growing . They are growing so much that they are making teams and giving themselves names and comming together year after year for these types of events .

The cancer patients , that watched and prayed that whatever Lance was given to speed his cure and continue his epic journey must have given many that were laying in their beds, tears of hope . Maybe this time its enough . Maybe this time there is a breakthrough .

I suppose that many of you that wrote , as to the doping , yes well i guess that thought didnt cross the mind at all at the time , because we looked at Lance and said ,,,, there is a soldier , sacrificing his body , unbeknowing to him what the outcome will be later . WE all cheered him on .

So now , i think its time to stop Lance bashing , because its the idea that he made history and a first for North America and a first for rallying cycling again in the hearts and minds of the average person . A first that he finished the multiple tours in First by a North American . The Idea is launched , North Americans can do it too .. the idea now stands Not just with Greg Lemond and his victories and other great north American Cyclists but over and over .
YOU cant kill an idea . So now North Americans know .... and they know they no longer need to fear the bicycle .

Now i ask all you fellow cyclists to shed some light on all the narrow minded ideology we all are caught up in and ask yourself .... There is a benefit that we all enjoy as riders since Lance has finalized the mark of a Seven time tdf champion . That benefit is we have finally become recognized in a car dominated society . There is NOT a single person doesnt know someone relative or stranger that is struggling or dying of cancer . Lance's personal struggle gave us all hope .

So what happens now , I suppose its how a champion conducts himself and what he does with the capabilities he is given and the advisors he might be with . ..... Remember you cant kill an Idea .

so best of luck Lance ,,, and thanks .

 

[D-Queued]

Mentioning Terry Fox in a promotion of Lance serves only to underscore the contrast between the genuine article and someone who is in it for their own gain.

It provides further proof of Lance's con game.

Nice try.

Dave.

Edit to add: This is the idea that you cannot kill. The idea that Lance is a cheat, and is now cheating victims of cancer.

 

[Hugh Januss]

Yeah come on you guys, Lance is just misunderstood.

 

[Polish]

"Sports Illustrated", Darryl. The most popular weekly sports magazine in the USA for several decades, it started publishing in the mid-1950's.

Now more popular for its annual Swimsuit issue each Feb

And most readers of SI will NOT have a problem with "excessive" lapdances lol.

They may have an issue with dudes shaving their legs and putting lube in their leotards however

 

[BotanyBay]

Yet somehow it seems that the end result has more to do with polished shoes and a clean T shirt than the desperately needed hero that North America needed at a time when moral was low and expectations non existant in north american cycling .

America didn't "need a hero". Most Americans are about as willing as a neglected dog to make a person with the right positioning (and story) into an "iconic hero". It's not out of need. It's a naivete combined with deception.

But Americans quickly turn on false heroes.

 

[Oldman]

_______________________________________________________________

The right man at the right time doing something he never thought he would

So what happens now , I suppose its how a champion conducts himself and what he does with the capabilities he is given and the advisors he might be with . ..... Remember you cant kill an Idea .

so best of luck Lance ,,, and thanks .

I'll probably regret responding but do you really begin by classifying a serial cheater as a "champion"? Kind of like calling Gary Ridgeway a playboy about town.

 

[stainlessguy1]

Mentioning Terry Fox in a promotion of Lance serves only to underscore the contrast between the genuine article and someone who is in it for their own gain.

It provides further proof of Lance's con game.

Nice try.

Dave.

Edit to add: This is the idea that you cannot kill. The idea that Lance is a cheat, and is now cheating victims of cancer.

________________________________________________________

I dont think i ment that the idea that one cannot kill is one pertaining to a con game . However , perhaps you could enlighten me , as to exactly what con game you are talking about , that Lance is playing on cancer patients ?

The reason i included Terry Fox , is because he did a great thing , ran and died trying to promote the awareness of his plight .... I didnt want to leave out great people that have gone before . My belief is that every human somehow in someway does contribute something . WE remember Terry in a much different way and yes a true Hero ,,, unselfish running for his life .

 

[jimbob_in_co]

Please file the following in the "but look at all the good I've done" folder for the Armstrong Legal Defense Team.

The right man at the right time doing something he never thought he would

Well havent we all stumbled on a touchy subject here .
I read all the well written articles with great interest . Yet somehow it seems that the end result has more to do with polished shoes and a clean T shirt than the desperately needed hero that North America needed at a time when moral was low and expectations non existant in north american cycling . ( I will refer North American meaning all of cycling from Canada to Mexico ) .

[...snip for brevity...]

 

[stainlessguy1]

America didn't "need a hero". Most Americans are about as willing as a neglected dog to make a person with the right positioning (and story) into an "iconic hero". It's not out of need. It's a naivete combined with deception.

But Americans quickly turn on false heroes.

___________________________________________________________

Well , i did say north america , which includes Canada , and some of us needed a hero to make cycling safer for a while ....... unless you guys south of the boarder still like to run into each other on purpose .
therefore mission accomplished , that part worked ,,, awareness is raised and untill now ,,, it did great things for cycling . The fact that rich people have money availablity go to their heads ,,, is a different ball of wax all together .

You are right about false heros ..... sometimes its way to late to figure out who is geniune till its over .

 

[BotanyBay]

Mentioning Terry Fox in a promotion of Lance serves only to underscore the contrast between the genuine article and someone who is in it for their own gain.

+1.

Terry Fox ran across Canada (oh man, total 1980's HBO flashback) and raised money along the way. People saw him run and they donated money for research with no expectation of getting anything back. Likewise, Terry Fox didn't expect anything back either. Just enough to cover the costs of doing the run.

Now people raise just enough to cover the expensive entry fee so they can be photographed in the same mob as Lance. And they post things on their Facebook pages that make them look like tireless cancer-combating "fundraisers".

If Lance was really doing it in '09 and '10 for Cancer, then he would have pledged his prize money to the LAF. Did he do that? No. Did he need the money? No.

 

[stainlessguy1]

Please file the following in the "but look at all the good I've done" folder for the Armstrong Legal Defense Team.

LOL .. yes maybe you are absolutely right but .... its not anything we will gain out of the situation at hand other than the byproduct . The best to come out of all this is a win win situation . least cycling takes backward steps in north america and we start all over again . There is a reason for everything that happens , jury is still out .

 

[stainlessguy1]

+1.

Terry Fox ran across Canada (oh man, total 1980's HBO flashback) and raised money along the way. People saw him run and they donated money for research with no expectation of getting anything back. Likewise, Terry Fox didn't expect anything back either. Just enough to cover the costs of doing the run.

Now people raise just enough to cover the expensive entry fee so they can be photographed in the same mob as Lance. And they post things on their Facebook pages that make them look like tireless cancer-combating "fundraisers".

If Lance was really doing it in '09 and '10 for Cancer, then he would have pledged his prize money to the LAF. Did he do that? No. Did he need the money? No.

________________________________________________________________

I guess you must be right about that . I guess there were no shortage of riders paying to ride with Lance during the quick zip mystery tour that Lance did in southern ontario a few years ago , with lots of rich dignitaries from local coporations paying to ride with him . I often wonder why the exact route was kept a secret .

 

[Hugh Januss]

________________________________________________________________

I guess you must be right about that . I guess there were no shortage of riders paying to ride with Lance during the quick zip mystery tour that Lance did in southern ontario a few years ago , with lots of rich dignitaries from local coporations paying to ride with him . I often wonder why the exact route was kept a secret .

Raising secret awareness?

 

[stainlessguy1]

Raising secret awareness?

Lmao ... ok so yes good one .... ... i must say , aware , but not too aware .

 

[D-Queued]

and WE will remember Lance as a true cad ,,, selfishly running to pad his lifestyle

___________________________________________________________

Well , i did say north america , which includes Canada , and some of us needed a hero to make cycling safer for a while ....

Are you serious?

________________________________________________________________

I guess you must be right about that . I guess there were no shortage of riders paying to ride with Lance during the quick zip mystery tour that Lance did in southern ontario a few years ago , with lots of rich dignitaries from local coporations paying to ride with him . I often wonder why the exact route was kept a secret .

So Lance did the 'read my lips' service to Ontario just like he cut out on the hefty contributors that paid to ride with him in Vancouver?

Maybe we can just ask Canada Customs to turn him back next time so he will stop stealing our money.

Would Terry Fox have done a secret run, surrounding himself with only "rich dignataries"?

You have embarrassed Canada with your comparison.

Dave.

 

[jimbob_in_co]

+1.

Terry Fox ran across Canada (oh man, total 1980's HBO flashback) and raised money along the way. People saw him run and they donated money for research with no expectation of getting anything back. Likewise, Terry Fox didn't expect anything back either. Just enough to cover the costs of doing the run.

Now people raise just enough to cover the expensive entry fee so they can be photographed in the same mob as Lance. And they post things on their Facebook pages that make them look like tireless cancer-combating "fundraisers".

Not all of us BB. Some people still pay their own expenses to do cross coast to coast trips (if only by bicycle), and do their best to get the word out to raise money for worthy causes, with 100% of the donations going directly to the benefiting organizations.

Terry Fox, now there was a truly inspiration human being.

 

[BotanyBay]

Not all of us BB. Some people still pay their own expenses to do cross coast to coast trips (if only by bicycle), and do their best to get the word out to raise money for worthy causes, with 100% of the donations going directly to the benefiting organizations.

Terry Fox, now there was a truly inspiration human being.

That's great you paid your own way. More $ left over for the charity.

It's a shame that charities have coached people to raise money for their entry fees rather than raise money for the causes themselves. I can't remember how many times a co-worker has asked me to pitch-in so they could do the MS-150. Pay the entry yourself, dude, and then I'll give you my $10.

 

[Semper Fidelis]

and WE will remember Lance as a true cad ,,, selfishly running to pad his lifestyle



Are you serious?



So Lance did the 'read my lips' service to Ontario just like he cut out on the hefty contributors that paid to ride with him in Vancouver?

Maybe we can just ask Canada Customs to turn him back next time so he will stop stealing our money.

Would Terry Fox have done a secret run, surrounding himself with only "rich dignataries"?

You have embarrassed Canada with your comparison.

Dave.

Terry Fox is still a Hero to the running communities and local clubs across North America. He never completed his Marathon a day across the country but his Run’s live on today. What a tribute to a person who’s legacy continues long after 1981.

 

[Semper Fidelis]

That's great you paid your own way. More $ left over for the charity.

It's a shame that charities have coached people to raise money for their entry fees rather than raise money for the causes themselves. I can't remember how many times a co-worker has asked me to pitch-in so they could do the MS-150. Pay the entry yourself, dude, and then I'll give you my $10.

JB and I have talked about this before. The MS-150 scheme is one of the worst! They do that year around here at my office. I should start a charity scheme and quit my real job. From the looks of it ....there are plenty of soft targets that are willing to part with real cash for charities with little or no accountability.

BB I like your take on it. "Pay for the entry yourself, Dude"

"The Dude abides Man"

 

[stainlessguy1]

and WE will remember Lance as a true cad ,,, selfishly running to pad his lifestyle



Are you serious?



So Lance did the 'read my lips' service to Ontario just like he cut out on the hefty contributors that paid to ride with him in Vancouver?

Maybe we can just ask Canada Customs to turn him back next time so he will stop stealing our money.

Would Terry Fox have done a secret run, surrounding himself with only "rich dignataries"?

You have embarrassed Canada with your comparison.

Dave.

________________________________________________________

Yes i am serious , cycling has become more main stream and cycling has improved , cycling roads have improved in both paving , width of highway , attitude and all that it needed , because cycling got a boost .
The fellow competitors that are now in wheelchairs or dead , that were good racers and national team members and medal winners .. arent comming back anytime soon .....So i have witnessed to much tragedy all those many years ago i am dead serious .

Also ,, Lance didnt start out this way ,,, he ended this way ,,,, the point remains the same . Everyone has an affect on many others , positive or negative it still has a profound result that somehow was ment to happen . Maybe so we all learn what not to do ,, i dont know yet .

Next thing , i never embarrassed Canada and i am not comparing Terry To Lance .
For one thing ,,, Lance was a pro athlete that raced for money ,,, that was his job ,,, and i guess by the sounds of things the more he could get the better .
Terry raced for his life .... it is a totally different concept .
I mentioned Terry because he was a great man that tried his hardest ( the real face of agony is in Terry's face and eyes) NOt in Lance's suffering up the alps.... but you can now draw your own conclusions . Some how the message isnt really there ...... but you know ,,, no one is forced to pay for a ride with Lance . If the final outcome is really what you all think , then the best weapon we have against greed is not to buy into it . That will stop that right there . ( but people do )
To the question , would Terry have done a secret run ,,,, ? that is a rediculous question .

Maybe i have not expressed myself properly , i am not a writer .

If all you say is true about Lance , then maybe look further up the chain of command .... see who is all involved in the initial cancer bandwagon after his comback . Perhaps the mess goes to a whole new level . I just remember Lance as a bike racer ,,, i guess the almighty buck is a giant persuader .

One of the news stations aired a documentary a while ago , letting the public know just the fact that there were thousands of money raising outfits registered and the resulting money the ceo's made and the net left over to give to the said charity . It will amaze everyone .
These people are all faceless strangers , maybe your neighbours , you never know .
Either way ,,, the idea belongs to Terry as the supreme mascot ... and you still cant kill that idea ...... If Lance jumps on the band wagon and cant follow it up ... eventually the law will catch up with it in one way or the other .( if its illegal ) That has nothing to do with the promotion of cycling to a non cycling nation .
WE still got some benifits from those wins .

 

[BotanyBay]

JB and I have talked about this before. The MS-150 scheme is one of the worst! They do that year around here at my office. I should start a charity scheme and quit my real job. From the looks of it ....there are plenty of soft targets that are willing to part with real cash for charities with little or no accountability.

BB I like your take on it. "Pay for the entry yourself, Dude"

"The Dude abides Man"

Actually, what I dislike more is when the CEO or founder of the company sends an email around, asking us to get behind a specific charity. But curiously, they never mention the donation they're personally giving to set the example. Because they think the real charity is in using their power to motivate US.

So Lance, show us YOUR donations toward the fight to cure cancer. I doubt you give them, as you'd be burning them up in the air rather quickly.