Potential reactions to Armstrong news...

[TexPat]

I thought this thread was titled, " Potential reactions to Armstrong news".
My guess is that a few people would react like this.

http://www.bitstorm.org/happyjoy/

 

[Race Radio]

I thought this thread was titled, " Potential reactions to Armstrong news".
My guess is that a few people would react like this.]

I will be dancing like this

And BontayBay will be working the turn tables.

 

[Neworld]

Excellent Dave.

As another Canadian cyclist I must say that Stainless1 seems to be trying to generate a good discussion but is failing. Stainless please stop.

Also, out of respect for Terry Fox, please never, EVER, speak of him in the any discussion board or blog about Lance. They are complete opposites.

Terry was dying, with such an aggressive form of Osteosarcoma that his end game was clear and non-negotiable. He began his run with palliative metastases. Lance is a liar, makes money lying and doping to win bike races, and lies to the very delicate cohort that he was apart of. How diabolical.

The Terry Fox foundation will last forever and Terry is dead. The LAF will soon fold and LA is still alive.

NW

 

[BotanyBay]

I will be dancing like this

And BontayBay will be working the turn tables.

Playing my favorite tunes, of course! Duck Duck Duck!

Seriously, anyone that doesn't own this album, should.

 

[Neworld]

Seriously, anyone that doesn't own this album, should.


Is that the same M. McLaren who was the manager of the Sex Pistols or am I way off?

NW

 

[sliceofpy]

________________________________________________________
<snip>

cycling has improved , cycling roads have improved in both paving , width of highway , attitude and all that it needed , because cycling got a boost .

<snip>

This is an interesting part of your argument for the overall "Lance Effect," that him winning TdFs has led to more US bike lanes, better pavement, and overall change in attitude. I'm not sure I agree. Most of the changes in US transportation infrastructure were initiated in the early to mid 1990s, pre-1999. Attitudes aren't all that different, either. I got dusted by a diesel last year on my Boulder, CO commute, and was routinely yelled at with "Hey Lance, the tour's over." Even in Portland, where I live now, we still get the occasional barker. I think high gas prices a few years ago really woke people up, lack of jobs, and realization that riding your bike is healthy might have something to do with it.

I think most of the hipster youth currently espousing minimalism and bikes saving the planet could care less about LA, unless he's stalking them on twitter.

 

[oldschoolnik]

Yes, the same one. Quite a character.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/09/arts/music/09mclaren.html

 

[Oldman]

________________________________________________________
<snip>

cycling has improved , cycling roads have improved in both paving , width of highway , attitude and all that it needed , because cycling got a boost .

<snip>

This is an interesting part of your argument for the overall "Lance Effect," that him winning TdFs has led to more US bike lanes, better pavement, and overall change in attitude. I'm not sure I agree. Most of the changes in US transportation infrastructure were initiated in the early to mid 1990s, pre-1999. Attitudes aren't all that different, either. I got dusted by a diesel last year on my Boulder, CO commute, and was routinely yelled at with "Hey Lance, the tour's over." Even in Portland, where I live now, we still get the occasional barker. I think high gas prices a few years ago really woke people up, lack of jobs, and realization that riding your bike is healthy might have something to do with it.

I think most of the hipster youth currently espousing minimalism and bikes saving the planet could care less about LA, unless he's stalking them on twitter.

The hard work that got cycling advocacy recognized in the Pacific NW preceded any serious pro racer from North America and has absolutely nothing to do with Lance Armstrong. NOTHING. It was serious volunteers from tourists to club members/racers. Racing, Olympics or serious atheletics didn't even hit the radar. And you're right: most of them could care less about LA.

 

[D-Queued]

Since we are on the topic of bike lanes, trails, etc., the work I did with my buddies on MTB trails in Los Angeles had nothing to do with Pharmstrong either.

And, on the subject of cycling charities, having set one up myself, our biggest concern was the potential backlash from Lance being the poster child of doping.

Dave.

 

[Oldman]

I will add that as bike transportation access improvement and awareness goes, Lance has a better chance of convincing the world he actually cured Cancer than persuading cycling and green advocates he had a positive impact on their chosen causes. They aren't stupid and his Gulfstream and Escalade don't go unnoticed. That, plus he would be the first to admit he doesn't really give a sh*t. He just wants the adulation and the power that comes with it.

 

[Granville57]

Well havent we all stumbled on a touchy subject here.

Actually, you seem to be the only one stumbling.

But OK. I'll take the bait. I’ll play.
I usually don’t bother but I guess you caught me in a mood. The added bonus to me is that I only have to do this once and then I can just quote myself in the future as need be.

Lance Armstrong was a hero, a hero of his day as he changed the way cycling is looked at in North America.

Was. I’ll give you the past tense there. You can have that one.

The Big picture [as you call it] comes in as the hope he generated across North America through his plight and recovery and victories and his becoming a household name everywhere . IN so doing , Cycling was put on the map in a generally Car dominated society where cyclists were mocked and ridiculed for years and years.

We have gained new interest in a mode of transportation for all new comers . Through Lances efforts in his 7 time tdf wins...North Americans have opened their eyes.

This is a complete distortion of reality. Stop it.
I am a “North American” and I would dispute everything your are saying. First off, don’t speak for me. I grew up in the U.S. and Canada. Don’t speak for me.

Let me share a little story in order to demonstrate just how completely absurd your perspective is.

When I was very young my dad bought me a bicycle. He had one, my mom had one, my sister had one...and every single kid in our neighborhood had one. We rode to school, we rode to the store, we rode to our friends. We experienced the sheer joy and exhilaration of riding a bike. Everyone I knew had a bike. They could be found everywhere. And surprisingly we all knew what they were called (bicycles) and how they could be used.

Also, when I was very young I learned that my mother had lost her mom to cancer in the form of a brain tumor. Before I was a teenager I knew of two kids in town that had cancer. One of them died.

As shocking and revelatory as this may sound, all the previously mentioned events happened, quite literally, before Lance (Gunderson) Armstrong was even born. Imagine that. I was aware of both cycling and cancer before Lance even existed.

I’ve no idea as to what "Big Picture" you are fantasizing about here.
Perhaps you were thinking more along the lines of Professional Cycling:

So now, i think its time to stop Lance bashing, because its the idea that he made history and a first for North America and a first for rallying cycling again in the hearts and minds of the average person. A first that he finished the multiple tours in First by a North American. The Idea is launched, North Americans can do it too .. the idea now stands Not just with Greg Lemond and his victories and other great north American Cyclists but over and over.

Besides the fact that one can hardly make any rational sense out of the above statement, it almost rings like the conveniently deceptive line that Lance himself puts out there when he says that he was, “the first American, on an American-made bike, on an American team, to win the TdF.” Sure, OK. Congratulations, Lance.

However, your ridiculous line that, "he finished the multiple tours in First by a North American," is an absolute lie. There is no truth to that hacked-up statement whatsoever.

"Not just with Greg Lemond," you say? Only with Greg Lemond do we have The first North American to win multiple Tours. You carelessly (and perhaps deliberately) jumble the facts as if they were but letters in a game of scrabble. Mix ‘em up! Rearrange them! Change history while you’re at it!

YOU cant kill an idea . So now North Americans know.... and they know they no longer need to fear the bicycle.

Have you any idea how long bicycles have been around in North America? Who was afraid of them?

There is a benefit that we all enjoy as riders since Lance has finalized the mark of a Seven time tdf champion. That benefit is we have finally become recognized in a car dominated society.

It could easily be argued that Lance's arrogance and celebrity-dating lifestyle actually increased the animosity of drivers towards cyclists. They see us, they think of him, they hate us all the more. "Lance Armstrong wannabes" is not compliment, by the way.

There is NOT a single person doesn’t know someone relative or stranger that is struggling or dying of cancer.

I’ll give you that one as well. You took the words right out of my mouth. So why is it we need Lance, Livestrong, Nike, Trek, RadioShack, Michelob, Nissan, FRS, Versus or any other entity to make us aware?

Funny how just one sentence of yours negated all the others.

 

[jimbob_in_co]

And, on the subject of cycling charities, having set one up myself, our biggest concern was the potential backlash from Lance being the poster child of doping.

Dave.

Amen Dave, Amen. I've been there and done that. You wince when people comeback at you criticizing Armstrong and his actions just because they know you: a) are a cyclists, b) very involved with fund raising for charities (even with the LAF in the past), and c) have been directly affected by cancer. For some reason a few people thought I had the phone numbers of some big wigs 'on speed dial'. They decide that b*tching at me might bring about some change.

Those events reminded me of the old saying 'no good deed goes unpunished'.

 

[TheMight]

I will add that as bike transportation access improvement and awareness goes, Lance has a better chance of convincing the world he actually cured Cancer than persuading cycling and green advocates he had a positive impact on their chosen causes. They aren't stupid and his Gulfstream and Escalade don't go unnoticed. That, plus he would be the first to admit he doesn't really give a sh*t. He just wants the adulation and the power that comes with it.

Of course LA didn't invent cycling and he certainly didn't invent bike lanes or even "Ride to work day" (and I'm no LA apologist by any stretch) but he's had an impact on that stuff.

I don't know how to measure it, but I know it exists. Explain to me how Trek and other sponsors would invest what they do for the impact he has on their businesses and how he wouldn't impact public policy? Plus, we live in a very competitive country where popular national elections are decided within a couple percentage points (everyone has the same polling data, why wouldn't the elections be close?) I would think that someone like LA, if he could bring a tiny handful of people's attention to an issue that could potentially make up that few percentage difference and make a real impact.

As for the effects? It'll be similar to everything else, him leaving the sport will result in a decline in the sport. Nobody is going to hold him accountable for anything though, it'll be old news by the time it's revealed. The masses won't care.


BTW, DPF is back.

 

[BotanyBay]

Seriously, anyone that doesn't own this album, should.


Is that the same M. McLaren who was the manager of the Sex Pistols or am I way off?

NW

He is one and the same. While rap / hip-hop was already well on its way in the USA, Malcolm had been paying close attention to it, and decided to get involved. He linked-up with the these guys:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=18bkvJRK7rw

And Trevor Horn (Art of Noise)

...and created a spectacular album that deeply explored the historical influences and connections behind hip-hop. The album is called Duck Rock, and it's now mostly an obscure masterpiece.

And wow, you can download it in MP3 format for $7.99. I'm sure I paid more than that in 1983!

http://www.amazon.com/Duck-Rock/dp/B0015PXF8S/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1294241310&sr=8-1

 

[VeloCity]

_______________________________________________________________

The right man at the right time doing something he never thought he would

, anytime one becomes a patient one literally gets himself on the human test subject list of experimental anything . So that means some doctor gets to practice medicine on you .....
Together him being an athlete and a cancer patient it set the stage for what is most liked in North America . ( A hero and an ablilty to raise money for something, a great North American tradition )

The Big picture comes in as the hope he generated across North America through his plight and recovery and victories and his becoming a household name everywhere . IN so doing , Cycling was put on the map in a generally Car dominated society where cyclists were mocked and ridiculed for years and years .

Along with cancer patients like Terry Fox , and the famous Terry fox run , which is held in numerous places now annually . We have gained new interest in a mode of transportation for all new comers . Through Lances efforts in his 7 time tdf wins ... North Americans have opened their eyes .
WE have now numerous rides and runs , lasting for days , with camp outs and almost stage race like events held to raise money for cancer . Complete with matching jerseys for tens of thousands of riders and the numbers of participants are growing . They are growing so much that they are making teams and giving themselves names and comming together year after year for these types of events .

The cancer patients , that watched and prayed that whatever Lance was given to speed his cure and continue his epic journey must have given many that were laying in their beds, tears of hope . Maybe this time its enough . Maybe this time there is a breakthrough .

I suppose that many of you that wrote , as to the doping , yes well i guess that thought didnt cross the mind at all at the time , because we looked at Lance and said ,,,, there is a soldier , sacrificing his body , unbeknowing to him what the outcome will be later . WE all cheered him on .

So now , i think its time to stop Lance bashing , because its the idea that he made history and a first for North America and a first for rallying cycling again in the hearts and minds of the average person . A first that he finished the multiple tours in First by a North American . The Idea is launched , North Americans can do it too .. the idea now stands Not just with Greg Lemond and his victories and other great north American Cyclists but over and over .
YOU cant kill an idea . So now North Americans know .... and they know they no longer need to fear the bicycle .

Now i ask all you fellow cyclists to shed some light on all the narrow minded ideology we all are caught up in and ask yourself .... There is a benefit that we all enjoy as riders since Lance has finalized the mark of a Seven time tdf champion . That benefit is we have finally become recognized in a car dominated society . There is NOT a single person doesnt know someone relative or stranger that is struggling or dying of cancer . Lance's personal struggle gave us all hope .

So what happens now , I suppose its how a champion conducts himself and what he does with the capabilities he is given and the advisors he might be with . ..... Remember you cant kill an Idea .

so best of luck Lance ,,, and thanks .

so a guy who survives cancer only to go on to illegally abuse medical products - the long-term health effects of which are unknown, hell they could increase the risk of cancer for all anyone knows - all for the sake of winning bike races and becoming rich and famous is someone to thank for being a good role model for cancer patients? That'd be like idolizing someone for overcoming heroin addiction while secretly he's doing meth on the side.

And don't even think about putting Armstrong in the same sentence as Terry Fox.

 

[flicker]

Since we are on the topic of bike lanes, trails, etc., the work I did with my buddies on MTB trails in Los Angeles had nothing to do with Pharmstrong either.

And, on the subject of cycling charities, having set one up myself, our biggest concern was the potential backlash from Lance being the poster child of doping.

Dave.

As far as riding to work, recreational rides, touring, training, racing everyone needs to do their part in promoting cycling, being a spokesman for cycling, sharing the road, being courteous to fellow cyclists, pedestrians, and motorists.

I do not know why there is not more emphasis on courtesy and sharing the road on cyclists part. As someone who has raced and someone who tries to be a spokesman for cycling I am flabergasted by the fixie riders who ride around pedestrians on mixed use trails and large groups of cyclists backing up traffic. I have been run off the road, which is not a nice fealing, but cell phones make it easy to call the cops and report the offender. On the other hand as a motorist I do not appreciate people blocking the road at 5 mph, riders running stop signs and expecting me to stop or riders wearing black at night in the rain or fog with no reflectors or lights. We all need to do our part for safety.

 

[stainlessguy1]

________________________________________________________
<snip>

cycling has improved , cycling roads have improved in both paving , width of highway , attitude and all that it needed , because cycling got a boost .

<snip>

This is an interesting part of your argument for the overall "Lance Effect," that him winning TdFs has led to more US bike lanes, better pavement, and overall change in attitude. I'm not sure I agree. Most of the changes in US transportation infrastructure were initiated in the early to mid 1990s, pre-1999. Attitudes aren't all that different, either. I got dusted by a diesel last year on my Boulder, CO commute, and was routinely yelled at with "Hey Lance, the tour's over." Even in Portland, where I live now, we still get the occasional barker. I think high gas prices a few years ago really woke people up, lack of jobs, and realization that riding your bike is healthy might have something to do with it.

I think most of the hipster youth currently espousing minimalism and bikes saving the planet could care less about LA, unless he's stalking them on twitter.

___________________________________________________________


Yes Sir , well written . The economy has a lot to do with the fact people are giving cycling a try . I was called lance many times , here in Canada on just training rides with exactly those words ... Hey Lance the tour is over .
This was still years ago before all his string of victories . However , it does show us that people were watching , the tour was popular ,and everyone pretty much had the super sports channels that allow for full coverage of such events . So , There may be a very small hint that a north american was leading the tour time and time again . My guess is that more people tune in to sports events when one of your own countrymen is in the lead , then when it is european dominated like before the days of Greg and company .

With all the people that watched the tour , i am sure there were intelligent people with university degrees that dont hang out the window making **** headed comments to riders in training .
I am sure , there were people that although stunned and miffed , saw the awesome distance that the athletes covered in around or under 7 hours .
I am sure many said hey i would like to give it a try .
I know for a fact that many did , right across America and right into the snowy hills of Canada . I know most bought thousands of dollars with of bicycle that surpases my own steel donkey that i still ride with strap pedals .
Talking to these average hockey players and they tell me they love it and are riding every year to enhance their skating and overall strength and speed , tells me lots about what good media coverage can do to pursuade people to give it a try .
No person , at least not an average person will tune into a sports show if there is not representative from their own country , state , etc . So that would be my version of the Lance Effect .

I know many people , racers , Xracers with a great education and great cycling backgrounds even if they werent racers , that are now in planning deptments for major cities , and the planners are planning with cycle lanes in mind as apposed to what we had before . From these days forward , cycle lanes are in the concept . A major victory for sanity . These types of changes dont happen overnight in big or medium cities ,, in fact for the most part, once started, average projects can last for 3 to 10 years and some will connect up to projects that will never be finished in our life time .
We only get this if we have a steady increase in cyclists a steady increase in numbers , no city will put down pavement if there is no need for it .

Whether it be the energy crises of the 70"s OR the depression of what was made in the western world boondoggle ( releasing companies to make it in china and killing our made in america spirit ) or the fact that several North American cyclists were in the lime-light that it finally made a difference . The effect remains , it just took an awfully long time .

 

[sliceofpy]

Of course LA didn't invent cycling and he certainly didn't invent bike lanes or even "Ride to work day" (and I'm no LA apologist by any stretch) but he's had an impact on that stuff.

I don't know how to measure it, but I know it exists. Explain to me how Trek and other sponsors would invest what they do for the impact he has on their businesses and how he wouldn't impact public policy? Plus, we live in a very competitive country where popular national elections are decided within a couple percentage points (everyone has the same polling data, why wouldn't the elections be close?) I would think that someone like LA, if he could bring a tiny handful of people's attention to an issue that could potentially make up that few percentage difference and make a real impact.

Sure, but you don't really need a Madone to ride your bike to work right? I guess my issue with the OP was that LA was somehow responsible for the hard work of others on the advocacy front... something that parallels the issues many have with "raising awareness" about other things like cancer. He might have helped put it on the radar for some people, but now the fanboys want to want to give him all the credit for it. I call BS. I'm not convinced that more people are riding NOW because of him. Of course, in the early 00's, tons of people bought Treks, but I would bet that more people are riding now because they realize its other benefits.

 

[BotanyBay]

As for the effects? It'll be similar to everything else, him leaving the sport will result in a decline in the sport.

I first took-up the sport when it was in "decline". Actually, it was in the doldrums. And I have to say, those were the true golden days.

Back then, I thought of it as an annoyance that I had to explain to my parents why the riders did not always ride their hardest or fastest, trying to stay ahead as if it were stock-car racing.

But right now, I'd be happy to return to those simpler times. When the only ones who cared about bike racing were bike racers.

Today, we might have hundreds of US pros who earn $20k per year being "Pros", but they still live in poverty, just like the majority of top domestic amateurs did "back in the day". So what's really changed for the better anyway?

So cycling, go ahead and "decline". At least then we'll know who our real friends are.

 

[stainlessguy1]

Since we are on the topic of bike lanes, trails, etc., the work I did with my buddies on MTB trails in Los Angeles had nothing to do with Pharmstrong either.

And, on the subject of cycling charities, having set one up myself, our biggest concern was the potential backlash from Lance being the poster child of doping.

Dave.

All pro teams around the world have doping issues , and not just cycling .. ...hockey , football , baseball , basketball the list goes on.
Having to deal with doping isnt going to stop me from joining a fund raising ride if i have the time . All my friends ride and enjoy the ride all without dope or worries of dopeheads in the pro ranks or old masters trying to dope to relieve a past life . NO one has ever called us dope heads because we ride a bike .
I have never worried or seen a negative issue about Lance creating an effect regarding doping during fund raising for the groups that we have witnessed doing their fund raising .
During these local fund raising rides ,,, there is not even a Lance presence .
People Ride , have fun , raise some money and show the shear numbers of cyclists that now exist .

 

[stainlessguy1]

I first took-up the sport when it was in "decline". Actually, it was in the doldrums. And I have to say, those were the true golden days.

Back then, I thought of it as an annoyance that I had to explain to my parents why the riders did not always ride their hardest or fastest, trying to stay ahead as if it were stock-car racing.

But right now, I'd be happy to return to those simpler times. When the only ones who cared about bike racing were bike racers.

Today, we might have hundreds of US pros who earn $20k per year being "Pros", but they still live in poverty, just like the majority of top domestic amateurs did "back in the day". So what's really changed for the better anyway?

So cycling, go ahead and "decline". At least then we'll know who our real friends are.

_______________________________________________________________

Cycling will not decline .There are lots of old pros that still love the sport and lots of old ( us guys that were almost pros , even if only in our dreams ) , that will continue to coach and teach the traditions of ( even if its only basic cycling , and how to sit on a bike etc. )
The population on the planet wont decline ,, so its safe to say ,,, cycling might be more of a life saver than first thought .

 

[stainlessguy1]

Sure, but you don't really need a Madone to ride your bike to work right? I guess my issue with the OP was that LA was somehow responsible for the hard work of others on the advocacy front... something that parallels the issues many have with "raising awareness" about other things like cancer. He might have helped put it on the radar for some people, but now the fanboys want to want to give him all the credit for it. I call BS. I'm not convinced that more people are riding NOW because of him. Of course, in the early 00's, tons of people bought Treks, but I would bet that more people are riding now because they realize its other benefits.

____________________________________________________________

Thats all we ask , once hooked , you see the benifits , you ride because you love it ....... man thats what we asked for . One more person that gives a peleton in training a wider birth .

 

[BotanyBay]

_______________________________________________________________

Cycling will not decline .There are lots of old pros that still love the sport and lots of old ( us guys that were almost pros , even if only in our dreams ) , that will continue to coach and teach the traditions of ( even if its only basic cycling , and how to sit on a bike etc. )
The population on the planet wont decline ,, so its safe to say ,,, cycling might be more of a life saver than first thought .

Look at the "fixie" and "cruiser" trends. Whoever would have predicted that non-racers would voluntarily ride a track bike on the road? No way that cycling will really decline.

Does anyone really think that NASCAR was an "ascent"?

 

[sliceofpy]

As far as riding to work, recreational rides, touring, training, racing everyone needs to do their part in promoting cycling, being a spokesman for cycling, sharing the road, being courteous to fellow cyclists, pedestrians, and motorists.

I do not know why there is not more emphasis on courtesy and sharing the road on cyclists part. As someone who has raced and someone who tries to be a spokesman for cycling I am flabergasted by the fixie riders who ride around pedestrians on mixed use trails and large groups of cyclists backing up traffic. I have been run off the road, which is not a nice fealing, but cell phones make it easy to call the cops and report the offender. On the other hand as a motorist I do not appreciate people blocking the road at 5 mph, riders running stop signs and expecting me to stop or riders wearing black at night in the rain or fog with no reflectors or lights. We all need to do our part for safety.

Maybe there is a "Lance Effect" afterall!

 

[stainlessguy1]

As far as riding to work, recreational rides, touring, training, racing everyone needs to do their part in promoting cycling, being a spokesman for cycling, sharing the road, being courteous to fellow cyclists, pedestrians, and motorists.

I do not know why there is not more emphasis on courtesy and sharing the road on cyclists part. As someone who has raced and someone who tries to be a spokesman for cycling I am flabergasted by the fixie riders who ride around pedestrians on mixed use trails and large groups of cyclists backing up traffic. I have been run off the road, which is not a nice fealing, but cell phones make it easy to call the cops and report the offender. On the other hand as a motorist I do not appreciate people blocking the road at 5 mph, riders running stop signs and expecting me to stop or riders wearing black at night in the rain or fog with no reflectors or lights. We all need to do our part for safety.

______________________________________________________________

well written , and i agree ,,, we are still all ambassadors to what is still not as widely accepted as a means of transportation . WE have to keep doing our part , and for the most part , riders in training in the city , please use the stop and red lights to actually stop ....... Once in the country , you can ride all out , where there is not traffic congestion or stops .
Pick your training circuits carefully for group rides ,,, obey the traffic laws in groups or as a single rider . Some one is always watching .