Are you saying he can pedal more watts at altitude, or that the delta between his sea level and altitude performances is lower?
I haven't seen evidence of the latter but we haven't seen prime Quintana et al head to head with Vingo.
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I haven't seen evidence of the latter but we haven't seen prime Quintana et al head to head with Vingo.
What vingegaard did on granon is better than what quintana and bernal did (for example on iseran stage) in his careers at altitude. Actually, the performance of quintana on granon was really good.
Even in tour france 2021 at col du portet, Vingegaard beat quintana's(from 2018) record on that climb.
Sure, but this is not very interesting. It's obvious that Vingo is a better rider than Quintana. The question is whether Vingo is relatively better than his peers at altitude --- i.e. what factor we'd have to adjust his altitude performances to get a comparable power figure for sea level.
I think the claim is more about absolute terms. The general vibe has still been that the Colombians are at least equal to the best at high altitude when at their best, like when MAL does a demolition.
View: https://twitter.com/faustocoppi60/status/1676698579727941632?t=hk9Q7zoG7SZCZpKa_TSW-g&s=19
Anybody wanna estimate the w/kg?
Anybody wanna estimate the w/kg?
But but but they are all clean and the riders of the 90s and 00s are the only ones that ever doped.
Col du Tourmalet (last 12.35 km, 8.85 %, 1093 m):
2023:
36'52'' Vingegaard, Pogačar (VAM = 1779 m/h, [Dr.F] = 6.17 W/kg)
38'02'' Kuss
38'32'' Bardet
2003:
38'42'' Armstrong, Ullrich, Zubeldia, Mayo
If I have the segment right. It was a very uneven pace, only going supersonic once Kelderman took over.
2023:
36'52'' Vingegaard, Pogačar (VAM = 1779 m/h, [Dr.F] = 6.17 W/kg)
38'02'' Kuss
38'32'' Bardet
2003:
38'42'' Armstrong, Ullrich, Zubeldia, Mayo
If I have the segment right. It was a very uneven pace, only going supersonic once Kelderman took over.
Basically like Vingegaard on Granon 2022 despite Granon being higher, the final climb after an insane day, and basically everyone being better in 2023.
Estimates have them doing 6.8 W/kg for the final 13'30 roughly.
6.7 was using Ferarri's formula I believe, though yesterdays stage was harder than that one was, that stage in 2009 was basically perfect for an insane W/KG like Lo Port this year.
The guy's who estimated Vingegaard's performance here had Contador's Verbier at 7.2W/KG, Lemond outright said he didn't believe Alberto was clean after the stage.
I heard they might've gone faster than Rominger(?) on Tourmalet today, this wasn't a bad day for Vingegaard at all just a great recovery from Pogacar.
Edit: Not Jalabert
Here is Fignon's account of the 1993 Tour when the record was set
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ammattipyoraily calculated 6.72 w/kg for contador on verbier.
Yep, they took the record today on Tourmalet from Rominger. Unfortunately, most historical times are only for the full ascent, not from Gripp.
Long climbs get *** annoying this way especially when the first section is like 4-5%.
Honestly a reference that does make sense to me is that Schleck and Contador did like 6.0 W/kg on the west side of Tourmalet in 2010
The Verbier numbers when I calculated them were as follows (I had to dig for these files):
The most likely scenario was 6.7 w/kg. The VAM formula was calculted at 6.9 w/kg. I do not remember the difference at that moment. It looks like yesterday they were higher on Marie Blanque
| Forecast values | ||
| P100 | 6.26 | |
| P90 | 6.42 | |
| P80 | 6.48 | |
| P70 | 6.54 | |
| P60 | 6.60 | |
| P50 | 6.67 | |
| P40 | 6.75 | |
| P30 | 6.83 | |
| P20 | 6.91 | |
| P10 | 7.00 | |
| P0 | 7.23 |
The most likely scenario was 6.7 w/kg. The VAM formula was calculted at 6.9 w/kg. I do not remember the difference at that moment. It looks like yesterday they were higher on Marie Blanque
They are just stone grinding their tires. Nothing to see here, move on.
Interesting read, also reminded me of the comments from some riders last year, like Thomas De Gendt talking about trying to ride as he'd always done, with numbers still around his best, yet instead of getting in breakaways he was being spat out the back of the peloton. As if the sport had passed him by and there was no longer a place for him. Very similar sentiments, it seems.Here is Fignon's account of the 1993 Tour when the record was set
Thanks, for some reason I had in my records the VAM for Verbier at 6.9 w/kg. Not sure why. But if you have 6.7 that is very much aligned with the energy formula that I usually use.
To be honest I just don't understand people who were outraged by Verbiers climb. He'd get like 3rd today and nobody would ask questions about the #1 and #2.
We are now at the point where only 1994-1999 are faster. And who knows where it stops?!
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