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Power Data Estimates for the climbing stages

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Mar 18, 2009
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Le breton said:
Are you going to tell us that you have privileged information that you are not allowing yourself to divulge.

Yes, I have privileged information that I cannot divulge.

Le breton said:
Besides, how are we going to know that the powermeter was well calibrated, etc.?

No guarantee, obviously, but I trust that the source of my information would insist that this detail not be overlooked.

Le breton said:
the only real source of error is drafting estimate and CdA while climbing.
But the total air resistance represents only 8% for a lone climber, so that it seems impossible to overestimate the total power by more than about 2%

You seem to be assuming that there was no wind, when in fact there was ("I was at hairpin #1 and I can confirm that the wind was pretty annoying, pushing clouds downwards").
 
May 23, 2010
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acoggan said:
Yes, I have privileged information that I cannot divulge.

No guarantee, obviously, but I trust that the source of my information would insist that this detail not be overlooked.

You seem to be assuming that there was no wind, when in fact there was ("I was at hairpin #1 and I can confirm that the wind was pretty annoying, pushing clouds downwards").

Way to obfuscate a reasonable discussion where numbers do the talking - and all participants say "it's just another data point". But this seems not good enough of a qualification to you. Depending on the argument, you either:

- say there are too many variables to trust the result (at all - or your "+/- 5%")
- you have information that proves the calculation is incorrect but you cannot share it

Especially the latter is teenage-like behavior. We're supposed to take you on your word? We could all be making such claims which would make this debate just dumb.
 
Mar 18, 2009
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Tubeless said:
- you have information that proves the calculation is incorrect but you cannot share it

Apparently I wasn't clear: I have information, which ethically I cannot share, that is consistent with other data in the public domain indicating that such estimates are generally accurate to w/in only +/- about 5%.

You can either choose to believe me or not, but in any case I encourage you to examine all of the analyses that have been put forth in which said estimates have been compared against directly-measured power outputs and draw your own conclusions.

EDIT: I would also point out that it isn't as if I dredged up this old thread just to throw fuel on a fire. I posed the question to which Le breton kindly responded quite some time ago; it just took a while for an answer to surface.
 
Jun 25, 2009
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tobsie said:
Any numbers on Contador and Michael Rasmussen from the col d'aubisque climb in 07?
Tour 2007, Stage 16, Col d'Aubisque ( Distance 16.6 km, Grade 7.17 %, Elevation 1190 m )

Rasmussen: Time 43:02, Speed 23.14 Kph, VAM 1699 m/h, 6.25 w/kg
Contador: Time 43:37, Speed 22.84 Kph, VAM 1637 m/h, 6.01 w/kg
 
acoggan said:
Yes, I have privileged information that I cannot divulge.



No guarantee, obviously, but I trust that the source of my information would insist that this detail not be overlooked.



You seem to be assuming that there was no wind, when in fact there was ("I was at hairpin #1 and I can confirm that the wind was pretty annoying, pushing clouds downwards").

"I was at hairpin #1 and I can confirm that the wind was pretty annoying, pushing clouds downwards"

That quote is from myself! The wind in the higher elevations is the reason FP only considered the first 7.5 km of the climb or so.

When i left hairpin#1 before the last racers went by, I was getting cold because of drifting fog and wind, but further down I warmed up and did not notice the wind anymore, of course that was 1h+ after contador had gone by.
Anyway, when there is wind in the area, you don't usually feel it much going up until you reach the hairpin at 1553 meters.
 
Mar 18, 2009
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Le breton said:
"I was at hairpin #1 and I can confirm that the wind was pretty annoying, pushing clouds downwards"

That quote is from myself!

I know (you seemed to be looking for reasons as to why Portoleau might have overestimated the power requirement; I was just pointing out why he could have also underestimated it).

In any case, when it comes to obtaining really precise estimates of CdA or power, "wind is thine enemy".
 
Jun 25, 2009
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Vuelta a Espana 2010, Stage 8, Alto Xorret del Cati ( Distance 3.8 km, Grade 11.58 %, Elevation 440 m )

Nibali, Anton, Rodriguez: Time 13:27, Speed 16.96 Kph, VAM 1963 m/h, 6.30 w/kg
Moncoutie (stage winner): Time 14:27, Speed 15.78 Kph, VAM 1827 m/h, 5.86 w/kg

I don't know what is the record time of the climb.
 
Jun 25, 2009
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Vuelta a Espana 2010, Stage 11, Vallnord Sector Pal ( Distance 10.0 km, Grade 6.55 %, Elevation 655 m )

Anton: Time 23:24, Speed 25.64 Kph, VAM 1679 m/h, 6.33 w/kg
Mosquera: Time 23:27, Speed 25.59 Kph, VAM 1676 m/h, 6.31 w/kg
Tondo: Time 23:34, Speed 25.46 Kph, VAM 1668 m/h, 6.28 w/kg
Bruseghin, Uran: Time 23:39, Speed 25.37 Kph, VAM 1662 m/h, 6.26 w/kg
Nibali, F Schleck, Moncoutie: Time 23:47, Speed 25.22 Kph, VAM 1652 m/h, 6.22 w/kg
Cuesta, Sastre: Time 23:56, Speed 25.07 Kph, VAM 1642 m/h, 6.18 w/kg
 
halamala said:
Vuelta a Espana 2010, Stage 11, Vallnord Sector Pal ( Distance 10.0 km, Grade 6.55 %, Elevation 655 m )

Anton: Time 23:24, Speed 25.64 Kph, VAM 1679 m/h, 6.33 w/kg
Mosquera: Time 23:27, Speed 25.59 Kph, VAM 1676 m/h, 6.31 w/kg
Tondo: Time 23:34, Speed 25.46 Kph, VAM 1668 m/h, 6.28 w/kg
Bruseghin, Uran: Time 23:39, Speed 25.37 Kph, VAM 1662 m/h, 6.26 w/kg
Nibali, F Schleck, Moncoutie: Time 23:47, Speed 25.22 Kph, VAM 1652 m/h, 6.22 w/kg
Cuesta, Sastre: Time 23:56, Speed 25.07 Kph, VAM 1642 m/h, 6.18 w/kg

MINUS SIDE : those riders are very close in times, so that most must have been drafting, did you take that into account?
PLUS SIDE : is this section between 1245 and 1900m? Did you correct for altitude?

was there wind, up draft?

Thanx
 
Jun 25, 2009
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Vuelta a Espana 2010, Stage 16, Alto de Cotobello ( last 10.0 km, Grade 8.13 %, Elevation 813 m )

F. Schleck : Time 28:56, Speed 20.74 Kph, VAM 1686 m/h, 5.99 w/kg
Rodriguez : Time 29:12, Speed 20.55 Kph, VAM 1671 m/h, 5.94 w/kg
Mosquera : Time 29:30, Speed 20.34 Kph, VAM 1654 m/h, 5.88 w/kg
Garcia Dapena : Time 29:32, Speed 20.32 Kph, VAM 1652 m/h, 5.87 w/kg
Roche : Time 29:34, Speed 20.29 Kph, VAM 1650 m/h, 5.87 w/kg
Sastre : Time 29:40, Speed 20.22 Kph, VAM 1644 m/h, 5.85 w/kg
Nibali : Time 29:49, Speed 20.12 Kph, VAM 1636 m/h, 5.82 w/kg

Stage winner
Nieve : Time 30:23, Speed 19.75 Kph, VAM 1605 m/h, 5.71 w/kg
 
Aug 10, 2009
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halamala said:
Vuelta a Espana 2010, Stage 16, Alto de Cotobello ( last 10.0 km, Grade 8.13 %, Elevation 813 m )

F. Schleck : Time 28:56, Speed 20.74 Kph, VAM 1686 m/h, 5.99 w/kg
Rodriguez : Time 29:12, Speed 20.55 Kph, VAM 1671 m/h, 5.94 w/kg
Mosquera : Time 29:30, Speed 20.34 Kph, VAM 1654 m/h, 5.88 w/kg
Garcia Dapena : Time 29:32, Speed 20.32 Kph, VAM 1652 m/h, 5.87 w/kg
Roche : Time 29:34, Speed 20.29 Kph, VAM 1650 m/h, 5.87 w/kg
Sastre : Time 29:40, Speed 20.22 Kph, VAM 1644 m/h, 5.85 w/kg
Nibali : Time 29:49, Speed 20.12 Kph, VAM 1636 m/h, 5.82 w/kg

Stage winner
Nieve : Time 30:23, Speed 19.75 Kph, VAM 1605 m/h, 5.71 w/kg

Great job posting, dude :) Do you time the climbs yourself?
 
DAOTEC said:
...

The Colombian has swallowed the mountain with 5.87 W/kg, rising the Risoul (12.6 km at 7%) on Sunday, finishing 47 sec ahead of Andrew Talansky.

"Quintana (20) should quickly show his qualities as a professional climber, especially since this his just his in his second year of the Espiors," concludes Pinot, a doctoral student in the Fac Staps Besancon.

According to the same estimates (calculated on a standard weight of 70kg with equipment 8kg), eight competitors of the Tour de l'Avenir has surpassed the 5.4 W/kg.
This is from the Tour de L'avenir
 
Correction to previous data

DAOTEC said:
Wednesday, September 15, 2010 |(21:42) Tour de l'Avenir: power calculs
tableau.jpg


...
If you want real power get your gross, to say the power that you have obtained with a power sensor:
1 / Multiply by 70 the power in W / kg
2 / Divide the wattage (W) you find 70 to the power 0.79
3 / Multiply this figure by your weight to the power strip 0.79 (assuming that the weight of your gear and bike clothing is 8kg, if not add to your weight).

...
This is what kills me about the information. This is normalized data. The actual translated results are as follows:

1- Quintana: 354 Watts, 6.1 Watts/Kg
3- Pantano: 352 Watts, 5.8 Watts/Kg

So Quintana's numbers are actually very impressive.:)

I could not do the calculation for Talansky because I don’t have his weight.
 
May 13, 2009
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halamala said:
Vuelta a Espana 2010, Stage 16, Alto de Cotobello ( last 10.0 km, Grade 8.13 %, Elevation 813 m )

F. Schleck : Time 28:56, Speed 20.74 Kph, VAM 1686 m/h, 5.99 w/kg
Rodriguez : Time 29:12, Speed 20.55 Kph, VAM 1671 m/h, 5.94 w/kg
Mosquera : Time 29:30, Speed 20.34 Kph, VAM 1654 m/h, 5.88 w/kg
Garcia Dapena : Time 29:32, Speed 20.32 Kph, VAM 1652 m/h, 5.87 w/kg
Roche : Time 29:34, Speed 20.29 Kph, VAM 1650 m/h, 5.87 w/kg
Sastre : Time 29:40, Speed 20.22 Kph, VAM 1644 m/h, 5.85 w/kg
Nibali : Time 29:49, Speed 20.12 Kph, VAM 1636 m/h, 5.82 w/kg

Stage winner
Nieve : Time 30:23, Speed 19.75 Kph, VAM 1605 m/h, 5.71 w/kg

Wow, Nieve outputting 5.7 W/kg after being part of the breakaway, pretty impressive.

Thanks for the numbers, gotta love numbers, stats etc .:D
 
Escarabajo said:
This is what kills me about the information. This is normalized data. The actual translated results are as follows:

1- Quintana: 354 Watts, 6.1 Watts/Kg
3- Pantano: 352 Watts, 5.8 Watts/Kg

So Quintana's numbers are actually very impressive.:)

I could not do the calculation for Talansky because I don’t have his weight.
After a weight correction made by Ryo I have Quintana with following new numbers:

1- Quintana: 335 Watts, 6.2 watts/kg.

So it is slightly better. Of course you would expect a high power to weight ratio for such a small guy like Quintana.:)

In la Vuelta in the second week of racing most of GT contenders are hanging around 6.3 Watts/kg. So it is very close.
 
Jun 25, 2009
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Escarabajo said:
This is what kills me about the information. This is normalized data. The actual translated results are as follows:

1- Quintana: 354 Watts, 6.1 Watts/Kg
3- Pantano: 352 Watts, 5.8 Watts/Kg

So Quintana's numbers are actually very impressive.:)

I could not do the calculation for Talansky because I don’t have his weight.
Criterium du Dauphine 2010, Stage 4, Risoul ( Distance 12.8 km, Grade 7.0 %, Elevation 896 m )

Brajkovic & Contador : Time 34:33, Speed 22.23 Kph, VAM 1556 m/h, 5.76 w/kg
 
Jun 25, 2009
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Contador climbed nearly 7.0 W/kg

Alberto Contador

Volta ao Algarve 2011, Stage 3, Final Climb, Alto do Malhão

Elevation / Höhenmeter [m] : 227 m
Distance / Streckenlänge [Km] : 2.4 Km
Time in seconds / Fahrzeit in Sekunden [sec] : 427 = 7 min 7 sec = 7.07
Weight rider / Gewicht Fahrer [kg] : 62 kg
Weight bicycle, clothes etc. / Gewicht Fahrrad [kg] : 8 kg

Grade / mittlere Seigung : 9.4 %
Average speed / mittlere Geschwindigkeit : 20.2 Km/h
Total weight / Gesamtgewicht : 70.0 kg

Power : 428.0 Watt
Power / kg : 6.9 Watt / kg

Source: [ http://www.rst.mp-all.de/bergauf.htm ]
 
halamala said:
Alberto Contador

Volta ao Algarve 2011, Stage 3, Final Climb, Alto do Malhão

Elevation / Höhenmeter [m] : 227 m
Distance / Streckenlänge [Km] : 2.4 Km
Time in seconds / Fahrzeit in Sekunden [sec] : 427 = 7 min 7 sec = 7.07
Weight rider / Gewicht Fahrer [kg] : 62 kg
Weight bicycle, clothes etc. / Gewicht Fahrrad [kg] : 8 kg

Grade / mittlere Seigung : 9.4 %
Average speed / mittlere Geschwindigkeit : 20.2 Km/h
Total weight / Gesamtgewicht : 70.0 kg

Power : 428.0 Watt
Power / kg : 6.9 Watt / kg

Source: [ http://www.rst.mp-all.de/bergauf.htm ]
Can you please correct the data so is not normalized to 70 kg? People might get confuse by your numbers. You can actually mislead people into wrong accusations here. Even Greg Lemond was mislead in the 2009 Tour.

On the other hand, thanks for keeping us to date on the numbers.

Thanks.
 
Jun 25, 2009
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Escarabajo said:
Can you please correct the data so is not normalized to 70 kg?
What do you mean "is not normalized to 70 kg"? I calculated that Contador's weight is 62 kg and bicycle + clothes etc. weight is 8 kg. Total weight is 70 kg. I can also use another numbers if those aren't correct.

For example:

Alberto Contador


Volta ao Algarve 2011, Stage 3, Final Climb, Alto do Malhão

Elevation / Höhenmeter [m] : 227 m
Distance / Streckenlänge [Km] : 2.4 Km
Time in seconds / Fahrzeit in Sekunden [sec] : 427 = 7 min 7 sec = 7.07
Weight rider / Gewicht Fahrer [kg] : 64 kg
Weight bicycle, clothes etc. / Gewicht Fahrrad [kg] : 8 kg

Grade / mittlere Seigung : 9.4 %
Average speed / mittlere Geschwindigkeit : 20.2 Km/h
Total weight / Gesamtgewicht : 72.0 kg

Power : 439.0 Watt
Power / kg : 6.8 Watt / kg

Source: [ http://www.rst.mp-all.de/bergauf.htm ]
 
May 25, 2010
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Are you sure about those figures? 6.8w/kg sounds fantastic and all sorts of rumors will no doubt be inferred from that. What did Cummings do then to win the stage or did Dirty Bertie at number 30 (Boom! Boom!) start 5 minutes behind him??
 
Feb 12, 2011
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the climb was only 2.5 km. you can go faster, t higher w/kg on a short hill. We've been seeing data at 6.1 or 6.2 w/kg for 20 minute efforts, and this is less than half of that length in time.
 
halamala said:
What do you mean "is not normalized to 70 kg"? I calculated that Contador's weight is 62 kg and bicycle + clothes etc. weight is 8 kg. Total weight is 70 kg. I can also use another numbers if those aren't correct.

For example:

Alberto Contador


Volta ao Algarve 2011, Stage 3, Final Climb, Alto do Malhão

Elevation / Höhenmeter [m] : 227 m
Distance / Streckenlänge [Km] : 2.4 Km
Time in seconds / Fahrzeit in Sekunden [sec] : 427 = 7 min 7 sec = 7.07
Weight rider / Gewicht Fahrer [kg] : 64 kg
Weight bicycle, clothes etc. / Gewicht Fahrrad [kg] : 8 kg

Grade / mittlere Seigung : 9.4 %
Average speed / mittlere Geschwindigkeit : 20.2 Km/h
Total weight / Gesamtgewicht : 72.0 kg

Power : 439.0 Watt
Power / kg : 6.8 Watt / kg

Source: [ http://www.rst.mp-all.de/bergauf.htm ]
You are right. I did not notice it was a 2.4 km climb. That kind of power for such distances is OK.

I get 440-450 watts.

http://www.peaksware.com/articles/cycling/power-profiling.aspx