Pozzovivo = pots-of-epo

[Netserk]

Depends if you believe Evans, Quintana and others didn't care about his attack or just couldn't follow imho.

In 2012 they clearly let him go.

It didn't help with the crap coverage that we didn't see the attack, but I think most were hesitant to be the first to cover the attack and be countered, and thus they looked at each other for a bit before Uran tried. Since no one else after him tried anything, I think they were marking each other.

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

Depends if you believe Evans, Quintana and others didn't care about his attack or just couldn't follow imho.

In 2012 they clearly let him go.

I'm guessing that Quintana was the only one who could have followed him. Uran maybe, but both of them are waiting for the TT. Pozzovivo is going strong at the moment, as he was back then. Doesn't matter though if he fades in the third week.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

I'm guessing that Quintana was the only one who could have followed him. Uran maybe, but both of them are waiting for the TT. Pozzovivo is going strong at the moment, as he was back then. Doesn't matter though if he fades in the third week.

Those guys must have been sleeping last september when Domenico TT'ed to a podium alongside der Panzerwagen and the Cancellator

versus

I like him.

Is he equiped to win the GC? Nah. Top five would be nice. Third week jibbers, always with Domenico.

 

[rhubroma]

Pozzovivo has always been this good. It's just he weighs about 50kg soaking wet and has been susceptible to illness and injury and terrible at placing himself in the péloton as a result. In 2010 he was great in the warmup races (winning on Pampeago in Trentino), but was battered and crashed in the crosswinds on stage 3, got ill in the cold on stage 8 and retired on stage 13. Last year he got involved in a crash early on, and soldiered on until Zoncolán before dropping out.

This year the Giro has been comparatively warm and the péloton comparatively docile in the early, boring flat stages, which has enabled him to arrive at his playgrounds of the mountains in better condition than usual.

He hasn't been picked up by other teams because he wants to ride for Colnago; he has been approached by other teams at times but chooses to stay where he is. Plus, his general weakness and fragility would mean he would likely be a helper elsewhere, whereas where he is he is a leader.

Maybe he's doping, maybe he isn't. I wouldn't like to say. But it's not like he's suddenly changed as a rider, like he's suddenly found a new product that turns him into a mountain goat par excellence; he's always been one. So he could have been doping all along, or he could have been clean(ish) all along.

It's not too dissimilar to Mosquera really - if you pay attention to the national scene you'd be aware that it isn't the surprise it seems to the outside world to see him performing like this (plus Pozzovivo is a few years younger). It could have been great talent obscured through years of domestique work in the Portuguese péloton and being on the wrong teams at the wrong time, or it could have been EPO. We couldn't know for sure until he actually tested positive.

This is a nice assessment and Cycle Chicks opinion that it doesn't add up only displays her ignorance.

I would add that Pozzovivo is a home boy from the south, the only pro from Basilicata (Lucania), who was required to leave his small town at age 17 to go north, the only way for him to have been able to pursue his cycling career.

Yet, despite the difficulties of having to travel long distances to get to races, he has returned to his native south, which says much about his down to earth and nostalgic character. In fact early in his career Pozzovivo turned down offerings for much more potent teams, prefering as he did to race on an Italian continental team instead, where he simply felt more comfortable. In addition he has remarked that when his DSs were telling him he had super potential and could aspire to achieving great results, he always believed they were exaggerating.

He is thus an extremely sensitive soul and, until now, that is since becoming a mature rider, this has hindered his "explosion" within the peloton as one of the best climbers in the business, who, and this must also be remembered, can defend himself well in the time trials. Don't be fooled by his pint sized body, because in the races he has focused on for GC, he has never finished outside the top 20 in a time trial.

Sorry Cycling Chic, but what Pozzovivo is doing lies perfectly within his prospects as a rider. It is just that up until now he wasn’t psychologically ready to take on a grand tour as a true protagonist. I only hope that mentally the pressure doesn’t crack him, because he needs to believe that it is the other riders now who should be worried about his accelerations when the road goes up. If he can do that and stays healthy (which as Liberty said has been a weakness in the past), then the third week of the Giro could be the ideal platform from which to fare un salto di qualità (“make a leap of quality) in his career.

Whatever these riders do to remain in contention aside, though Pozzovivo is certainly not alone, or exceptional, in that.

 

[JimmyFingers]

I rate him. Of course he could be doping but to look at him he is the most natural climber in the peloton almost, given his diminutive size. Climbing is a numbers game after, all, and that low body weight makes he the mentioned 'mountain goat'.

 

[Netserk]

I rate him. Of course he could be doping but to look at him he is the most natural climber in the peloton almost, given his diminutive size. Climbing is a numbers game after, all, and that low body weight makes he the mentioned 'mountain goat'.

It also makes the dead weight of his bike (and clothes etc.) relatively higher, so he would have to do more W/kg to keep the same pace uphill as others.

 

[rhubroma]

It also makes the dead weight of his bike (and clothes etc.) relatively higher, so he would have to do more W/kg to keep the same pace uphill as others.

Relatively higher is the operative phrase. It's the ratio, of course, that counts.

 

[JimmyFingers]

It also makes the dead weight of his bike (and clothes etc.) relatively higher, so he would have to do more W/kg to keep the same pace uphill as others.

Not sure of the mathmatics of this, but his bike will be smaller, as will his clothes, so he should be pushing a little less weight than the others?

I think, like Cavendish, he has the physical attributes that are perfectly suited to his particular discipline, so until something more solid comes along I see no reason to heap doubt on him. I ride with a chap about half my size. On the flats I will dominate, but as soon as the road goes uphill he just disappears from sight. He is maybe a little bigger than Pozzo but not a lot. Perhaps because he is so small people can fathom how he produce such power uphills.

Also didn't Dr Ferrari hint that Pozzo is clean in that taped conversation?

 

[Netserk]

Not sure of the mathmatics of this, but his bike will be smaller, as will his clothes, so he should be pushing a little less weight than the others?

I think, like Cavendish, he has the physical attributes that are perfectly suited to his particular discipline, so until something more solid comes along I see no reason to heap doubt on him. I ride with a chap about half my size. On the flats I will dominate, but as soon as the road goes uphill he just disappears from sight. He is maybe a little bigger than Pozzo but not a lot. Perhaps because he is so small people can fathom how he produce such power uphills.

Also didn't Dr Ferrari hint that Pozzo is clean in that taped conversation?

Everyone's bike weights the minimum weight, so not really. Ofc 50kg dudes should climb better than 80kg dudes, but it's just to say that it's a balance, and that smaller isn't always better.

 

[JimmyFingers]

Everyone's bike weights the minimum weight, so not really. Ofc 50kg dudes should climb better than 80kg dudes, but it's just to say that it's a balance, and that smaller isn't always better.

That's not strictly true though is it, not all the bikes are at a minimum weight, and since his frame size will be smaller, and so using less material, unless they are adding weight somewhere his bike will be lighter than the same spec bike with a larger frame.

Alo the smaller frame will be stiffer, so less power lost through flex.

But we are splitting hairs now. Smaller, lighter riders naturally have an advantage climbing over their larger colleagues, and Pozzo is one of the smallest, lightest out there. That advantage isn't negated by the weight of their bike.

 

[Netserk]

That's not strictly true though is it, not all the bikes are at a minimum weight, and since his frame size will be smaller, and so using less material, unless they are adding weight somewhere his bike will be lighter than the same spec bike with a larger frame.

Alo the smaller frame will be stiffer, so less power lost through flex.

But we are splitting hairs now. Smaller, lighter riders naturally have an advantage climbing over their larger colleagues, and Pozzo is one of the smallest, lightest out there. That advantage isn't negated by the weight of their bike.

Yes it is. When riders above 60kg have to add weight to their bikes to get it over the minimum, lighter riders won't have an advantage.

The dead weight is 15-16% of Pozzovivo's weight, whereas it's only 12% for Froome, and less for a rider like Wiggins.

On a climb like Alpe d'Huez a rider weighting 68kg will have to do 5.96 W/kg to climb it in 40', whereas a rider like Domenico weighting 51kg will have to do 6.35 W/kg.

Don't tell me that difference isn't significant.

 

[Pentacycle]

That's not strictly true though is it, not all the bikes are at a minimum weight, and since his frame size will be smaller, and so using less material, unless they are adding weight somewhere his bike will be lighter than the same spec bike with a larger frame.

Alo the smaller frame will be stiffer, so less power lost through flex.

But we are splitting hairs now. Smaller, lighter riders naturally have an advantage climbing over their larger colleagues, and Pozzo is one of the smallest, lightest out there. That advantage isn't negated by the weight of their bike.

If two riders push the same W/kg uphill, the one with the highest weight will be the fastest, when you don't account for air resistance.

Some time ago I calculated it for the Etna, where for example two exceptional talents ride at the front, both pushing 6.5 W/kg.:

Rujano(48kg) 312W
Contador(61 kg) 397W

Both have 8 kgs of equipment, so the actual W/kg is:

absolute power output
(rider weight + equipment)

Which for Contador amounts to 5,75 W/kg, and 5,57 W/kg for Rujano. The latter has the advantage of less air resistance, but a difference of 0,18 W/kg is quite significant.

 

[JimmyFingers]

Well I did say I had no idea of the maths.

So it doesn't help to be lighter then? Does not compute

 

[Netserk]

The latter has the advantage of less air resistance, but a difference of 0,18 W/kg is quite significant.

No. In absolute terms yes, but since it's uphill, relative terms matter, and in that context it's the opposite.

 

[Netserk]

Well I did say I had no idea of the maths.

So it doesn't help to be lighter then? Does not compute

As said it's a balance. It's easier for a smaller rider to produce higher W/kg than a bigger rider, but the lighter rider will also need those higher W/kg.

 

[JimmyFingers]

http://www.bikeradar.com/road/gear/article/pro-bike-domenico-pozzovivos-focus-izalco-max-41056/

Interesting

 

[deValtos]

It's easier for a smaller rider to produce higher W/kg than a bigger rider, but the lighter rider will also need those higher W/kg.

Why is it such a popular system then ? Do we not have a better one ?

Seems unfair on the smaller riders when people judge riders based on their W/kg.

 

[The Hitch]

I think, like Cavendish, he has the physical attributes that are perfectly suited to his particular discipline, so until something more solid comes along I see no reason to heap doubt on him. I ride with a chap about half my size. On the flats I will dominate, but as soon as the road goes uphill he just disappears from sight. He is maybe a little bigger than Pozzo but not a lot. Perhaps because he is so small people can fathom how he produce such power uphills.

Also didn't Dr Ferrari hint that Pozzo is clean in that taped conversation?

Once upon a time Pozzovivo had a teammate who was the exact same height and weight and age as him. Together they flew up the mountains in the giro. They even finished one stage 1-2.

"It's because they are both so light, perfectly built to ride as fast as dopers" those who claimed cycling had cleaned up from the dirty years, cried.

Do you know who the teammate was?

 

[andy1234]

Once upon a time Pozzovivo had a teammate who was the exact same height and weight and age as him. Together they flew up the mountains in the giro. They even finished one stage 1-2.

"It's because they are both so light, perfectly built to ride as fast as dopers" those who claimed cycling had cleaned up from the dirty years, cried.

Do you know who the teammate was?

I love a quiz. Was it Andre Greipel?

 

[canone]

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[kingjr]

Once upon a time Pozzovivo had a teammate who was the exact same height and weight and age as him. Together they flew up the mountains in the giro. They even finished one stage 1-2.

"It's because they are both so light, perfectly built to ride as fast as dopers" those who claimed cycling had cleaned up from the dirty years, cried.

Do you know who the teammate was?

That teammate was a lot more ridiculous though.

 

[del1962]

I love a quiz. Was it Andre Greipel?

Your sellang yourself short there, two minute gap though

 

[Bumeington]

Yes it is. When riders above 60kg have to add weight to their bikes to get it over the minimum, lighter riders won't have an advantage.

The dead weight is 15-16% of Pozzovivo's weight, whereas it's only 12% for Froome, and less for a rider like Wiggins.

On a climb like Alpe d'Huez a rider weighting 68kg will have to do 5.96 W/kg to climb it in 40', whereas a rider like Domenico weighting 51kg will have to do 6.35 W/kg.

Don't tell me that difference isn't significant.

5.96W/kg for the 68kg guy, 6.14W/kg for the 51kg guy assuming 6.8kg bike

If the 68kg guy goes 6.14W/kg he does 39:00 so about a minute difference in terms of time, so significant yes

And just for fun, the 68kg (@5.96W/kg) puts 3.5 minutes into the 51kg guy in a one hour time trial assuming they both have similar shaped torsos and optimised tt positions

For off topic fun, 2 riders, 66kg and 61kg (let's call them Coome and Frontador) both ride up Alpe d'Huez in 38 minutes. Coome puts 1 minute into Frontador in an hour time trial for both with optimised positions. If two such riders existed and were matching each other in the mountains in some sort of french cycling race, the difference between them in the time trial could be a good marginal gains barometer (> or < 1 minute)

 

[Netserk]

5.96W/kg for the 68kg guy, 6.14W/kg for the 51kg guy assuming 6.8kg bike

I used CPL. What did you?

Same two riders with rst:

51kg: 6.42/6.53 W/kg (6.8kg bike/8.0kg bike and clothes etc.)
68kg: 6.03/6.11 W/kg (6.8kg bike/8.0kg bike and clothes etc.)

 

[Bumeington]

I used CPL. What did you?

Same two riders with rst:

51kg: 6.42/6.53 W/kg (6.8kg bike/8.0kg bike and clothes etc.)
68kg: 6.03/6.11 W/kg (6.8kg bike/8.0kg bike and clothes etc.)

Just assumed W/(kg of body weight + bike) should be the same*, so 5.96W/kg for 68kg is 405W which is 5.41W/kg for 68+6.8=74.8kg. 5.41W/kg for 51+6.8=57.8kg is 313W which is 6.13W/kg for 51kg.

This has to be true, P = Fv = mgv --> P/m = gv (P - power, m - mass, v - speed, g - gravitational acceleration). So for the same speed v uphill and the same gravitational constant g, P/m should be the same, and the mass lifted is rider + bike.