Pro Rider reaction to Ricco news

[kurtinsc]

So are you an apologist now? Do these people not own their actions?

I don't like HWMNBN very much, but if he were in the hospital tomorrow, I'd feel genuinely bad for the man. I really would.

There is no cyclist I'd react to in that way... because in reality I don't know any of them.

But have there been people in my personal life that I've disliked enough through everyday association that I'd celebrate a certain level of bad things happening to them?

Yeah. Of course. I think everyone has people like that. Would I want them dead... no. Might I laugh at them going to jail... yeah, I would. I might even crack a ****-sex joke.

We recently had a party at my workplace to celebrate the firing of a hated co-worker who walked over everyone and treated us like crap. Nice? Nope. Would we have done it to anyone else in the office? Nope. But there are people who garner such hatred from their peers that things like that are said and done.

The people you are attacking probably shouldn't have put this stuff out for general consumption. But the fact is they know these guys much better then we do... they had to deal with them in the peloton consistently. And when someone is so universally hated... it's rarely all the people hating him that are the ones with the problem.

The problem usually rests with the guy who is despised.

There are plenty of repeat dopers who aren't universally attacked like this. Tyler Hamilton was pitied more then anything else for example. But NOBODY LIKES RICCO. That much is very clear.


I'm not saying the rest are clean. I'm not saying they aren't being hypocritical in many ways. But I think people attributing the vehemence of the responses to anything other then Ricco being a huge jerk are reading way too much into it. They aren't attacking him because he's an easy target, or to try to make themselves look better. There have been others that fit that bill who were not jumped on like this.

They're attacking him because they hate him. He ****es people off.

 

[BotanyBay]

They're attacking him because they hate him. He ****es people off.

The peloton is filled with people that are hated by many. But these riders only take their kick because they know they can't get hurt in return. That's cowardly.

 

[Digger]

Although I was never as talented a rider as Ricco, I've experienced the same abuse - people suggesting that an appropriate punishment for my doping and helping others to dope would be to be sexually abused in prison and raped by other male inmates.

Anyone who expresses that kind of evil, disturbed sentiment, claiming that another human being guilty of damaging their own body in order to ride a bike faster deserves in-turn to be further harmed by other humans is as bad or worse a character than the original villain. End of story.

As Thomas Frei said, I would rather invite into my house every doper who'd been caught and sanctioned before inviting a single one of the dopers who hadn't been caught but tried to pass themselves off as righteously-indignant victims by piling-on the latest schmuck like Ricco.
Riccardo Riccó IS the convenient villain who allows a peloton filled with dubious pro cyclists to manifest a mock sense of justice.(Note: not every rider in the peloton is dubious.)

Joe I may have disagreed last week with a couple of your posts, but this one above, I couldn't have put better myself.

 

[joe_papp]

Joe... while not to be insulting... from what I've read you weren't exactly well liked by your fellow cyclists... in a way very similar to Ricco. I've no personal experience obviously, but it does not seem like many liked you in cycling aside from those you were providing for.

Do you think that maybe the level of vitriol aimed your way might be more related to that then anything else? People often act differently when someone they personally dislike is suffering a hardship as opposed to a stranger or someone they get along with.

You can say that makes them "worse"... but it's also human nature. If your actions on a personal relationship level **** off others... they're going to jump on you when you're down for almost any reason.

It's happening to Ricco... and it happened to you. That doesn't make them "worse then you"... that should make you reflect on why otherwise reasonable people reacted that way toward you. It should make you look inward.

It's not everyone else's fault.

Regardless of whether or not you "like" someone, it doesn't entitle you to call for the legitimization of their sexual brutalization as an appropriate future punishment.

That's a very narrowly defined area of inquiry and it's whether or not it's ok in our society to call for illegal, degrading treatment of someone in response to their unethical and potentially illegal behavior.

 

[BotanyBay]

Interesting how Simeoni did not have a reputation as a "hated man" before he testified, but after HWMNBN bridged-up to him, everyone dismissed him as a guy they all hated.

They hated him for a reason. He P*ss*d in the soup.

Riccó just spilled the soup all over a cop's lap. So they hate him now. Before being caught doping, he was just like any other cocky rider. The sport is filled with cockiness.

 

[md2020]

How does Di Luca not come up in this interview with Pozzato? He says that he's doing all he can to help clean up the sport yet his team is on the front lines bringing dopers back.

 

[131313]

Interesting how Simeoni did not have a reputation as a "hated man" before he testified, but after HWMNBN bridged-up to him, everyone dismissed him as a guy they all hated.

They hated him for a reason. He P*ss*d in the soup.

Riccó just spilled the soup all over a cop's lap. So they hate him now. Before being caught doping, he was just like any other cocky rider. The sport is filled with cockiness.

You have no idea what you're talking about. The reasons he's (Ricco) hated have nothing to do with him spitting in the soup, and the feelings about him were no different before his bust.

I've talked to guys who've done 3 junior races with the guy and couldn't stop badmouthing the guy.

Quit trying to make the guy a victim. He's an asshat, everyone knows it. Sure, it's annoying when guys like Cancellara (from Fasso to Bjarne) pile on, but that doesn't make Ricco any less of an asshat.

I don't wish the guy any ill, but I really dont' believe in "wishes" anyway. I'm not really a religious guy. What happens happens. If he recovers, I hope he's punished by whatever applicable laws are out there.

I understand that the system is corrupt, and he's a small part of it. But he's still part of it, he's still a cheater, and at a certain point (like say after his first bust) it's time to exercise your own free will. The excuse-making on his behalf by everyone here is really tiring, as is the victimology of some of the dopers.

 

[131313]

As Thomas Frei said, I would rather invite into my house every doper who'd been caught and sanctioned before inviting a single one of the dopers who hadn't been caught but tried to pass themselves off as righteously-indignant victims by piling-on the latest schmuck like Ricco.

personally, I'd rather ask Thomas how he feels about taking his 125K contract while clean and more talented teammates end up not having their contracts renewed and end up out of the sport.

Frei made a good decision to admit his guilt, but let's not pretend he didn't screw over people in the process.

 

[Hugh Januss]

personally, I'd rather ask Thomas how he feels about taking his 125K contract while clean and more talented teammates end up not having their contracts renewed and end up out of the sport.

Frei made a good decision to admit his guilt, but let's not pretend he didn't screw over people in the process.

What makes you think that when a doper quits he is replaced by a clean guy?

 

[BotanyBay]

You have no idea what you're talking about. The reasons he's (Ricco) hated have nothing to do with him spitting in the soup, and the feelings about him were no different before his bust.

I've talked to guys who've done 3 junior races with the guy and couldn't stop badmouthing the guy.

Quit trying to make the guy a victim. He's an asshat, everyone knows it. Sure, it's annoying when guys like Cancellara (from Fasso to Bjarne) pile on, but that doesn't make Ricco any less of an asshat.

I don't wish the guy any ill, but I really dont' believe in "wishes" anyway. I'm not really a religious guy. What happens happens. If he recovers, I hope he's punished by whatever applicable laws are out there.

I understand that the system is corrupt, and he's a small part of it. But he's still part of it, he's still a cheater, and at a certain point (like say after his first bust) it's time to exercise your own free will. The excuse-making on his behalf by everyone here is really tiring, as is the victimology of some of the dopers.

What excuses have I (or anyone else) made for the guy? I'm just saying that there's no need to lose your humanity in wishing him his just desserts. The timing is very poor, as he's still in the hospital, and furthermore, none of you really have any idea what really happened.

 

[Benotti69]

, I'd rather ask Thomas how he feels about taking his 125K contract while clean and more talented teammates end up not having their contracts renewed and end up out of the sport.

What makes you think that when a doper quits he is replaced by a clean guy?

i imagine he got a 125k contract due to his enhanced performances and as Hugh puts it he will be replaced by another guy who has enhanced performances...

 

[131313]

What makes you think that when a doper quits he is replaced by a clean guy?

What makes you assume he's replaced by another doper?

I know as sure as one can know things that a clean guy on BMC with a lot more talent than Frei was offered a pay cut while Frei was offered a significant pay raise, mainly due to the mid and late season results Frei doped himself to getting. It's worth noting that these two guys were both on the bubble for some big races like Missouri and Frei got picked.

I realize it's popular to rant about the man and the system, but one individual's real world actions have real world consequences. This somehow gets lost in everything. Frei is not a hero.

 

[131313]

furthermore, none of you really have any idea what really happened.

I agree it's in bad taste to pile on the guy while he's in the hospital, you don't see me doing it. The above comment is pretty funny though.

I mean, we don't know that you-know-who caused his own cancer by doping, but that doesn't stop people from speculating on it. How much evidence to we really need to hear when a guy with a history of doping and a slew of results ends up in the hospital with acute renal failure?

 

[BotanyBay]

I agree it's in bad taste to pile on the guy while he's in the hospital, you don't see me doing it.

You've piled on him plenty while defending those who've also piled on him.

 

[Hugh Januss]

What makes you assume he's replaced by another doper?

Probability

Frei is not a hero.

We don't disagree.

 

[131313]

You've piled on him plenty while defending those who've also piled on him.

That's your interpretation of piling on. Personally, I think it's skewed because it fits your narrative of making him an anti-hero. We're going to have to agree to disagree.

Still, I really don't see where I've piled on (or defended those who have, besides the straight edge clown, I did defend him), so if you can provide a specific instance I'd like to see it? Yes, I said he's an asshat. I stand by that statement. I don't know him personally but I've heard it from guys whose opinion I trust.

 

[131313]

Probability

I don't want to drag this anymore OT, so I won't comment anymore on the Frei thing after this, but here's the problem. I'm sure this is Frei's thought process as well. "hey, I'm not taking anything from anyone, if I don't get the spot, it'll just go to another doper". Which is why I think it would be instructive for Frei to sit down and have lunch with the very real clean teammate(s) he screwed over.

 

[BotanyBay]

Yes, I said he's an asshat. I stand by that statement. I don't know him personally but I've heard it from guys whose opinion I trust.

And you tell me that I don't know what I'm talking about. Oh sorry. "Some guys you know" think he's an asshat.

You sound like one of those kids in the schoolyard who took their turn spitting on the nerdy kid that was being bullied. Because you trust the word of the Bully.

Yep, good enough for me to come to a conclusion about you too.

 

[Mrs John Murphy]

While Ricco is thrown under the bus another unrepentant doper who lied for years about his doping is welcomed back with open arms.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/valverde-trains-with-movistar

 

[BotanyBay]

While Ricco is thrown under the bus another unrepentant doper who lied for years about his doping is welcomed back with open arms.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/valverde-trains-with-movistar

It's like trying to keep-up with the Manson family parole hearings the past 10 years.

 

[JMBeaushrimp]

While Ricco is thrown under the bus another unrepentant doper who lied for years about his doping is welcomed back with open arms.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/valverde-trains-with-movistar

And the peloton responds with? Utter silence...

 

[thehog]

It's like trying to keep-up with the Manson family parole hearings the past 10 years.

Now we need Taylor Phinney to call Ricco a doper to later retract his statement after Lance tells him to calm down.

 

[131313]

And you tell me that I don't know what I'm talking about. Oh sorry. "Some guys you know" think he's an asshat.

You sound like one of those kids in the schoolyard who took their turn spitting on the nerdy kid that was being bullied. Because you trust the word of the Bully.

People form opinions about others based on a lot less. I trust the word of people I know and respect. If that results in you having a negative opinion of me, so be it.

Personally, I think you're being ridiculous.

 

[Hugh Januss]

And the peloton responds with? Utter silence...

Am I the only one who thinks it would be a good idea to restrict banned riders from all contact with their team, at least in any official or public capacity, until they are done serving their time?

 

[Chuffy]

BotanyBay, enough of the frikkin' pictures already.