Pro Rider reaction to Ricco news

[hrotha]

amen!

it is why i find it so troubling that even when Adam tries to defend his tweet in the post below (i snipped it), he admits that we still do not know if the story is true...

That hasn't stopped us here at CN, why should it stop Adam? Some of his tweets were in bad taste, but I repeat, he's not part of the problem. It's apples and oranges.

 

[Parrulo]

wow i regret clicking that bikechatter link. what a bunch of D*ckheads.

reading what guys like quinziato and cancellara said . . .

i have never been a fan of ricco nor a hater. but tbh i would love to see proved that this happened for reasons other then a blood transfusion.

 

[skidmark]

Fabian Cancellara is a far better target. The same guy who rode for Riis, rides with the Schlecks and Kim Anderson told L'Equipe: “I think we should send him to the moon. That's all, because what kind of person doesn't understand about life. Once an idiot, always an idiot

Fabian thinks he is an idiot because he got caught, not because he is a doper.

Well, to address the issue of double standards and hypocrisy, comments like Cancellara's aren't hypocritical as much as they are just cynical. They're misleading with the implication that they're talking about outrage towards doping when they're really talking about frustration towards 'stupid' (ie. being caught, being a high-profile loudmouth) doping. But he's not saying 'dopers are ruining the sport' and then doping himself, which would be pure hypocrisy and a double standard.

It's disgusting, but it's not strictly hypocritical, to be pedantic about it.

 

[BotanyBay]

That hasn't stopped us here at CN, why should it stop Adam? Some of his tweets were in bad taste, but I repeat, he's not part of the problem. It's apples and oranges.

Right. It's a whole new problem.

 

[Skandar Akbar]

The prevailing opinion in this thread is confusing to me, so I wish to seek clarification before commenting. I do not want to be called names so I want to make sure I make the right interpretation of the conventional wisdom.

There has been previous opinion in the clinic where silence of other riders towards dopers has been criticized. This is a sign of omerta, etc. Now riders are piling on Ricco and they are getting slammed for that. This would appear to be contradictory on the part of the regulars in the clinic. Again, I wish to understand what is going on here so I can contribute and be accepted as knowledgeable on this subject.

 

[DirtyWorks]

The prevailing opinion in this thread is confusing to me, so I wish to seek clarification before commenting. I do not want to be called names so I want to make sure I make the right interpretation of the conventional wisdom.

There has been previous opinion in the clinic where silence of other riders towards dopers has been criticized. This is a sign of omerta, etc. Now riders are piling on Ricco and they are getting slammed for that. This would appear to be contradictory on the part of the regulars in the clinic. Again, I wish to understand what is going on here so I can contribute and be accepted as knowledgeable on this subject.

Well, you aren't the only one. As observed, some of the regulars are disgusted by the comments of Ricco's peers.
A response on this one depends entirely on your perspective. Which, IMHO, is why some comments appear contradictory to some and consistent to others.

I'd also like to point out that many of these athletes aren't the greatest gift to humanity. Great athletes, but as people, athletes of this caliber can leave much to be desired. So, some of the misbehavior shouldn't be a surprise.

 

[kurtinsc]

Well, you aren't the only one. As observed, some of the regulars are disgusted by the comments of Ricco's peers.
A response on this one depends entirely on your perspective. Which, IMHO, is why some comments appear contradictory to some and consistent to others.

The disgust most show seems more directed towards riders who say things along the lines of "Is death a lifetime ban?" It doesn't seem directed towards those who say "Hope he recovers, but I hope he's banned for good."

Basically... it's okay to be happy he's caught doping, but not okay to be happy he's ill.

 

[BotanyBay]

The prevailing opinion in this thread is confusing to me, so I wish to seek clarification before commenting. I do not want to be called names so I want to make sure I make the right interpretation of the conventional wisdom.

There has been previous opinion in the clinic where silence of other riders towards dopers has been criticized. This is a sign of omerta, etc. Now riders are piling on Ricco and they are getting slammed for that. This would appear to be contradictory on the part of the regulars in the clinic. Again, I wish to understand what is going on here so I can contribute and be accepted as knowledgeable on this subject.

If he were healthy and walking around, I'd see your point. But he was admitted to the hospital in critical condition. No need to kick him while he's down.

And to someone else's point (that I'd somehow be dancing for joy if this were "HWSNBN").. to answer that... I wouldn't.

 

[Hugh Januss]

It also depends on how you stand on the question "what % of the pro peloton do you think dopes".
If your personal answer is anywhere close to 100% then you have to think that all of the rider responses are dripping with hypocrisy.
If you believe that the majority are clean then it becomes a case of speaking out against an unmasked cheater. Although the lack of response towards a number of other cheaters then becomes a little hard to explain.

 

[Digger]

Hey everyone,

I'm right here, you know? I can hear you. I'm a real person, not a famous pro bike racer who thinks he's so good he keeps his distance from the unwashed masses like some kind of rock star. When I post, I use my real name.

The point of the tweet is that there should be more agressive lifetime bans, and Ricco is likely going to get one if this story is true. What I was speaking to is the absolute stupidity, and criminality, of this kind of behavior. If someone is willing to nearly kill themselves doping, they're going to end up out of the sport, one way or the other. I didn't wish anyone death. I was commenting on someone's willingness to kill themselves doping.

Tasteless? Maybe. But honestly, are you going to sit here and defend Ricco in the name good taste? Like he deserves our respect simply because he's ill, when the illness was caused by his own illegal behavior? What would Aldo Sassi say right now?

Further, I'm no hypocrite. Follow me on Twitter or Facebook if you like. You'll hear the consistency of my message. I made the choice to race clean many, many years ago. If you want to call that "hiding" by racing domestically, fair enough. I'm only as good as I am, and I don't pretend to be better than that. Nor I do have an desire to cheat to get to the next level, since that's what it would take for me to get there.

For the few that seemed to get it, and who defended me here, I appreciate it. For those who think that calling comments "***" or wishing I had been more seriously injured when I was assaulted is fair play, well, I think you're leading the way in hypocrisy here.

The only way doping culture in pro cycling ends is when the riders themselves end it by speaking out against it. It's up to the riders to change the culture. No one else is capable of getting it done. Not the UCI, not the teams, not the police. The riders themselves are the ones who need to want it to change, and who need to reverse the omerta.

You can call me self-righteous. But I walk the walk, and will continue to do so, because I love and care about bike racing. More than I care about Ricardo Ricco.

Hey, I am only getting through the thread now with work and time delay etc. I have absolutely no issue with what you said abotu Ricco. It's justified anger. My issue is not with you necessarily. I applaud that you have always been this way. My issue is that Ricco seems an easy target. I agree with what people have said about him. I am angered though that the other obvious dopers have not been criticised. That's the hypocrisy. For me it doesn't take much courage to castigate Ricco. But no one seems to have the balls to call out the high profile Schlecks, Contadors, Amrstrongs, Valverdes etc. That's my issue. I am not familiar with your past writings on hte issue. You certainly seem to have been consistent and that's fair enough. But today's words from Bettini et al, now that's nauseating. Just like it was nauseating to hear the coward Wiggins criticise Ricco before, yet lick the a&& of Lance, criticise Floyd, and not criticise Contador. I am not trying to make this about Lance. It's a general point.

 

[Skandar Akbar]

If he were healthy and walking around, I'd see your point. But he was admitted to the hospital in critical condition. No need to kick him while he's down.

And to someone else's point (that I'd somehow be dancing for joy if this were "HWSNBN").. to answer that... I wouldn't.

You are the one that went off on that tangent and maybe a few others chimed in to support your outrage, but the majority of the posters here are being critical of the outrage in general. The OP post of this thread is of that manner.

Can you please enlighten me on the proper time to criticize? Is it after getting out of ICU? Discharged from the hospital?

 

[davestoller]

i think you'll find that Contador gave the already severely battered and bruised body of cycling a severe blow that has left it on its knees, this pushes it face down into the mud, but i think you'll find the feds case on armstrong will be the death blow and possible cremation of whatever was left of its reputation.

No argument with the basics of your point.

My point is that cyclingnews, and others here, are calling a double standard in the way pro riders have sprayed invective--- which is ridiculous. Riders arent glad, as the CN "opinion"article suggests, to have Ricco around as their whipping boy. Riders absolutely dont want any more positives, no more scandals, no more negative press. Some riders may feel this way for all the right reasons, "We want the sport clean" others for less positive reasons,"Leave us alone so we can dope and win races" but I dont think--like a number of posters here--that we have any idea which riders are motivated by either sentiments.

My point is that it is Cyclingnews that has the speaking out of both sides of their mouths. Anything negative related to Armstrong got full wall to wall coverage here, and often moreso than other places. Now that a proven convicted doper is caught is the worst way imaginable, CN comes out castigating riders for feeling negative for the "invective" riders hurled at Ricco. These riders are expressing their frustration that a profession and career they have built and succeeded at over 10-20 years is being ruined by a few idiots.

What could be more clear? Their ability to provide for their families and themselves is in jeopardy. Isn't this, whatever you think of the way he did it, the message that Lance had with Simeoni, spitting in the soup? Everyone has to eat from the same pot, and he spits in it, spoiling it for everyone?

 

[Digger]

No argument with the basics of your point.

My point is that cyclingnews, and others here, are calling a double standard in the way pro riders have sprayed invective--- which is ridiculous. Riders arent glad, as the CN "opinion"article suggests, to have Ricco around as their whipping boy. Riders absolutely dont want any more positives, no more scandals, no more negative press. Some riders may feel this way for all the right reasons, "We want the sport clean" others for less positive reasons,"Leave us alone so we can dope and win races" but I dont think--like a number of posters here--that we have any idea which riders are motivated by either sentiments.

My point is that it is Cyclingnews that has the speaking out of both sides of their mouths. Anything negative related to Armstrong got full wall to wall coverage here, and often moreso than other places. Now that a proven convicted doper is caught is the worst way imaginable, CN comes out castigating riders for feeling negative for the "invective" riders hurled at Ricco. These riders are expressing their frustration that a profession and career they have built and succeeded at over 10-20 years is being ruined by a few idiots.

What could be more clear? Their ability to provide for their families and themselves is in jeopardy. Isn't this, whatever you think of the way he did it, the message that Lance had with Simeoni, spitting in the soup? Everyone has to eat from the same pot, and he spits in it, spoiling it for everyone?

So your message is that doping is okay, getting caught is the problem. You're merely strengthening the case for the cyclingnews article today.

 

[BotanyBay]

Can you please enlighten me on the proper time to criticize? Is it after getting out of ICU? Discharged from the hospital?

Only you can determine that for yourself.

 

[Skandar Akbar]

So your message is that doping is okay, getting caught is the problem. You're merely strengthening the case for the cyclingnews article today.

He did not say that at all Mr. Digger. He said the motivations of those speaking out is unknown, bur either way Ricco getting caught is NG from either perspective.

Can you help me out? Am I supposed to be outraged at the ones speaking out? I am becoming impatient, especialy after I had my hopes up Botany Bay would clarify but only learned there is confusion when to criticize vs the medical condition of the doper.

 

[BotanyBay]

He did not say that at all Mr. Digger. He said the motivations of those speaking out is unknown, bur either way Ricco getting caught is NG from either perspective.

Can you help me out? Am I supposed to be outraged at the ones speaking out? I am becoming impatient, especialy after I had my hopes up Botany Bay would clarify but only learned there is confusion when to criticize vs the medical condition of the doper.

I told you that you'll have to define your boundaries for yourself. I think I've clearly explained my own. I don't kick dead horses (or even injured ones). If Riccós actions lead to consequences beyond the obvious "current" ones, then he'll face them in due time.

You don't have to be outraged at anyone. Instead of hijacking my opinions, why don't you offer a few of your own?

Quit being an errand boy.

 

[Digger]

He did not say that at all Mr. Digger. He said the motivations of those speaking out is unknown, bur either way Ricco getting caught is NG from either perspective.
Can you help me out? Am I supposed to be outraged at the ones speaking out? I am becoming impatient, especialy after I had my hopes up Botany Bay would clarify but only learned there is confusion when to criticize vs the medical condition of the doper.

Really??????????

What could be more clear? Their ability to provide for their families and themselves is in jeopardy. Isn't this, whatever you think of the way he did it, the message that Lance had with Simeoni, spitting in the soup? Everyone has to eat from the same pot, and he spits in it, spoiling it for everyone?

 

[Escarabajo]

Hey everyone,

I'm right here, you know? I can hear you. I'm a real person, not a famous pro bike racer who thinks he's so good he keeps his distance from the unwashed masses like some kind of rock star. When I post, I use my real name.

The point of the tweet is that there should be more agressive lifetime bans, and Ricco is likely going to get one if this story is true. What I was speaking to is the absolute stupidity, and criminality, of this kind of behavior. If someone is willing to nearly kill themselves doping, they're going to end up out of the sport, one way or the other. I didn't wish anyone death. I was commenting on someone's willingness to kill themselves doping.

Tasteless? Maybe. But honestly, are you going to sit here and defend Ricco in the name good taste? Like he deserves our respect simply because he's ill, when the illness was caused by his own illegal behavior? What would Aldo Sassi say right now?

Further, I'm no hypocrite. Follow me on Twitter or Facebook if you like. You'll hear the consistency of my message. I made the choice to race clean many, many years ago. If you want to call that "hiding" by racing domestically, fair enough. I'm only as good as I am, and I don't pretend to be better than that. Nor I do have an desire to cheat to get to the next level, since that's what it would take for me to get there.

For the few that seemed to get it, and who defended me here, I appreciate it. For those who think that calling comments "***" or wishing I had been more seriously injured when I was assaulted is fair play, well, I think you're leading the way in hypocrisy here.

The only way doping culture in pro cycling ends is when the riders themselves end it by speaking out against it. It's up to the riders to change the culture. No one else is capable of getting it done. Not the UCI, not the teams, not the police. The riders themselves are the ones who need to want it to change, and who need to reverse the omerta.

You can call me self-righteous. But I walk the walk, and will continue to do so, because I love and care about bike racing. More than I care about Ricardo Ricco.

Hi Adam,

I did not agree with your twitt response, but I really applaud you for riding clean. That is rare during these times, even if people try to convince me that they are mostly riding clean now.

Welcome to the forum. You had your rough start. But we all had it at some point.

I want Ricco to get well but at the same time once he is recuperated I want him to be banned for life. I am a little hypocrite because if I believe that most riders are dirty, I should stop cheering and watching cycling but I still do watch because of the beauty and enjoyment of the sport. I can't help it. Besides I always carry hope that there are some clean riders like Lemmond who at some point will break through and be able to win clean. Hope is the last thing to loose.

Thanks for being man enough and face this rough crowd
.

 

[Skandar Akbar]

Really??????????

Yes because you cannot tell where the outrage is from. Of course Lance was doing it because he doped, but a clean rider may do the same thing if the majority is clean to a doper or if the majority is clean and wants Simeoni to stfu. Stoller is talking about piling on and criticizing, and neither you nor I can tell its origins and Ricco getting caught is bad for the sport either way.

You quoted his last paragraph thus taking it out of context. Bad Mr. Digger.

 

[BotanyBay]

Yes because you cannot tell where the outrage is from. Of course Lance was doing it because he doped, but a clean rider may do the same thing if the majority is clean to a doper or if the majority is clean and wants Simeoni to stfu. Stoller is talking about piling on and criticizing, and neither you nor I can tell its origins and Ricco getting caught is bad for the sport either way.

You quoted his last paragraph thus taking it out of context. Bad Mr. Digger.

Do you ever offer your own opinions, or are you only able to snipe at those of others?

Do you have any game of your own?

 

[Skandar Akbar]

Do you ever offer your own opinions, or are you only able to snipe at those of others?

Do you have any game of your own?

My opinion is that you don't read too good. I said upthread I would like clarification on the seemingly inconsistent opinion on whether riders should speak out or not. I did this because right now it is a coin flip in my head on future threads of this sort, and i dont wish to be subjected to hurtful names if I guess wrong.

You derailed that by interjecting some vague timeline on when people should criticize depending on the physical condition of the doper. That is not relevant to the thread and now you try to divert again by questioning my core values, instead of reading my posts and treating a fellow poster with respect.

 

[BotanyBay]

My opinion is that you don't read too good. I said upthread I would like clarification on the seemingly inconsistent opinion on whether riders should speak out or not.

Why, because you are so fearful of having your own opinion?

I did this because right now it is a coin flip in my head on future threads of this sort, and i dont wish to be subjected to hurtful names if I guess wrong.

You're clearly acting as "bait".

You derailed that by interjecting some vague timeline on when people should criticize depending on the physical condition of the doper. That is not relevant to the thread and now you try to divert again by questioning my core values, instead of reading my posts and treating a fellow poster with respect.

I've merely observed that you're an eternal monkey-wrencher. You've not participated in a meaningful way. All you do is try to bait people into doing something that I (presume) will be reported to the mods. You've been a here a short while, and all I have seen you do (so-far) is derail.

 

[Mellow Velo]

More critcism of the rider's twitterings:
http://www.cyclesportmag.com/news-and-comment/railing-against-ricco-is-a-bit-rich/

Is it okay for riders to keep schtum about the likes of Contador, Valverde, Di Luca and Rasmussen (the list goes on) because they were only banned once? Because they didn’t appear to have odious personalities and clung to implausible defences? A cheat is a cheat, whether he has big, brown doe-eyes or conducts himself with shameless arrogance.

Ricco belongs to that latter category. He might be a fool, a liar and a cheat too. Hell, he comes off as a nasty piece of work personality-wise as well.

However, he should not be the scapegoat for cycling’s collective woes or a target for mass hysteria, especially while facts are hazy and he recovers from liver failure in an Italian hospital.

Twitter, and internet comment in general, is geared towards knee-jerk reaction. But I hope that, as the flames flicker out twenty-four hours after the initial inferno, more people will stop, think and realise that Ricco is not the enemy.

Cheats as a whole are, and the riders needs to rally as a whole against them – in person.

 

[DirtyWorks]

My point is that it is Cyclingnews that has the speaking out of both sides of their mouths. Anything negative related to Armstrong got full wall to wall coverage here, and often moreso than other places. Now that a proven convicted doper is caught is the worst way imaginable, CN comes out castigating riders for feeling negative for the "invective" riders hurled at Ricco. These riders are expressing their frustration that a profession and career they have built and succeeded at over 10-20 years is being ruined by a few idiots.

I don't believe it to be as wholesome as you make it out to be in every case. I also take issue with the notion it's just a few idiots.

What could be more clear? Their ability to provide for their families and themselves is in jeopardy. Isn't this, whatever you think of the way he did it, the message that Lance had with Simeoni, spitting in the soup? Everyone has to eat from the same pot, and he spits in it, spoiling it for everyone?

Again, this is a simple explanation that smooths over the misdeeds of many by wrapping it in a wholesome plea for mercy. Too bad you didn't include some patriotism references. It would have made the absurd more obvious.

 

[forty four]

Yes we are animals and the distinctive feature that sets us apart is are striving to be " better" than our animilistic instincts. ( Granted were often appalingly bad at it..and some would argue the planet would be a better place without our cognition but were here for better or worse)
It aint easy , especialy when your directly effected like your self by some others moment of stupity but the altarnative is the barbarism of the rest of the Animal Kingdom.
Compassion is what makes us Human.

i feel you but in my eyes the animal kingdom is much healthier and has a true balance humans are the sick evil ones imo. on the stupidity of others comment look i have been blown off my bike many times with injury from cars. those who hit me purely on mistake i have no anger towards at all accidents happen and they were always appalled that they hurt another human being moral types. now when someone hurts someone and drives off with no regard to the humans life they may have ended well yeah id like to kill or seriously injure them sorry.