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Prophet Muhammad insulted by a film, so we claim the right to kill you?

I'm uncomfortable with the notion that some Muslims seemingly claim the right to kill other (non-Muslim) people because of supposed-offense to their god.

"Unidentified armed men stormed the grounds overnight amid uproar among Muslims over a film produced in the US said to insult the Prophet Muhammad.

They shot at buildings and threw handmade bombs into the compound."


mohammed-cartoon.jpg


My gut reaction is why should any non-Muslim be sensitive to or understanding of, let alone deferential to a religion that - in this modern age - can be utilized to justify the attack on a US consulate and the murder of four US citizens - including the ambassador? B/c I've posted the above editorial cartoon, would it be OK for a practitioner of Islam to kill me now?

Islam seems incompatible w/ modernity, if in 2012 its practitioners literally think it a-ok to KILL anyone who "insults" their "prophet." By extension, wouldn't Christians be able to justify - in this modern age - killing all Muslims b/c they're pagan heathens? Good enough for the goose = good enough for the gander?

All b/c someone "insulted" your Prophet? Seriously?

Then, on the topic of religion in politics, "overexposure of religion in politics is a danger on multiple fronts.

First, politics should be separate from religion: When you have religious leaders running a nation, laws will gradually shift to support the tenants of that religion. This, as we see in the fundamentalist Muslim world, will greatly interfere with free speech and personal freedoms, and will stamp out any religion or belief system not belonging to those in power.

Second, leaders of our country should have a good understanding of science and logic: Knowing science is not simply memorizing facts. One who understands how science works is one who understands the scientific method and critical thought. Both of those skills are used in other aspects of life, and – yes – controlling a country. These skills allow one to make decisions based on evidence, facts, logic and reality.

Do we really want elected leaders running our country based on their subjective interpretation of faith, rather than critical thought? Do we want our leaders to act as if their decisions are supported by the will of their particular god? Is it right to base policies in a belief system that can’t be proven?

Believe in whatever god you prefer. You have that right. So do I. But those beliefs shouldn’t be used to justify public policy. What candidates believe shouldn’t be under trial in a public forum, except for those aspects which involve them running their country.

I’d prefer to imagine an elective process contrary to what we have now. Critical thought and science education should be emphasized, and should not fall to the wayside behind religious pandering and supernatural defenses of political positions."

But back to those cartoons and "offensive' representations of some imaginary guy who may or may not have been real:

Jyllands-Posten-pg3-article-in-Sept-30-2005-edition-of-KulturWeekend-entitled-Muhammeds-ansigt.png
 
To answer your first inquiry: the Muslim world in general is regressive and it sees religion as its only salvation.

To respond to your second analysis, and as an educator who has studied the history, art and architecture of the Classical World to the present, religions are "created" with all the cultural amenities that this entails (meaning the historical artistic, and architectural fabrications to build identity, doctrine and control - which is, in point of fact, very human). But don't think science should be the one that teaches the critical thinking skills necessary, for that is not its objective - but to test hypothesis against verifiable results - rather it is the humanities which cultivate that skill: namely, gaining insight into the workings of human civilization, of which religion has played an integral role. Once one has arrived at a demystification of that role, one can begin to think clearly and embrace tolerance.

This is why science, in the absence of the humanities, leads to vapid ideology as with faith.
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PS. I read in the dailies today that the reason for all of the hullabaloo was because some Egyptian coptic Christians, who happen to reside in the US, made a film that showed the Prophet having sex.
 
Apr 26, 2010
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Joe Papp

Well said Joe!
Rhub, you are entirely too smart for your own good. You should "dumb it down" for us not so educated folks here. I had to break out a dictionary to translate that mumbo jumbo----;)
 
I think it is more sad that the film was made by Jewish bigots and designed to provoke just such a reaction but the group is given a free pass. You can bet if a bunch of neo-Nazis raised $5 million to make a film that got people killed then the Southern Poverty Law Center would be suing the ring leader.
 
May 29, 2012
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Apologies for being brief:

A person involved in such a film needn't give a f***.

A 4-year-old could have shown anyone on an Etch A Sketch what the highly likely consequences would be.

Such cartoons and films aren't going to help minimize or prevent violent/murderous reactions.

Maybe some people don't want an end to such violent/murderous reactions.
 
Apr 29, 2010
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Fact: Jesus is mentioned by name in the Quran more often than Mohammad.

Fact: I went to high school with a fellow named Mohammad Mohammad Mohammad. He was a solid footballer. We usually just called him Mohammad.
 
Mar 10, 2009
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Rip:30 said:
Fact: Jesus is mentioned by name in the Quran more often than Mohammad.

Fact: I went to high school with a fellow named Mohammad Mohammad Mohammad. He was a solid footballer. We usually just called him Mohammad.

Not Mo? Or Triple M, or Emm, en Emm, en Emm? Three Emm's, Ham?

Agh come on! Not one creative person in your high school?
 
Jun 18, 2009
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Why be tolerant of religious beliefs at all?

For some reason, religions have placed themselves above criticism and we have to respect whatever crazy sh*t people believe. I don't. It's all easily disprovable and nothing more than fairy tales. Take your religion and keep it to yourself and everything will be fine. Judaism, Christianity, Islam, it's all the same.
 
Mar 10, 2009
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richwagmn said:
Why be tolerant of religious beliefs at all?

For some reason, religions have placed themselves above criticism and we have to respect whatever crazy sh*t people believe. I don't. It's all easily disprovable and nothing more than fairy tales. Take your religion and keep it to yourself and everything will be fine. Judaism, Christianity, Islam, it's all the same.

Exactly! What next, someone says, "my religion is better than anyone other religion", instant war! :rolleyes:

Such little faith they have in their religion that any question causes total pandemonium.
 
Jul 7, 2009
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hrotha said:
Newsflash: not all Muslims are plane-hijacking, suicide-bombing fanatics.

If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck...
People use the above comment as an excuse. We are not all ignorant fools here. However, the terrorists that attacked the World Trade Center were Muslim. Please send me a note when hillbilly white rednecks start strapping bombs to themselves and blasting away buildings and hi-jacking planes. No, Timmy Mcveigh doesn't count, he was ****ed because the Branch Davidians got there butts in a sling with the Feds. Besides, he just left the VBIED in front of the building and tried to escape.
 
Jun 18, 2009
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JeffreyPerry said:
If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck...
People use the above comment as an excuse. We are not all ignorant fools here. However, the terrorists that attacked the World Trade Center were Muslim. Please send me a note when hillbilly white rednecks start strapping bombs to themselves and blasting away buildings and hi-jacking planes. No, Timmy Mcveigh doesn't count, he was ****ed because the Branch Davidians got there butts in a sling with the Feds. Besides, he just left the VBIED in front of the building and tried to escape.

Do you really want me to dig up all the sh*t that Christians have done over the years in the name of their religion? It's all the same buddy. All based on belief and nothing more.
 
Jul 7, 2009
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richwagmn said:
Do you really want me to dig up all the sh*t that Christians have done over the years in the name of their religion? It's all the same buddy. All based on belief and nothing more.

Sure. Post them in this thread and I'll read them all. I promise. I don't care if it was Muslim, Christian, Jewish or whatever the religious "flavor of the month" you'd like. I know who attacked the USA eleven years ago. As do you. I lost a relative on 9/11, and have lost friends since because of it. I defend this country for a living. I've been doing it for 14 years. I do it so people like you, YES YOU!, can sit in Minnesota (eh?) and moan about how bad it is for us to profile someone by their race, religion, or creed. Neither of those matter to me. Bad guys are bad guys. My job is to find them and ensure they are no longer capable of performing a terrorist act on this country's people.
Your welcome.
 
richwagmn said:
Do you really want me to dig up all the sh*t that Christians have done over the years in the name of their religion? It's all the same buddy. All based on belief and nothing more.

You don't understand. When a group is so angry at U.S. support of murderous regimes oppressing their people that they fight back, their evil religion is to blame. When right wing American nut jobs bomb people it's okay because, hey, they were p!ssed. Besides, having convictions strong enough to die for makes the "terrists" cowards while the American dude who killed hundreds tried to escape, so that shows he is not an evil fanatic. It's all quite simple.
 
JeffreyPerry said:
Sure. Post them in this thread and I'll read them all. I promise. The point is the most recent bad guys are Muslims, not Christians. Get over it. Until the Muslim community can prove that the percentage of bombers/terrorists = the number of white hillbilly bombers/terrorist, there is no competition.

Pull your head out. The Christan and Jewish fanatics in the Dubya administration are responsible for killing hundreds of thousands of people.
 
Jul 7, 2009
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BroDeal said:
Pull your head out. The Christan and Jewish fanatics in the Dubya administration are responsible for killing hundreds of thousands of people.

Now that was amazing Bro, I was pulling my head out and rewording my post, when lo and behold, you posted a comment about what I took out. Great timing there Bro.:D
 
Apr 18, 2010
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guns don't kill people, criminals with guns kill people.
religion itself in one of the many excuses that demented individuals use to persecute, terrorize and kill others. aren't muslims, jews and christians supposed to worship the same god ( i bet 99.9% of christian konw this). aren't most conflicts in the the balkans christians vs muslims.