Pros & Cons of a Vegan Diet for Weight Loss & Cycling Performance?

[King Boonen]

Not quite true. There are different levels of what is considered meat and/or non-meat.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vegetarianism

No, there aren't. There are people who just give up red meat, or will only eat fish, but there are not different levels of what is considered meat.

If you eat meat you are not a vegetarian.

 

[elapid]

One of the best ever Aussie Rule's footballers just keeps getting better ... on a paleo diet. Before DR starts to criticize the comparison of a professional footballer with other endurance sports, roaming positions like Gary Ablett plays will regularly run 20-25km in a 2hr game (let alone all the training during the week).

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/gary-abletts-paleo-diet-the-secret-to-his-success-20140325-hvmir.html

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/how-gary-ablett-became-just-a-little-bit-more-perfect-20140429-zr1f0.html

 

[bike_boy]

One of the best ever Aussie Rule's footballers just keeps getting better ... on a paleo diet. Before DR starts to criticize the comparison of a professional footballer with other endurance sports, roaming positions like Gary Ablett plays will regularly run 20-25km in a 2hr game (let alone all the training during the week).

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/gary-abletts-paleo-diet-the-secret-to-his-success-20140325-hvmir.html

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/how-gary-ablett-became-just-a-little-bit-more-perfect-20140429-zr1f0.html

Paleo diet is a fad, the article even stated he doesn't actually follow it properly. An athlete will perform poorly if they strictly follow the paleo diet. It's a good start in that it cuts processed fake food, but to low on carbs for my liking.

 

[stutue]

I rode 400k with a vegan yesterday and got my legs ripped off.

No issues with fitness or energy levels.

It was me who was hanging on for dear life all the way round.

 

[elapid]

No arguments with vegan diet per se (or any diet for that matter, hence the paleo diet post). DR is obviously a very good cyclist, as are other vegans. But there are plenty of very good cyclists (and athletes) consuming diets with varying protein and carbohydrate and fat contents, and from plant and animal sources, and performing just as well or better (and worse) than vegan athletes. DR is passionate about being vegan, which I have no issue with, but when his passion spills over to unenlightened denigration and intolerance of the dietary habits of others because of DR's good results alone (he is a walking anecdote) and all of his anti-non-vegan rheoteric remains unsubstantiated then I will take issue with this stance.

@ bike_boy - Paleo diets are not a fad. Every "fad" diet from the late 1800s onwards has centered on high protein, low carbohydrate diets. The latest of these have been Paleo, Atkins and South Beach diet. One of the problems with this thread has been the confusion of whether we are debating nutrition for endurance sports or diets for weight loss. For the latter, most of the evidence points towards low fat diets being ineffective for sustained weight loss and low carbohydrate (particularly refined/processed carbohydrates), high protein diets being the most effective.

 

[Ferminal]

An athlete will perform poorly if they strictly follow the paleo diet.

On what grounds? Depends on the effort I guess, long enough and you may need glucose to keep you going?

Aus cricket doctor:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JMuD4Z-Oxys

 

[bikedog]

long time vegan-vegetarian + cyclist

I became intrigued by your posts (DR et al) and, as a long time cyclist (prob 250K+ miles lifetime with ~140K miles in last 20yrs) and 40+ yr vegetarian-vegan, felt compelled to offer a perspective of the 'older vegetarian-vegan athlete'. Recently, I've become a bit more aware of the importance of gut biota and cross training which are key misunderstood components- from both fitness/weight loss perspectives and an overall health standpoint. Further, folks in different parts of the world might find that just eating fruit or super high carbohydrate diets for enhancing fitness/weight loss to be counterproductive/unhealthy. It is entirely possible to have a vegetarian or vegan diet full of junk foods (ie, chips, cookies, soda, etc.) without animal products. Thus, a diet with these compositions would be unlikely to produce much health or performance benefits. For instance, I recently ran a 10K in a pretty food savvy part of the world- the snack bag after was chock full of non nutritive crap (candy bars, chips, soda with HFCS, etc). Frankly, the organic bacon smoothies offered by the spectators along the route might have been a healthier snack choice.

So, IMHO you have to strike a balance. It is true that many high profile athletes (Dave Scott, Carl Lewis, Robt Parish, Adrian Foster/Aaron Hernandez, Scott Jurek, Navratilova, etc) have been vegetarian or vegan. Thus, there's a good body of both evidence over a considerable period of time that it's a workable / successful strategy. What may be missing is how they manage things on a day to day (or longer) basis. For instance, Jurek wrote an article (Competitor magazine) recently where he stated that during the winter/fall months, he ratchets down the training and gains some weight (like 5-10 lbs) to recalibrate his system. A few yrs back I was 60-62kg which was simply too light for the type of riding I do in CO and hard to maintain over a year to year basis (ie, too little body fat to maintain comfort in sub freezing weather). Thus, I allowed myself to gain a few kg which was a more optimal and healthier weight point for me personally. I didn't find it limited my climbing or overall fitness and I felt/looked better for my height.

At different times of the year, different foods (both organic and non organic) are available and plentiful; perhaps necessary for long term health and fitness. For instance, there is more to the calcium and osteoporosis issue than calcium supplements- IIRC it's really more a balance between Ca/Mg and phosphorus based on some of the reading I've done. Robbin's _Diet for a New America_ had a nice explanation on the topic.

While food choices and sports hobbies can be personal, they're also inherently social activities and geared towards optimal health. Further, being able to have some intelligent dialogue about these without entrenched responses from different perspectives is healthy as well.

 

[elapid]

While food choices and sports hobbies can be personal, they're also inherently social activities and geared towards optimal health. Further, being able to have some intelligent dialogue about these without entrenched responses from different perspectives is healthy as well.

+1. Well said.

 

[Amazinmets73]

Durian, I'm a high carb, low fat vegan. 5'11, 153 pounds. What's your opinion on plant based vegan protein powders? Still too hard on your kidneys?

 

[Amazinmets73]

I'll be the first to say Durian is correct. I've been a vegan 15 months, and a low fat, high carb vegan for about 4 months. It's incredible how you can eat and the weight just burns right off. I'm now less than 10% body fat, and seeing veins in my arms and legs I never knew existed.

 

[Amazinmets73]

I try to eat less than 30 grams of fat per day, but no restrictions on calories or sugar. However, this article says that fat is one of the most important things for a rider.
http://cyclistsinternational.com/how-to-eat-like-a-tour-de-france-pro/

 

[StyrbjornSterki]

Health officials warn of vegan dangers for kids

As veganism gains popularity in Switzerland, federal authorities are warning that a diet without animal products carries health risks for young children.

 

[BigMac]

Health officials warn of vegan dangers for kids

As veganism gains popularity in Switzerland, federal authorities are warning that a diet without animal products carries health risks for young children.

Nonsence. A balanced vegan diet is not only healthy, it is beneficial. If people cannot meet their RDD, just take supplements. They are cheap, you know. And that article is so vague. They state 'dangers', yet only mention B12, and then supposedly quote federal authorities but provide no sources.

 

[kingjr]

Eating animals tastes better than food supplements though.

 

[TheSpud]

I'll be the first to say Durian is correct. I've been a vegan 15 months, and a low fat, high carb vegan for about 4 months. It's incredible how you can eat and the weight just burns right off. I'm now less than 10% body fat, and seeing veins in my arms and legs I never knew existed.

Is the weight coming off because you are vegan or because by being on a low fat / hi carb diet you are having a lower calorie intake than before do you think? (Genuine question not trying to start a flame war).

The reason I ask is that I could see that a similar thing could be obtained if you still continued to eat meat / dairy - for instance skinless, grilled chicken breast (or pork loin) is virtually fat free (and therefore low calorie).

Vegetables (and fruit) are fantastic for weight loss (as long as they are not smothered in butter, cream, etc - which in a vegan diet of course they wouldnt be) - you get full long before you hit your daily target calories.

Also since you became vegan have you trained harder at all or at the same level? Again just trying to judge what is causing the weight / body change - ie is it some 'miracle' diet like the ones the celebs claim or is it just basic physiology : less calories taken in than used up = weight loss.

 

[TheSpud]

Nonsence. A balanced vegan diet is not only healthy, it is beneficial. If people cannot meet their RDD, just take supplements. They are cheap, you know. And that article is so vague. They state 'dangers', yet only mention B12, and then supposedly quote federal authorities but provide no sources.

For Vitamin B12 just eat Marmite (in the UK), probably called 'Yeast Extract Spread' elsewhere. Not sure exactly how Vegemite in Australia compares but as far as I know its pretty similar.

 

[DirtyWorks]

Nonsence. A balanced vegan diet is not only healthy, it is beneficial. If people cannot meet their RDD, just take supplements. They are cheap, you know. And that article is so vague. They state 'dangers', yet only mention B12, and then supposedly quote federal authorities but provide no sources.

Except some people don't respond well to vegan diets while others do.

I know I didn't. I know my SO didn't. I realize that's just two data points, so it's not conclusive evidence of anything.

If it works for you, then great. I have a hard time with some of the vegan claims because they are pretty strong sometimes.

 

[Tapeworm]

^ pure curiosity, when you say "it didn't work" what aspects are you referring to? What was the time frame of the diet and ballpark foods consumed?

I am neither pro or con vegan diet, but some of my athletes are or enquire about it, more info from more people is better.

 

[JamesHavey]

Except some people don't respond well to vegan diets while others do.

I know I didn't. I know my SO didn't. I realize that's just two data points, so it's not conclusive evidence of anything.

If it works for you, then great. I have a hard time with some of the vegan claims because they are pretty strong sometimes.

I read about similar topic before. Some people have good capacity to metabolize carbs and some don't. Same with animal protein and fat. We need to find what kind of body we have, and set up the diet plan accordingly...

 

[oldcrank]

For Vitamin B12 just eat Marmite (in the UK), probably called 'Yeast Extract Spread' elsewhere. Not sure exactly how Vegemite in Australia compares but as far as I know its pretty similar.

Of the Australian yeast extract spreads, Vegemite and
Promite have no B12, but AussieMite does, my friend.
http://www.aussiemite.com.au
Also, some nutritional yeast flakes have added B12.

 

[elapid]

Never really been sure if this thread is about nutrition and athletic performance or nutrition and weight loss. Here is an interesting interview discussing low carb (or alternatively high protein-high fat) diets for weight loss as well as endurance sports:

http://www.abc.net.au/catalyst/lowcarb/default.htm

 

[Granville57]

Nonsence. A balanced vegan diet is not only healthy, it is beneficial.

Nonsense indeed.

If people cannot meet their RDD, just take supplements. They are cheap, you know.

And for good reason. Most of them are useless.

 

[twothirds]

Nonsence. A balanced vegan diet is not only healthy, it is beneficial. If people cannot meet their RDD, just take supplements. They are cheap, you know. And that article is so vague. They state 'dangers', yet only mention B12, and then supposedly quote federal authorities but provide no sources.

If you cannot get your needs met by whatever diet you're on, then it's not healthy.

 

[Granville57]

Seeing that this is a Durian thread, I've no interest in reading through the entirety of it, but if this hasn't been linked already, I'm sure some of you will find it interesting (not sure why it remained in the PRR sub-forum though).

http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread.php?t=14261&highlight=vegan

American David Zabriskie Aims to Compete in the World's Most Grueling Bike Race—As a Vegan*

 

[Granville57]

^ pure curiosity, when you say "it didn't work" what aspects are you referring to?

If I may, I'll respond to this with a link from the past.

<snip>a waste of time<snip>

Ive NEVER met a depressed person that was eating over 10g of carbs per kg of bodyweight per day. EVER. Once we start doing that for a few weeks then we notice profound shifts in mental state. Then we start to hydrate and sleep proper as a result. (cant hydrate/sleep proper when your undercarbed).

<snip>pay attention<snip>

I guess this is what it took for me to finally acknowledge your ridiculousness. There can certainly be no doubt that you are an expert on all things you. But don't be so irresponsible as to suggest that you somehow have insight into everyone else.

Speaking for myself, which is all I would ever attempt to do on this topic: Everything you state above is 100% wrong.

By following a program that is pretty much the antithesis to everything your carry on about, I found myself in the best shape of my life after decades of struggling with erratic sleep, dramatic mood swings, and dark holes of depression.

Without rehashing too much of a very old and tired debate, it was in the hopes of overcoming years of fatigue and depression that I became a vegetarian for several years and a fairly strict vegan for three of those years. But not once did I ever preach about it to anyone else because I would have no way of knowing what works for other people.

A series of events led me to explore the Atkins "diet." It changed my life. By switching to a high protein, very low carb regimen, I noticed many changes, all of which were beneficial.

I became leaner and more fit than at any time in my life.
For the first time ever, I was able to go to bed early in the evening and wake up very early in the morning after a night of undisturbed sleep.
I was more mentally alert and my energy levels were more consistent than they had ever been.
All my signs of depression disappeared.

I was cycling, running and hitting the gym more consistently than at any time previous in my life.
In my early forties I was easily in the best overall shape of my life.
It was during this period that I sacrificed time on my bike to focus on running, and to successfully train for my first marathon and compete in duathlons. I never once ate a high-carb diet prior to a race.

Eating this way proved to be extremely effective for me and I learned, in time, just when and how much carb consumption I could get away with (I never said they didn't taste good, and they are neccesary, for me, during long rides and intense racing). And when I did consume carbs, my body processed them much more efficiently.

I also learned that the darkness of depression can easily return if my carb intake (and no, I'm not just talking about refined sugars and the like here) goes beyond a certain level. What you recommend would be nothing short of disastrous for me.

Everyone needs to find their own path.
To suggest otherwise, with self-absorbed blanket statements, is pure idiocy.
And in this case, quite possibly hugely irresponsible.