Protour licenses

[hrotha]

because race organisers want to give out more wildcards. although it now changes since only 17 teams have startright for their races now

Huh? I think we're talking of different things. I meant the rule where non-PT teams get 18 points to spend in PT races, not about there being 18 PT teams.

 

[janraaskalt]

Do you have a link for that? I've tried to find information about the status of the 18-point system but all I've found is references to the initial news in May.

Although not explicit, you can read the result between the lines here: http://www.uci.ch/Modules/ENews/ENe...p?MenuId=MTI2Mjc&LangId=1&1602917X57X56Page=3

At this meeting (june 18th) it had to be adopted. However:
"The Management Committee also defined the regulations for participation in the 2011 UCI World Calendar events.
The UCI ProTeams – of which there will be a maximum of 18 – will be obliged to participate in UCI ProTour races. The top 17 UCI Professional Continental Teams of the 2010 UCI World Ranking will also have the right to participate.
As for the Monument events, these shall invite the 17 best teams of the 2010 UCI World Ranking.

This formula represents a compromise with the organisers of Monument events. The UCI sincerely regrets that these organisers ultimately rejected the principle of the automatic participation of UCI ProTeams in their events. However, negotiations with the organisers led to an agreement, reached in particular as a result of an increased consideration of teams’ sporting values, one of the organisers’ main requests. The UCI has nevertheless decided to retain the principle it has adopted for its system of awarding UCI ProTour licences."

The 18-point system was a part of the proposed system that allowed all ProTour teams to start in all PT/Hist events.

 

[Timmy-loves-Rabo]

The 18 point-system rule is a joke, it will only encourage race organizers to rebel against the uci.

it simply wont go down well.

 

[ingsve]

Although not explicit, you can read the result between the lines here: http://www.uci.ch/Modules/ENews/ENe...p?MenuId=MTI2Mjc&LangId=1&1602917X57X56Page=3

At this meeting (june 18th) it had to be adopted. However:
"The Management Committee also defined the regulations for participation in the 2011 UCI World Calendar events.
The UCI ProTeams – of which there will be a maximum of 18 – will be obliged to participate in UCI ProTour races. The top 17 UCI Professional Continental Teams of the 2010 UCI World Ranking will also have the right to participate.
As for the Monument events, these shall invite the 17 best teams of the 2010 UCI World Ranking.

This formula represents a compromise with the organisers of Monument events. The UCI sincerely regrets that these organisers ultimately rejected the principle of the automatic participation of UCI ProTeams in their events. However, negotiations with the organisers led to an agreement, reached in particular as a result of an increased consideration of teams’ sporting values, one of the organisers’ main requests. The UCI has nevertheless decided to retain the principle it has adopted for its system of awarding UCI ProTour licences."

Ya, I read that but I didn't get the impression that they had dropped the 18-points system. This is pretty much a formal desicion of the proposal that was mentioned in May. The only indication that the 18-point system might be dropped is that it wasn't mentioned in the press release but that's a fairly vague indication.

Although the silence about the 18-point system since May might be an indication that it actually is scrapped.

The 18-point system was a part of the proposed system that allowed all ProTour teams to start in all PT/Hist events.

My understading was that the 18-point system was part of hte exact system that is mentioned in the linked press release.

 

[janraaskalt]

Although the silence about the 18-point system since May might be an indication that it actually is scrapped.

You're right about that.

The idea behind the 18-points system is nice, but it is too strict. Needing 9 points for the Tour the France, a team can barely prepare for the Tour. Besides the Tour, riding only the Dauphine and 1 one day classics and your 18 points are gone.

It would be better to have 12 major teams that are allowed to start in all 3 major Tours. Then a bunch, say 9, that are allowed to start in 2 major Tours and 10-12 others that are allowed to start in 1 major Tour. Let's see how this works out and maybe use it in the smaller Tours and classics as well.

 

[luckyboy]

I don't see how the UCI could stop organizers inviting who they want anyway. I mean, the ASO has the Tour, Vuelta, Paris-Nice, Dauphine, Roubaix, Liege and Fleche. Don't really see what power they have to stop them inviting say, Cofidis, to all of these.

 

[aahmadhu]

You're right about that.

The idea behind the 18-points system is nice, but it is too strict. Needing 9 points for the Tour the France, a team can barely prepare for the Tour. Besides the Tour, riding only the Dauphine and 1 one day classics and your 18 points are gone.

It would be better to have 12 major teams that are allowed to start in all 3 major Tours. Then a bunch, say 9, that are allowed to start in 2 major Tours and 10-12 others that are allowed to start in 1 major Tour. Let's see how this works out and maybe use it in the smaller Tours and classics as well.

i like that distribution idea. sounds fair, eliminates some of the political element of gaining entry into a GT. that should be discussed further in my opinion.

 

[ingsve]

There are 18 currently. I don't believe the number will succeed this.

Ag2r-La Mondiale (2012)
Astana (2010)
Caisse d'Epargne (2010)
Euskaltel-Euskadi (2010)
FDJ (2010)
Footon-Servetto-Fuji (2010)
Garmin-Transitions (2011)
Lampre (2013)
Liquigas-Doimo (2010)
Quick Step (2011)
Rabobank (2012)
Omega Pharma-Lotto (2011)
Team HTC-Columbia (2010)
Team Katusha (2010)
Team Milram (2010)
Team RadioShack (2013)
Team Saxo Bank (2011)
Team Sky (2013)

therefore if there is to be only 18 teams, and only milram loses its spot than only 1 spot is up. Knowing the uci the schlecks will get it. I rate vasc. little to no chance.

Well, even if some of those teams want to renew their license doesn't mean they will succeed. Since the team strength will play an even bigger role when deciding what teams will be in the PT it is very possible for a team like Vacansoleil to recruit strong riders so that they have a stronger team that some of the existing teams. Having had a license before does not give you any special advantages in that regard. The teams that want to stay in the PT need to make sure they still have a strong enough team to justify it or they will be gone simply by strength alone.

Had Geox not stepped in Footon-Servetto would have been gone for sure but now they have a fighting chance of getting a stronger team to keep the license. I still think they could be in trouble though.

As I see it there are nine open spots in the PT.

Teams that are certain to get a new license:

Team Katyusha
HTC-Columbia
Liquigas-Doimo

Teams that are almost certain:

Astana
Caisse d'Epargne (Mobistar)

Teams in danger:

FDJ
Geox
Euskaltel-Euskadi

Almost certainly gone:

Team Milram

New teams that are challenging those in danger:

Team Schleck
Vacansoleil
BMC
Cervelo TT
Fly V

First of all the teams that are wanting to move up to the PT needs to fullfil the adminitrative requirements to be in with a shot. If we assume that none of the teams will fail on that regard then it will all be up to what teams will be able to recruit the best riders going into next season.

Team Schleck will of course have a really strong team so they will be almost certain. The seconds strongest team right now is surely BMC racing given all the points that Evans has collected. Then follows Cervelo and Euskaltel but they will lose Sastre and probably Intxausti so that will lose them stength. Geox has already gained Sastre and will probably have the budget to gain even more strength. Vacansoleil has some good riders but don't have that many points in the world ranking which I think is what will count. FDJ is possibly the weakest given that Geox has already gotten Sastre. And finally Fly V is completely unknown with regards to their strength.

I would rate the teams chances right now as follows:

Team Schleck
BMC
Geox
Cervelo TT
Euskaltel
Vacansoleil
FDJ
Fly V

This is mainly based on this years World Ranking however and I think that they will be looking two years back so some of these can be a little off.

At any rate the transfer market will be very important for these teams.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

Teams in danger:

FDJ
Geox
Euskaltel-Euskadi

how do you know wether these teams are in danger?? so far all 3 teams have gotten renewals everytime they wanted them.

 

[Roude Leiw]

i like that distribution idea. sounds fair, eliminates some of the political element of gaining entry into a GT. that should be discussed further in my opinion.

The possibility to manoeuver is the point! Organisers want those to race which are the most interesting for them in terms of media coverage, not the ones coming with a farm team because they got the PT license and start just because they can (eg footon at this years tour or some french teams at the giro etc.)

 

[Vonn Brinkman]

What will probably happen in the end:

Milram will go out.
Schleck's will go in.
Otherwise no changes.
Vacansoleil will explode with rage, Cervelo won't mind, BMC won't mind and Fly V should be happy enough to have a Pro Cont. license.

 

[ingsve]

Teams in danger:

FDJ
Geox
Euskaltel-Euskadi

how do you know wether these teams are in danger?? so far all 3 teams have gotten renewals everytime they wanted them.

Just based on team strength compared to the other teams. There is a change in the rules this year that makes the strength of the team more important so the weakest teams will always be in danger when there are new teams wanting to join. Just because they're in danger doesn't mean they won't get renewed. It's just that if any more teams go then it will be one of these first probably.

 

[jobiwan]

What will probably happen in the end:

Milram will go out.
Schleck's will go in.
Otherwise no changes.
Vacansoleil will explode with rage, Cervelo won't mind, BMC won't mind and Fly V should be happy enough to have a Pro Cont. license.

Yep.
Can't see much else happening, and Cervelo and BMC will still get into the big races.

 

[taiwan]

It's really taking the **** if Vacansoleil get snubbed again IMO. They were already one of the strongest teams in the classics and then signed Devolder and Thomas De Gendt, and Ricco is time served and has shown he'll be competitive in stage races. I'm looking forward to them next year more than any team, personally.

 

[luckyboy]

Are Euskaltel definitely trying to stay in the PT now? Or just accepting going down to ProConti..

 

[Michele]

The last rumors said that the sponsor would keep the same budget as last year(s).

 

[luckyboy]

Ah ok, so they applied for a PT place then.

 

[Arnout]

Are Euskaltel definitely trying to stay in the PT now? Or just accepting going down to ProConti..

According to latest messages, they will reapply for ProTour.

 

[auscyclefan94]

Is the PT going to be 18 teams next year? Because if you take away Milram there's only gonna be one space. Are Euskaltel still planning to drop down though?

Vacansoleil, BMC or the Schleck team are the only ones I can see getting in really. Thought the Fly V thing was a joke tbh. They should just try for ProConti.

Fly V may get in in the same way sky got in. I am very interested to find out who is the major sponsor who is backing them. Any guesses?

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

even when getting a pt license that doesn't mena you will ride the historical races and gt;s right?? only the top 17 teams of ranking to be made at the end of this year, those teams will be allowed to start automatically right?? so some teams who may get pt license will be left out of gt's next year.

 

[Arnout]

even when getting a pt license that doesn't mena you will ride the historical races and gt;s right?? only the top 17 teams of ranking to be made at the end of this year, those teams will be allowed to start automatically right?? so some teams who may get pt license will be left out of gt's next year.

Possibly, but there are more than 18 places of course and I believe all first 17 teams are ProTour teams.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

Possibly, but there are more than 18 places of course and I believe all first 17 teams are ProTour teams.

yeah so that autoamtically means at least 1 pt team won't get in on the gt's. since only 17 spots automatically and other 5 are wildcards given mostly to local and interesting teams. franc ealone has at least 3 pct teams next year

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Androni Giocattoli are currently ranked 16th, I thought.

 

[karlboss]

According to latest messages, they will reapply for ProTour.

Euskaltel should enjoy pro conti status as Cervelo has, and never have to worry about putting their riders on cobbles again

I don't really agree with Fly V going pro conti. It's the right step in terms of devlopment, but i think financially it wouldn't really make sense. To be competitive I think they would have to inject more money than this year, for little more exposure. Remembering they are an australian team sponsored by an airline which doesn't fly into europe. If they want to guarantee exposure then protour is the way to go. Though I imagine they would be soft for a year or so. However a protour license ahead of some of the other teams seems a little rich. I am an aussie and giving the guys who ride for Fly-V now (and assorted others riding pro-conti and protour in obscurity) the opportunity to ride against the best is why I think us aussie's should have a pro-tour team.

 

[jaylew]

Possibly, but there are more than 18 places of course and I believe all first 17 teams are ProTour teams.

BMC, Cervelo, and Androni are all in the top 17 and not PT.