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Protour licenses

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Mar 13, 2009
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PS Protour is broken and needs a rethink. Any ideas? The stated aim was a good one "best riders to the best races". Maybe it will always be fundamentally be broken as say Contador is the best rider, and paris roubaix is one of the best races, but the 2 don't go together to make great racing and why should having Contador on your team guarantee you can go to PR?
 
karlboss said:
I am an aussie and giving the guys who ride for Fly-V now (and assorted others riding pro-conti and protour in obscurity) the opportunity to ride against the best is why I think us aussie's should have a pro-tour team.

And what about those guys who already ARE the best, who wouldn't be getting a chance to ride against the other best because some Aussies who haven't a hope in hell of being competitive in their first year have got their ticket?

After all, lots of countries want a ProTour team, but that doesn't mean that it would be right to give them one. There are a lot of teams who are much further along the development front who could acquit themselves at ProTour level better than Fly V.

Also, I hate the idea of quasi-nationalist teams. Will Britons cheer EBH against Cavendish? Would Russians cheer Joaquím Rodríguez against Denis Menchov?

No, without some kind of big ticket buy (and bigger than the likes of Mick Rogers, too. Only Cadel of Australians in the péloton has the required profile) Fly V will remain the least likely of the contenders to get that ProTour slot, as long as there is any justice in the world.

It's not that Fly V shouldn't get a ProTour slot, it's that they shouldn't get one NOW, against the strong field of people fighting for that licence.
 
Mar 31, 2010
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Libertine Seguros said:
Androni Giocattoli are currently ranked 16th, I thought.

yeah but that's not the list going to e used, at the end of the year every riders gets a rank or something so whjoever has best ranked riders in the teams fill up the top 17
 
Ryo Hazuki said:
yeah but that's not the list going to e used, at the end of the year every riders gets a rank or something so whjoever has best ranked riders in the teams fill up the top 17

Yeah, I forgot about that. With Scarponi leaving, that means Androni is going to be out seeing as he has almost all their points.
 
Mar 13, 2009
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Libertine Seguros said:
And what about those guys who already ARE the best, who wouldn't be getting a chance to ride against the other best because some Aussies who haven't a hope in hell of being competitive in their first year have got their ticket?

After all, lots of countries want a ProTour team, but that doesn't mean that it would be right to give them one. There are a lot of teams who are much further along the development front who could acquit themselves at ProTour level better than Fly V.

Also, I hate the idea of quasi-nationalist teams. Will Britons cheer EBH against Cavendish? Would Russians cheer Joaquím Rodríguez against Denis Menchov?

No, without some kind of big ticket buy (and bigger than the likes of Mick Rogers, too. Only Cadel of Australians in the péloton has the required profile) Fly V will remain the least likely of the contenders to get that ProTour slot, as long as there is any justice in the world.

It's not that Fly V shouldn't get a ProTour slot, it's that they shouldn't get one NOW, against the strong field of people fighting for that licence.

FYI a bit rich, means expecting too much, ie won't happen.
 
Mar 13, 2009
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Ryo Hazuki said:
australia doesn't need a pt team at all, already all good australians ride in europe for top teams

perhaps I'll give you all the best riders are already in europe, not all good australian riders. I suppose the need for a protour team depends on your perspective. For me it isn't about seeing an australian win the tour de france on an australian team, it's about seeing talented riders given a chance. The more opportunities there are the more top riders we'll develop.

If you think Protour teams choose the best riders regardless of nationality, maybe you should take a look through some of the protour rosters.
 
if you want riders to DEVELOP, then the ProTour is not the platform you want. If you're developing riders, you need them to be developing underneath a solid top level base (which Fly V cannot provide - and which Australians have seemingly done better from for going to lots of different teams that suit their goals, rather than all being together in one team), or you need a specific development team, like TopSport Vlaanderen, in which case being ProContinental is a much better proposition.
 
Mar 13, 2009
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Libertine Seguros said:
if you want riders to DEVELOP, then the ProTour is not the platform you want. If you're developing riders, you need them to be developing underneath a solid top level base (which Fly V cannot provide - and which Australians have seemingly done better from for going to lots of different teams that suit their goals, rather than all being together in one team), or you need a specific development team, like TopSport Vlaanderen, in which case being ProContinental is a much better proposition.

There are different levels of development, I doubt any rider was at their best first year in a protour team, so I guess they developed a little on that team, no?
 
karlboss said:
PS Protour is broken and needs a rethink. Any ideas? The stated aim was a good one "best riders to the best races". Maybe it will always be fundamentally be broken as say Contador is the best rider, and paris roubaix is one of the best races, but the 2 don't go together to make great racing and why should having Contador on your team guarantee you can go to PR?

There should be a second type of point total for all riders in which points are accumulated for finishing races. Different races have different "finishing" points, and all the major races have a minimum point total that is required to participate. No more doing nothing for half the season and then riding the Tour.
 
Jun 9, 2010
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joy118118 said:
Why do Team Schleck need PT license? They peak only in Ardennes Classics and Le Tour. PCT's 18 points is enough for them :p

So true... Also They are not going to have an strong team to race in a high level in every race that they are going to be in case of getting a PT license...

Now that Vacansoleil signed Il Cobra I really wish that they can get a PT License... they are going to have a really nice team for Classics and for GTs... Riccó! you'll have the team, now we need that you can raise your level to be with the top 5 in the climbs!
 
Jun 16, 2009
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Ryo Hazuki said:
australia doesn't need a pt team at all, already all good australians ride in europe for top teams
I would disagree. Why does any country have and want their nation to have a pro team? It is good exposure for cycling in aus and imo it provides a good foundation for australian riders to get into a top team.

Though, I would love to see an Aussie pro team asap but I think Fly V needs to wait in line a bit like some of the other teams have but the UCI seems to disregard the "wait your turn" ethics as Sky and Radioshack immediately got in from starting up there team.

I am very interested to hear which aussie and european pros they have been in talks with. Does anyone have any idea of who may be the major sponsor for Fly V?
 
Jul 31, 2010
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Ryaguas said:
So true... Also They are not going to have an strong team to race in a high level in every race that they are going to be in case of getting a PT license...

Do you know something we don't? Otherwise, I think that statement is rather premature given we don't know who - apart from the Schlecks - will be in the team. The rest is all conjecture.

And speaking of an Australian team, thiswas posted on SMH. Doesn't say anything new, but interesting to see a timeline process.
 
karlboss said:
There are different levels of development, I doubt any rider was at their best first year in a protour team, so I guess they developed a little on that team, no?

Yes, but you're talking a team comprised almost entirely of riders who would be at their first year on a ProTour team, while there are teams comprising many riders with ProTour experience, riders without ProTour experience but with experience at riding major races in Europe, and development riders, who would be shafted to make room for them.

This year, they don't deserve it. There are better teams out there that deserve those PT slots.
Given that he only has a core of about 10 riders, the team boss is going to have to work overtime to get people in to make the team look strong enough, especially now Rogers has turned them down. Unzué had a core of 8, but he did have a whole squad, many of whom he could re-sign, to help make up those numbers. Fly V would have to build that from scratch.

As for riding all three GTs, it's a fair enough goal, after Cervélo and Sky did it. But Katyusha (ProTour) didn't, nor did Radioshack. Since the ProTour isn't a guarantor of a place, I'd be surprised if they got a Giro slot unless they sign some Italians like Sky did - with the teams they have to invite plus myriad Italian ProContinental teams, that will be the hardest one to get into.

Then again, a lot of the talking about getting into the Tour is bluster, because it helps attract sponsors and keep them happy - especially for Anglophone teams where the Tour is the only major race for them. Even Scott-Marcondes César were talking about getting into the Tour in a couple of years when they went ProContinental last year, and we all know they haven't a chance.
 
May 6, 2009
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Libertine Seguros said:
Yes, but you're talking a team comprised almost entirely of riders who would be at their first year on a ProTour team, while there are teams comprising many riders with ProTour experience, riders without ProTour experience but with experience at riding major races in Europe, and development riders, who would be shafted to make room for them.

This year, they don't deserve it. There are better teams out there that deserve those PT slots.
Given that he only has a core of about 10 riders, the team boss is going to have to work overtime to get people in to make the team look strong enough, especially now Rogers has turned them down. Unzué had a core of 8, but he did have a whole squad, many of whom he could re-sign, to help make up those numbers. Fly V would have to build that from scratch.

As for riding all three GTs, it's a fair enough goal, after Cervélo and Sky did it. But Katyusha (ProTour) didn't, nor did Radioshack. Since the ProTour isn't a guarantor of a place, I'd be surprised if they got a Giro slot unless they sign some Italians like Sky did - with the teams they have to invite plus myriad Italian ProContinental teams, that will be the hardest one to get into.

Then again, a lot of the talking about getting into the Tour is bluster, because it helps attract sponsors and keep them happy - especially for Anglophone teams where the Tour is the only major race for them. Even Scott-Marcondes César were talking about getting into the Tour in a couple of years when they went ProContinental last year, and we all know they haven't a chance.

You know in some ways I would like to see that happen, much like when the Colombians came over in the 80's. But yeah, Fly V should cut their teeth at Pro Continental level, and maybe ask for a wild card to the Tour Down Under, then try to go Pro Tour at this stage. Cantwell is at this stage a Continental level sprinter at this stage.
 
Jan 18, 2010
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According to CN Cervelo have opted to remain Pro Continental.
I'd be interested to know the applicants for pro conti next year. A British team would be nice.
 
Aug 26, 2009
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There are 28 teams interested to be professional, but you have to think that there are other six (the team that finally don't achieve the ProTour licence).

The most logical is to think that 21 are the team that has been professional teams in 2010.

And you can add:
UNITED HEALTHCARE
TYPE1
SPIDERTECH
PETROCHEMICAL TABRIZ
COLOMBIA ES PASIÓN
CAJA RURAL
BRETAGNE

I don't know if there are other teams. But these sevend showed his interest.
 
sublimit said:
According to CN Cervelo have opted to remain Pro Continental.
I'd be interested to know the applicants for pro conti next year. A British team would be nice.

Isn't it enough with Team Sky?

Personally I would like to see a scandinavian pro conti team. Ideally would be if Team Sprocket, Joker - Bianchi and Sparebanken Vest merged their teams. I think they ought to be able to get a good enough budget to have decent pro conti team from it. That team would also have a slight british flavor from Magnus Bäckstedts team Sprocket.
 
The whole Pro Tour licence system is open to abuse; from the UCI, to teams that have but one interest in life.
The UCI can hand this magical parchment to any outfit it pleases. If their faces fits, they are in. If they fill a slot in a global niche, they're in.
If the appropriate brown envelope appears in Pat's Aigle pigeon hole, they're in.
Once a member, you can do as you please, providing you turn up to races, other than the TDF, in sufficient strength to acquire the requisite points.

Sorry for having to use Radio Shack as a prime example of a team abusing their given stature, but they are the glaring example.

Take Liquigas. They have entered at least one "big name", at almost every race they ridden, this season, be it PT or just an everyday event.

Other than at Cali, Switzerland (a training ride) and the Tour, where have we seen Lance, Levi or Kloden?
The Tour of Poland, ENECO, SS and Vattenfall, plus the numerous undercard events have had the undercard squad.
Had they been handed a Vuelta invite, (almost guaranteed under next year's system) none of the above would have appeared.

In closing the shop with this new system, the UCI are reestablishing the importance of the PT licence, but further reducing the standard of the PT calander
 
Mar 8, 2010
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My first thought, before I had a look was:
Very sad, that RS already has the license, because otherwise there would be 500+ posts in here right now.

But RS seems to be topic anyway. lol :D
 
Jan 18, 2010
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Isn't it enough with Team Sky?

We have the protour team, I'd like to see a couple of the semi pro British teams merge and become pro-conti..

If the appropriate brown envelope appears in Pat's Aigle pigeon hole, they're in.
Once a member, you can do as you please, providing you turn up to races, other than the TDF, in sufficient strength to acquire the requisite points.

This is it. Thats why the UCI administrators should replaced as soon as possible.
 
Mar 8, 2010
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Mellow Velo said:
The whole Pro Tour licence system is open to abuse; from the UCI, to teams that have but one interest in life.
The UCI can hand this magical parchment to any outfit it pleases. If their faces fits, they are in. If they fill a slot in a global niche, they're in.
If the appropriate brown envelope appears in Pat's Aigle pigeon hole, they're in.
Once a member, you can do as you please, providing you turn up to races, other than the TDF, in sufficient strength to acquire the requisite points.

Sorry for having to use Radio Shack as a prime example of a team abusing their given stature, but they are the glaring example.

Take Liquigas. They have entered at least one "big name", at almost every race they ridden, this season, be it PT or just an everyday event.

Other than at Cali, Switzerland (a training ride) and the Tour, where have we seen Lance, Levi or Kloden?
The Tour of Poland, ENECO, SS and Vattenfall, plus the numerous undercard events have had the undercard squad.
Had they been handed a Vuelta invite, (almost guaranteed under next year's system) none of the above would have appeared.

In closing the shop with this new system, the UCI are reestablishing the importance of the PT licence, but further reducing the standard of the PT calander

Just open your eyes.
Leipheimer rode P-N for example...Klöden rides at Eneco.
Suisse was just training ride uhmmmmmm, yes of course. Just get serious, man.
And I think Brajko should be sorry for winning the DL, shouldn´t he ?

Rest is just your speculation.
 
May 15, 2009
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Cobblestoned said:
Just open your eyes.
Leipheimer rode P-N for example...Klöden rides at Eneco.
Suisse was just training ride uhmmmmmm, yes of course. Just get serious, man.
And I think Brajko should be sorry for winning the DL, shouldn´t he ?

Rest is just your speculation.

Leipheimer was nowhere in PN. When did Kloeden go deep in a post-Tour race last time?
 
The argument presented here in favour of Fly V seems to be that it would be nice for Australia to have a quasi-national team: let's hope that the UCI don't give any priority to that as a reason.

My reading of the June press release is that the 18 point scheme is dead: it is incompatible with the announcement of the top 17 having right of entry to 3 GTs and the monuments (that would have "cost" 51 points).

The idea that Katusha's licence was up for renewal is an error, I believe copied from Wikipedia: we now have the definitive list of applicants.

To renew:
Astana
Euskaltel
Milram (by another name)
FdJ
Footon/Geox
Liquigas
HTC
Caisse d'Epargne/Telefonica

To gain/regain entry:
Bbox
BMC
Cofidis
FlyV
Schlecklux
Vacansoleil

So, 8 of 14 to be successful: can't see any of Astana/Liquigas/GCE/HTC not gaining renewal, and I suspect that the natural inertia of membership, plus promised signings, should see Euskaltel and Geox through. Milram's future plans are terminally ill-defined, and FdJ are in for a squeaky bum time.

So, maybe two of the six new applicants will have a chance. I don't see Bbox or Cofidis being invited back, as they have not strengthened since they were last in, and were very much at the bottom of the ladder then, and unceremoniously removed to make way for Radioshack and Sky: FlyV's application is, at the moment, so much out of the blue and vague that it seems hard to treat it as much more that a publicity stunt to assist going for Pro-Continental status.
BMC's advantage, and Vacansoleil's disadvantage, is the celebrity/Anglophone profile that the UCI are currently keen on, and the Luxembourg project seems to be positioning itself as this years RSH: big (anonymous until eleventh hour) backers, rider(s) who the organisers would not dare to be without.

The 8 out of 14 seems to boil down to 6, plus 2 out of 4; as to which two of BMC/Lux/Vacan/FdJ, I suspect FdJ (wouldn't dare kick out three French teams in two years) and Luxembourg will get the nods.

BMC look certain to make top 17 anyway and so, like Cervelo, don't really need ProTout status: Vacasoleil to be left wondering who they have upset, not only to miss out as I fear they will but also to get so few wild card invitations to the biggest events. I doubt the signing of Ricco will assist in getting those invitations.