Protour licenses

[Cobblestoned]

Leipheimer was nowhere in PN. When did Kloeden go deep in a post-Tour race last time?

Levi was third in the Prolog of PN for example - ridiculous
Klöden crashed out of Eneco last year.

What do you want from me, now ?
So, they are/were there - but now they have to go really, really deep for the whole race and win everything. lol

Just change your focus and look at other riders/results to fillet.
I would find 1000 other things, if I was someone who had fun in filleting disliked riders and teams.

 

[Mellow Velo]

Just open your eyes.
Leipheimer rode P-N for example...Klöden rides at Eneco.
Suisse was just training ride uhmmmmmm, yes of course. Just get serious, man.
And I think Brajko should be sorry for winning the DL, shouldn´t he ?

Rest is just your speculation.

My eyes are always open in respect of this sport.
Brajkovic isn't in question, so why include him in any criticism?

As if on cue, Eurosport's commentator, who is a true fanboy, has just made an "observation" on air, about the lack of quality in the Shack's ENECO team. (Steegmans excepted)

Levi was third in the Prolog of PN for example - ridiculous

The only thing ridiculous is the fact that you rate 3rd in a prologue as a significant participation, when the question should be why is a top PT rider competing in a MTB race, instead of the PT?

 

[Ferminal]

Wow!

Tjallingi misses out on Boom by 0.10s

 

[Cobblestoned]

My eyes are always open in respect of this sport.
Brajkovic isn't in question, so why include him in any criticism?

As if on cue, Eurosport's commentator, who is a true fanboy, has just made an "observation" on air, about the lack of quality in the Shack's ENECO team. (Steegmans excepted)


The only thing ridiculous is the fact that you rate 3rd in a prologue as a significant participation, when the question should be why is a top PT rider competing in a MTB race, instead of the PT?

Lack of quality, Steegmans excepted. Uhumm. lol
Did you have such a "serious" look at the other teams ?

You guys are really boring (me).

 

[kurtinsc]

The whole Pro Tour licence system is open to abuse; from the UCI, to teams that have but one interest in life.
The UCI can hand this magical parchment to any outfit it pleases. If their faces fits, they are in. If they fill a slot in a global niche, they're in.
If the appropriate brown envelope appears in Pat's Aigle pigeon hole, they're in.
Once a member, you can do as you please, providing you turn up to races, other than the TDF, in sufficient strength to acquire the requisite points.

Sorry for having to use Radio Shack as a prime example of a team abusing their given stature, but they are the glaring example.

Take Liquigas. They have entered at least one "big name", at almost every race they ridden, this season, be it PT or just an everyday event.

Other than at Cali, Switzerland (a training ride) and the Tour, where have we seen Lance, Levi or Kloden?
The Tour of Poland, ENECO, SS and Vattenfall, plus the numerous undercard events have had the undercard squad.
Had they been handed a Vuelta invite, (almost guaranteed under next year's system) none of the above would have appeared.

In closing the shop with this new system, the UCI are reestablishing the importance of the PT licence, but further reducing the standard of the PT calander

While they didn't ride well, Kloden was at Pais-Vasco, Catalunya, Liege and La Fleche Wallone, Leipheimer was at Paris-Nice and Catalunya and Lance was at the TDU and RVV.

The only pro-tour/major races this year prior to July without at least one of those 3 riders (if you are assuming they are the "best" RS riders) that Radioshack took part in were: MSR, Paris-Roubaix, Amstel Gold (Horner was there), Tour of Romandie (Brajkovic was there) and the Dauphine Libere (Brajkovic and Horner were there).

To be honest... That's pretty good coverage. I suppose you could argue that one of Leipheimer/Kloden/Armstrong should have been at DL or Romandie... but given that a RS rider WON the Dauphine Libere and they got 5th and 6th at Romandie... I'm not sure how well that flies.

RS's problem seems more along the line of having their "name" riders simply do poorly or not care at races other then the ones you mentioned. They did ride those races... they were just invisible. The non-name guys got more of the results.

 

[Mellow Velo]

You guys are really boring (me).

Boring? I don't rate you that highly.

Take a leaf out of Kurtinsc's book.
He presents a counter argument with plenty of relevant info, rather than just be contemptuous of other posters.

I hadn't realised Klodi rode both Pais Vasco and Catalunya, for instance.
Yes, maybe they have covered the major PT events better than I had realised, due to the "low profile".

 

[luckyboy]

The idea that Katusha's licence was up for renewal is an error, I believe copied from Wikipedia: we now have the definitive list of applicants.

To renew:
Astana
Euskaltel
Milram (by another name)
FdJ
Footon/Geox
Liquigas
HTC
Caisse d'Epargne/Telefonica

To gain/regain entry:
Bbox
BMC
Cofidis
FlyV
Schlecklux
Vacansoleil

Do people think Milram are really going to stay in? They've been terrible this year. I only remember Gerdemann winning that Tirreno stage, and Ciolek leading Hushovd out at the Tour. The only reason I can see them staying in is because there aren't any other German teams.

I think these 5 will definitely get in: Astana, Liquigas, HTC, Movistar and the Schlecks

BMC/Geox/FDJ/Euskaltel/Vacansoleil/Milram to fight for the last 3 spaces.

 

[Cobblestoned]

Do people think Milram are really going to stay in? They've been terrible this year. I only remember Gerdemann winning that Tirreno stage, and Ciolek leading Hushovd out at the Tour. The only reason I can see them staying in is because there aren't any other German teams.

I think these 5 will definitely get in: Astana, Liquigas, HTC, Movistar and the Schlecks

BMC/Geox/FDJ/Euskaltel/Vacansoleil/Milram to fight for the last 3 spaces.

Team Milram (aka last german PT-Team) is history
Yes they were terrible. Watching them, hurted a lot most of the year.

Last example was Vattenfall. Working for DNF

 

[Ryaguas]

Do you know something we don't? Otherwise, I think that statement is rather premature given we don't know who - apart from the Schlecks - will be in the team. The rest is all conjecture.

And speaking of an Australian team, thiswas posted on SMH. Doesn't say anything new, but interesting to see a timeline process.

""""Also They are not going to have an strong team to race in a high level in every race that they are going to be""""" You are misreading my post... they are just going to have a big team for Ardennes y Le Tour... for the other races they are going to have a "C" Team (Not even B)... I'm sure...

when the question should be why is a top PT rider competing in a MTB race, instead of the PT?

PWND!!!!

 

[Libertine Seguros]

There are 28 teams interested to be professional, but you have to think that there are other six (the team that finally don't achieve the ProTour licence).

The most logical is to think that 21 are the team that has been professional teams in 2010.

And you can add:
UNITED HEALTHCARE
TYPE1
SPIDERTECH
PETROCHEMICAL TABRIZ
COLOMBIA ES PASIÓN
CAJA RURAL
BRETAGNE

I don't know if there are other teams. But these sevend showed his interest.

I think we'll be losing at least one - Scott-Marcondes César and Vorarlberg-Corratec have had financial troubles during the year and will probably have to step back down, the same as PSK Whirlpool-Author did last year. Then you have BMC, Bbox and Cofidis who are currently ProContinental but may not have a ProContinental application in yet because they're focused on trying to go ProTour.

I also know for a fact that Team NetApp (GER) and LA Aluminios-Paredes Rota dos Móveis (POR) are after ProContinental licences for next year.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

where did you read about scott having financial troubles?? they had last year but not this year as I recall

 

[Libertine Seguros]

It might be the timeframe in my memory letting me down, then. Vorarlberg has definitely been this year though.

 

[ingsve]

As if on cue, Eurosport's commentator, who is a true fanboy, has just made an "observation" on air, about the lack of quality in the Shack's ENECO team. (Steegmans excepted)

What commentator was that? He has no clue what hes talking about. IMO they have picked almost the best possible team for that type of race they can with their roster.

Is he expecting Leipheimer to show up just because there is a TT in the end? They have other riders better suited for Eneco who can also TT but that also has the right type of terrain for them on the other six stages.

Tour du Limousin would have been a much better race for Leipheimer and Brajkovic if they were riding this week.

 

[Sneekes]

Not sure who it was, but he kept pronouncing the Mur de Huy as the Mur de Hoy (as if they'd named it after Sir Chris)

 

[Michele]

It might be the timeframe in my memory letting me down, then. Vorarlberg has definitely been this year though.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/pagliarini-to-skip-brazil-titles-in-protest

 

[tgsgirl]

What will probably happen in the end:

Milram will go out.
Schleck's will go in.
Otherwise no changes.
Vacansoleil will explode with rage, Cervelo won't mind, BMC won't mind and Fly V should be happy enough to have a Pro Cont. license.

Agree with all of the above.

FYI a bit rich, means expecting too much, ie won't happen.

Hahaha

 

[Arnout]

Who would've thought two years ago that the teams are literally fighting for a new ProTour place...

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Hein Verbrugghen and Pat McQuaid.

Although they needed to change the rules in such a ridicolous way for that, so that teams actually MUST have a PT license

(the 18 points rule for PCT teams, the 17 teams in world tour ranking rule)

 

[Arnout]

Hein Verbrugghen and Pat McQuaid.

Although they needed to change the rules in such a ridicolous way for that, so that teams actually MUST have a PT license

(the 18 points rule for PCT teams, the 17 teams in world tour ranking rule)

I read somewhere tonight that the 18 point rule was scrapped. Maybe it was this topic, I don't remember.

The 17 World Tour Ranking rule is acceptable, it is defendable to guarantee the best riders (riders get the points, not the teams) a starting place in the biggest events.

Wait... is that 17 rule only for the Tour or also for other races?

I am so confused about those rules, the UCI should clear things up.

 

[jaylew]

Probably a bit early to say, though Liqui, HTC, and probably Astana and Movistar are very safe bets. Everything else will probably shake out later.

What's really interesting about this signing period is so many teams are going to picking riders based on who they think will get them in the PT and/or in the top 17 of the UCI rankings. You just know that directors and sponsors have their calculators out, adding and subtracting the various teams' points to secure themselves a place in the top 17.

The Schlecks for instance, don't necessarily have to be in the PT as their points alone virtually assure the team of getting in all the races they care about.

Teams like Vacansoleil and the French squads, barring the signing of high scoring riders, will be the ones sweating it out the most as they don't currently have the points for the top 17. What teams will try and sign themselves into the top 17 just in case they don't get the PT license? Of course, getting the riders to be in the top 17 might also get you that in the PT.

The teams that get shut out of both are going to be the ones really hurting.

 

[tgsgirl]

The 17 World Tour Ranking rule is acceptable, it is defendable to guarantee the best riders (riders get the points, not the teams) a starting place in the biggest events.

Wait... is that 17 rule only for the Tour or also for other races?

GTs, so Giro, Vuelta and Tour. And HIS races too. Basically, all the cool races UCI doesn't own.
And it would be defendable if there were any way to score enough points from outside the ProTour (and I include theoretical ProConti teams like Cervélo in that). Basically, if they took CQ's 17 rather than the UCI's 17.

 

[Timmy-loves-Rabo]

The 17 World Tour Ranking rule is acceptable, it is defendable to guarantee the best riders (riders get the points, not the teams) a starting place in the biggest events.

Wait... is that 17 rule only for the Tour or also for other races?

I am so confused about those rules, the UCI should clear things up.

I disagree, as it only befits the teams within the PT. Being outside the PT makes things quite difficult.

Hard to score points and prove yourself when you don't get a chance.

 

[Quinan]

Libertine remember me some details that I forgot when I wrote the teams interested to be professionals teams in 2011.

NEWS POSSIBLE PROFESSIONAL TEAMS
UNITED HEALTHCARE
TYPE1
SPIDERTECH
PETROCHEMICAL TABRIZ
COLOMBIA ES PASIÓN
CAJA RURAL
BRETAGNE
NETAPP. Ok. We have to add this German team.

I think we can not add LA-Rota dos Moveis. If you speak with the riders of the team, you can understand why they can not be professional in 2011.

And, yes, Vorarlberg was stopped by the UCI, but they can try again in 2011. It is a similar situation to PSK. They are continental in 2010. But they were to the UCI meeting in Geneva. That's why, they are interested to return to professional.

CONCLUSION: We are speaking about possible teams. I prefer to write "project" because they are not teams at least until they pay to the UCI the 16.000 euros of the payment fee (September 1st)

 

[auscyclefan94]

What will probably happen in the end:

Milram will go out.
Schleck's will go in.
Otherwise no changes.
Vacansoleil will explode with rage, Cervelo won't mind, BMC won't mind and Fly V should be happy enough to have a Pro Cont. license.

Vacansoleil need one as obviously the organisers see the value of BMC much more than Vacansoleil but BMC are applying for a license so I think they will want one as well.

 

[staubsauger]

well i really don't see why vacansoleil is not going to get a pro tour licence just look:

- milram is going to close at the end of the year
- euskatel don't need a pt licence for real. at the his races where they have a shot at they are allowed because of the new points reglement and in the spanish pt races they will get wildcards of course. out of this races they didn't show much in the past, and even the french teams were declassed in the last year.
- are you really sure geox will get a new pt license? it's still the team of gianetti, and they are all waiting now for 2 years to ban them out, so now there is the chance. would it be really enough to sign an old former tdf winner and a former giro winner who at least even was searching his form at the ardennes? don't think so otherwise in 2005 even lpr brakes and sapore di mare would have gotten a pt license/giro invite just because they have had casagrande and tonkov that year if the rumors with mentsjov are true that would chance everything, but otherwise as a pro conti squad geox will be at all italian classics and will get wildcard invite at il giro because of cunego/sastre/mentsjov and the young colombians.
- cervelo has no need to get one. they will be at all his races because of the point reglement and at most of the other races they will get invited with a wildcard
- same thing for bmc. they will be at the his races because of the points evans was winning this season. and in the other spring classics they will get wildcard invents, because of kroon, burghardt and hincapie. that will be enough. sorry acf but even vacansoleil's spring b-squad with traksel was better as kroon,burghardt and hincapie this spring. and for the small pt-tours vacansoleil have more riders to animate (ricco, hoogerland, carrara, devolder, pols, r. felliu, bozic), while bmc just have evans, morabito and oh well ballan. mauro rode 2 very poor gt's as a domestique for evans and bookwalker...oh well vacansoleil have: mouris, westra and mortensen.
- team schleck: well normally they will get a pt license, but otherwise they will be at all his races "in iedere geval". so they could also do it like cervelo and maybe after the radioshack disappointment the uci says no. but i don't think so.
- fdj won't get declassed because bbox and cofidis have been last year.
- vacansoleil needs a pt licence to be at alle the pt races and tours like basque or catalunya, because the wildcards will go to national squads and cervelo/bmc. they will definatly get a wildcard at il giro and for the ardennes and of course for the other spring classics like ronde, because of devolder, hoogerland, carrara, ricco. then they could ride the italian autumn classics with ricco, hoogerland, pols, carrara, ongarato, marcato and mortensen if they want to. so it doesn't matter that much that they aren't qualificated for the tour and la vuelta automaticly. they could hope to get tne 4th wildcard at the tour, and if not it's not as fatal as this years, because their main goals will be the spring classics and italy. if they bring ricco and bozic to la vuelta or have ridden a strong season already until then, they will get a vuelta invite instead of one of the boring french squads.

so if just one of these points has any effects vacansoleil MUST get a pt licence. if not i will be very ****ed of about the associated company pt/uci, where money and big names (sky, bmc) count higher than a young, talented, hungry team which always have shown big adoption and results and have a strong gc captain for il giro now, too.

alltough it wouldn't be a total fiasco for vacansoleil. they will just ride all the basic benelux races, the giro, and all italian monuments with maybe fantastic results then.....

so at il giro the wildcards might be
1. androni
2. vacansoleil
3. aqua
4. geox
5. colnago/camiooro or euskatel is really starting if sicard shuld ride his first gt.

for the tour it might be
1. cofidis
2. bbox
3. fdj
4. geox/saur/vacansoleil/skill/

in spain might be

1. xacobeo
2. andalucia
3. and 4. vacansoleil?/ camiooro because of pardilia?/ geox because of sastre and mentsjov?/ cofidis? but moncoutie will retire at the end of the year/ bbox? / fdj?/ saur so that coppel could ride at least 1 gt?

if the shack or bmc don't want to ride il giro or la vuelta there even will be space for a 6th or 7th wildcard at il giro or a 5th or 6th at la vuelta. maybe evans is even doing giro/vuelta next yeat to win one of both, but bmc will be in france anyhow i think.