Pulling a Wiggins

[TheSpud]

The notion that everybody avoids taxes in the same way as multinational corporations, Mitt Romney's mates, and Tory donors is a despicable lie. Fiddle your benefits to score an upgrade to your Sky subscription and you're banged-up, with a tasty perp-walk in the local paper. Bung enough to the Tories, hide ?millions offshore, and get a peerage.

Perhaps you mistook this for your local golf club forum?

This is OT so perhaps it should be moved.

Either way I never said everyone avoids taxes - the point I was making was that Miliband is a hypocrite. Oh and by the way there are plenty of people who have bunged all three major parties millions and got peerages - Lord Paul springs to mind ...

Dont know where you got the impression I play golf, or that all golf clubs are swimming with conservative voters. The ones I have been to have people from all backgrounds, views, etc. - so not sure if you were trying some kind of class based attack there or not.

 

[Netserk]

Thats a fair point Hitch - do you / or anyone else have links to articles that explain why its not possible to lose weight and maintain / gain power? It seems logical, just never managed to find any useful articles. Similarly if anyone has links to articles that say it is possible then i'd like to see those too (and this isn't about demanding evidence, proof, blah, etc. I just think it would be an interesting read).

It's easy to lose weight and gain power. If you're untrained. No way that after several years as a pro where you have done everything to be as powerful and light as possible that you then suddenly will be able to do both at once, not just a bit, but remarkedly so.

 

[thehog]

It's easy to lose weight and gain power. If you're untrained. No way that after several years as a pro where you have done everything to be as powerful and light as possible that you then suddenly will be able to do both at once, not just a bit, but remarkedly so.

This is not entirely true. It depends on the context. The expectation is that through weight loss and specific training, you will maintian power for climbing and thus go faster. You may even gain power through the training and conditioning element alone.

However there is a trade off. Generally that is on flat stages and in the ITTs you drop some power as your weight advantage is lost.

I don't disagree with the new paradigm Sky created; They lost significant amounts of weight, gained power for the climbs but most notably became remaekably strong in the ITTs and for Wiggins on the flat. It was most odd.

I do agree that when seasoned Pros make those types of gains then it comes down to drugs and not training harder. Although drugs do help you train harder and recover way faster.

Drugs are very helpful for such endeavours.

 

[sniper]

The magical weight loss coupled with gaining of power output that could only have come from certain performance drugs and occured at the very same time that these performance enhancing drugs hit the professional scene.

hmmm.

I remember an interview with Matschinger on the Dutch television from 2013 where he said he had intel from inside the peloton that AICAR was widespread. (He also said it's widespread among juniors, age 15-17, if I recall correctly.)
Recall that Leinders was a major customer of Matschinger (Leinders even went to Austria himself to get dope).

I seem to remember the UCI (or ASO?) stating the 2013 TdF samples would get retested for AICAR. Not sure what has come of that.
I think there still isn't a viable test, and if there is, I assume that's where Zorzoli comes into play.

 

[The Hitch]

It's easy to lose weight and gain power. If you're untrained. No way that after several years as a pro where you have done everything to be as powerful and light as possible that you then suddenly will be able to do both at once, not just a bit, but remarkedly so.

And a few years later your teammate from the same country just happens to be the 2nd person in world history to manage it.

 

[TheSpud]

And a few years later your teammate from the same country just happens to be the 2nd person in world history to manage it.

Technically not the same country - passport of convenience. Same team though, I'll give you that and close enough to being British. But does that prove doping (the weight loss and power increase, by someone on the same team?) or does it prove some new training method? I think people could argue it either way (in isolation to other things)? Thats partly why I asked earlier for the links - a lot of people say it cant be done, some people say it can, i'm yet to see a scientific argument either way. As i said, I'd be interested in reading the details and then drawing a conclusion.

EDIT
And again, like the OOC cortisone, this is now an old debate - i'm not trying to present it as new.

The question in my mind would be, if AICAR (or whatever Sky are suspected of taking) is so good why isn't everyone doing it - both in the team and in other teams?

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Technically not the same country - passport of convenience. Same team though, I'll give you that and close enough to being British. But does that prove doping (the weight loss and power increase, by someone on the same team?) or does it prove some new training method? I think people could argue it either way (in isolation to other things)? Thats partly why I asked earlier for the links - a lot of people say it cant be done, some people say it can, i'm yet to see a scientific argument either way. As i said, I'd be interested in reading the details and then drawing a conclusion.

Good.

Grief.

Here, you'll like this...

In 2003, at only 30 years old, [redacted] decided to step away from a successful, but tough professional cycling career. He was perhaps young to retire, but clearly had maximized his abilities at a somewhat earlier age than most through ground-breaking training techniques, and extreme focus. In his 10 years as a professional cyclist he set the record up Mount Ventoux, and was an integral part of the winning team time trial squad in stage 5 of the 2001 Tour de France. Nonetheless, at 30, he decided to dedicate more time to his growing family, and to the business aspect of the fastest growing sport in the US.

 

[D-Queued]

Good.

Grief.

Here, you'll like this...

... clearly had maximized his abilities at a somewhat earlier age than most through ground-breaking training techniques, and extreme focus. ...

I don't care who the subject of this kind of rationalization is, this kind of crap leaves a taste of throw-up in my mouth.

Dave.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

EDIT
And again, like the OOC cortisone, this is now an old debate - i'm not trying to present it as new.

The question in my mind would be, if AICAR (or whatever Sky are suspected of taking) is so good why isn't everyone doing it - both in the team and in other teams?

Can you posit a hypothesis as to why this may be the case?

If your 20% bonus for drugs wins you the Tour, vs wins you a top 10 in a stage, as an example. Not to say you were a better rider in a raw, natural state, not at all. Just a better responder to the drugs.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

I don't care who the subject of this kind of rationalization is, this kind of crap leaves a taste of throw-up in my mouth.

Dave.

You know it's the old blurb from a team's website yeah?

 

[D-Queued]

You know it's the old blurb from a team's website yeah?

Fire the marketing firm.

Dave.

 

[Digger]

Fire the marketing firm.

Dave.

Jv...........

 

[thehog]

Good.

Grief.

Here, you'll like this...

Exactly. What new training method? What detail in that attention to detail?

 

[thehog]

Can you posit a hypothesis as to why this may be the case?

If your 20% bonus for drugs wins you the Tour, vs wins you a top 10 in a stage, as an example. Not to say you were a better rider in a raw, natural state, not at all. Just a better responder to the drugs.

I believe Spud is presenting the "level playing field" theorem.

Lance will sue...

 

[Digger]

Brailsford went back to college to learn about nutrition and he learned some really key gems. 'Hydration' is important. As is what you out into your body. Carbs and protein are important after a ride. This is innovation and marginal gains to the hilt.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/promotio...Show-nutrition-is-fundamental-to-cycling.html


Nigel Mitchell cound and Brailsford all experts now.

Will Brailsford tell us about how bold he was to get that skinny for the cameras last July. Naughty naughty dave. Vanity makes people do very odd things. I hope there was enough to go around

 

[bobbins]

Brailsford went back to college to learn about nutrition and he learned some really key gems. 'Hydration' is important. As is what you out into your body. Carbs and protein are important after a ride. This is innovation and marginal gains to the hilt.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/promotio...Show-nutrition-is-fundamental-to-cycling.html


Nigel Mitchell cound and Brailsford all experts now.

Will Brailsford tell us about how bold he was to get that skinny for the cameras last July. Naughty naughty dave. Vanity makes people do very odd things. I hope there was enough to go around

Interesting article. However;

Brailsford isn't a coach. Never was, never will be. He's a super fan. Knows nothing about tactics, coaching or training that he isn't just repeating parrot fashion from people who actually do know what they are talking about.

Secondly, he didn't go back to university. He has an MBA, done a long time ago. He has certainly not completed any university course on nutrition.

The guy is deluded. Thinks the public will believe any old nonsense he comes up with.

 

[sniper]

I'll post this again:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2MRvw1vSivM#t=133
a.o., Boyer is just a few inches short of explicitly mentioning Wiggins as an AICAR user.
talks about AICAR and an ex-Cofidis who is now winning stage races losing around 6-7 kilograms, which is exactly the weight Wiggins lost in 2009.

 

[Digger]

I'll post this again:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2MRvw1vSivM#t=133
a.o., Boyer is just a few inches short of explicitly mentioning Wiggins as an AICAR user.
talks about AICAR and an ex-Cofidis who is now winning stage races losing around 6-7 kilograms, which is exactly the weight Wiggins lost in 2009.

i have seen and posted that clips a few times and it's very very significant as you're right - anyone with an ounce of common sense knows exactly who he's talking about - nobody else fits the criteria - left cofidis, lost all the weight and started winning stage races.....for the sky lunatics, you give an example of who else he's alluding yo.

 

[SundayRider]

i have seen and posted that clips a few times and it's very very significant as you're right - anyone with an ounce of common sense knows exactly who he's talking about - nobody else fits the criteria - left cofidis, lost all the weight and started winning stage races.....for the sky lunatics, you give an example of who else he's alluding yo.

Most likely to ever get rumbled - Wiggins or Froome?

 

[SundayRider]

It's easy to lose weight and gain power. If you're untrained. No way that after several years as a pro where you have done everything to be as powerful and light as possible that you then suddenly will be able to do both at once, not just a bit, but remarkedly so.

This. Once you have been a pro for a long time (and Wiggins was more or less a pro from a very young age) and training all of them hours each week you very quickly reach a natural weight which won't change that much naturally.

 

[blackcat]

Brailsford went back to college to learn about nutrition and he learned some really key gems. 'Hydration' is important. As is what you out into your body. Carbs and protein are important after a ride. This is innovation and marginal gains to the hilt.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/promotio...Show-nutrition-is-fundamental-to-cycling.html


Nigel Mitchell cound and Brailsford all experts now.

Will Brailsford tell us about how bold he was to get that skinny for the cameras last July. Naughty naughty dave. Vanity makes people do very odd things. I hope there was enough to go around

Nutella and Tescos

 

[blackcat]

Interesting article. However;

Brailsford isn't a coach. Never was, never will be. He's a super fan. Knows nothing about tactics, coaching or training that he isn't just repeating parrot fashion from people who actually do know what they are talking about.

Secondly, he didn't go back to university. He has an MBA, done a long time ago. He has certainly not completed any university course on nutrition.

The guy is deluded. Thinks the public will believe any old nonsense he comes up with.

but no one can answer if he is married to Fran Miller.

come on folks. Fran Miller.


think about this for a sec. The mitachondria of Millers alliterationz, plus the marginal gains of golem <strikethru> Brailsford.

The Empire Crew have another Tour winner in 29 years. And JV has cracked the mitachondria code. mitachondria, inuit buring carbs not fats, there is some genius in boulder. It is like Sisyphus set up for time immemorial in Denver.

so folks, Fran Millar and Brailsford?

dont know if i spelled mitochondria correct. JV spelling bee?

 

[blackcat]

This. Once you have been a pro for a long time (and Wiggins was more or less a pro from a very young age) and training all of them hours each week you very quickly reach a natural weight which won't change that much naturally.

there is no way you go from 76kg (conservative estimate) at 6'3", to 72 (conservative estimate on downside, he has been quoted at 80 pre-GC, to 70 GC.

I would say, potentially possible at the lower track weight to the higher GC weight. I could see him coming from 76 at 6'3" to 72 for GC. But they all dope, and he was doping before and after.

 

[SundayRider]

there is no way you go from 76kg (conservative estimate) at 6'3", to 72 (conservative estimate on downside, he has been quoted at 80 pre-GC, to 70 GC.

I would say, potentially possible at the lower track weight to the higher GC weight. I could see him coming from 76 at 6'3" to 72 for GC. But they all dope, and he was doping before and after.

you think he was doping prior to his road 'transformation'?

 

[bobbins]

but no one can answer if he is married to Fran Miller.

come on folks. Fran Miller.


think about this for a sec. The mitachondria of Millers alliterationz, plus the marginal gains of golem <strikethru> Brailsford.

The Empire Crew have another Tour winner in 29 years. And JV has cracked the mitachondria code. mitachondria, inuit buring carbs not fats, there is some genius in boulder. It is like Sisyphus set up for time immemorial in Denver.

so folks, Fran Millar and Brailsford?

dont know if i spelled mitochondria correct. JV spelling bee?

He's still with his girlfriend as far as I know. Not sure if the Fran Millar thing is still going. Maybe losing her teeth after riding a bike without the front qr done up was a deal breaker for him. Mind you, she got an undisclosed payout despite it being her fault.