Pulling a Wiggins

[peloton]

Not against the WADA code means ok in some peoples eyes. In my view this is SKYs position. Whether you agree or not, they can claim to be clean within the letter of the law. Maybe not the spirit, but certainly the letter, which of course does open up a whole number of discussions - many of which are very much underway (or even concluded).

Keep burying your head in the sand, it did work for years for LA fans

Letter of the law? LOL

 

[the sceptic]

Keep burying your head in the sand, it did work for years for LA fans

Letter of the law? LOL

clean within the letter of the law is the new never tested positive.

Froome was clean when doping on horse steroids because the UCI said so.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Different types of power.
Sustained power/weight for climbing up mountains
Versus explosive shorter effort.


but I have a feeling you knew this.

Hmmm no don't think so. Otherwise he could have climbed up hills explosively.

Power :: weight matters in bike race. Especially going up and down bergs in a 6+ hour race. Massive difference.

Weight plays little to no part in your muscle fibre type.

 

[peloton]

clean within the letter of the law is the new never tested positive.

Froome was clean when doping on horse steroids because the UCI said so.

haha, indeed.

The hiring of Dr. Leinders transformed two riders to TdF winners. Funny, that.

Froomies transformation, shows that with proper program, even a donkey can become a racehorse.

While still looking awkward on a bike too.

 

[D-Queued]

Hmmm no don't think so. Otherwise he could have climbed up hills explosively.

Power :: weight matters in bike race. Especially going up and down bergs in a 6+ hour race. Massive difference.

Weight plays little to no part in your muscle fibre type.

See! You don't get it.

This is exactly the problem with you folks. And, exactly why the rest of the peloton will never catch up to Sky.

This is the territory of marginal gains.

If you ride for Sky, this kind of stuff is obvious. As a Sky rider you can selectively choose what kind of muscle fibre you add or subtract as you gain or loose weight.

MARGINAL GAINS. Get it?

Dave.

 

[thehog]

haha, indeed.

The hiring of Dr. Leinders transformed two riders to TdF winners. Funny, that.

Froomies transformation, shows that with proper program, even a donkey can become a racehorse.

While still looking awkward on a bike too.

Do you think Brailsford sits in his office and shakes his head at how ridiculous Froome is? I think he might.

 

[TheSpud]

Is EPO and AICAR within the WADA code as well Martin?

They are mentioned as prohibited methods / substances - why not try reading it, then you can play the ball not the man.

 

[TheSpud]

Keep burying your head in the sand, it did work for years for LA fans

Letter of the law? LOL

I didn't say i necessarily agreed with it. I certainly think thats where they started with their position.

 

[More Strides than Rides]

Maybe the positive out of all of this is that he is less dirty than the last few years, heading for the weight room instead of the AICAR bottle.

 

[the sceptic]

They are mentioned as prohibited methods / substances - why not try reading it, then you can play the ball not the man septic.

ball, not man Martin.

 

[TailWindHome]

There's probably a thread on it somewhere, but how else are you going to define cheating without reference to the rules?

 

[Wallace and Gromit]

There's probably a thread on it somewhere, but how else are you going to define cheating without reference to the rules?

It's like tax avoidance as portrayed by the Labour Party in the UK. There is a "right" and "moral" amount of tax for each person to pay, irrespective of what the law says. Similarly, there is a "right" and "moral" way for a cyclist to conduct themselves.

The advantage of this kind of subjective, ill-defined approach is that you can bend it to suit the situation. So in terms of tax, Labour party donors obviously engage in prudent arrangement of their financial affairs whereas Tory party donors engage in aggressive tax avoidance using fancy accountants and lawyers. Similarly, when using drugs/procedures that aren't actually banned, our favourite rider is just being professional, whereas riders we don't like are cheating sc*m.

 

[Catwhoorg]

There's probably a thread on it somewhere, but how else are you going to define cheating without reference to the rules?

The only rules that matter are set down by WADA and interpreted by the UCI and the NADOs.


Personally, I think tramadol should be on the prohibited list. My avenues to make that happen are limited, but I speak up where I can about that.

I also think the way the peptide section of the prohibited list is written is very open to abuse. That one I haven't spoken up (Other than here) about simply as I have no better way of writing it as of right now.

 

[TheSpud]

It's like tax avoidance as portrayed by the Labour Party in the UK. There is a "right" and "moral" amount of tax for each person to pay, irrespective of what the law says. Similarly, there is a "right" and "moral" way for a cyclist to conduct themselves.

The advantage of this kind of subjective, ill-defined approach is that you can bend it to suit the situation. So in terms of tax, Labour party donors obviously engage in prudent arrangement of their financial affairs whereas Tory party donors engage in aggressive tax avoidance using fancy accountants and lawyers. Similarly, when using drugs/procedures that aren't actually banned, our favourite rider is just being professional, whereas riders we don't like are cheating sc*m.

OT: Milliband needs to learn to shut up, after all the billionaire John Mills gave shares in his company direct to the Labour party rather than sell them and give the cash as it was "more tax efficient". Hypocrites through and through.

 

[TheSpud]

The only rules that matter are set down by WADA and interpreted by the UCI and the NADOs.


Personally, I think tramadol should be on the prohibited list. My avenues to make that happen are limited, but I speak up where I can about that.

I also think the way the peptide section of the prohibited list is written is very open to abuse. That one I haven't spoken up (Other than here) about simply as I have no better way of writing it as of right now.

And this is the nub of many arguments. Would you consider Tramadol doping? Would you consider it breaking the rules (as defined above)?

 

[TheSpud]

*Deleted by mod*

I was playing the ball.

You, as usual, are just shouting from the sidelines at the man. Read the rules before joining in the game - then you'll recognise the ball and be able to play it.

 

[thehog]

I was playing the ball.

You, as usual, are just shouting from the sidelines at the man. Read the rules before joining in the game - then you'll recognise the ball and be able to play it.

Yeah! and you smell too! And you ride a girls bike!

 

[the sceptic]

I was playing the ball.

You, as usual, are just shouting from the sidelines at the man. Read the rules before joining in the game - then you'll recognise the ball and be able to play it.

Thanks Martin.

 

[Catwhoorg]

And this is the nub of many arguments. Would you consider Tramadol doping? Would you consider it breaking the rules (as defined above)?

It is not doping per WADA.

But nor is it something I would expect any current of future team with aspirations of being known as a 'clean team' to use. It is sufficiently strong that if you need it to ride through pain (say of a fractured pelvis), you probably ought to be medically withdrawn.

Was is this time last year that the main discussion about this was going on ? At that time I hadn't ever had it.

I was prescribed it for a couple of days pain relief post for a minor outpatient surgery at the end of last year.
Took exactly one tablet, as it really messed with my head.

It has no place, zero, being used in the peloton.

 

[pastronef]

Wigs and Tinks

http://instagram.com/p/zA3pR0iBej/

 

[TheSpud]

Yeah! and you smell too! And you ride a girls bike!

The usual adult (not) response form you. if you cant contribute to the debate why bother posting?

 

[TheSpud]

Thanks Martin.

Yep - usual BS from you Septic. Obviously you have nothing to contribute to the debate ...

 

[TheSpud]

It is not doping per WADA.

But nor is it something I would expect any current of future team with aspirations of being known as a 'clean team' to use. It is sufficiently strong that if you need it to ride through pain (say of a fractured pelvis), you probably ought to be medically withdrawn.

Was is this time last year that the main discussion about this was going on ? At that time I hadn't ever had it.

I was prescribed it for a couple of days pain relief post for a minor outpatient surgery at the end of last year.
Took exactly one tablet, as it really messed with my head.

It has no place, zero, being used in the peloton.

I see this as the nub of a lot of debates. I think, if I am correct, that Sky were quite open about 'pushing the rules to the limit'. So, that could be Tramadol. That could also quite easily be Cortisone OOC - again not against the rules. Does that make them dirty / dopers? Depends on your viewpoint.

For me - the rules are the starting point, and if they (or anyone) are, lets say, just doing Cortisone OOC then yes they are within the rules. Does it make it right? That is a whole can of worms that is all about cycling and not just Sky.

 

[Ventoux Boar]

I see this as the nub of a lot of debates. I think, if I am correct, that Sky were quite open about 'pushing the rules to the limit'. So, that could be Tramadol. That could also quite easily be Cortisone OOC - again not against the rules. Does that make them dirty / dopers? Depends on your viewpoint.

For me - the rules are the starting point, and if they (or anyone) are, lets say, just doing Cortisone OOC then yes they are within the rules. Does it make it right? That is a whole can of worms that is all about cycling and not just Sky.

From memory, Brailsford coined the Mrs Dombrowski test: you need to be able to look that parent in the eye and let them know you'll look after their cargo despite what they hear about the nasty world of pro-cycling. I think that's a decent ethical test.

(CBA finding a link, btw) But if I could be arsed I'd wonder if those comments reflected Dave's belief that now he had Leinders on staff, his riders were protected. What a conundrum this man is.

 

[thehog]

The usual adult (not) response form you. if you cant contribute to the debate why bother posting?

You mean like that awesome very mature Nutella thread yo tried to start that got binned by the mods?

Why bother contributing indeed!