Question about anti-armstrong fanboys

[cavfan11]

I have only been watching pro cycling for about a year or so, and only viewing these forums for about half that. I've noticed that it seems nearly every person here is willing to show their dislike of Lance Armstrong. I understand why people do (I am however surprised at the degree of which people will post things to prove why they do), but my question is: Has it always been this way?

Back in the 1999-2005 era, was Armstrong as hated of a figure as he is now? I am not a fanboy, but I am an American so Lance is in the media regardless of what the true cycling fans want.

 

[Aeeeek]

He made it boring and because he was so focussed he didn't seem a nice guy.
I was appreciating this year until the last week of the TdF when he reverted.

(proud owner of a 2009 framed 2008 Madone 6.9, just nothing to do with Lance)

 

[Anonymous]

The LA haters, generally, hate:

the fact that he is arrogant,
the fact that he has huge marketability,
the fact he has the ability to snag hollywood actresses,
the fact the media love him,
the fact that he is the greatest stage racer since indurain,
the fact that he's never served a doping suspension,
the fact that other people like him,
the fact that he was unbeatable for seven years straight,
the fact that he came out of retirement,
the fact that he will top 10 in the ironman,
the fact that he challenged the european approach to training for the TDF,
the fact that he was a superstar athlete from childhood,
the fact that every cyclist at one stage loved him,
the fact that he embraced twitter,
the fact that he inspires sick people to achieve,
and the fact that he got on the podium despite the fact that they all predicted he would not even be close!!

All of those FACTs, are FACTs that the the LA haters are scared of, and feel the need to hate the guy. I like him, there are a few here like me, and we try to defend him, but it falls on disgruntled ears..

In 5 years time, when Contador has won 7 tours, they will turn on him too.

Personally, I like all riders, especially the one's that show other people how to really ride a bike (Contador, Armstrong, Cancellara) and don't care what the plebs on cycling forums write about them

 

[cromagnon]

Is it dislike, hate or contempt?

Hating someone you've never met first requires brainwashing. Then again loving someone you don't know also requires brainwashing. Dislike or contempt/avoidance that is founded on reasonable evidence is pretty healthy and balanced.

You missed "he generates annoying ignorant fanboys" off your amusing list (see "love" comment above), you also missed how people find the Ashenden tests a problem too (see "reasonable evidence" comment above).

 

[Anonymous]

You missed "he generates annoying ignorant fanboys" off your amusing list (see "love" comment above), you also missed how people find the Ashenden tests a problem too (see "reasonable evidence" comment above).

Nobody can 'generate' human beings - that would be heavily illegal in all countries. Human beings make up their own mind, based on FACTs, and, the FACT is that the hater's ignore just as many FACTs as the fans do. It's human nature.

So my point is that these cycling forums will consist of "annoying ignorant haters" and "annoying ignorant fanboys" both of which have their reasons for liking or disliking certain cyclists. I've stated my reasons for liking cyclists, and the one in question. My reasons are all based on FACTs and 'reasonable evidence'... no brainwashing there, just old fashioned decision making

Ps - thanks for the compliment about my 'amusing' list

 

[pmcg76]

As someone who doesnt like Lance but was once a fan, I will give a rundown on the sequence of events that turned the tide. I have followed Lances career since 1990 not 1999.

Firstly context, 1999 was the first year after Festina affair and there was cautious optimism that the sport might clean up.

Lance had never been a Tour contender post cancer, never condiedered as one and never considered himself as a contender. His best result was 4th in a very watered down Vuelta in 98, weakest of the GTs.

99-Very happy when Lance took the MJ but didnt expect him to win it, maybe top 10, genuinely surprised when he dominated in mountains but happy when he won the Tour. Simply a great story. The incident with Bassons didnt sound good but I simply ignored it. The cortisone injection, storm in a teacup.

00-02- Enjoyed Lance winning, moved to US in 01, bought a Trek, USPostal jersey, windbreaker. Saw him race at San Francisco GP in 02. The Ferrari link is revealed, not impressed at all because Ferrari has a very poor reputation.

03-04- As the rumours start to circulate and Lances attitude towards press becomes more and more arrogant, I start to become more sceptical. As more and more guys get busted, it becomes slightly more unlikely that he is clean. His dominance also makes the Tour boring which I dont enjoy.

04-Simeoni Affair-turning point, simply the most despicable incident I have witnessed in following 20 years of cycling. I challenge any Lance defender to find me a similar incident in cycling. It finally convinces me that Lance is very much pro-ometra, anti-clean cycling. All that optimism from 99 is gone.
Time to go back and review all those incidents that I had previously ignored. The evidence is not good. I definitely dont like Lance now.

05-My cycling magazine that I have been purchasing for over 10 years has a 20 page feature on Lance in almost every issue which drives me insane. Cycling is no longer about cycling. Its all about Lance. Maxium overkill. Cannot wait until he retires and we get back to talking about cycling. The EPO accusations, sit on the fence initially but the more I read regarding the subject and all his rivals appearing in Puerto or testing positive, the more obvious it is he doped. Contrast that with 99 when he was the great white hope.

Basically I opened my eyes and realised that Lance was a major fraud, as he was the biggest name in cycling, he stands out as the biggest fraud with all his conspiracy theories, PR spin and BS.

I dont even need to go into Frankie A, the court cases etc. I am sure you get the picture by now. His return this year was a chance to prove things had changed, no change, he acted like a arrogant baby and tried to use the cancer angle to deflect any criticsim. If his message was cancer awareness, why is he still not riding Lombardy. He stopped after the Tour. Is cancer less important between the Tour and the new season. If you can filter out the spin, BS it doesnt require a genius to figure out what LA is all about. Ego and money. Not a good combination.

 

[pmcg76]

The LA haters, generally, hate:

the fact that he is arrogant, Yes
the fact that he has huge marketability, at the expense of cycling in general
the fact he has the ability to snag hollywood actresses, Couldnt carethe fact the media love him, because he is a celeb, Jade Goody syndrome
the fact that he is the greatest stage racer since indurain, Or he made the Tour boring the fact that he's never served a doping suspension, Yes
the fact that other people like him, Or people are bling to spin and PR
the fact that he was unbeatable for seven years straight, No
the fact that he came out of retirement, Yes
the fact that he will top 10 in the ironman, Who cares
the fact that he challenged the european approach to training for the TDF, Rubbish
the fact that he was a superstar athlete from childhood, Ah no
the fact that every cyclist at one stage loved him, Hahaha, he was disliked before he even got cancer
the fact that he embraced twitter, Or the fact he spread BS with
the fact that he inspires sick people to achieve, Maybe
and
the fact that he got on the podium despite the fact that they all predicted he would not even be close!! I thought he could podium but he wouldnt have if it werent for the TTT
All of those FACTs, are FACTs that the the LA haters are scared of, and feel the need to hate the guy. I like him, there are a few here like me, and we try to defend him, but it falls on disgruntled ears..

In 5 years time, when Contador has won 7 tours, they will turn on him too.
Not unless he starts to behave like Armstrong although if he makes the Tour as boring, he wont be my favourite

Personally, I like all riders, especially the one's that show other people how to really ride a bike (Contador, Armstrong, Cancellara) and don't care what the plebs on cycling forums write about them Yourself included of course

You have missed quite a few obvious ones which I have mentioned in my own post. The myopia of the Lance fans is definitely one.

 

[Bag_O_Wallet]

I think some got wise to the fairy tale.

Me, well, I've been a skeptic since '96 when all of a sudden he could time trial - his 2nd place in the GP Eddy Merckx was the tipping point. Prior to that, he was middle-of-the-road at best. And don't get me started on his ability to climb big mountains.

The coverage of the GP Eddy Merckx in my old Winning had a pic of Armstrong. It was Superman in a Motorola skinsuit. I compared that pic to pics of him in '95 and '94. The difference was shocking, and it was very hard to believe anyone could gain that kind of muscle mass without some extra help.

 

[Mongol_Waaijer]

Actually I loathe him because he has:

- cynically and deliberately invested his own public integrity in the struggles of those fighting a deadly disease, and using their misguided loyalty to protect himself from accusations that he knows are truth and fact (and laughing all the way to the bank off the back of this)

- using his corporate clout to silence and eradicate those who disagree with him, often in an offensive and entirely juvenile manner.

- motivating himself with aggression and hatred for his competitors and critics, which he makes little effort to disguise, and seems to think are admirable human qualities

- Threatening to sue those who reveal his shady past, and never doing so. (put your money where your mouth is)

- promising "transparency" and then dropping supervision programs, delaying tests, editing and then removing publically posted blood values.

- being a liar, a cheat, a bully, a sociopath, narcissistic egomaniac and a total fraud in virtually all areas of his life.

- The fact that millions of people worldwide fail to see through this despicable man is a constant reminder to me of corporate cash ins and carefully marketed imaging overriding morality and truth at all times and the general stupidity and ignorance of most of the population, who merely believe the filth that is peddled to them by the corporations that strive constantly to turn us all into consumers first, citizens second. Keep believing, keep buying.

 

[Race Radio]

The LA haters, generally, hate:

the fact that he is arrogant,
the fact that he has huge marketability,
the fact he has the ability to snag hollywood actresses,
the fact the media love him,
the fact that he is the greatest stage racer since indurain,
the fact that he's never served a doping suspension,
the fact that other people like him,
the fact that he was unbeatable for seven years straight,
the fact that he came out of retirement,
the fact that he will top 10 in the ironman,
the fact that he challenged the european approach to training for the TDF,
the fact that he was a superstar athlete from childhood,
the fact that every cyclist at one stage loved him,
the fact that he embraced twitter,
the fact that he inspires sick people to achieve,
and the fact that he got on the podium despite the fact that they all predicted he would not even be close!!

All of those FACTs, are FACTs that the the LA haters are scared of, and feel the need to hate the guy. I like him, there are a few here like me, and we try to defend him, but it falls on disgruntled ears..

In 5 years time, when Contador has won 7 tours, they will turn on him too.

Personally, I like all riders, especially the one's that show other people how to really ride a bike (Contador, Armstrong, Cancellara) and don't care what the plebs on cycling forums write about them

I do not hate Lance, But I do dislike the clueless groupies who belive the myth and come here daily to embarrass themselves.

I would much rather talk about bike racing then to have to correct the BS the Armstrong myth machine spreads.

 

[fatandfast]

Mr goat, anybody that thinks Lance will get top 10 in the Ironman has never done an elite level open water swim. When LA does(if ever) start to concentrate on ID triathalon he may find that 112 mile time trials are difficult for a 40 year old. I remember watching Lance and Kenny Souza both with mullets race at San Dimas, what a treat.

 

[David Suro]

Lance has created a marketable brand for himself that has been hugely successful.

Those that follow the sport closely know that the reality of the person he is does not exactly match the brand he has marketed.

Personally, I say "so what" to that. He is hugely successful and has done much to help the sport of cycling in the US. What cultural icon can honestly say they are as great as their image? He has been portrayed in the American media as a superman. Who can live up to that?

Many think it is likely that he doped like all of his major rivals. If he did, he was clever enough to get away with it and never have a positive test. The largest complaint that can be made is that he demanded time to shower prior to haveing his hair/urine/blood taken by a controller acting outside of the normal protocol.

I have never met the guy so I can't say I like him or not, but I do have tremendous respect for his accomplishments and the recognition he has brought to cycling.

The haters will always find someone to hate. He is an easy target.

 

[Angliru]

The LA haters, generally, hate:

the fact that he is arrogant,
the fact that he has huge marketability,
the fact he has the ability to snag hollywood actresses,
the fact the media love him,
the fact that he is the greatest stage racer since indurain,
the fact that he's never served a doping suspension,
the fact that other people like him,
the fact that he was unbeatable for seven years straight,
the fact that he came out of retirement,
the fact that he will top 10 in the ironman,
the fact that he challenged the european approach to training for the TDF,
the fact that he was a superstar athlete from childhood,
the fact that every cyclist at one stage loved him,
the fact that he embraced twitter,
the fact that he inspires sick people to achieve,
and the fact that he got on the podium despite the fact that they all predicted he would not even be close!!

All of those FACTs, are FACTs that the the LA haters are scared of, and feel the need to hate the guy. I like him, there are a few here like me, and we try to defend him, but it falls on disgruntled ears..

In 5 years time, when Contador has won 7 tours, they will turn on him too.

Personally, I like all riders, especially the one's that show other people how to really ride a bike (Contador, Armstrong, Cancellara) and don't care what the plebs on cycling forums write about them

I hope you realize that your opinions of why some cycling fans supposedly "hate" Armstrong are just as narrowminded as the people that you attempt to vilify.

 

[Digger]

One of my main bones of contention is the cancer issue. His ad this year was disgusting. He is profiting from 'Cancer Awareness' and pulls out the cancer card anytime he is criticsed. His fans are infuriating also. Their ignorance is beyond belief.
Two examples. One fan said he wins, not because of doping, but because of the best equipment, he trains harder, and cancer changing his outlook. How can people possibly be so naive?
Second example: A David Walsh article and underneath, in the comments section, a person said 'Mr. Walsh, If you had bothered to read his book 'It's Not About the Bike', you'd know he doesn't need drugs.'

Other problems I'd have:
Simeoni and Bassons
Lemond
Betsy Andreu
Treatment of AC this year
Mike Anderson
Treatment of Paul Kimmage and Walsh
The lies and hypocrisy


The guy is a f***ing sociopath and ruthless beyond comprehension.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

I think PCM pretty much said it all for me.

 

[shawnrohrbach]

I have only been watching pro cycling for about a year or so, and only viewing these forums for about half that. I've noticed that it seems nearly every person here is willing to show their dislike of Lance Armstrong. I understand why people do (I am however surprised at the degree of which people will post things to prove why they do), but my question is: Has it always been this way?

Back in the 1999-2005 era, was Armstrong as hated of a figure as he is now? I am not a fanboy, but I am an American so Lance is in the media regardless of what the true cycling fans want.

For many here, it goes back before the glory years of the TDF wins, before the cancer even, when he was a U23 and then newbie pro. We're talking about 20 years. While I am not among the lance lovers or haters, I am skeptical. It's something like George W Bush calling himself an author now that he is writing a book. Two other people are writing it, yet his name will appear as the Author. The same goes for Bill Clinton, though I suspect Big Bill could actually pen a few good sentences. The point is, everyone loves a hero, no one loves a fraud, and if the suspicion of fraudulent behavior continues to hang over a persons head, people who want everything to be pure will hate him. And then there are just some cranky old guys who hate everyone and use this forum to show that. And there are some guys wearing rose colored sunglasses and think everything is peachy. Me? Eh, sport is corrupt but sometimes enjoyable to watch anyway.

 

[Murray]

...ruthless beyond comprehension.

Good thing you're not being over-dramatic. I mean really, the guy is a cyclist, not a mass murderer.

 

[Publicus]

As someone who doesnt like Lance but was once a fan, I will give a rundown on the sequence of events that turned the tide. I have followed Lances career since 1990 not 1999.

Firstly context, 1999 was the first year after Festina affair and there was cautious optimism that the sport might clean up.

Lance had never been a Tour contender post cancer, never condiedered as one and never considered himself as a contender. His best result was 4th in a very watered down Vuelta in 98, weakest of the GTs.

99-Very happy when Lance took the MJ but didnt expect him to win it, maybe top 10, genuinely surprised when he dominated in mountains but happy when he won the Tour. Simply a great story. The incident with Bassons didnt sound good but I simply ignored it. The cortisone injection, storm in a teacup.

00-02- Enjoyed Lance winning, moved to US in 01, bought a Trek, USPostal jersey, windbreaker. Saw him race at San Francisco GP in 02. The Ferrari link is revealed, not impressed at all because Ferrari has a very poor reputation.

03-04- As the rumours start to circulate and Lances attitude towards press becomes more and more arrogant, I start to become more sceptical. As more and more guys get busted, it becomes slightly more unlikely that he is clean. His dominance also makes the Tour boring which I dont enjoy.

04-Simeoni Affair-turning point, simply the most despicable incident I have witnessed in following 20 years of cycling. I challenge any Lance defender to find me a similar incident in cycling. It finally convinces me that Lance is very much pro-ometra, anti-clean cycling. All that optimism from 99 is gone.
Time to go back and review all those incidents that I had previously ignored. The evidence is not good. I definitely dont like Lance now.

05-My cycling magazine that I have been purchasing for over 10 years has a 20 page feature on Lance in almost every issue which drives me insane. Cycling is no longer about cycling. Its all about Lance. Maxium overkill. Cannot wait until he retires and we get back to talking about cycling. The EPO accusations, sit on the fence initially but the more I read regarding the subject and all his rivals appearing in Puerto or testing positive, the more obvious it is he doped. Contrast that with 99 when he was the great white hope.

Basically I opened my eyes and realised that Lance was a major fraud, as he was the biggest name in cycling, he stands out as the biggest fraud with all his conspiracy theories, PR spin and BS.

I dont even need to go into Frankie A, the court cases etc. I am sure you get the picture by now. His return this year was a chance to prove things had changed, no change, he acted like a arrogant baby and tried to use the cancer angle to deflect any criticsim. If his message was cancer awareness, why is he still not riding Lombardy. He stopped after the Tour. Is cancer less important between the Tour and the new season. If you can filter out the spin, BS it doesnt require a genius to figure out what LA is all about. Ego and money. Not a good combination.

+1 Nice summation of my own thoughts and feelings on LA.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

I have only been watching pro cycling for about a year or so, and only viewing these forums for about half that. I've noticed that it seems nearly every person here is willing to show their dislike of Lance Armstrong. I understand why people do (I am however surprised at the degree of which people will post things to prove why they do), but my question is: Has it always been this way?

Back in the 1999-2005 era, was Armstrong as hated of a figure as he is now? I am not a fanboy, but I am an American so Lance is in the media regardless of what the true cycling fans want.

I noticed how you said you are not a 'fanboy' -many on this forum believe that there are only 2 sides to posters, either 'fanboy' or 'hater'. While there are posters who fit in both groups the vast majority of the 7000+ registered on this site are somewhere in the middle.

Some appreciate his talent but not the methods or manner used to gain his victories. Others overlook his transgressions because of Livestrong or indeed his nationality.

To answer your question, no. He was pretty popular throughout the early 90s. His popularity probably peaked in 2003, but to many cycling fans the subsequent Tours became rather boring. As he rode conservatively to defend his lead - which is harsh. In the US his popularity continued to rise.

However the big turn off for many were the methods employed in his victories - which have been well documented here by others.

For the average American sports fan (not Cycling fan) I would assume he is still as popular as ever, as I read only one report that was critical of his return.

 

[Sprocket01]

Well you often get this in sports. I used to follow quite a lot of Formula 1 (and still do) and there was the same attitude towards Michael Schumacher. People who saw themselves as part of the 'in crowd' were very cynical about him and saw him as too commercially popular and hated all the hype. On top of that the likes of Armstrong and Schumacher are strong characters that are very good at getting people around them to work for their cause, and have made many enemies along the way. Put these things together and it creates quite a strong hatred against them.

 

[eurotrash]

In 5 years time, when Contador has won 7 tours, they will turn on him too.

Really, why? Are there a bunch of Indurain haters out there I am not aware of?

 

[eigenvalu2]

Care less about Lance

but Mountain Goat (MG) has a poor grasp of the meaning of the word "FACT"
allow me to assist:
fact–noun
1. something that actually exists; reality; truth.
2. something known to exist or to have happened.
3. a truth known by actual experience or observation; something known to be true.
Based on this definition several statements by MG asserted as FACT are, in fact, not fact. MG please be more careful-sloppy analysis reflects poorly on you and is, in fact, irritating to read. Esp. when you capitalize the word you don't, in fact, understand. Fact lovers everywhere thank you.

 

[Anonymous]

I have only been watching pro cycling for about a year or so, and only viewing these forums for about half that. I've noticed that it seems nearly every person here is willing to show their dislike of Lance Armstrong. I understand why people do (I am however surprised at the degree of which people will post things to prove why they do), but my question is: Has it always been this way?

Back in the 1999-2005 era, was Armstrong as hated of a figure as he is now? I am not a fanboy, but I am an American so Lance is in the media regardless of what the true cycling fans want.

You lost me at "I have only been watching pro cycling for about a year"

 

[cavfan11]

You lost me at "I have only been watching pro cycling for about a year"

Hence why I was asking a question.

 

[Anonymous]

Hence why I was asking a question.

Uh, check the title junior. You want answers, don't come in swinging. It carries the smell of disingenuousness when you do.