Race Design Thread

[May0maniac]

Would be great as the last stage in the Giro. I'd much rather have a hard hilly circuit than a pointless flat one to end it with.

Yes, I don't think that they'd ever do that, but it would be awesome. But I like it when the final stage of the Giro is an approximately 30km long ITT, if you have another ITT before that an the last hard mountain stage 2 days before the final ITT, the result should be an exciting race.

 

[Netserk]

Yes, I don't think that they'd ever do that, but it would be awesome. But I like it when the final stage of the Giro is an approximately 30km long ITT, if you have another ITT before that an the last hard mountain stage 2 days before the final ITT, the result should be an exciting race.

So no mountain stage on the last Saturday?

 

[May0maniac]

So no mountain stage on the last Saturday?

I don't know, I like the mountain stage on the last Saturday and from a ratings standpoint it also is a great thing, but if the final stage is an ITT it could be better to have the last mountain stage on the last Friday.
You could have an easy stage on Saturday, it would be last chance for the sprinters and the GC guys would have a day to recover between the last mountain stage and the final ITT, but like i said, from a ratings standpoint having a mountain stage on the final Saturday makes totally sense for the Giro.

 

[Fus087]

Let's finish this quick.

STAGE 16: Verona - Montebelluna 161 kms
After the last rest day, the peloton heads to the awesome Montello, where it will climb 4 of its Prese. The first and the third are on sterrato, while the others (as well as all the descents) are on tarmac.

Nice stage! I was on the Montello for the Giro stage in 2013, would be great to have a hilly stage like this held there.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

If the Giro is finishing in Trieste, Monte Matajur is where the final mountain stage should end.

Tour of Russia Stage 7: Лазаревский (Lazaervskiy) - Красная Поляна (Лыжно?биатлонный комплекс "Лаура")(Krasnaya Polyana (Laura Cross-Country and Biathlon Complex)), 170km

Climbs:
Шахе (Shakhe)(cat.3) 1,4km @ 7,3%
Вардане (Vardanye)(cat.3) 1,6km @ 6,0%
Декабристов (Dekabristov)(cat.3) 2,6km @ 5,3%
Уч?Дере (Uch-Derye)(cat.3) 3,4km @ 5,4%
Барановка (Baranovka)(cat.2) 3,2km @ 8,0%
Лыжно?биатлонный комплекс "Лаура" (Laura Cross-Country & Biathlon Complex)(cat.1) 15,0km @ 6,0%

Intermediate Sprints:
Сочи (Sochi), 75km
Адлерцкий (Adlersky), 108km
Красная Поляна (Krasnaya Polyana), 148km

With most of the rest of the race having been for rouleurs and puncheurs, today is the one day that the grimpeurs can really claim for themselves. With the relentless up-and-down of the Krylatskoye Ring and 20km of TT in the race, hopefully this can become more than a "win-the-climb, win-the-race" type of event like races such as Oman, and instead be more of a Burgos type event, with time gaps levelled at such a position as to mean that at least some climbers are in with enough of a GC shout to give it a go early in the climb. And if a climber is up near the top of the GC that they can take it with a short distance foray, they'll deserve it for their tenacity in holding on in the tough rouleur stages.

This is very much a one-climb stage, despite how many categorized climbs there are. The problem with a country as spacious as Russia is that there is seldom a reason to have to go over big mountain passes because there is always an easier route; this stands in stark contrast to places like Italy or Austria where there is often simply no route more convenient than a hellacious col. This means that after the riders leave the affluent town of Lazarevskiy, part of the endless sprawl across the Black Sea coast that is centred around Sochi, the main road they will be taking goes all along the coastline. However, the absolutely flat route directly next to the beach is taken up by the railway (over long distances the train easily trumps the car in Russia) and so the M27 highway is full of small digs up and down and switchbacks and other tests, so the riders' legs will not exactly arrive at the base of the final climb without any stresses.

It's also a very scenic road in the summer, and even if the weather has started its downturn by late September/early October when the race would be held, it would have certain parallels to draw to Milano-Sanremo visually. The climbs get tougher the closer to Sochi we get, with the final one before hitting the main city, Uch-Derye, offering some spectacular visuals. Sochi itself will host the first intermediate sprint, outside the spectacular train station (you may remember this from my Sochi Worlds route) before a tough and steep ascent into the Baranovka suburb. At 3km @ 8% it is the toughest climb by far in this first half of the stage, but also the last until the very end (that ascent on the way to Krasnaya Polyana is a glitch).

After Sochi, the riders head towards the affluent Adlerskiy Rayon, which is where the second intermediate sprint is held. This is close to the Olympic park, however we turn inland and pass the airport before arriving there. Then, it's a long uphill false flat drag inland as we head for the Kavkaz mountains. The scenery gets progressively more spectacular culminating in, at 22km to go, the final intermediate sprint at Krasnaya Polyana with the main Olympic village for the Nordic and Alpine athletes.

At this point, I had a choice. I could climb up to the Alpine resort or to the Cross-Country one. The Alpine resort's climb is shorter but slightly steeper; it somewhat resembles Verbier. You all knew I would pick the climb to the Nordic stadium/biathlon venue, but I prefer it as a climb for cycling anyway. The climb is pretty tough, averaging just a shade under 7% for the first 12,5km, before flattening out for a kilometre and ramping up again in the last 600m again. The steepest ramps reach 17%, although the profile from tracks4bikers exaggerates the length of them a bit. These are also quite early in the climb so hopefully can see the moves made; there are also a lot of switchbacks so riders can quickly get themselves out of sight of the chasers. There will probably not be a broad field of elite climbers here, and so some useful climbers who are good in the hilly races could be names to watch here, with the examples of people like Dan Martin to consider, however reasonable climbers and TTers who can go well in at least one category of the Classics will be names trying to compete here and restrict losses - Kwiatkowski and Ur?n, for example. The timegaps opened up by the climb shouldn't be huge so it will need to be raced hard if climbers want it to be decisive. Only one more day to go.

Лазаревский:

Красная Поляна (Лыжно?биатлонный комплекс "Лаура"):

 

[fauniera]

I have designed a Worlds Road Race which takes place in an European town. Here is a hint about the location:

Any ideas?

 

[Netserk]

Although I haven't seen the movie, I can recognize it

 

[fauniera]

Well, but you see, Budapest would have been too obvious, so it's the wrong answer.

More hints:

 

[Netserk]

Karlovy Vary?

 

[fauniera]

Correct.

The design of the Grand Budapest apparently has been influenced by a few hotels in Karlsbad: the Palace Bristol (for the looks) and the Imperial (picture above), which towers over Karlsbad. Both hotels will feature in my worlds race, which i will present tomorrow. Now i'll get some sleep.

 

[lemon cheese cake]

Tour of Flanders/Ronde van Vlaanderen

Tour of Flanders/Ronde van Vlaanderen (Brugge ? Oudenaarde) 251.6km
Part 1 (Route, Profile, Climbs and Loops)

Climbs in order of arrival: (200 euros for the first to the top)
Big Loop
1. Eikenberg
2. Wolvenberg
3. Molenberg
4. Leberg
5. Berendries
6. Valkenberg
7. Tenbosse
8. Eikenmolen
9. Denderoordberg
10. Resteleustraat
11. Muur - Kapelmuur
12. Bosberg
13. Hurdumont
14. Kaperij
15. Kanerieberg
16. Kruisberg/Hotond
17. Oude Kwaremont
18. Paterberg

Small Loop Lap 1:
19. Koppenberg
20. Steenbeekdries/Stationberg
21. Taaienberg
22. Eikenberg
23. Edarelaberg

Small Loop Lap 2
24. Koppenberg
25. Steenbeekdries/Stationberg
26. Taaienberg
27. Eikenberg
28. Edarelaberg

Cobbled Sectors: (200 euros for the first to the end)
1. Holleweg
2. Ruiterstraat
3. Kerkgate
4. Paddestraat
5. Haaghoek
6. Mariaborrestraat (Small Loop Lap 1)
7. Mariaborrestraat (Small Loop Lap 2)

Bonus Sprints: (200 euros for the winner)
1. Waregem
2. Oudenaarde
3. Geraardsbergen
4. Ronse

The loops:

Other Stuff:
27 Climbs ? 1 ridden 3 times, 4 ridden twice (10 more than the 2014 edition)
7 cobbled sectors ? 1 ridden twice (One more than last year if you include the sector ridden twice
4 Bonus sprints (None in actual editions)
251 km (7km less than the 2014 edition)
Loops are different (No Oude Kwaremont, Paterberg finish)
7 extra climb?s (Kortekeer not climbed though)
200 euros at the Primes, end of Cobbled sectors and at the top of Climb?s (None in actual editions)

Start/Finish:

Description to follow

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Stage 8: Bolshoy Ice Dome (Большой Ледовый дворец) - Sochi (Сочи), 176km

Climbs:
Храм Князя Владимира (Church of St. Vladimir)(cat.3) 1,4km @ 5,5%
Барановка (Baranovka)(cat.2) 3,2km @ 8,0%
Лесная Улица (Lesnaya Ulica)(cat.3) 1,1km @ 6,8%
Дагомысская Улица (Dagomysskaya Ulica)(cat.3) 0,9km @ 9,0%
Храм Князя Владимира (Church of St. Vladimir)(cat.3) 1,4km @ 5,5%
Барановка (Baranovka)(cat.2) 3,2km @ 8,0%
Лесная Улица (Lesnaya Ulica)(cat.3) 1,1km @ 6,8%
Дагомысская Улица (Dagomysskaya Ulica)(cat.3) 0,9km @ 9,0%
Храм Князя Владимира (Church of St. Vladimir)(cat.3) 1,4km @ 5,5%
Барановка (Baranovka)(cat.2) 3,2km @ 8,0%
Лесная Улица (Lesnaya Ulica)(cat.3) 1,1km @ 6,8%
Дагомысская Улица (Dagomysskaya Ulica)(cat.3) 0,9km @ 9,0%
Храм Князя Владимира (Church of St. Vladimir)(cat.3) 1,4km @ 5,5%
Барановка (Baranovka)(cat.2) 3,2km @ 8,0%
Лесная Улица (Lesnaya Ulica)(cat.3) 1,1km @ 6,8%
Дагомысская Улица (Dagomysskaya Ulica)(cat.3) 0,9km @ 9,0%
Храм Князя Владимира (Church of St. Vladimir)(cat.3) 1,4km @ 5,5%
Барановка (Baranovka)(cat.2) 3,2km @ 8,0%
Лесная Улица (Lesnaya Ulica)(cat.3) 1,1km @ 6,8%
Дагомысская Улица (Dagomysskaya Ulica)(cat.3) 0,9km @ 9,0%

Intermediate sprints:
Сочи (Sochi), 52km
Сочи (Sochi), 102km
Сочи (Sochi), 152km

The final stage of my initial Tour of Russia, following the exact lines of the idea put forward for the race a couple of years ago, going from north to south and taking in the country's two biggest cities as well as the Sochi area, is arguably the toughest. This race has been an attempt to show that a Tour of Russia oil-money race being given World Tour status ? la Beijing wouldn't have to be a bad race; I think I've done a reasonable job. There are reasons for nearly everybody to feel like they have something to go for. There are stages for the sprinters early on, there is a decent-size but not too difficult MTF, there's a mid-length ITT, just long enough for the specialists, and there are a couple of hilly stages. The one thing missing was a true puncheur's day, and that's what this is an attempt to rectify. Also, if the MTF came after this, the race might get neutralized; now, this is the last chance for anybody to do anything, so the racing will need to get tough.

The stage begins at the 2014 Olympic park, close to Adlersky and the airport. The venue has been put together at a mind-scorching cost, equivalent to all previous Winter Olympics put together. They have sought to get further use out of it by setting up the brand new KHL team HC Sochi, and by setting up a Formula One racing circuit around the coastal cluster with limited success (what's wrong with Moscow Raceway?). The riders will basically do a Tour of Dubai-style pointless loop around the Olympic cluster for tourism purposes before heading along the coastal road to Sochi, where they will pass a couple of the city's formerly most iconic sites such as the imposing neo-classical theatre before entering five laps of a 25km circuit with four categorized climbs on it, three short, one more sustained.

The first climb is to the impressive New Orthodox Church atop the Novaya Sochi hill. Compared to some of the other religious buildings we've seen in this race it's nothing, but it marks a nice summit before a bit of false flat leading into the toughest climb of the day, which the riders got a preview of yesterday, a sharp ascent into the suburb of Baranovka, which is a proper Li?ge-type climb, just over 3km in length and averaging 8%, but not especially consistent, and occasionally reaching up to 18%. There are some nasty steep ramps here, and the descent, which largely very straight, is quite steep as well. The view from the summit is quite something though.

After this descent the riders cross to the southeast side of the river and then take on two smaller climbs which will be known to some of you who've followed this thread for years from my Sochi World Championship Road Race. The first climb is just over a kilometre at a pretty manageable gradient, then the second on Ulica Dagomysskaya, less than a kilometre long and the least visually arresting of the climbs, but averaging 9% so giving a platform for riders to do something. With five laps of this circuit, the final time up to Baranovka crests with 16km remaining; the final climb of all with just 4,8km to the line. With the circuit expanded to incorporate the rougher climb that would be overkill in a World Championships race, finishing outside the train station is no longer a possibility and so the finish has been moved to the slightly uphill drag just outside Komsomol'sky Park. This will also enable us to have a nice setting for the final presentations et al, because today we select the overall winner in the Tour of Russia.

Большой Ледовый дворец:

Сочи:

 

[fauniera]

Karlsbad / Karlovy Vary Worlds road race

Karlsbad is a spa town situated in western Bohemia, and is part of the Boehmisches Baederdreieck (with Franzensbad and Marienbad). In the 19. century it was probably the most famous spa in Europe. Today it is called Karlovy Vary and while it may have lost some of its glamour it is still the most visited spa town in the Czech Republic. The center of Karlsbad is situated in the Eger valley, the spa district however is situated a bit south of that in the narrow valley of the small river Tepla.

The road race will take place entirely inside the town, mostly in the spa district. This means there will be a lot of corners and next to no rest for the riders. It is sort of the opposite of Ponferrada with its long boring straights. There will also be quite a lot of cobbles (three of the four climbs are cobbled). These inner city cobbles are of course a lot easier to ride than Roubaix cobbles, but i'm sure they will have an effect nevertheless.



You can see the start of the first climb in the center left, and parts of the third climb at the right of the picture. The street in the center (Kurstrasse) will also be used.






Start and finish is at Theaterplatz in the center of the spa. After crossing the Tepla, the first climb starts immediately. It is 400 meters long and 9% steep, with some stretches above 10%. It is the only asphalt climb of the day. At the top of the climb the Palace Bristol Hotel looms. After the descent the riders will leave the spa for a short while. They will cross the Eger and tackle the first cobbled climb of the day, which is more a drag than a climb. Then the race returns to the beautiful spa district, with some more (flat) cobbles and its glorious architecture. Via Kurstrasse the race leads into the center of the spa. The riders will the cross the river Tepla again, and they will do so directly at the Sprudel, the most famous of Karlsbads hot springs. The road then narrows on light cobbles, while the scenery gets even prettier. It will be important to be in front here, as this narrow road leads directly into the next cobbled climb, which is quite narrow itself. The climb is 400 meters long and 9% steep. There is no direct descent, instead the riders will continue on a panorama road, which will provide nice views of the town below.

After about one kilometer the riders will finally descend into town, and this descent is on cobbles as well. Descending on cobbles may be controversial, but i think it is feasible. The cobbles aren't that bad, and the left hander towards the end of the descent should also be manageable. The descent is immediately followed be the next climb, actually the riders will climb up the same hill they just had ridden down from. This final climb is cobbled as well and rather steep (280 meters at 12%, including some even steeper bits). Just like before there is no direct descent, the parcours stays in the higher parts of Karlsbad for more than a kilometer and visits Hotel Imperial. There is a last little rise in the park of the hotel, before the riders will ride through the entrance of the hotel, which may not have happened in a worlds race so far. Maybe Monsieur Gustave can hand the riders a bidon or a cup of tea? The descent is on a broad asphalt road, the final 1,5 km are flat along the Tepla. The final bend (here on the left, with the Grand Hotel Pupp in the background) comes with 300 meters to go, the finishing straight is slightly downhill, although i think the profile is exaggerating the gradient slightly. Finish right here in the center.

The lap is rather short with 12,6 km, therefore i suggest 20 laps to be ridden, which will result in a distance of 252 km and 4.320 meters of climbing. I think that this parcours should suit quite a lot of riders. The classics guys will be happy about the nervous character and the cobbles, climbers will like it too, and even versatile sprinters can't be ruled out, as all the cllimbs are rather short. Should be interesting.

soundtrack

 

[togo95]

Tour of Flanders/Ronde van Vlaanderen (Brugge ? Oudenaarde) 251.6km

Really nice route, although personally I think I would have preferred the second small loop to avoid koppenberg.

 

[lemon cheese cake]

Really nice route, although personally I think I would have preferred the second small loop to avoid koppenberg.

I want to see a tough race where the riders have to use any opportunity to get back on to the group in front. I know its not the Koppenberg as you were saying, but Tom Boonen would probably use the Taaienberg to good affect on the final time around

 

[lemon cheese cake]

Tour of Flanders/Ronde van Vlaanderen (Brugge ? Oudenaarde) 251.6km
Link to Part 1

Part 2 (Description):
This what we have here is race that is a lot tougher than the actual event. With the amount of climbs, this is more like a cobbled Amstel Gold Race but in Belgium. Like the event now does, this starts in Brugge and finishes in Oudenaarde. From Brugge, they head towards the start of the race proper in Oostkamp. From there the riders will head to Ruddervorde, home of the superprestige cyclocross. From here its on to the town of Waregem and its Hippodrome. The Hippodrome also had the BK cyclocross champs in 2014, while it holds the masters cyclocross each year. This town is also the first venue for an imaginary competition for bonus prizes of 200 euros.

We will continue headding south until the pack gets to the finish at Oudenaarde. After heading the wrong way through the finish, the rideers shall head out towards the first climb. This is the Eikenberg At an average of 5.6% for 1.1kms, its not the longest or toughest of climbs out on the course. However it will be a climb that sorts out the podium as we will find out later on. Then its the short trip to the Holleweg. After that, the riders will take on the second Hellling. The Wolvenberg has an 6.3% for 0.8 kms. Following on from that, is the Ruiterstraat cobbled sector. After that the riders shall head for the Kerkgatecobbles. Onwards, the riders will reach Horebeke. After that the riders will hit the Molenberg. This is another short Berg (0.5km) but is steep (9.8km). The Paddestraat cobbles will be tackled afterwards. Next up is the Haaghoek, followed in quickly by the Leberg. This is very short and not too steep either. A little while after comes the Berendries which is relatively steep. The riders will head onto the outskirts of Brakel. This has the climb of the Valkenberg. Profile here.

From now until later we are on the bit of course I have added in. We start this by climbing the Tenbosse. This has been used in races like the 3 days of de Panne and the Eneco tour it is only 0.4kms long but has an average of 6.9%. Shortly after is another climb feature in both those races. This is the Eikenmolen. As you could see from Tom Boonen's face, its pretty gruelling. There is a little respite until we reach Geraardesbergen. The first of four climbs in this area is the Denderoordberg. Then we have the Resteleustraat. Its pretty narrow so might not be suitable for a race like this. After a quick winding descent into Geraardesbergen, The riders will start the Kapelmuur. At 6.8% the 1km climb will do the first sort out for the riders, but wont decide to race. The riders will carry on to the Bosberg. This was the final climb before the route was changed to what it now is. From here the riders shall arc round to the Hurdumontclimb. This is the last new edition to the race but is still pretty hard as the middle part of the climb is 10% or above. From here the riders will climb the Kaperijthe wrong way round. Going from the opposite directtion, means I have no profile or anything for it. Once back on a course more familiar to the riders, they will climb the Kanerieberg. This is the first climbback on the normal route. The riders will descend into Ronse for the Kruisberg. But before that there is a prime in Ronse its self. The Kruisbergis 1.8kms at 4.8%. After that the riders will have the Oude Kwaremont (2.2km at 4.2%) followed by the Paterberg(0.3km at 13.7%). These where final two climbs in the new style Tour of Flanders.

The circuits shall be started after the Kortekeer is avoided. The Koppenberg is the first on the loops. It is pretty hard and will along with the others on the circuit be climbed twice. Its 0.6km at 10.2%. The climb is used in the Koppenberg cross that is part of the Bpost trofee cx series. The riders will have little respite as they hit the Mariaborrestraat cobbles. Once over that the riders will have the Stationberg/Steenbeekdries. From here its a short trip to the Taaienberg (0.8km at 5.6%), then the Eikenberg (again). All these shall be climbed once more. The riders will then leave the circuit to head into the centre of Oudenaarde.. They will finish in the square, and pass the Centrum Ronde van Vlaanderen in the process.

 

[Lupetto]

Okay. What is this? I was thinking of a battle of the race designers. It is quite simple.

The Rules

I will give you a task for a race to design and you will send your race via PM or Mail to me. If you need my mail address, just sent me a pm. I have disabled the direct mail function. Once I have received your races, I will put them into a PDF file and post it here. Then the voting phase starts and every member of the forum can vote for their favorite course. So we will get a winner.

Deadline
Wednesday, 25th March 2015, 23:59h

What you send
-> An overall map of your race
-> Maps and Profiles of every stage
-> A stage description and a short race description why you choose this location or region.
-> Your key for Point, Mountain-Points and/or other point systems you might invent
-> How and if riders can gain bonus seconds on stages and in the stagefinish
-> The teams you would invite and how many riders are allowed per team

The Task

Unfortunately our friends of the Amaury Sport Organisation and the Corsican city of Porto-Vecchio didn?t extend their contract for the annual Crit?rium International. This race takes place on the last weekend of March and is listed by our other friends UCI as a 2.HC event. ASO now wants us to find a new location for this race and oh yes La Corse was great. The ASO wants the race to go down on the same weekend as every year, but they are willing to talk about the modus operandi. So you are not obliged to go with one normal stage and two half stages with one of those being an individual time trial. The only thing that has to stay are two days of racing. Also the ASO decided that the race is free to leave France and look for new opportunities. Of course they still want to invite like six to eight World Tour Teams. And as you might know, these teams are running on a tight calendar, so they might won?t fly to Australia for the weekend or race in the middle of the Alps at the end of March.

And of course, you are not Angelo Zomegnan, so you need to keep the UCI conditions for a 2.HC race.
-> A maximum of 240k per stage
-> A maximum average daily distance of 180k
-> A maximum of 60k for itt or ttt

I hope you guys like my idea.

Send me your routes!! Please.

Great Worlds road race, Fauniera. Exciting course.

 

[McLovin]

Send me your routes!! Please.

Great Worlds road race, Fauniera. Exciting course.

Next week.

 

[Netserk]

Send me your routes!! Please.

Great Worlds road race, Fauniera. Exciting course.

There's two weeks to deadline and I have just recently decided where I want it to be. I want to put some effort into it ;-)

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Can we extend the deadline in view of the fact that the thread is unusable at present? If a way of fixing the links does present itself, it's going to be a mammoth task. If there is no way, we may as well abandon the thread entirely, which would piss me off no end.

 

[May0maniac]

Re:

Can we extend the deadline in view of the fact that the thread is unusable at present? If a way of fixing the links does present itself, it's going to be a mammoth task. If there is no way, we may as well abandon the thread entirely, which would piss me off no end.

The race design thread used to be one of those things that I really like about this forum, nice people who genuinely love cycling and express their towards the sport love by designing awesome stages that would make for great racing, being forced to abandon this beautiful thread would suck, especially for someone like you who has put a lot of work into it.

 

[fauniera99]

The thread really is unusable now and the archive seems to be lost, what a shame. Maybe we should move to a different forum which isn't run by ignorant people.

 

[lemon cheese cake]

The thread really is unusable now and the archive seems to be lost, what a shame. Maybe we should move to a different forum which isn't run by ignorant people.

Can we extend the deadline in view of the fact that the thread is unusable at present? If a way of fixing the links does present itself, it's going to be a mammoth task. If there is no way, we may as well abandon the thread entirely, which would piss me off no end.

The race design thread used to be one of those things that I really like about this forum, nice people who genuinely love cycling and express their towards the sport love by designing awesome stages that would make for great racing, being forced to abandon this beautiful thread would suck, especially for someone like you who has put a lot of work into it.

Looks like its usable apart from the library links.

 

[Pricey_sky]

Re:

Send me your routes!! Please.

Great Worlds road race, Fauniera. Exciting course.

Just seen this so I will try and get something done quickly for next week.

 

[Netserk]

I'm almost done with the route (though I might change it a couple of times from now and to the deadline ) but there's still all the other stuff missing. I think I'll be ready for the deadline.