Race Design Thread

[May0maniac]

Re:

College is done for the semester so I am going to start pumping out Tour of California stages here soon. Will post a recap of the first 2 stages when I do so as it has been quite a while.

Been busy with other potential projects as well including a couple stages in the Death Valley Las Vegas area, a New England stage race, and a Giro is taking shape in the distance.

Good to hear, those American stage races should be interesting.
Recently I've tried to design a sage race in Nevada that starts around Las Vegas and ends near Carson City (about 5 stages), but the biggest problems is finding towns that are big enough to host a (transitional) stage, many stages are just ghosttowns, so you're almost forced to make very long sprint stages and you also have to deal with long transfers.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Right, last short stage race before I have a go at Echoes' beloved Tour de France... what is in incredible fact only the second attempt I've had at the Vuelta al País Vasco, my favourite stage race (although I have done two Iparraldeko Itzuliak and an 11-day extended Euskal Herriko Itzulia utilizing the full territory claimed under the Zazpiak Bat consideration). The problem with the Itzulia is that, like a few other races such as the Giro or the Österreich Rundfahrt, there's simply so much choice that narrowing it down to a six stage race without making it six straight unrealistic monster stages is difficult. I think here, however, I've produced a not unrealistic, achievable but interesting Vuelta al País Vasco that uses a variety of stage terrains and mixes the familiar with the, if not innovative, then at least little-known, and keeps regular host towns happy while doing something a little different with them. I've also kept the same format as the real race (stage 1 starting and finishing in the same town, other stages going from host town to host town without transfer, final stage TT in same town as the stage 5 finish).

Stage 1: Plentzia - Plentzia, 162km

GPM:
Gurutzemendi (cat.3) 3,0km @ 6,3%
Isuskiza (cat.3) 1,5km @ 10,3%
San Pelaio (cat.2) 3,0km @ 6,5%
Sollube (cat.1) 4,2km @ 9,3%
Gurutzemendi (cat.3) 3,0km @ 6,3%
Isuskiza (cat.3) 1,5km @ 10,3%
Gurutzemendi (cat.3) 3,0km @ 6,3%
Isuskiza (cat.3) 1,5km @ 10,3%

The northern coast of Bizkaia to the west of the Urdaibai estuary is, in recent years, a rare trip for the race. Although the race can enter into the region, it's been a long time since it stopped there. The terrain of this stage was in fact barely even touched by 2015's Bilbao - Bilbao stage! The last time this part of Euskadi hosted the race was in 2001, when Stefano Zanini won a reduced bunch sprint in Mungia, then the same town hosted the start of the following stage up onto the plateau of Araba, with Davide Rebellin winning in Araia. It's much more commonly seen in the Emakumeen Bira, the women's version of the former Euskal Bizikleta, where last year Emma Johansson won from a group of 10 to put into motion that frantic final duel between herself, Moolman-Pasio and Niewiadoma with the latter holding onto a single second's advantage to the end, and in 2014 when Pauline Ferrand-Prévot launched a lengthy solo in a stage around Mungia to take the stage and the GC. The one men's race that we regularly see in the area is the Circuito de Getxo, the flattest of the Basque one-day races and subsequently unfortunately the one that draws the weakest field, not helped by proximity to the Volta a Portugal which harms the extranjero participation; in its worst year, only nine teams and 62 riders took the start, although it does seem to be improving again of late, slowly.

The town I've chosen for the stage today is Plentzia, which is the most distant station accessible on MetroBilbao, although in order to access it at present one must alight the train at Sopelana and take a free shuttlebus through Urduliz to the town. It is a scenic town, as so many Basque coastal towns are, on the estuary of the river with which it shares its name, and with a popular beach area thanks to its shelter in the bay; it's a very clean and quiet beach at the time of the race, which gets increasingly busy in the summer with visitors from the rest of the Bilbao metropolitan region. While the main body of the town is slightly in from it, I'm going to put the start/finish close by the beach to allow for a safer run-in, close to the municipal boundary where the town blends into neighbouring Gorliz.

As often seen with opening Itzulia stages, this one's a bit of a confusing, Amstel Gold-like dumping of spaghetti on a terrain map design consisting of three overlapping courses:
1 - Plentzia - Plentzia via Mungia, Loiu, Getxo, Sopelana, Gurutzemendi, Isuskiza
2 - Plentzia - Urduliz via Gorliz, Bakio, Bermeo, Mungia, Sopelana, Gurutzemendi, Isuskiza
3 - Urduliz - Plentzia via Gurutzemendi and Isuskiza

The first circuit is the flattest, first heading east to Mungia then turning south and passing by the Aireportua in the suburb of Loiu, the opposite side of Artxanda from Bilbao and neighbouring Lezama, known for Athletic Bilbao's fabled cantera and training facilities. We then head westwards for the Nervión estuary and pass through Getxo before heading up the coast to the surf town of Sopelana, situated along picturesque coastline.

Turning toward the Rio Plentzia, we take on the main two climbs of the stage for the first time, a sighter for the péloton if you will. The first, Gurutzemendi, is a typically inconsistent Basque ramp whose benign stats hide its challenges. The climb profile showcases it a bit more, with that first kilometre at 11% including ramps of nearly double that, before a slight descent, a kilometre of false flat and then a steeper last 500m that get up to 17%. This shouldn't be fun. Here, this will go to the break, but the final time over this is just 15km from the line; the descent takes us into Urduliz, home of the Lointek petrochemical company which sponsors a Fundación-Euskadi linked amateur team alongside Koplad-Uni2, and more famously the well-established Lointek women's team, probably the #2 team in Spain after local rivals Bizkaia-Durango, although struggling this season with the loss of Sheyla Gutiérrez, their best rider, to Cylance.

From Urduliz we have the Abánico de Plentzia, also known as Isuskiza after the nearby village, a typically Basque puncheur climb which will serve as excellent Ardennes warmup terrain, especially as on its final ascent there will be just eight kilometres to the line, the ideal kind of distance for riders to be just thinking about maybe going "early" in a modern Ardennes classic... it's not as steep in terms of ramps as Gurutzemendi but it does get up to 15% and it is unrelenting, unlike the previous climb, so should give plenty of opportunity to break up the race.

After the riders return to Plentzia the first time, we have the second lap, up the northern coast of the region. This takes us to the fishing town of Armintza and then on the twisting roads around the nuclear centre at Lemoiz, somewhat incongruously built into otherwise pristine coastline.

From here we have an uncategorized climb, but I'd warn that it shouldn't be too underestimated; it will see no moves as it's miles and miles from the finish, but it will all add up come the end of the day. It amounts to the first 4,2km of this profile, so a couple of not inconsiderable climbing kilometres followed by a bit of false flat before descending into the wonderful town of Bakio.

Then, we have a more serious climb, to San Pelaio, a fairly consistent (unusual for the region) ascent which allows us to overlook one of País Vasco's tourist magnets, the isolated hermitage of San Juan de Gaztelugatxe, accessed by a difficult staircase off the end of an isolated dead end road. The descent from San Pelaio takes us into one of my favourite Basque towns, the pristine fishing town at the end of the Urdaibai estuary (and home of the Urdaibai team that is my favourite in the estropadak, the series of rowing competitions along the north coast of Spain so beloved of the Basques, Cantabrians and Galicians) that is Bermeo.

Bermeo also has some great cycling history, as for a period in the 50s and 60s, with Bilbao hosting the end of the Vuelta most years and Otxandio native Jesús Loroño a local favourite, it would often be the start of the last real climbing challenge of the Vuelta, the Puerto de Sollube. This mythical mountain still features in many Basque amateur races and regularly in the Itzulia, though less frequently than it used to. The traditional side of the climb is decent enough, but here I've plumped for the harder side via Almike, which has 2km at nearly 12% in the middle and gradients up to 20%. It won't be decisive at 63km from the line, but it will sort some wheat from some chaff. Following this there's a rolling stretch where the riders will cross over the earlier loop in Mungia but instead of looping down by the airport will continue straight over to Sopelana, so as to reach the final stretch of climbs, where they will take on Gurutzemendi (at 28km from home) and Isuskiza (at 22km from home) a second time, but instead of crossing the bridge back into Plentzia they will continue straight on to take on this savage double-kick again at 15km and 8km from the line before crossing into town.

As the roads through Plentzia itself are narrow, the riders have a slight, but not categorization-worthy, bump as they ride up and over the old part of town, descending to a sharp hairpin right just inside the final kilometre before a flat ride past the small town port and finish by the beach. This should be a nice stage for the puncheurs and give them a chance to make inroads before the more serious climbing begins.

 

[togo95]

What a beautiful stage that is

 

[railxmig]

Thanks @Max Rockatansky and @Gigs_98 for kind words. I'm unsure if not to wait with my Tour de Pologne as there seems to be now a rather heavy traffic in this thread. Actually since it became sticky it's hard to find any place here. @Gigs_98 just begun his Giro with a LBL-esque stage and i'm not sure if intersecting with it is a cultural thing to do. Besides i would put us both out of the spotlight.

I guess i'll just try to get with this Tour de Pologne as fast as i can just to give @Gigs_98 the full spotlight for his Giro. So today i'll try to post two stages in one post and because these stages are uncomplicated so it shouldn't give too much of a headache.

First stage is the most boring you'll ever see, sprinters need to pay their bills too so let they have a stage for themselves. Propably they'll have another chance on the next stage but run-in won't be as uncomplicated as today. Propably the most interesting fact of this stage is that it goes from one Teutonic Catle to the ruins of another such castle.

Tour de Pologne - library: link.

Tour de Pologne - stage 3. Bytów - Toruń, 202km, ~130m asc, flat

Start: Bytów, Wojska Polskiego, Wyszyńskiego Square
Km 0: Bytów, Generała Sucharskiego, 2,1km from the start
Start – km0: Wojska Polskiego - Dworcowa - Rondo Kaszubskie - Generała Sucharskiego
Finish: Toruń, Bulwar Filadelfijski, Ruiny zamku krzyżackiego, 160m straight (700m last turn)
Sprint 1: Chojnice, Gdańska, 350m straight
Sprint 2: Świecie, Wojska Polskiego, 1,8km straight
Feed zone: Tuchola, Główna

Climbs:
Chełmno - 2km, 3%, 3 Cat, 85m

This stage is flat. It's so flat that i've decided to categorise a small bump which shouldn't be categorised (similar one 2 years ago wasn't) just to give something for the breakaway. I won't write much about the stage itself as there's basically nothing to write there. I will try to keep this post short, not overwrite it.

This stage starts in a medium sized city of Bytów which lies in Eastern Pomerania roughly 100km east of Koszalin. It lies in the border of Kashubia teritory which belongs to Kashubians which is one of the ethnic groups living in Poland. They are the remnants of medieval Pomerania Slavs. Their coat of arms is a mythical creature known as gryf which is a combination of a lion's body with an eagle's head which was a coat of arms for most of Pomerania regions. They have their own tradition, geographical names and language which is rather closely related to polish with some additional germanic flavor but it's considered as different to polish language.

Double named village of Puzdrowo roughly 40km north-east of Bytów.

Bytów is mostly known for a Teutonic castle built in XIV/XV c. which survived in a good condition to this day. Area around Bytów is packed with lakes, forests and small shallow hills. It's part of Eastern Pomerania's interior which is clogged with forests and lakes.

Teutonic castle in Bytów.

Mausz Lake east of Bytów.

I'm not sure if there is any need to write about how the Teutonic Order find their way in the Baltic area. At first they were supposed to protect Poland thanks to then Mazovian prince Konrad Mazowiecki, which at the time was in a district breakdown period, from Baltic tribes like Prussians, Lithuanians, Warmians and a tribe known as Jadźwingowie (Jatvans?) and to christianise them because Baltic tribes were at the time pogans. They managed to assimilate (destroy!?) and turn into christianity most of those tribes but Lithuanians who meanwhile gained in power and territory. Most of Belarussia and even north Ukraine were Lithuanian. Teutonic Order was soon interested not only in turning remaining pogan Baltic tribes into christianity but in building their own strong territory closely related with Germany. Their job technically ended in 1386 when Lithuania officialy converted into christianity from Poland but it didn't end any of Teutonic teritorial aspirations. Those skirmishes ended up in an open war known as Polish–Lithuanian–Teutonic War which culminated in 1410 in the battle of Grunwald. The Battle of Grunwald was in XIX century transferred into a painting by Jan Matejko.

The Battle of Grunwald painting by Jan Matejko.

Now back to cycling. Riders will gather in Bytów on the north side of Wyszyńskiego Square (Wojska Polskiego street) which is near the castle. They will go via Wojska Polskiego, Dworcowa and Generała Sucharskiego (route 212) to reach km 0 on Generała Sucharskiego street 2,1km from the start. Then they will go via route 212 to Chojnice.

Wyszyńskiego square in Bytów with St. Katherine church.

First roughly 60km are in the forests and lakes with only few villages in between. Most of this terrain is riddled with bigger and smaller protected areas with Bory Tucholskie National Park being the biggest and most serious. The biggest of all these lakes in the area is Charzykowskie Lake which belongs to the mentioned national park (in its west border). It's like 10km north of Chojnice and riders will pass it just a couple of kms from west (here it's not a protected site).

Charzykowskie Lake. In the foreground part of Bory Tucholskie National Park forest.

After being close to Charzykowskie Lake riders will reach Chojnice. Chojnice was a stronghold which was crucial in protecting the main track between Teutenic Order (later known as East Germany) and main Germany. To this day left are fragments of city walls with a gate (Człuchowska Gate) and a couple of defence towers. The first sprint of the day will be held in Chojnice, 60km from the start on Gdańska street after roughly 350m straight. After it riders will go into Chojnice – Toruń route 240 to reach Tuchola.

Chojnice's remains of city walls and three towers.

Tuchola is a town/small city located roughly 25km south-east of Chojnice. It's known since XIII c. when it supposedly was a trading centre. Later in XIV c. thanks to Teutenic Order it got its city walls and a castle. Sadly most of the buildings were ruined thanks to constant wars in XVII and XVIII c. and a fire in 1781. There will be a feed zone in Tuchola. Quite early considering this stage is over 200km but next like 50km are exclusively in forests east of Tuchola.

After Tuchola riders will go into Świecie. There is a much faster possibility to reach Świecie via route 240 but i wanted to bypass an intersection with express S5 Gdańsk – Wrocław road. Most of these 50km are in the forests east of Tuchola with only a handfull of villages to differentiate scenery. 15km off Tuchola there is a small village of Wielkie Gacno which is an open-air museum with a couple of houses from the turn of XIX and XX c. 10 km later there is a sizeable village of Tleń which is now a local spa over the Żurskie Lake which was created for a water power plant in 1929 but now it's mostly a place for water sports.

Żurskie Lake in Tleń.

There are more lakes in the area (like Trzebciny Lake halfway between Wielkie Gacno and Tleń) and much more, hidden in the forests. 6 km after Tleń is a small town of Osie where riders will turn right into Świecie. Świecie is a city located on the coast of the Vistula river – biggest and most important river in Poland. It's known since XII c when it was a capital of a local duchy. In 1309 it was captured by Teutonic Order. They built a castle which preserved to this day. It' a very unorthodox city, very long and tight with long patches of parks, grass and other unused terrain. The second sprint of the day will be on Wojska Polskiego street (main street in Świecie) after 1,8km straight.

Teutonic Castle in Świecie.

After Świecie riders will cross over Vistula river on route 91 (before A1 highway this road was the Gdańsk – Cieszyn national route 1, one of the busiest in Poland). Interestingly there is no nearby accessible bridges over Vistula. The closest one are in Bydgoszcz and Grudziądz which are good 50 km north and south of Świecie. After the bridge riders will enter a patch of land known as Chełmno Land immediately reaching the outskirts of Chełmno.

Chełmno is known since the early Middle Ages and it was very important in early Poland. In X c. propably with Włocławek (another forgotten city located between Toruń and Płock) it was a city which was setting out the north-east border of Poland. It's known that there was an early basilica from XI c. It was this city that Teutonic Order chosen as their first capital when they arrived in Poland in 1228. Later it belonged to Hanza League but it didn't managed to keep the pace with nearby Toruń. Thankfully history was relatively light for Chełmno (besides a genocide by nazis in 1939 and killings of polish elite in nearby village of Klamry) so today it sports a mostly untouched historic downtown.

Chełmno's downtown with a renaissance city hall – now Chełmno Land Museum.

There will be a small categorised rise outside Chełmno which is 2km at 3% (max 5%) which of course is cat. 3. This hill shouldn't be categorised (in 2014 similar one outside Chełmno wasn't) but i decided to categorise it to keep the profile more colorful and as a small bait for the breakaway. Next 15 km to Unisław should be known from 2014 Tour de Pologne stage 1. In Unisław riders won't turn right into Bydgoszcz but left and after 300m right through the town into Toruń.

From Unisław there are roughly 30km of stage left. The road is wide and flat. There isn't much to write about the surroundings besides a village of Zamek Bierzgłowski just outside Toruń. It was one of the most important Teutonic castles in the area. The castle is from XIII c. and it (after a couple of modernizations) managed to preserve to this day. It's one of the biggest tourist attraction in the Chełmno Land besides Toruń.

Before Toruń there will be a 5km patch of forest known as Barbarka in which Nazis murdered 600 to 1200 Jews and Poles. Barbarka was known since XIV c. when it had a chapel and a spring which supposedly had healing properties. After Barbarka riders will reach main Toruń from Szosa Chełmińska street. Then they will go through Solidarności alley before turning right into Sikorskiego street 1,5km from the finish line. After 400m they will turn left into Jana Pawła II street (John Paul II) and after another 300m right into Bulwar Filadelfijski street (Philadelphia Bvd?) where the finish line is located. It will be located close to the ruins of a Teutonic castle after roughly 700m straight with a very small bend around 160m from the finish line.

Ruins of a Teutonic castle in Toruń.

In terms or monuments in Poland Toruń is practically only next to Kraków, it's whole downtown is listed in UNESCO. There may be some controversy with finishing in Toruń as i need to croos a tram line two times but it seems that Tour de Pologne doesn't have that big of an issue with them when having stages in Warszawa, Bydgoszcz, Kraków or Katowice. Actually with this Tour de Pologne i'm not going with hyperrealism so i should not care much about that. Riders won't have much time for celebrations as a quite lengthy transfer to Łódź awaits.

 

[railxmig]

Now the second and last stage for today. I better speed up before @Libertine at last will decide to post the Tour to which i wait with thrills on my skin. Unless Libertine will prefer to lose time with n-th Vuelta or Pais Vasco as i see now . The last bit was of course sarcastic if someone didn't get it.

This stage is officially flat but can be considered as hilly, even if it will most propably end in a sprint. It's more of a Degenkolb type sprint for tougher sprinters as last 5km are quite bumpy (with a cat. 3 hill) with last 300 to 500m slightly uphill at around 2-3%. This finish can throw purer sprinters off guard. Most propably there won't be any GC action as these hills are relatively shallow and far in between.

Tour de Pologne - library: link.

Tour de Pologne - stage 4. Łódź - Kielce, 203km, ~430m asc, flat

Start: Łódź, Piotrkowska, outside Plac Wolności
Km 0: Łódź, Piłsudskiego, Centrum Handlowe Tulipan, 4,2km from the start
Start - km0: Piotrkowska - Piłsudskiego
Finish: Kielce, Księdza Piotra Ściegiennego, Kolporter Arena, 330m straight, ~3% uphill
Sprint 1: Tomaszów Mazowiecki, Warszawska, 2,2km straight
Sprint 2: Kielce, Zagnańska, Piaski, 4,6km straight
Feed zone: Żarnów, 17 Stycznia, Route 74

Climbs:
Raszówka - 2km, 4,4%, 3 Cat. 363m
Masłów Pierwszy - 1,5km, 5,6%, 2 Cat. 391m
Przełęcz Krajeńska - 2,6km, 3,8%, 3 Cat. 414m
Bukówka - 0,7km, 6,2%, 3 Cat. 320m

This stage starts in Łódź, close to 200km south-east of Toruń. Łódź is the second biggest city in Poland (after the capital – Warszawa). Interestingly it's not very history rich as it's mostly an industrial, manufacture city which balooned in size thanks to textiles in XIX c. Not for a reason it's known as "polish Manchester". It lies in Łodzka plateau which is a hilly region up to 300m. a.s.l. in Mazovian Lowland. There are hardly any significant rises as most of the hills are very shallow.

Before XIX c. Łódź was a small agricultural village but good placement close to woods, countless amount of small creeks, rivers (now either drained or underground) and because this terrain belonged to state the village was reserved as a centre of a textile industry. It caused a big immigration of mostly German-born workers which caused the creation of a new, textile oriented city just south of the old location of Łódź. The central square of this new city is now known as Freedom Square (Plac Wolności).

Biggest textile factory of Izraela Poznańskiego in Łódź at the turn of XIX and XX c.

At the end of XIX c. Łódź was allready second largest city in what is today Poland. It was prosperous as long as WW2 after which socialists were more interested in maintaining gained territories in Pomerania and Lower Silesia and more iconic polish cities such as Warszawa, Kraków, Poznań, Wrocław, Gdańsk or Szczecin while Łódź became forgotten (which resulted in hunger demonstrations in 1981). Change in politics in 1989 from socialism to capitalism resulted in a crisis of remained textile factories. Now it mostly benefits from the central location in Poland. It's one of the biggest road junctions in Poland between highways A1 Gdańsk – Cieszyn and A2 Berlin – Warszawa and an important rail junction. Thanks to that Łódź seems to receive quite big interest from foreign concerns and corporations.

Today's stage will start on Piotrkowska street just south of Plac Wolności (Freedom Square). Piotrkowska is one of the longest market streets in Poland, it's over 4km long. It's crowded with bigger and smaller shops, restaurants etc. Basically it's the cultural centre of Łódź. Some of the stretches of this street are available for normal traffic with or without tram lines, some are restricted only to supply trucks. The section riders will use is restricted only to supply cars and without tram lines. They will gather south of Plac Wolności to not interfere with present there tram lines.

They will roll through Piotrkowska street as long as junction with Piłsudzkiego street. Piłsudzkiego street is one of those city highways popular in eastern Europe – two 3-lane roads. Riders will use the north one so to not interfere with present here tram lines. This road obviously seems to be traffic heavy but it isn't a national road, it's a local 713 road to Tomaszów Mazowiecki. Km 0 will be located on Piłsudzkiego street close to Centrum Handlowe Tulipan mall, 4,2km from the start.

Technically stages shouldn't start in the centre of an aglomeration but curiously Łódź has a very specific architecture. Most of the biggest roads are outside the downtown and if there is any heavy-traffic road it's basically a 6-lane highway. Even what seems to be a local 713 road looks like a wide highway. Piotrkowska, besides it's the most important road of Łódź it's composed of mostly restaurants, shops and small manufactures. Cars, besides supplies, are prohibited from using this road. Piłsudzkiego is a 6-lane highway which seems to be traffic-heavy but it's separated into two 3-lane roads so i hope cutting off one part of the road won't be that money eating. Actually because it's a wide and straight road and it's on the side without tram lines km 0 is basically close to the centre of the city. Thanks to that riders should burst through this highway relatively fast so it could be only closed for a short period of time.

Riders will burst through the outskirts of Łódź and adjacent towns like Andrespol (known for now defunct ceramic factory) for the next 20km when they'll leave the aglomeration in Kurowice village and after next 30km they'll reach the city of Tomaszów Mazowiecki. Before Tomaszów Mazowiecki there's a small town of Ujazd 38km from Łódź which is known since XIII c. It has a church from XVII c. and a mansion with a local park from XV c. (rebuilded in 1812) which belonged to Ostrowski family.

Mansion in Ujazd.

Tomaszów Mazowiecki was located by Antoni Ostrowski (landlord of Ujazd) around 1790. It had a massive growth in XIX c thanks to rapid development of textile industry. Soon it was second in the region after Łódź. Now it's in the shadows of it's former glory with most of the factories now defunct.

The first sprint of the day will be held in Tomaszów Mazowiecki on Warszawska street which is basically a long, two lane straight. It will be close to the end of Warszawska street after 2,2km straight. After the sprint riders will left route 713 and go alongside smaller road to Smardzewice village. As they'll be leaving Tomaszów they'll go over Pilica river (biggest left tributary of Vistula river), and close to a small protected zone of Niebieskie Źródła (blue sources). They will go with this local road as long as they'll reach national route 74 Łódź – Kielce and keep alongside it as far as Ćmińsk village on Kielce outskirts.

Blue Sources Nature Reserve in Tomaszow Mazowiecki.

Riders will enter national route 74 15km from Tomaszów Mazowiecki in the village of Wójcin. 8km later they'll pass through a small town of Paradyż known for it's now defunct bernardine monastery. Legends say that in XVII c. in local landlord's mansion a picture of Jesus began to spill a small amount of blood which supposedly had healing properties. This event inspired this landlord to bring bernardines and found them a monastery which is now defunct (since 1893) and a church (sanctuary since 1963).

Monastery in Paradyż.

8 km after Paradyż riders will pass through a small city of Żarnów. Żarnów is one of the oldest castellan towns in Poland known since X c. It has a church (st. Nicolas church) from XII c. The church obviously was modernized through the centuries but to this day it remained it's original romanesque architecture. In the center of town there's a hill (Góra Szwedzka – Swedish Mountain) where in X – XIII c was a settlement, now an archeologic site. The name of the hill is a homage to the Battle of Żarnów between Poland and Sweden in 1655 (which Poles won) during the Second Northern War when Swedes tried to invide every baltic country to have Baltic Sea as their "inland" sea. On the outskirts of Żarnów there'll be a feed zone.

St. Nicolas Church in Żarnów from XII c.

It's after Żarnów that hilly terrain begins to dominate over lowlands as riders now leaves Łódzka Land in favour of Kielecko-Sandomierska Highlands, where they will stay for the rest of the stage. These highlands extend as far as Sandomierz southeast of Kielce. Their highest point is a small hill range known as Świętokrzyskie Mountains (Holly Cross Mountains) of which more later in this post.

Kielecko-Sandomierska Highlands. You just barely can see Tomaszów Mazowiecki on the top left hand corner.

First hill just outside Żarnów is known as Sielecka Góra (284m a.s.l.) but it's a false flat with roughly 2km at 1-2%. Most of the run-in to Kielce is in woodlands between Łódzka Land and Świętokrzyskie District. There are however a couple of places to mention. Mniów, a village just before the first categorised hill of the day and roughly 15km north-west of Kielce is home to a sculpture which is considered as one of the more curious archeological discoveries in Poland. It's considered to be from neolith era and exhibits two devil like entites similar to greek god Pan. It's supposed they were some sort of agricultural gods.

After Mnin there'll be the first obstacle of the day – a small climb up to Raszówka which is 2km at 4,4% and it's a cat. 3 hill. After the descent riders will reach Ćmińsk and leave route 74 in favour of route 750 to Zagańsk. 9 km after Ćmińsk is a small town of Zagańsk which is mostly known of having one of the oldest trees in Poland. It's an oak known as "Bartek" which is around 645-670 years old.

Bartek Oak.

In Zagańsk they'll turn right straight into Kielce through the hilly but shallow woodlands (highest point – Sosnowica 413m a.s.l. where a small river flowing through Kielce – Silnica has it's roots). 8 km later in the northern outskirts of Kielce (Piaski district) there will be the second sprint of the day. It'll be on Zagnańska street after 4,6km straight. Riders now are on the outskirts of the finishing city and the sprint is located like like 5km from the finish line but there are still tricky 50km of stage left. It can be considered as a lap even if it technically isn't.

After sprint they'll turn left into Wincentego Witosa street and then after a couple of turns they'll leave Kielce via route 745 into Kielce-Masłów Airport where they'll turn left to find the next obstacle of the day. It's a quite steep climb at the foot of Klonówka hill (473m a.s.l.) up to Masłów Drugi (but this climb seems to be known as Masłów Pierwszy). It's 1,5km at 5,6% and it's a borderline 2/3 cat. I've decided to be generous for the breakaway and categorised it as a cat. 2 hill which results in the first ascent in this Tour de Pologne over cat. 3. There will be much more of such in the next upcoming two days.

Profile of Masłów Pierwszy hill.

Masłów Pierwszy is located on the western edge of a hill range similar to Ardennes. This range is known as Świętokrzyskie Mountains (i would call them hills rather than mountains, in english they're known as Holy Cross Mountains). It's not a big range, it reaches roughly from Kielce to Opatów, a city around 60km east of Kielce. They're one of the oldest hills in Poland, product of caledonian orogeny composed of mostly Cambrian stone. Highest peaks are Łysica (612m a.s.l.) and Łysa Góra (Bald Mountain, 595m a.s.l.). Actually the name Bald Mountain is not accidental as on the top of this hill, before christianity in Poland, it was a known slavic cult place.

The mentioned monastery is the oldest one in Poland, founded in year 1006. It's supposedly in possesion of relics from the Holy Cross, that's why the name of this range. Those relics supposedly are a couple of wood bales (if i understood correctly) from this cross. Legends say that these Holy Cross wood bales are there since early XI c. when a hungarian prince Emeryk supposedly give it to the monastery when seeing some hallucinations involving angels in this place.

Church on top of Bald Mountain.

I was planning on having a finish on top of Łysa Góra but sadly it's a protected area of Świętokrzyski National Park. This ascent is quite nice – 3,8km at 6% and it would be the first cat. 1 climb of this Tour de Pologne. It has a whole 1km at 9% (max 14%) and it would be a really fine puncher hill of Cauberg proportions.

Profile of Łysa Góra.

The planned stage would then look like this (with Masłów Pierwszy still as cat. 3):

This change resulted in the next stage being different but i'll write about these changes in the next post. Now back to the actuall stage. Next hill will be 14km from Masłów Pierwszy. It's Przełęcz Krajeńska – 2,6km at 3,8% (max at roughly 6%) and it's cat. 3 hill. The profile below is from Święta Katarzyna village, i've decided to count only last 2,6km which are the main ascent. This ascent is located on the foothills of the highest summit in the region – Łysica (612m a.s.l.). It's just outside Świętokrzyski National Park so i hope it shouldn't pose any problems. The mentioned Święta Katarzyna is known for it's small spring which was belived to have healing properties. Before christianity it was another place of a slavic pogan cult.

Profile of Przełęcz Krajeńska hill.

From Przełęcz Krajeńska there are still roughly 30km left. Riders will go with route 782 to Górno village where after an intersection with national route 74 they'll go into a smaller road to Daleszyce town 6km south of Górno. On the road to Daleszyce they'll pass a quarry; there are quite a bunch of these in area. In Daleszyce riders will turn left into Kielce via route 764.

12 km later, on the southern outskirts of Kielce there's the last difficulty of the day – a short but quite steep hill up to the village of Bukówka at the foot of Góra Dymińska (Dymińska hill, 385m a.s.l.). It's only 700m long at 6,2% but i've decided to categorise it as a cat. 3 thanks to it being only like 5km to the finish line. This hill and descent (shallow at 2-3%) are on a wide and relatively straight road. During descending riders will have an interesting sight on their right side as there's an inanimate nature reserve of Wietrznia hill (312m a.s.l.) created in place of an old quarry.

Descent ends in Kielce. There are roughly 2,2km to the finish. The run-in is quite complicated and tricky. First, on Wojska Polskiego street there'll be a small bump of around 500m at 3% (this bump is a part of small hill located just left of the road known as Psie Górki – Dog Hills), then on top of it a right turn into straight Stefana Żeromskiego street and a roughly 1km long descent at 3% with two 90deg left turns. Last 400m are on a slight rise of 2-3%.

Slightly uphill to the finish.

Finish line will be located on Księdza Piotra Ściegiennego in between Kolporter Arena and regional public library of Kielce after 330m straight line. Kolporter arena is a new stadium of Korona Kielce Football (Soccer) Club builded in 2006.

Kolporter Arena in Kielce.

As you can see this stage is flat only on paper. It will end in a sprint but a couple of hills in last 50km plus quite bumpy last 10km may tire purer sprinters. It is more for a somebody like Fellini, Mezgec or Matthews. On the last categorised hill to Bukówka somebody may try to catch sprint trains off guard or try to destroy them for his teammate's benefit. A local rider who has good acceleration and/or is good on flat like Paterski, Kurek or maybe even Kwiatkowski (who likes such 3-5km drags, but he will most propably wait for the next two days) could try to challenge sprint trains.

I'm not sure about the reality of such stage. I think there is a possibility of Kielce being a finish city and Kielce is interested in cycling (depart in stage 3 TdP 2014). I doubt Łódź will be ever interested, if TdP will start in Łódź it will be in one of the surrounding cities of the aglomeration (like most of the races tends to do). But TdP doesn't seem to have big problem with using centre of a big city and even making laps there (Warszawa, Bydgoszcz, Katowice, Kraków) so maybe an eventuall depart in the centre of Łódź is not that far away from reality. I'm not sure if TdP will ever use Świętokrzyskie range. Finish on Łysa Góra is propably out of consideration but a stage from Radom or even south outskirts of Warsaw idolizing this range in last 50-40km with a finish in Kielce could be a nice change of pace to first 2-3 pan flat TdP stages.

Using this range with finish in Kielce from west like i did with this stage is clumsy. I needed to stretch logic a lot here to transit from west of Kielce to east without extensive usage of highways (that's why the unnecessary short visit in north Kielce with a sprint). But i think last like 30km of this stage could be someday in Tour de Pologne. Even counting obvious laps in Kielce TdP could try to idolize hills just south of Kielce (known as Dymińskie range) using for example Krakowska (route 762) – Chorzowska (rail cross might be the biggest problem) – Posłowicka – Leśniówka – Sukowska – Klecka – Bukówka and then to the finish. Such lap would be 25 km long with a couple of smaller hills of which one or even two of them could be categorised. Another propability would be a smaller lap using national route 73. It would be then 15km long without any rail crossings, but not as hilly as the longer lap.

Possible laps in Kielce. Red line – longer lap, blue – shorter.

Next stage will have an interesting suprise located in the south-east Poland. Real life Tour de Pologne seems to only use the same roads over and over again. I think it's partly understandable as Poland doesn't have the tradition of paving goat tracks. Most of the roads are in valleys and there's just not many cols that are usable and yet would generate good time differences. If there is an intersting ascent it's most propable it's a dead end to nowhere. I really doubt Pologne will ever be eager to challenge roads of worser surface than asphalt but still there are some hills that went forgotten or are still to use like Równica, Orlinek (quite a weak hill for Van Avermaet or Kim Kirchen type of a rider, still it's a mystery to me how Kirchen managed to get a top 10 TdF GC), Okraj, Karpaty etc. I will try to show some of the hills i managed to find, and that i'm sure of their surface condition, in next two stages.

If nothing will change then these next two stages should be posted in next two days.

 

[Bye Bye Bicycle]

Re:

My race is designed as a difficult 2.2 race; although it had the registration of the CKT-Champion System team a few years ago, Armenian cycling is still in its developing stages. Despite the national disputes, I would expect to see Synergy Baku and Törku probably turn up to this race, along with a few of the Russian and Ukrainian development teams, Astana City, the Iranian motorbikes, and some national squads from the region.

Never ever.

I quote myself:

The other purpose is pure political propaganda: fighting the old war rival of Armenia (link). You don't find a lot of cycling teams that 'have paid respect to the spirit of all martyrs' (link). Or who 'light a fire to fight the liar' (link).

viewtopic.php?t=27816

 

[Libertine Seguros]

railxmig, the level of detail is incredible on even the flatter stages here, but you need to mention that Łódź is film director David Lynch's favourite city for additional bonus points

 

[Gigs_98]

Please railxmig don't do anything differently only because I started my giro. I usually don't post my stages very regularly anyway

 

[mikii4567]

Hey,

I am new to the forum, but have followed this thread for about a year now and want to join in. I have managed to design a race that I want to share. The only problem is that it is a Tour de Pologne, and we already have one of them going . Also, the thread seems busy at the minute, as railxmig claimed. Thus, I will wait until next week to post.

 

[Gigs_98]

Re:

Hey,

I am new to the forum, but have followed this thread for about a year now and want to join in. I have managed to design a race that I want to share. The only problem is that it is a Tour de Pologne, and we already have one of them going . Also, the thread seems busy at the minute, as railxmig claimed. Thus, I will wait until next week to post.

Welcome to the forum. I'm looking forward to it.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

If everybody does a race library after they finish it makes it easier anyhow, we can follow how the race is structured as it flows from those anyhow. But the more contributors the better, I'm not going to complain if the thread is active, lol.

Stage 2: Bermeo - Oñati (Santuário de Arantzazu), 171km

GPM:
Puerto de Aretxabalgane (cat.3) 6,7km @ 4,3%
Puerto de Urkiola (cat.1) 5,7km @ 9,2%
Puerto de Krutzeta (cat.3) 2,1km @ 7,9%
Alto de Asentzio (cat.2) 7,9km @ 5,1%
Santuário de Arantzazu (cat.1) 7,8km @ 6,0%

The second stage of the Vuelta al País Vasco is the one that features the toughest uphill finish, believe it or not (and it's not an especially tough one either) - in fact in terms of categorized finishes, this is the only one in the race. It does bear some similarities to the penultimate stage of the 2012 edition which I initially was critical of, however the uncategorized bump into Oñati itself turned out to be a much more significant climb than originally thought, and a combination of typically Basque euria falling heavily and an aggressive Robert Kišerlovski along with Sky failing to read the road book and drilling the pace late on to lead out a sprint only to be flummoxed by the final punchy climb led to a much more intense race than had been anticipated. That 2012 edition was a pure two-horse race between Purito and Samu, who each took two stages, and can be relived here.

We passed through Bermeo yesterday, of course, but today it serves as the starting point of a stage that will pass through many important Basque towns and cities and many important cycling spots. We start in the scenic Urdaibai estuary (aupa Urdaibai!) as mentioned in the stage 1 write-up, and quickly head northwards and into the mountains to a far greater extent than in yesterday's stage.

The first historic city we pass through is one of those cities that everybody who knows even the slightest thing about Spanish history will be familiar with: the legendary Basque stronghold of Gernika. The city houses the petrified trunk of the Gernikako Arbola, the old law-making tree which has long come to signify freedom for the Basque people. This particular oak is the second in the lineage of the tree and served as "the" arbol for 150 years. The city is, of course, much more famous outside of the region for the 1937 bombing, conducted by the Luftwaffe on behalf of the Spanish nationalist leaders, which represented one of the first - and still one of the most famous - attacks by an air force on a defenceless civilian population. It is of course maintained with much of its notoriety in the public consciousness as a result of Picasso's legendary painting, a mural to which (demanding the bringing of "Guernica" - the correct title of the painting, after the Castilian name for the town - to Gernika) stands in the town.

The city also has some cycling heritage, as the hometown of Basque cult hero and typically scrawny climber Roberto Laiseka and of the finest female cyclist the country ever produced, a prodigious all-rounder who specialised in the toughest stage races, Joane Somarriba - she won the Grande Boucle Féminin three times, the Emakumeen Bira three times (the first at just 18 years of age), and the Giro Donne twice, along with a World Time Trial Championships victory in 2003. It also backs into our first climb of the day, the multi-stepped Aretxabalgane, erroneously labelled "Puerto de" considering that "-gane/-gana" is the Basque word for a mountain pass. It essentially consists of a few false flat kilometres into Gerekiz, then a short descent and some much steeper and inconsistent ramps; at a more relevant part of the stage it would probably get cat.2 status; I also used it as the first of the decisive climbs in my brutal Pamplona-Bilbao stage in the 5th of my Vueltas.

The descent from Aretxabalgane takes us into the town of Larrabetzu, famous as the hometown of perhaps the first of the great Basque cycling txapeldunak, and one of the earliest Spanish greats, Jesús Loroño. The rivalry in the 1950s between Loroño and Bahamontes was perhaps the nearest thing Spanish cycling ever got to a Coppi-Bartali war, but the relatively provincial nature of Spanish cycling at the time, the Vuelta's propensity for adjusting its routes to attract foreign stars at the time, and some dreadful in-fighting and poor tactical acumen from the home racers prevented him from truly accumulating the palmarès he was capable of. Nevertheless, he did eventually take a victory in the Vuelta in 1957 after two near misses in the previous two editions, and during the early 50s when the race wasn't running he was able to win the King of the Mountains title in the 1953 Tour de France. He managed seven top 10s and three stage wins at the Vuelta to go with his win, along with a 5th in the Tour in 1957 and a 7th in the Giro the following year; known as a prodigious climber as you might expect from a direct head to head rival with Bahamontes, he also won the sporadically-held Subida a Arantzazu one-day race which finished on the same climb as my stage today. Jesús died in 1998 at the age of 72, and compared to contemporaries and antecedents he has been perhaps unfairly lost in the shuffle in cycling history. This is, however, arguably the man that started the popular tradition of inconsistent and temperamental Basque climbers.

While Loroño's temperament was fuelled by a competitive streak and a keen rivalry, however, our next stop-off is the hometown of one of the region's more recent heroes, inconsistent and temperamental in a different way; unreliable and with difficulty adapting to the pressures of leading. However, one of his greatest failings led to his greatest success, because we're passing through Galdakao.

Debatably the eastern terminus of the Bilbao metropolitan area, the town of Galdakao (and its offshoot, Usansolo, which has increased in size following the Euskotren's establishment and now is looking to separate itself from the town) is the home of one of the péloton's most fragile and infuriating riders to support, Igor Antón. Of course his greatest success came in the 2010 Vuelta until he crashed out, but his greatest win came about because he failed miserably in the role as leader in the following year's race; having been allowed into a breakaway because of how far down the GC he was, he attacked in his hometown, on the climb he grew up riding, to take the stage win in Bilbao on the return of the Vuelta to the Basque country after over 30 years; it was a truly special moment, and the crowd was well and truly whipped into a frenzy ready for his arrival at the end. In the last few kilometres fans were petrified that Bruseghin, the superior time triallist, could catch Fuji; I'm a fan of the Bruiser, but he would have been public enemy number one in Bilbao that night. On ETB1 that night the top news story of the day was that Igor Antón won the Vuelta stage in Bilbao. The second news story of the day was that Igor Antón attacked in his hometown leading to the win in Bilbao. Not the sports news: the main news. It was a big deal.

We then loop past Ugao-Miraballes to the south of Bilbao's suburbs, before hanging a left and heading over the uncategorized ascent of Sarasola. The descent from here takes us to Artea, and then eventually to Igorre, again a city with some cycling heritage; it is the host of the Spanish round of the Cyclocross World Cup when they are on the calendar - although in fairness it's not the most interesting of courses and the Hondarribia course would be preferable. It's also the hometown of another legendarily unreliable but mercurially talented Basque climber, the great cult hero that is Iban Mayo. If Iban could have ever truly replicated his short stage race form in a GT he'd have been an early round pick for me in the Doping Draft, although that might have meant forsaking either Beloki or Chava which would have been upsetting in and of itself. He's still quite popular in his home region nevertheless. From Igorre we head on to Amorebieta, which has... guess what? More cycling heritage!

With its locale amid the mountains and its bizarre town centre sculpture sarcastically nicknamed La Patata, Amorebieta has hosted a one-day race in spring known as the Klasika Primavera since the 50s. Initiated as the GP Amorebieta in 1946, its earliest winners were Dalmacio Langarica and Miguel Poblet, two of the Spanish greats of the era, and it has a prestigious winners' list including Antonio Karmany, Gabica, Pérez Francés, Txomin Perurena, Federico Echave, Lejarreta, Íñaki Gastón, Jalabert, Heras, Valverde, Joaquím Rodríguez, Cunego, Samuel Sánchez and Rui Costa; it's also the biggest ever one day race won by Carlos Sastre. The race has become increasingly provincial with the decline of the Spanish national calendar; unlike the GP Miguel Indurain, post-dating País Vasco means most of the World Tour teams clear off to prepare for the Ardennes which has hurt the field. The most recent winner is Giovanni Visconti, his second win in five years in the race.

The town is also known to cycling fans as the hometown of one of the more nationalistic Basques in the bunch, Team Sky's Beñat Intxausti (yes, that pic is from 2013, but I picked it for a reason); Beñat refused to wave the Spanish national flag when he won that stage (also, today is the anniversary of Tondó's death, which Beñat honoured the same day, since his teammate literally died in his arms) and how he has managed to coexist on a team with José Joaquín Rojas for several years is the source of much amazement.

From Amorebieta, we move onto Durango and... yes, this is the Basque country. Every town it seems has some kind of link to the history of cycling. Durango (and the smaller municipality of Iurreta that it has absorbed) is particularly notable in fact. Every year it is the centre of the biggest Spanish women's race of the year, the Emakumeen Bira, a four- or five-day counterpart to the Euskal Bizikleta that has served us some of the most important mountainous racing that the women get to do most years; this year's relatively benign race was won by Emma Johansson, although it was affected by the absence of Rabo-Liv, who had won several previous editions with Vos in 2011, PFP in 2014 and Niewiadoma in 2015. The winner's list includes the likes of Claudia Häusler (now Lichtenberg), Fabiana Luperini and Svetlana Bubnenkova, so you know we're talking mountains here, and pleasingly the coverage has improved to the extent that we got 90 minutes of live coverage on the last day. It also has a counterpart one-day race, the Durango-Durango Emakumeen Saria, won most recently by Megan Guarnier, and with its most successful riders being Vos (four wins) and Somarriba (three).

Durango is also the home of the greatest of the Spanish one-day climbing races, the mighty Subida a Urkiola. With a winners' list including Belda, Lejarreta, both Julio AND Chava Jiménez, Hampsten, Delgado, Rominger, Chiapucci, Piepoli and Mayo, you know this is an elite climbing race even if you didn't know that the race finished, as its name suggests, on the Urkiola, one of the most fabled and mighty of all Basque climbs, known as the great Cathedral of Basque cycling.

You can see the imposition of Mayo in 2006 here. The legendary climb is fairly infrequent in the Itzulia now, which I find to be a travesty; it's truly one of the great historic ascents of Spanish cycling; for that reason it was included in the Bilbao - Vitória-Gasteiz stage of the 2011 Vuelta as the final symbolic climb even though it was far from the line and unlikely to cause any differences in the GC; nevertheless, as a mark of the legendary nature of the climb, it was lined deep with fans throughout anyway. The point marked on the profile as Txakurzulo is the famous point where the riders take a right hand hairpin onto a nightmarish straight at 14%, where the fans all congregate to wave the ikurrina and scream encouragement.

At 60km from the line, this lopsided ascent will not be decisive, but it should rid us of some domestiques since there's no respite descent, just a gradual downhill into Otxandiano, home of Dalmacio Langarica, the winner of the 1946 Vuelta and a successful DS for KAS in the 70s. This then leads into a shorter climb to Krutzeta before we descend into Arrasate, known to Castilians as Mondragón and the home of the eponymous worker collective, the largest such cooperative in the world.

In the last 50km, however, we start to move towards the design of that 2012 stage, as we continue on for a little before taking on the second category Alto de Intxorta, or Alto de Asentzio, a gradually steepening little climb around Elgeta that is not to be underestimated thanks to that final 3,4km which are noticeably steeper than the first half of the climb. Cresting at 31km from the line it will really depend on riders' moods whether anybody wants to take risks, but I don't anticipate primary contenders going here, instead they will follow as the route does a little loop-de-loop back to Arrasate and then heads eastward towards Oñati.

Oñati is a frustratingly comparatively difficult-to-access town in Gipuzkoa which is nevertheless one of the jewels in Euskal Herria and popular with tourists, because of its splendid preserved medieval centre, its beautiful historic university buildings (such as that above) and its peaceful surroundings within a secluded valley. It is also the hometown of Markel Irizar, the ex-Euskaltel rider who overcame testicular cancer and became a founding member of the Radioshack team, and former Euskaltel rider and DS Jon Odriozola. It hosted the Itzulia most recently in 2012 as per the above, with an uncategorized late climb giving the race a bit more urgency. I have replicated that finish including the Alto de Garagaltza - no profile, but PRC estimate 900m at 11% - in order to put a few domestiques already onto the back foot when we start the final ascent to the Santuário de Arantzazu, a historic monument rebuilt in 1950 in a more modern style with input from famous Basque sculptors Eduardo Chillida and Jorge Oteiza.

The interesting thing for the race is that the climb isn't particularly hard; like Arrate I can't see huge gaps being produced. Realistically, the only hard part is the first 2,8km which are at around 9%; after that it flattens out briefly, gives a bit of false flat, then ramps up to a final 3km at around 6%. This is why Garagaltza is needed to put domestiques on the back foot. They can get back on, but riders who want to be aggressive will have to do so from the bottom to prevent those domestiques riding back on while they're making it easy going in the first part of the climb, and then not being able to drop them on the easier second half.

There's always the possibility of a sprint of the elites here, but then that's not that different from the 2011 Itzulia, and besides there's no Arrate MTF this year, but plenty of opportunity to create gaps. You can open up gaps here if you work for it, or it can thin the field down for the later stages. It's still open to many here and this should be an interesting stage as a result.

 

[52520Andrew]

Re: Re:

College is done for the semester so I am going to start pumping out Tour of California stages here soon. Will post a recap of the first 2 stages when I do so as it has been quite a while.

Been busy with other potential projects as well including a couple stages in the Death Valley Las Vegas area, a New England stage race, and a Giro is taking shape in the distance.

Good to hear, those American stage races should be interesting.
Recently I've tried to design a sage race in Nevada that starts around Las Vegas and ends near Carson City (about 5 stages), but the biggest problems is finding towns that are big enough to host a (transitional) stage, many stages are just ghosttowns, so you're almost forced to make very long sprint stages and you also have to deal with long transfers.

I will be curious to see how you are able to get things connected. I have hit the same problem with the Death Valley Race, the death valley is just too isolated of an area to support a multi stage race in real life which is a shame because there is some interesting terrain in the area. I think the best shot at seeing something stick in the area would be in the Las Vegas or Phoenix area in the early spring, maybe something like the Tour Down Under where it just stems from one of those places and if it gains enough popularity, maybe it can branch out.

 

[May0maniac]

Re: Re:

College is done for the semester so I am going to start pumping out Tour of California stages here soon. Will post a recap of the first 2 stages when I do so as it has been quite a while.

Been busy with other potential projects as well including a couple stages in the Death Valley Las Vegas area, a New England stage race, and a Giro is taking shape in the distance.

Good to hear, those American stage races should be interesting.
Recently I've tried to design a sage race in Nevada that starts around Las Vegas and ends near Carson City (about 5 stages), but the biggest problems is finding towns that are big enough to host a (transitional) stage, many stages are just ghosttowns, so you're almost forced to make very long sprint stages and you also have to deal with long transfers.

I will be curious to see how you are able to get things connected. I have hit the same problem with the Death Valley Race, the death valley is just too isolated of an area to support a multi stage race in real life which is a shame because there is some interesting terrain in the area. I think the best shot at seeing something stick in the area would be in the Las Vegas or Phoenix area in the early spring, maybe something like the Tour Down Under where it just stems from one of those places and if it gains enough popularity, maybe it can branch out.

Yeah, I thought that another option would be to start in Elko with a mid length ITT, 2 rather long sprint stages and then having the final 2 mountain stages around Carson City, Washoe and Lyon County, that would probably be easier than starting in the Las Vegas area and you have a few towns that could host a stage finish.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Stage 3: Oñati - Eibar, 144km

GPM:
Alto de La Deskarga (cat.3) 6,4km @ 5,1%
Alto de Aztiria (cat.3) 2,9km @ 6,0%
Puerto de Mandubia (cat.2) 6,1km @ 5,9%
Alto de Santa Ageda (cat.1) 8,6km @ 6,5%
Alto de Etumeta (cat.2) 4,7km @ 7,3%
Alto de Endoia (cat.2) 5,8km @ 6,3%
Alto de Azurki (cat.2) 5,7km @ 7,6%
Alto de Usartza-Arrate (cat.1) 5,0km @ 9,6%

What we have here is, in under 150km, the queen stage of the Vuelta al País Vasco. This is going to be a really brutal battle, with eight climbs crammed into its short distance. It also enables us to use the historic and traditional Arrate climb without the mountaintop finish, which we have got more than used to now; this will enable us to have a bit more variety whilst still keeping the traditions of the race following the link to the Euskal Bizikleta, the successor to the Bicicleta Eibarresa.

There is essentially no transfer today, as we're starting in Oñati, at the base of yesterday's mountaintop finish. It's, as mentioned before, a beautiful and historic town. Our first port of call is to exit its valley, however, in much the same way as we entered it yesterday, via the village of Santxolopeztegi. This time we turn south, and then shortly afterwards turn eastward to go back on ourselves as we wind our way around western Gipuzkoa to our first climb of the day, the Alto de La Deskarga. It's a climb of two halves, the first 4km being essentially false flat and the last 2,5km being at around 8,5%. The descent from this climb takes us into the city of Zumarraga, which has hosted the Itzulia twice recently with stages built around its steep, punchy Alto de La Antigua. Both stages were won by Joaquím Rodríguez from a small group, in 2011 ahead of Samu, Andreas Klöden and defending champion Chris Horner, and in 2015 ahead of the Colombian duo of Sergio Henao and Nairo Quintana. This is a far cry from the terrain of Zumarraga's most famous cycling son; while the city is most famous as the birthplace of conquistador Miguel López de Legazpi, its cycling heritage comes in the form of the AITORMINATOR©, the fearsome time triallist who stole the Vuelta at the last minute in 2002. The AITORMINATOR© - not to be confused with The Other Aitor González, who rides for Murias - is something of a controversial figure owing to his post-career involvement in drugs and robberies, but still has his fans owing to his take-no-prisoners style.

From Zumarraga, we head through Legazpi to the easiest climb of the day, the short and uncomplicated Aztiria from its easier side, and then a descent into the scenic village of Zerain.

From here, however, the climbs will start to get more serious. We pass towards Beasain, which hosted an important stage in the 2013 Vuelta al País Vasco won by Richie Porte, to the village of Salbatore. This lies between Ormaiztegi - the home of the Izagirre brothers, Gorka and Ion, who were among the prize attractions in the Euskaltel auction when the team collapsed - and Beasain, which has absorbed the neighbouring parish of Lazkao, which is the home of another great Basque hero, and a man who sadly never won a GT but certainly belongs higher than many of his contemporaries who did in the annals of racing history, and is still a popular figure today, Joseba Beloki. We take on a favoured training climb of Joseba's, the fairly consistent Puerto de Mandubia, which is a nice cat.2 climb of essentially 6km at a rigid 6%, a remarkably rhythmic climb unlike many in the region. The descent into Nuarbe is similarly benign and takes us to the foot of a much more serious proposition, the Alto de Santa Ageda.

The climb to Santa Ageda is one of the most established in the Basque Country, at over 8km in length at 6-7%. It's nicely drawn out and would make a more than solid cat.2 in a Grand Tour.

Here, however, it essentially serves as the halfway point in the stage, with a two-stepped descent then leading us on to yet another short ascent, the Alto de Etumeta. Again, not too many monster ramps, but 4,5km at over 7% is nothing to be sniffed at, and should be felt as the day wears on. The descent takes us gradually downhill into the town of Zestoa, birthplace of the Osa brothers, Aitor and Unai, who were such a feature of Spanish cycling in the late 90s and early 2000s, with Aitor managing a Vuelta GPM victory in 2003 and his younger brother stepping onto the podium of the Giro in 2001. Following Puerto- and injury-related retirements in 2006 the two have been sometime collaborators with ETB on their TV coverage of cycling.

Away from rider retrospectives, however, this is where the stage will get really serious, because we have one of the best double-climbs in Euskal Herria to come, as after the sprint in Zestoa with 41km remaining, we start this:

This two-stepped killer is broken into two climbs, neither of which truly reveal their horror from the stats alone. Endoia being 5,8km @ 6,3% is such a misnomer because of that flat and second kick-up, a bit like a much more monstrous San Jerónimo or a half-size Lagos de Covadonga. The first 2,5km of this average a savage 11% and include ramps of up to 19%; with precious little respite left I want to see leaders isolated from here on in, even if the second half of the climb around the village is just false flat.

But after the summit of Endoia and the brief descent, it doesn't get easier. The second climb, up to the summit of the Alto de Azurki, with 3km @ 9,6% and once more gradients of up to 19% right slap bang in the middle. A steepest kilometre at 11,2%, and the summit cresting just 27km from home, and you could see some riders tempted to go it alone here, or certainly the group will be small in number despite the short distance - in fact perhaps because of the short distance as it might increase the pace.

A fairly long and smooth descent takes us to the second intermediate sprint in the town of Elgoibar, a town only a few kilometres over from Eibar which last saw the Itzulia in 2013 for a first stage which came over the climb of San Miguel and was won from the reduced sprint by Simon Gerrans. I won't link to highlights - do you really expect there to be any actual highlights to a race won by Gerrans? - but Elgoibar nevertheless features as a transit town near enough every year because of the traditional design of the Arrate stage, going over Ixua to Markina-Xemein, then over the easier climb of San Miguel to Elgoibar before heading back to Eibar and climbing all the way to Arrate, like this. Obviously we have arrived in Elgoibar via a much more challenging and interesting route, so the group ready to contest Arrate should be reduced, but also, thanks to the wonders of the 2016 Itzulia, we don't have to have our Arrate stage with a mountaintop finish anymore... so we won't. Instead, the final 15km of the stage are a replica of all but the very start in Eibar itself of the brutally difficult time trial in this year's edition which was won by Alberto Contador shortly ahead of Nairo Quintana; it was one of the hardest TTs ever in País Vasco, which given the history of tough climbing and technical tests with the addition of rain (think of the 2010 Orio TT, 2012 in Oñati, 2015 on the Alto de Aia) is quite something. It also gave us a new and brutal side of this traditional climb to visit, so really, let's see how it takes road racing.

Of course, we're all familiar with the beautiful climb that is Arrate from Eibar and its beautiful scenery into the valley below (of course, Ibar is a Basque word for valley, and Eibar's location deep within one suggests regional variation), but here we will be descending the traditional side of the climb to the finish; this is clearly safe for road descents as well as the time trials as it was descended as part of the loop around Markina-Xemein in the 2014 stage won by Ben Swift as well as stage 1 of this year's race on an identical finale, won by Luís León Sánchez. Here, however, there's no Aiastia/San Miguel, so it's just a frantic descent into the finishing line in the city of Eibar where they come past the famous Astelena Frontón, one of the most traditional venues in pelota vasca, and finish in the city square. This will be a potentially killer stage, short but extremely savage.

 

[railxmig]

Re:

railxmig, the level of detail is incredible on even the flatter stages here, but you need to mention that Łódź is film director David Lynch's favourite city for additional bonus points

So i'll give you additional bonus points if you'll answer me how i was supposed to know that . Sadly or not i'm not a Lynch specialist. The level of detail is thanks to an excellent coverage Poland has on wikimapia. I dunno how good of a job does Google Translate so there may be some slip offs.

Hey,

I am new to the forum, but have followed this thread for about a year now and want to join in. I have managed to design a race that I want to share. The only problem is that it is a Tour de Pologne, and we already have one of them going . Also, the thread seems busy at the minute, as railxmig claimed. Thus, I will wait until next week to post.

I'm worried that since this thread became sticky it's almost allways busy. You need to either have luck or work on patterns to find some space so you won't be left unnoticed. It's quite important especially if it's your first race. Otherwise you'll be eaten alive by Libertine with yet another Basque race or Vuelta. If you, Libertine, won't make your Tour de France public in next 2 months then i'll find you and... show your true identity . Or force you to have a dinner with Peter Sagan .

Ok, now let's stop joking and get to Tour de Pologne. @mikii4567, i should end my race tomorrow.

DISCLAIMER: BECAUSE ORIGINALLY THIS POST WOULD BE JUST TOO LONG (ALMOST 6000 WORDS) I'VE DECIDED TO POST JUST AN EXCERPT OF IT LEAVING ONLY CYCLING RELATED INFORMATION WHILE CUTING OFF GEOGRAPHICAL AND HISTORICAL PORTIONS. STILL THIS POST IS OVER 3500 WORDS LONG SO SORRY IN ADVANCE FOR IT'S LENGTH.

SPECIAL DISCLAIMER TO LIBERTINE: I have no clue who lives where or with who, who likes what or who trains where so don't expect any of such informations in this post. I only know that in one of the villages (called Dubiecko) a polish poet Ignacy Krasicki was born. Don't take this disclaimer seriously, i really don't know anything about these subjects and i don't even know where to find such informations. I limit myself only to design, historical and geographical informations as those are relatively easy to find.

I have a nasty suprise for today and it's not the length of this post which of course balooned under my apparently weak supervise. This suprise is a hill which is just slightly easier than Huy but its surface is where its strength lies. It'll be procedeed by propably even harder next stage before the last TT to Kraków.

Tour de Pologne - library: link.

Tour de Pologne – stage 5. Sandomierz - Przemyśl-Zniesienie, 211km, ~900m asc, hilly

Start: Sandomierz, Rynek, Starówka
Km 0: Sandomierz, Lwowska, 4,9km from the start
Start - km0: Rynek - Generała Michała Sokolnickiego - Browarna - Zawichojska - Żwirki i Wigury - Lwowska
Finish: Przemyśl, Przemysława, Zniesienie
Sprint 1: Tarnobrzeg, Generała Władysława Sikorskiego, 450m straight [11km]
Sprint 2: Mielec, Henryka Sienkiewicza, 1,3km straight [51,5km]
Feed zone: Trzeboś, 881 [110km]

Climbs:
Husów - 2,9km, 5,6% (max 9%), 2 Cat. 414m
Jawornik Polski - 1,5km, 7,2% (max 13%), 2 Cat. 354m
Szklary - 1,2km, 6,6% (max 11%), 3 Cat. 371m
Babicka Góra - 1,1km, 4,7%, 3 Cat. 317m
Reczpol - 1,5km, 8,3% (max 11%), 1 Cat. 342m
Przemyśl-Zasanie - 1,4km, 3,7%, 3 Cat. 278m
Przemyśl-Zniesienie - 1,5km, 9,1% (max 14%), 1 Cat. 341m

Panorama of Sandomierz.

Sandomierz is colorfuly located on a cliff on the left bank of Vistula river. Most of the streets in the historical centre are cobbled and likes to go uphill. You know what it means – there are some possibilities to use these circumstances to the advantage. Propably the creaziest one is to incorporate a small stone wall just east of the castle which reaches the intersection of Zamkowa, Mariacka and Staromiejska street just under the castle. It's just 100m long but considering very rough stone surface and 10% slopes it can be very painful 100m.

Narrow 100m stone road in Sandomierz.

Combine this with other cobbled streets and some available space in the Main Square opposite of the city's hall. It can be reached either via Mariacka street and then across the Main Square or via Zamkowa street. Choosing Mariacka street will result in first 200-250m in steep around 10% uphill to then flatten out for next roughly 200m to then steepen out for the last 100m in the Main Square. Overall it's 600km at 6,7% but with first 300m at around 10%. Choosing Zamkowa street results in much more regular profile without flats and steep stuff. It's roughly 50m shorter while overally steeper – 550m at 8%. The surface of both streets is similar on city cobbles which do look quite rough.

Cobbles on Mariacka street in Sandomierz.

While the mentioned 100m stone road is most propably out of contention to any cycling race the Mariacka and Zamkowa streets with eventual finish in the Main Square maybe could be possible. There is an alternative to that 100m road as the main road (extension of Zamkowa street) is just left of it and goes around the castle on like a pseudo serpentine. It's of course longer, shallower and on much better cobbles but it is a much more realistic option than the road i presented. Overall taking whole Zamkowa to the Main Square would be 700m at 6% without any steep stuff while taking Mariacka would result in 750m at 5,5% with the 200m long around 10% dip at the entrance of Mariacka i metioned before. Of course these ascents are entirely cobbled.

From upper left to bottom right: Zamkowa + Mariacka, Zamkowa, 100m stone road + Zamowa, 100m stone road + Mariacka.

There are much more roads to reach the Main Square. From east there's Browarna street which is 450m long at 8,2%. Of course it's cobbled. These cobbles seem to be of similar quality like those on Mariacka street. From north there isn't anything particulary interesing as the roads are mostly asphalted and there's no cliff, only shallow rise to the historical centre. From east it's shallowy like from north but there is a longish Staromiejska street which is 600m and is interstingly mostly downhill at roughly 5%. It reaches the intersection of Zamkowa, Mariacka and that 100m stone road i mentioned before so it can be combined with either Zamkowa or Mariacka. Surface is of course cobbled. They seem to be a bit better quality than on Browarna street.

As you can see Sandomierz can be a good cycling ground. Sadly there's not much in the region besides Sandomierz as most of the roads aviods any bigger percentages going through valleys and ravines if they need. It means that there will be no action beside last 1km but i wonder if a tough prologue/TT is possible.

I guess after a lengthy introduction it's time for today's stage. It will start on the Main Square (either left or right side of it) in the shadows of the city hall. Then riders will go through Generała Michała Sokolnickiego, (short extension of) Browarna, Zawichojska, Żwirki i Wigury (national route 77) and Lwowska (route 723) where km 0 is located 4,9km from the start.

Remainings of a royal castle in Sandomierz.

Riders will continue on route 723 on the east bank of Vistula where after 10km they'll reach Tarnobrzeg where the first sprint of the day will be held. The sprint will be held on Generała Władysława Sikorskiego street after 450m straight line, 11km from the start. Because this sprint is only 10km after km 0 and there are 10s at stake the breakaway may have problems to get away before this sprint.

Castle in Dzików, part of Tarnobrzeg.

Roughly 40km after Tarnobrzeg is a rather big city of Mielec where the second sprint of the day is located. It's on Henryka Sienkiewicza street after 1,3km straight line, 51,5km from the start. Mielec is mostly an industrial city which begun it's rise during the interwar period thanks to being in the middle of projected Central Industrial Region where a plane factory was located. Riders then will head to Łańcut and then Carpathians.

Partly "overgrown" castle in Łańcut in the summer period.

The first categorised hill of the day is up to the village of Husów. I'm not sure if this hill isn't called Taterka but i prefered to stay with the name of the village. This hill is 2,9km at 5,6% (max 9%) and it's a cat. 2 hill. It's kind of irregular hill with stretches of 7-8% followed by false flats. Harderst part is in the middle with a whole km at 7,5%. The road riders will take is from nearby Albigowa village through Handzlówka village. Road to Albigowa is two-lane on average surface, from Albigowa to the summit is narrower, like 1,3-lane wide. Descent from this hill to Hadle Szklarskie is relatively shallow with only a small portion of 6-7% slope but it's still on the same narrowish road with two bigger bends and lots of small curves.

Profile of Husów hill.

In Hadle Szklarskie riders will turn right into Jawornik Polski. This road linking Hadle Szklarskie with Jawornik Polski hides a short but nasty suprise. It's the second categorised hill of the day. It's labeled as Jawornik Polski, a 1,5km at 7,2% (max 13%) and it's cat. 2. First 500m are at roughly 9% with max slope of 13%. Next 1km gets easier towards the false-flat top. Descent to Jawornik Polski is rather easy with only one visible bend. In Jawornik Polski riders will turn right into a wider, 2-lane route 835 where another hill awaits.

Profile of Jawornik Polski hill.

Leaving Jawornik Polski through route 835 into nearby village of Szklary riders will encounter another categorised hill of the day. It's labeled as Szklary (it looks like a col but i couldn't find any name of it) and it's 1,2km at 6,6% (max 11%) and it's a cat. 3 hill. The profile below adds basically false flat 0,5km which i didn't count. This hill begins quite shallow at 4-5% but gets progressively steeper with small parts up to 11% close to the top. Descent to Szklary is short and quite easy with basically only one serpentine and one small bend.

Profile of Szklary hill.

Next hill is called Babicka Góra (326m a.s.l.). The road goes close to the summit of it up to 317m a.s.l. I for long time wasn't sure if this hill needs categorisation as it's only like 1,1km at 4,7% but decided to go with cat. 3 to ensure that there will be more cat. 3 hills than cat. 2 in Tour de Pologne. For riders this hill will be just a small interruption in pace and to remember how to climb as last 25km were practically flat and next kms will be difficult.

Why those next kms will be difficult? Road soon turns inland leaving San river for a short while. This detour of course results in some climbing, and this climbing will be quite tough. This hill is called Reczpol after a small village on top of it. It's 1,5km at 8,3% (max 11%) which is a lot. It's first TdP hill which has an average of 8% and more. It's a borderline cat. 1/2 hill. I decided to go with cat. 1 so this hill is officially the first cat. 1 of my Tour de Pologne. In the profile below there are additional 500m on top which are a false-flat and i decided to omit them.

Profile of Reczpol hill.

On top of this hill there are roughly 3km of false-flat before a quite steep descent back to San valley. This descent is roughly 2km long at around 6-6,5% with a small part in the middle at around 11%. This descent is rather easy, on a wide, 2-lane road and only like a one or two small turns. From the bottom of descent there are like 10km left to Przemyśl which are mostly flat in the San valley.

As riders will enter Przemyśl they'll almost immediately leave route 884 by turning left into a bit worser but still two-lane road (Marcina Bielskiego street) which goes uphill with three serpentines. This road up to the city's district – Zasanie is only 1,4km at 3,7% which barely makes it a cat. 3 hill. It's not the hardest hill in the world by any stretch but placement very close to the bottom of the last hill (1km between end of the descent and foot of the last hill), presence of serpentines (quite rare occurence in Poland) and very straight but steep (up to 10%) descent makes it a quite difficult part of the stage. Placement on this hill will be everything so on the run-in and on the hill pace will most propably be frantic. I doubt there'll be any selection on it, it's too easy in my opinion.

Castle in Przemyśl.

After the descent through straight, two-lane Biskupa Jakuba Glazera street there is roughly a km left to the foot of the last hill. This is a very important 1km with 4 turns. First two just after the descent on Grunwaldzka street (right-left chicane), then 250m later right into a bridge, after bridge (300m) right in three-lane Jagiellońska street and then a left turn 200m later to enter the last climb.

This last climb known as Zniesienie is difficult. It's parameters are similar to Mur de Huy but it's the surface that's the biggest problem here. This hill is 1,5km at 9,1% with max at 14% and it's a cat. 1 hill. Maybe it doesn't have over 20% patches but these over 10% ones are mostly on a surface different to regular asphalt. It's worth to mention that 200m of this hill are flat, so the rest of it is propably close to 10% or above. Last 1km is at stable 11%.

Profile of last 1km of Zniesienie hill.

This hill can be separated into three parts based on the type of surface. First 500m long part is on cobbles. Those seems to be mainstream city cobbles but there are some small, more uneven patches which can throw off riders. This part goes through Walerego Waygarta street – Grodzka – south-west part of Rynek (Main Square) – Aleksandra Fredry and Plac Katedralny (Cathedral Square).

Surface at the bottom of Zniesienie.

I know that riders and TV won't have any time to admire the surroundings but if it would be just another hill like 30-50km from the finish what kind of surroundings they would see? On the Main Square there are a couple of mansions from XVII c., modernised in XIX c. On Aleksandra Fredry is St. Maria Magdalena Church with an adjacent Franciscan monastery from XVIII c. On Plac Katedralny (Cathedral Square) is a basilica from XVI c.

Basilica in Przemyśl seen from east, riders will go alognside the cobbled road.

If they would not turn left on Cathedral Square but keep straight then after 150m they would reach a castle in Przemyśl. If they would turn left, not right at the entrance of Cathedral Square then they would reach this monstrocity below at the Carmelites Monastery yard.

Surface close to Carmelites Monastery.

Of course this surface could be even comparable with the Arenberg one and these easier patches on the side of road are an illusion. They're verry narrow (one bike wide) and there are three tight serpentines so keeping this line would be difficult for any riders besides like leading 5.

Second 500m long part of this hill is actually asphalted but it's in a varied state. First 200m on Kapitulna street are on a fine surface and considering the rest of this hill it will be a relief to a lot of these riders. On Kapitulna riders will pass close to yet another monastery of Carmelite sisters from XIX c. After Kapitulna riders turn right into Tatarska street which leads to the top of this hill. The asphalt on Tatarska is in a worser condition than on Kapitulna so riders should look out for bumps and patches in surface.

Surface in the middle of Zniesienie.

After like 300m on Tatarska street the surface chances yet another time. It's the third, last part of this hill which is 500m long and it's on a plattenwagen. A very bad plattenwagen with lots of asphalt/concrete like patches and gravel. This surface lasts for next 300m. Riders are now leaving the downtown of Przemyśl and are going through uptown to the ski station on top of Zniesienie. The percentages seems to up their game significantly from 8-9% to 12-14%.

Surface close to the top of Zniesienie.

After mentioned 300m the surface changes yet another time. This time into a mesh between the remains of asphalt and gravel/dirt. It's propably the hardest surface to ride on (kind of Tro-Bro Leonesque) and the percentages are the highest ones reaching 14% but i suspect that some of these patches may reach like 17%. Those roughly 200m are most propably the hardest one on this hill. Propability of flat tires is big but considering theres less than 300m to the finish it shouldn't be the biggest problem. Just run with your bike to the finish like in the old days .

Toughest section at the top of Zniesienie.

At the top of Zniesienie there's a left turn into Przemysława street and like 50m to the finish line on the best surface of last 1,5km. Finish line will be drawn on Przemysława street where is a small parking for the finish installations just after the TV/Radio tower and before Cross of Trust. There's a small parking just after Cross of Trust for the most important motos while cars and/or buses could propably gather down in the city on Plac Rybi (Fish Square) and/or maybe somewhere else like a sports centre on Sanocka, west of Zniesienie.

Finish line on top of Zniesienie.

I have no clue what kind of differences there'll be. Propably they will be small but propably there will be no bigger groups than 2-3 which will be significant to GC. On top of that bonifications at the finish line will play an important part too. I'm not sure how big of a role will sudden changes in surface have but the last part can result in some tyres flat. A guy like Tony Martin who after TT and stage two could be a leader (if he will take part in Tour de Pologne which he actually may do, with such parcours) but most propably will lose a chunk of time on such percentages (20-30sec) to guys like Kwiatkowski (definitely a GC contender considering the parcours) or whichever north classics specialist who won't attend Eneco Tour. I'm not sure if this hill isn't too hard for Sagan. Maybe even somebody like Geniez will fare well, he won Tro-Bro last year so he knows how to ride on difficult terrain while having good enough punch to compete on such hill. But considering next three stages and propable GC up to this stage i would put my money on Kwiatkowski.

By the way, Zniesienie can be used as a pass. Przemysława street is another side of this hill. There are quite a chunk of roads south of it too, but they lead to nowhere. The side from Przemysława (east side) is much more regular – 2,2km at 5% (max 11%). First 1,2km are on cobbless similar to those at the foot of the side i've took while last 1km are on a fine asphalt. What's interesting is that this road at the bottom does go through a cemetery splitting it half. Actually this side i think would be perfectly available for Tour de Pologne so i won't be shocked if some day in the future i will see a hilltop finish in Przemyśl.

If Tour de Pologne would be ever interested in Zniesienie then i wonder if they would have access to Winna Góra (Vine Hill) as it's a better run-in/interruption before Zniesienie than used here Zasanie. It's 1,5km at 5% but first 400m are steep with a moment at 14%. I would have no problem of tackling it, i would then put the stage north of Pogórze Dynowskie but very heavy traffic route 77 could be an obstacle here. I prefer to not close down route 77, seems to be inportant which is understandable as we're now very close to the Polish-Ukrainian border (only a couple of kms east of Przemyśl). There is however an alternative road via Buszkowice which does intersect with route 77 only once but then i would be forced to go through what seems heavily used very important rail tracks which is understandable considering the closeness of the border. That's why i decided to approach Przemyśl from west via route 884 to not encounter these mentioned above problems. I'm not going with realism here but i still try to be as convenient as i can only be and considering my work with Kielce my designs are still clunky as hell.

I planned to use Krosno as the finish for this stage but i discovered that mentioned on the last stage Łysa Góra (Bald Mountain) in Świętokrzyskie range is most propably out of my reach so leaving Tour de Pologne without a hilltop finish would be kind of against my plan. Thankfully i had an alternative waiting in Przemyśl which i managed to use. If Bald Mountain would be accesible to race then a combination of HTF on it plus a hilly finish in Krosno would be quite realistic.

Krosno likes to host Wyścig Solidarności i Olimpijczyków (sadly i couldn't find any profile but time schedule should be fine enough) which goes through couple of laps with a hill up to Kamieniec castle north of Krosno. While it likes to end in the Krosno's Main Square i would (because TdP is much bigger than this race) change it to Bursaki street opposite of Hala Sportowo-Widowiskowa (Sports Arena) after 550m straight line. Such stage from Sandomierz to Krosno would be 188km long with 5/6 cat. 2 or 3 hills with last one of Kamieniec castle like 13 kms from the finish. Some of these hills are quite nasty like Brzeżanka with max 16% slope or Zamek Kamieniec with max 14% slope. I think such stage would be better than abysmal Nowy Sącz ones (i will come back to this city in near future) but still a sprint of 30-50 man group. Maybe even a guy like Sagan would contest in sprint. This is how such stage (partly labeled) would look like:

Laps in Krosno.

Thankfuly there's no realism involved in my goals related to this Tour de Pologne so i can present you some atrocities i would never went with otherwise. This, or similar hill will never see any cycling race, not to mention Tour de Pologne which is quite conservative with it's choice of roads. But i guess it's fine enough to be included in fantasy cycling. But even then i think Stóg Izerski, Przehyba, Laskowa and Kocierz Moszczanicki (28% max) are better hills to combine with.

On the last stage i will limit myself only to the climbs so there won't be any >5500 words post.

BTW:

Your message contains too many smilies. The maximum number of smilies allowed is 5.

What the hell!?

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Don't worry railxmig, my (somewhat experimental and unusual) Tour de France will be up after I'm done with País Vasco.

I did finish a Tour de Pologne which is very much the opposite of the old one - in fact the first stage finished in Przemyśł but because it was stage one I used Zasanie but not Zniesienie, then moved west before north. Sandomierz is a city I've often tried to use as well when looking at options for the Tour de Pologne. However, with you in the middle of yours plus mikii4567's to come, it's a good time to delay on that - and do Le Tour instead.

 

[mikii4567]

Re:

Don't worry railxmig, my (somewhat experimental and unusual) Tour de France will be up after I'm done with País Vasco.

I did finish a Tour de Pologne which is very much the opposite of the old one - in fact the first stage finished in Przemyśł but because it was stage one I used Zasanie but not Zniesienie, then moved west before north. Sandomierz is a city I've often tried to use as well when looking at options for the Tour de Pologne. However, with you in the middle of yours plus mikii4567's to come, it's a good time to delay on that - and do Le Tour instead.

In a minute we'll find the Tour de Pologne is the most popular race designed . But more seriously, my race is different to railxmig's, it focuses more on climbing rather than short, cobbled climbs (not saying that's a bad choice - Poland features a few of these )

 

[Gigs_98]

Giro d' Italia stage 3: Eisenstadt - Graz (178 km)

The first sprint stage of my giro but just like I usually prefer it, it's not pan flat and if ridden fast enough it could even cause problems for the likes of Kittel, although I don't see any sprinter dropping on a day like this, but who knows.

After the first stage started in front of the castle Schönbrunn in Vienna, this stage starts in front of the castle Esterhazy, where the famous composer Joseph Haydn worked. The only two categorized climbs of the stage are the Semmering and the Alpl, both 3rd category. While the Semmering is only long but very flat, the quite steep Alpl might hurt some sprinters, but it's still far away from the finish so even if a sprinter drops he should easily be able to come back.

Semmering:

However at about 40 kilometers to go the road starts to go up and down all the time, and although there isnt one single big climb left, there are also hardly any flat parts until the last 15 kilometers which are very easy again.
The finish is in Graz and the finish will be in front of the Opera. Not the most famous square of the city, but in my Österreich Rundfahrt I got criticized because I finished on the Hauptplatz, where all the tramways of the city go through, so this time I used a logistically more realistic finish.

Graz most famous sight is the beautiful clock tower on the Schloßberg and generally this is a big and beautiful city, so it would definitely deserve to host a stage in the Giro.

 

[railxmig]

Re:

Don't worry railxmig, my (somewhat experimental and unusual) Tour de France will be up after I'm done with País Vasco.

I did finish a Tour de Pologne which is very much the opposite of the old one - in fact the first stage finished in Przemyśł but because it was stage one I used Zasanie but not Zniesienie, then moved west before north. Sandomierz is a city I've often tried to use as well when looking at options for the Tour de Pologne. However, with you in the middle of yours plus mikii4567's to come, it's a good time to delay on that - and do Le Tour instead.

There's actually some space almost on the top of Zasanie if you use the east side which is quite steep but i was wondering if for stage 1 the east side of Zniesienie (Przemysława street) wouldn't be slightly better but maybe the cobbled parts are too much to handle. Today i did move west from Przemyśl too so i hope this stage won't interfere with yours or mikii4567's.

Ok, i guess i will end my Tour de Pologne. This time i'm not going to write about surrounding places because the terrain i'm tacling today is very rich in hills and climbs. Most of this stage doesn't look bad on paper and maybe even could be possible to have such or similar route in the real Tour de Pologne but the run-in in Nowy Sącz is rather controversial to which i will adress later in this post.

Like in my last post i decided to not include any geographical and historical bits so to keep the length of this post short (for my standards ofc).

Tour de Pologne - library: link.

Tour de Pologne - stage 6. Sanok - Nowy Sącz, 213km, ~1700m asc, hilly

Start: Sanok, Mickiewicza, Dom Turysty PTTK
Km 0: Sanok, Lipińskiego, 3km from the start
Start – km 0: Mickiewicza - Kościuszki - Jagiellońska - Lipińskiego
Finish: Nowy Sącz, Pułkownika Władysława Beliny-Prażmowskiego, 380m straight
Sprint 1: Nowy Żmigród, Dukielska, 3,3km straight, slightly uphill
Sprint 2: Grybów, Tadeusza Kościuszki, 270m straight
Feed zone: Pielgrzymka, Kłopotnica, Route 993

Climbs:
Brzozowiec - 4,6km, 5,1% (max 13%), 1 Cat. 613m
Chyrowa - 1,5km, 4%, 3 Cat. 508m
Magura Małastowska - 4,3km, 4,8% (max 10%), 2 Cat. 608m
Czarna - 2,4km, 6,8% (max 15%), 1 Cat. 585m
Wawrzka - 3km, 5,3%, 2 Cat. 546m
Liszkowa - 2,7km, 5,2%, 2 Cat. 488m
Waniówka - 6,1km, 3%, 3 Cat. 514m
Góry Jamnickie - 2km, 9% (max 22%), 1 Cat. 504m
Nowy Sącz-Chruślice - 1,1km, 10,2%, 1 Cat. 417m

As you can see from the profile this stage is serious. It shouldn't generate as big of time gaps as stage 2 but it should guarantee individuals or groups of 3-5 men on the finish line. Sadly this stage is just before a 25km TT which i hope won't hinder the race. The breakaway should be rather strong as it's the best stage to hunt down KOM points and because of stage 2 there shouldn't be many GC contenders left which should result in lesser amount of teams willing to work. Fight for the stage win and/or GC should begin around 15km from the finish line when the ascent of Góry Jamnickie begins which is propably the hardest ascent in this edition of Tour de Pologne.

Stage begins in Sanok. It's a city lying between Bieszczady and Pogórze Bukowskie (Bukowskie Foothills). I had a dillema, where to begin exactly but ultimately decided to go with Mickiewicza street outside Dom Turysty PTTK (some sort of a tourist home, maybe a hotel?) and close to Stadion sportowy Wierchy which is propably a stadium of a local football (soccer) club. The placement of it should not interfere with Królowej Bony street which looks like a busy, important road. Other place i was thinking of was a parking near the royal castle. It lies on a cliff over San river. Riders will then go via Mickiewicza, Kościuszki, Jagiellońska and Lipińskiego to reach km 0 on Lipińskiego street 3km from the start.

Royal castle in Sanok from XIV c.

5kms after km 0 in the village of Zagórz riders will leave route 84 in favour of route 892 which 10km later will lead to the first climb of the day. This climb is known as Brzozowiec. It's 4,6km at 5,1%, max 13% and it's a cat. 1 hill. Top of this climb is officially the highest point in the race at 613m a.s.l. It's quite inconsistent with patches of bigger percentages followed by patches of false-flat. What can be distinguished are two plateaus between km 2 and 3 separated by a short 200m stretch of 10% then followed by a 1,2km long part at 7,8% where the max slope of 13% and another small let-off is located. This is one of those rare ascents in Poland which kind of could look like a very small mountain than just an ardenesque hill. It even has small serpentines on both sides.

Profile of Brzozowiec climb.

The 2-lane road up and down the climb doesn't seem to be in great condition but as for 2013 it looked like it was in the middle of renovation so propably now it's on a very new and smooth surface. The descent isn't difficult – i've counted only 5 serpentines (which for Poland it's quite an amount) and rest is mostly straights. Riders then will keep alongside route 892 for next 10km and when they'll reach the village of Komańcza they'll turn right into route 897. It's the point where Tour de Pologne changes it's direction from southeast to west. Komańcza is close to the Polish-Slovakian border and it's the southernmost point of this Tour de Pologne. It's still slightly north of Zakopane so it's not the most southernmost point of TdP ever.

After Komańcza for the next 5km road keeps a slightly uphill tendency at roughly 1-2%. When reaching a village of Czystogarb the rise is more significant clocking in 2km at 3,2% which technically could be a borderline cat. 3 but i decided to not categorise it as there will be a lot more points to give on this stage – there's no need to categorise every small bump. For the next roughly 35kms there won't be any bumps worth categorisation but it doesn't mean it's perfect flat. Riders stay on route 897 for next 30kms where in the village of Tylawa they'll use national route 19 (E371) for 1,5km before turning right into a smaller road to Lwla. It's on the route 897 between Czystogarb and Tylawa where riders will transit from Bieszczady into Beskid Niski (Short Beskid) where they'll stay for the rest of the stage. Most of route 897 is around 1,5 lane wide on average to rather poor quality surface. Route to Lwla is a narrower one – 1,2 lane but on a better surface.

Beskid Niski is one of the main parts of Beskidy Mountains and polish part of Carpathian range. It covers an area from route 19 (E371) Rzeszów – Košice to Nowy Sącz where it transits into Beskid Sądecki. For the rest of the stage riders will stay in Beskid Niski. Highest peak of Beskid Niski is Busov (1002m a.s.l.) on the Slovakian side, Lackowa (997m a.s.l.) on Polish side.

The mentioned before road to Lwla will pass through Mszana and Chyrowa villages and in between them there's the next climb of the day. I've called it after nearby village of Chyrowa and it's 1,5km at 4% and it's a cat. 3 hill. For a long time i didn't know if this and Czystogarb hills are worth of categorisation. I decided to promote Chyrowa and leave Czystogarb as the second one is slightly easier than the first one. Thankfully the descent is very straight as the road isn't very wide. From the bottom of descent in Chyrova village to Lwla is roughly 4km. In Lwla riders will turn left into wide, 2-lane route 993 to reach a small town of Nowy Żmigród after 9kms. Lwla is located just west of Dukla, one of the most important towns in Beskid Niski region.

A small waterfall close to Lwla village.

Most of the road from the top of Chyrowa hill to Nowy Żmigród is a false descend at 1-3% with maybe a couple of stretches close to 5-6%. It's just after Nowy Żmigród where is the lowest point of the stage at roughly 275m a.s.l. Nowy Żmigród is a small town located in the Wisłoka valley. Wisłoka is one of the bigger rivers in area, it's the right tributary of Vistula. There will be the first sprint of the day on Dukielska street after 3,3km straight. This sprint is on top of a small rise so the last roughly 0,8km are slightly uphill (1-3%). In Nowy Żmigród riders will turn left into Gorlice. 7km later there will be a feed zone in Kłopotnica, a small hamlet belonging to Pielgrzymka village after crossing Kłopotnica creek. Terrain here is mostly flat with only a couple of small rises.

Centre of Gorlice.

Riders won't reach Gorlice which is a a small city located in the Ropa valley (Ropa is a left tributary to Wisłoka river). They'll miss Gorlice by a couple of kms thanks to a rather wide (almost 2-lane) suburb road linking route 993 with route 977. Thanks to that there's no need to ride through downtown and national route 28. Route 977 goes in Sękówka valley (tributary of Ropa river) and has an uphill tendency. After like 10kms road turns inland and riders will begin Magura Małastowska hill. It's 4,3km at 4,8% (max 10%) and it's a cat. 2 hill. The top (608m a.s.l.) is just 5m below Brzozowiec hill.

Profile of Magura Małastowska hill.

Magura Małastowska is a rather consistent ascent which steepens towards the top with 1km at over 9%. The ascent and descent are on wide, practically 2-lane road on good surface. There are 4 serpentines uphill and 4 downhill. On top of Magura Małastowska there's a ski station which sports one of the longest ski runs in southeastern Poland. At the bottom of descent riders will turn right into a smaller road to Uście Gorlickie village through Zdynia valley (tributary of Ropa). The road is around 1,3 to 1,5-lane on average surface quality. It's mostly slightly downhill (0-2%). This stretch of road is 10km long. In Uście Gorlickie riders will go over Ropa river and then turn left into road to Czarna village and later route 981. This road is of similar qualities as the road to Uście Gorlickie.

The road for next 2km will go through Ropa valley to then turn inland to introduce the next climb of the day. This climb is Czarna and it's named after nearby Czarna village. It's 2,4km at 6,8% (max 15%) and it's a cat. 1 hill topping at 585m a.s.l. It has a hard middle section of 1km at 9,3% with max at 15%. Rest of this climb is not very steep at all besides maybe first 300m at 7%. The descent to Czarna village is on a bit worser surface than ascent but it's basically a straight road so it shouldn't create too much of a hustle.

Profile of Czarna hill.

Next 5km will be a slight downhill through Biała valley. Just before reaching route 981 riders will turn right into Wawrzka village on top of Wawrzka hill. This time it's 3km at 5,3% and it's a cat. 2 hill. Wawrzka belongs to a small range which tops at Chełm (alternative name – Chełm Grybowski) 780m a.s.l.

Chełm Grybowski hill close to Wawrzka.

On the top of Wawrzka there's no immediate descent as riders will go under the east slope of Chełm hill and then begin descending down to Ropa village over Ropa river. The road is quite wide, 1,5-lane on average surface quality. Descent isn't very difficult with only a couple of small turns on a bit better surface than the ascent. In Ropa riders will have two left turns to reach national route 28 for the first time. This road will lead them to the town of Grybów, 8km after Ropa.

Between Grybów and Ropa however another hill awaits. It's 2,7km at 5,2% and it's cat. 2 topping at 488m a.s.l. I wasn't sure how to name this hill as it looks like a col but i couldn't find the name of it. It lies kind of in between couple of villages and Grybów so i wasn't sure which settlement to choose to name after. I ultimately decided to name it Liszkowa (562m a.s.l.) after a hill north of the ascent.

Centre of Grybów.

In Grybów there will be the the second sprint of the day on Tadeusza Kościuszki street after 270m straight. After this sprint riders will go over Biała river and then turn left into Węgierska street. To 2012 it was mostly a cobbled street but sadly now it's asphalted. On Węgierska street there'll be a small but steep 300m ascent at roughly 9% (but max definitely over 10%). This small ascent is a part of the next categorised hill of the day. After this hill there'll be a small descend after which riders will turn right into Ptaszkowa. This Węgierska road is rather narrowish at around 1,2-lane but on a new surface which before was cobbled (they weren't hard but still more challenging than asphalt).

After the turn into Ptaszkowa the road widens to 1,5-lane and flattens for a bit to soon became a gradually more challenging ascent. The last 1km is the hardest at roughly 6%. Overall it's 6,1km at 3% and it's a cat. 3 hill topping at 514m a.s.l. On top of this hill there's a church and a small hamlet known as Waniówka which i've chosen as the name of this hill. Apparently for a long time in one of the churches in Ptaszkowa there was a sculpture which is assigned to Wit Stwosz which is one of the more known german sculptors of the gothic age. Now this sculpture is in a museum in Nowy Sącz.

Sculpture from Ptaszkowa.

The descent from this hill is mostly shallow and it basically lasts for next roughly 13km. Most of this descent is through Kamionka valley. Kamionka is a small tributary of Kamienica which flows through Nowy Sącz to reach Dunajec river. At the bottom of this descent riders turn right into a smaller road where propably the most interesting and important part of the stage begins.

This steep bastard is known as Góry Jamnickie. It's 2km at 9% which makes it obviously a cat. 1. Considering available ascents in Poland 2km at 9% is pretty bad looking on itself but this hill has a whole 1km at 14% peaking at 22%. Those stats are comparable with Mur de Huy and are slightly better than the Gliczarów Górny side Tour de Pologne overuses.

Profile of Góry Jamnickie hill.

So there must be a tiny little snag here or there? As for today i couldn't find one. Road is quite narrow but it's like 1,2-lane or somewhere there. A car (even small buses use this road) can fit without much problem. Surface is entirely asphalted even if the quality of it is varied. There are better and bit worser patches but nothing scary looking. Descent into Mystków is mostly shallow with even a short uphill stretch and doesn't seem to be technical at all (only one 90deg turn). The top of this hill is located roughly 13km from the finish line.

One of the two serpentines on Góry Jamnickie ascent.

This area will be used in this year's Tour de Pologne on stage 3 to Nowy Sącz. It will use adjacent to Góry Jamnickie ascent to Kunów village which is another short but very steep ascent – 0,8km at 12,7% peaking at roughly 20%. The road is of similar width and quality as Góry Jamnickie one. I won't be suprised if someday Tour de Pologne decide to reach Nowy Sącz from east it will use Góry Jamnickie. I think it's a rather plausible theory.

About the Nowy Sącz stages. This city is beautifuly surrounded by quite an amount of short but steep hills which are asphalted and aren't just a dead end. One of the examples is Laskowa which is 1km at 19% topping at astronomical 28%. It could be maybe combined with a nearby finish in Limanowa city. Stages from Tour de Pologne aren't that bad either but sadly they allways seem to have those useless laps. While in 2014 i couldn't understand why those laps were a thing but the east side they have some bit of an explanation. Tour de Pologne in Nowy Sącz seem to agree on only one place for finish which is on the east bank of route 75 in front of a mall known as Gołąbkowice. I understand that the west bank isn't used because of buses parked on Nadbrzeżna street but i don't understand why there are a couple of those laps rather than just one.

Finish in Nowy Sącz in Tour de Pologne 2014.

Now back to the stage. Descent from Góry Jamnickie will lead to the village of Mystków and after a false-flat in the village a steeper descent to national route 28 will follow. This part of descent will be used as an ascent in this year's Tour de Pologne. The adventure on route 28 will last 2,5km before riders will enter the outskirts of Nowy Sącz where they'll turn right into a rather narrow road (Jodłowa street) which soon will go uphill which indicates the last hill of the day – Chruślice. It's 1,1km at 10,2% (max propably around 15% but maybe it's more) and it's a cat. 1 hill topping at 417m a.s.l. Chruślice is one of Nowy Sącz's districts which is colorfuly located on the south slope of Mużeń hill (450m a.s.l.). Riders will turn left just before reaching Mrużeń because on top of it the asphalted road turns into gravel.

Ascent of Chruślice.

The road up and down is a narrow one-way. I'm not sure if cars will be allowed, propably only motos will be. Descent is propably the most controversial part of this stage as it's as steep as ascent (and even bigger max at 18%) and is as narrow as the ascent. There are two possibilities to take as a descent. The south bank of Chruslicka street or the newly done north side. Sadly while south side is more safe it was unfinished in 2013 so i don't know if it's now. The north side has a couple of loosely profiled bends and a particulary nasty 60deg turn. If the south side has a new surface then i obviously will use it but if not i'm stuck with the more dangerous north side.

From the top of this hill there are only 2,2km left which most of it are downhill. Only last 800m (which are on a wide, 2-lane road) are flat with three 90deg turn coming one after another. Thankfully last roughly 400m are straight. The finish line will be on Pułkownika Władysława Beliny-Prażmowskiego street at the end of 380m straight line. This finish is located slightly north than the traditional one because of a turn but there should be enough space for finish installations.

If Chruślice is too dangerous then maybe an alternative north ascent to Kunów could be used. It begins just before the road downhill from Mystków reaches route 28. It's called Ziołowa street and it's 650m long at 12,3% and it would be a cat. 2 hill. Then propably a descent through roads that will be used by this year's Tour de Pologne but the finish would be troublesome as there would be a 90deg turn like 100m before the finish line. The Ziołowa ascent is of similar width and quality as the south sideused in Tour de Pologne. This ascent would begin just at the bottom of the descent from Góry Jamnickie but it would be at least a couple of kms further from the finish than Chruślice.

An alternative ascent to Kunów.

This stage combined with the last TT in Kraków will be the deciding one. There will be time differences but i don't think they'll be big. I'm worried the TT in Kraków will generate bigger gaps so this stage (especially Góry Jamnickie) might be softpedalled. I hope that some guy like Dan Martin or Sergio Henao will wan't to ride such stage to ensure the preparations for Vuelta are on the right track. If there won't be a big difference between Kwiatkowski and Tony Martin then maybe Kwiat will try to drop Tony on this stage as he is better in higher percentages while being worser in TT. Thanks to it the last 15km could be interesting and Kwiat with the classics delegation of Sky aren't afraid of bold tactics.

Rest of this stage should be claimed by breakaway, propably quite large and strong. They'll obviously will battle the climbers jersey between them as this stage has the biggest amount of points to offer. Maybe if anybody in this group will be a GC threat then it will be allowed to contest for the win. I doubt there'll be any suprises like Voigt's win in Pologne 2008.

Tour de Pologne - stage 7. Kraków ITT, 25km

The last stage of this Tour de Pologne is unchanged. It's a 25km TT in Kraków.

Kraków ITT.

Most of the tours ends in a recap post but i tend to do a recap in the opening post which is here. I think that would be it for Tour de Pologne. I'm not sure what will be my next project and when it would be done. I guess i'll just wander a bit in a couple of countries and see what will happen and then leave an update.

 

[mikii4567]

Re: Re:

Today i did move west from Przemyśl too so i hope this stage won't interfere with yours or mikii4567's

Don't worry, my Tour de Pologne is predominantly in the west of the country, so far away from Przemyśl.

I guess that since you're done, I'll start my race on Friday.

 

[lemon cheese cake]

Please railxmig don't do anything differently only because I started my giro. I usually don't post my stages very regularly anyway

If you don't post your stages regularly, then I certainly don't. The Tour de Suisse I started to post hasn't seen the light of day on this forum for atleast 2-3 weeks.
I'm also planning a Tour de France, so at this rate it won't be fully posted before 2019!

Very nice race Railxmig. I love the cobbled and other surfaces. If the Vuelta, Worlds and Lombardia moved further into Autumn, then you could have the Tour of Poland, Eneco Tour, Binche Chimay Binche creating a tough surfaced road mini season. Then you could also have a cobbles in Yorkshire and move the Rutland Melton Classic up a couple of UCI levels and have Ridelondon all around that time. (To do this move the british august bank holiday back to the begining of august to make a three day semi-classic bank holiday weekend)

Hopefully that isn't too convoluted and people are able to understand that!

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Stage 4: Eibar - Vitória-Gasteiz, 163km

GPM:
Alto de Leintz-Gatzaga (cat.3) 6,0km @ 5,5%
Puerto de Azazeta (cat.3) 4,4km @ 5,9%
Alto de La Aldea (cat.3) 11,5km @ 3,3%
Puerto de Herrera (cat.1) 5,6km @ 8,4%
Puerto de Vitória (cat.3) 6,8km @ 3,0%

The easiest stage of the Vuelta al País Vasco, this stage takes us out of Gipuzkoa and into the southernmost Basque province, Álava (or Araba in Basque - however especially in the southerly Rioja Álavesa, this is a much more Castilianized area than Bizkaia or Gipuzkoa, and as a result the Castilian name is much more commonly recognized in respect of this province than the others), for a stage finish in the capital of the province, and, also, the administrative region of País Vasco.

It's also the stage I was slightly concerned by after designing, because while this is a bit of a retro design anyhow, the focal climb of the stage - the Puerto de Herrera - has been coming in for some attention on PRC recently as well as featuring in a stage of Visko's recent Vuelta design. Either way, those of you who speak Spanish owe it to yourselves to check out their soliloquy on the climb's history in the Vuelta which peaked in the 60s and 70s in the El Correo days of the Vuelta, when it finished annually in the Basque lands, but unlike other classics of the area like Urkiola and Arrate, it has not returned since the race ended its moratorium on the region in 2011.

Before we get to Vitória-Gasteiz, however, there are a few obstacles to take on as we move from the mountains of Gipuzkoa onto the high plateau. After a short loop that crosses over Bergara and Arrasate once more we climb - via the more interesting of the two roads - onto the plateau through the village of Leintz-Gatzaga, which yields this profile with the first 3km being essentially false flat and then 3km at around 9% including some nasty ramps. It has featured in stages of the last two Emakumeen Bira editions, with this year's race using the easier side and last year's using the harder one. There was also a 2006 País Vasco stage which finished on the climb and was won in a two-up sprint by Aaron Villegas, an unfulfilled talent on the Orbea team, ahead of Koldo Gil, the race leader.

This ascent takes us into Araba, where we will be for the rest of the day, barring two short excursions out of Euskadi. Before then, however, on our way to the regional capital we head past the Embalse Ullibarri-Gamboa, a large lake which is a popular day trip excursion for people from Vitória-Gasteiz, especially in the summer.

After avoiding the eastern side of the city we head through the suburbs of Vitória before heading into the southern Álaves mountains, via the lopsided and relatively uncomplicated Puerto de Azazeta. This takes us into the southernmost part of the region, the so-called Rioja Álavesa, which borders, unsurprisingly, La Rioja, and is similarly dotted with vineyards on its south-facing downhill slopes out of the mountains. We access this via a short detour into Navarra (Eus: Nafarroa) around Santikurutze, then the long and gradual - mostly just false flat - ascent and descent of La Aldea. At the base of the descent lies the scenic small town of Laguardia-Biasteri, which hosted the equivalent stage (then stage 2) of my first Vuelta al País Vasco route, and this time hosts an intermediate sprint.

As you can see, the scenery here is a lot more typical of the traditional outsider's view of Spanish countryside and that which we know from those Vuelta stages, coloured greatly by Castilla and La Mancha along with the scorched countryside of the south; it is admittedly less likely to look like this in early April, but this is the most "typically Spanish" looking part of Euskadi (maybe not the entirety of Euskal Herria if you subscribe to the whole Zazpiak Bat concept, because the area around Tudela would compete, although it is also markedly less Basque). From here we deviate from tradition a little, however.

In recent years, Vitória-Gasteiz has been a regular stage town for the Itzulia; it has featured on the route each year since 2012. In four straight years it hosted stage finishes, although this year it hosted a start only. The stages, from this in 2012 through to this in 2015, followed a similar format, starting like today's stage close to sea level and ascending to the high plateau, finishing with a short loop to the north of the city, featuring the north face of the gradual and unthreatening Puerto de Vitória and then with the slightly tougher but still far from dangerous Puerto de Zaldiarán to finish. Daryl Impey won twice in a row, from a late attack in 2012 and from a sprint in 2013, before Michael Matthews and Fabio Felline took the more recent stages in what has been the nearest thing to a flat stage in the race. I'm, however, not going for such a flat finish - my final climb is much easier, but my penultimate climb is much harder.

The Puerto de Herrera, as that PRC article linked earlier shows, has great history in the Vuelta, being used several times by the Vuelta over a 25 year span from the mid 50s to the late 70s. It was the scene where Jesús Loroño took the precedence over Bahamontes in the Spanish internal duel in 1956, and as a climb was won by many great climbers including Julio Jiménez, António Suárez, Vicente Belda and Agustín Tamames, but no race was more legendary than the Bilbao - Vitória stage of the 1971 Vuelta, whose finish this stage apes. This was where Luís Ocaña, the great Spanish stage racer of the day, decided to claw back the time that was taken away after a disastrous error of judgement after the péloton split in a flat stage. He attacked over 100km from the line on the Puerto de Orduña but, getting no collaboration, sat up and waited for the Puerto de Herrera. When it began, Ocaña struck, slamming the hammer down with vicious authority on that early kilometre at 11,4%; with it cresting 33km from the line, he had a 50" lead over the other big guns, who weren't working together, and four minutes on the bunch; this spread to 2 minutes over the leaders at the line and 7 minutes on the péloton. While poor organization, and the race organizers backing down over the race leader's team's threats to pull out when race leader Ferdinand Bracke was penalized 30" for taking an illegal bidon, meant Ocaña's efforts were all for naught, it is the last great mountain solo of the pre-MTF age in La Vuelta.

Close to the summit of the climb is the so-called Balcón de La Rioja, which allows the riders that look over their shoulder to see back into the plateau that they're leaving behind as they head back towards the terrain the Basque Country is famous for.

It is perhaps ironic, therefore, that at the base of the descent we cross out of País Vasco once more, for here we enter - as ever in stages into Vitória-Gasteiz - the little exclave of the Provincia de Burgos around the town of Treviño. This serves as the foot of both the southern faces of the Puerto de Vitória and Zaldiarán, with the latter being tougher but rendering Herrera further from the finish. Indeed, the final climb, cresting just 9,3km from the line, is little more than false flat bar one kilometre at 6%; given the stages to date - and coming - I therefore don't expect too many people to go all out Ocaña style on Herrera, but that's why we're going with this easier final climb - because the tougher penultimate climb should make it harder for the sprinters and their teams to control late attacks, meaning that while this is ultimately likely to be the least GC-relevant stage of the race, it could still give us some interesting late action and work well for a stagehunter. And the finish should at least be nice, by the edges of the preserved medieval city at the centre of the Basque capital, which has contributed many riders to the sport in recent years, perhaps most famously former ONCE and Liberty Seguros man and Euskaltel-Euskadi head honcho in their later years Igor González de Galdeano but also the orange team's long-time sprinter Koldo Fernández, and some less well-known names such as Ricardo García and one of my cult heroes, the promising prospect who could never deal with 180km+ on a single day, but when dismissed back to the amateur ranks, proven solo destroyer, Arkaitz Durán. While not as bustling and dramatic as Bilbao nor as scenic and tourist-friendly as Donostia, the city has a certain charm, with its cobbled central streets and its unusual two-cathedral layout. The run-in is, however, fairly straightforward and non-technical so this should be fairly safe, ahead of the weekend stages to come.

 

[Tonton]

Very cool designs. Props.

 

[52520Andrew]

Re: Re:

College is done for the semester so I am going to start pumping out Tour of California stages here soon. Will post a recap of the first 2 stages when I do so as it has been quite a while.

Been busy with other potential projects as well including a couple stages in the Death Valley Las Vegas area, a New England stage race, and a Giro is taking shape in the distance.

Good to hear, those American stage races should be interesting.
Recently I've tried to design a sage race in Nevada that starts around Las Vegas and ends near Carson City (about 5 stages), but the biggest problems is finding towns that are big enough to host a (transitional) stage, many stages are just ghosttowns, so you're almost forced to make very long sprint stages and you also have to deal with long transfers.

I will be curious to see how you are able to get things connected. I have hit the same problem with the Death Valley Race, the death valley is just too isolated of an area to support a multi stage race in real life which is a shame because there is some interesting terrain in the area. I think the best shot at seeing something stick in the area would be in the Las Vegas or Phoenix area in the early spring, maybe something like the Tour Down Under where it just stems from one of those places and if it gains enough popularity, maybe it can branch out.

Yeah, I thought that another option would be to start in Elko with a mid length ITT, 2 rather long sprint stages and then having the final 2 mountain stages around Carson City, Washoe and Lyon County, that would probably be easier than starting in the Las Vegas area and you have a few towns that could host a stage finish.

Yeah there seems to be more in that direction for you to work with. There really isn't much between Vegas and the Carson city area unless you want to go through California via Death Valley and Owens valley. I will be curious to see what you do in the Reno-Carson City area, lots of potential fun to be had there.

 

[mikii4567]

Here we go then...

My Tour de Pologne is completely different to that of railxmig's, in that his race focused on LBL-type stages and short but steep climbs. My race is much more focused on hard, grueling stages held in the mountains. I'm not saying this is a difficult race, but can be interesting.

I'm keeping the race at 7 days, it will be 1080km long. I know that's short for a seven day, but I think the stages compensate that. In terms of intermediate sprints, I want to have a set amount for each stage (unlike the real TdP, which varies that so much). On flat stages, there will be 3; on medium-mountain stages, there will be 2 and on mountain stages, there will be just one.

Tour de Pologne
Stage 1: Szczecin - Gorzów Wielkopolski (161km)

This stage is pretty much pan flat. I have pretty much forced the cat-3 climb towards the finish - as you can tell from the profile, it isn't that hard an ascent.

We start in Szczecin, a city in the north-west of Poland. It is known best for its port, which has been around since 1871, during the Prussian empire. Since 1945, it is an important sea port, known for coal exports during the cold. It also features a stunning old town, and has a population of approximately 400,000.

The race itself will start at the Grunwaldzki Square (plac Grunwaldzki) with the parade. km0 is 8,3km later, next to the Szczecin Aeroclub.

The peloton then heads north, towards Goleniów, where the first intermediate sprint is, after 28.2km. This city, home to many changes of ownership, features Szczecin's airport - Solidarity Airport. There, we turn south, to reach Stargard 34.2km later. Here, we find the second intermediate intermediate sprint. After passing through the feedzone, the final intermediate sprint is in Barlinek. Shortly after, we take on the previously mentioned category 3 climb (I've only included it to please the sponsor, otherwise even that wouldn't be there).

The finish is in Gorzów Wielkopolski. This town, like most of the west of Poland, faced being annexed by the west (Germany). Being mostly destroyed during World War II, it lost most of its history, though some buildings, such as the pictured Granary, still remain.

And then we come to a very delicate matter - circuits. Many people dislike them, claiming them to be boring. And I too am an opponent of spending a flat stage doing 50 loops of a town in the Silesian metropolis. However, having a short one to be completed thrice is OK for me - it gives the fans an opportunity to see the peloton multiple times and engages the cities to bring the race over. Therefore, today, we end with three laps of a 5.3km circuit.

The finish is on a nice, flat and wide road, so it's clearly a day for the sprinters.

Tomorrow, we enter hilly terrain.

Maps taken from openstreetmap.org