Race Design Thread

[SetonHallPirate]

Col de Pennes
Col de Menee

Thanks...couldn't identify them. Have either of them ever been used in the Tour?

 

[Ferminal]

No idea sorry! Probably been used in Paris-Nice.

 

[SetonHallPirate]

http://www.mapmyride.com/routes/view/110255827

Here's a bit of a short one, albeit one that will likely make the peloton scream...starts from Pau, ascends the Aubisque, and goes up the Tourmalet. In that way, it's identical to Stage 16 in this year's tour...but that's not the end of the Tourmalet. It then goes further up the "white road", finishing at the stage finish at Pic du Midi.

 

[Another_Dutch_Guy]

Well, those are some ridiculously crazy stages. Totally impossible to add in a grand tour, but still fun to read.

 

[SetonHallPirate]

Well, those are some ridiculously crazy stages. Totally impossible to add in a grand tour, but still fun to read.

I'd be merciless as a race director, can't you tell?

 

[Another_Dutch_Guy]

Well, I like that attitude, but let's analyze your stages

- As much as i like the Ventoux, it is not the best mountain to include before the Alpe. I prefer the normal approach using Telegraphe and Galiber.

- Your Stelvio stage is great, but you should replace the first ascend with a different climb. You cannot descend from a crowded Stelvio.

- As a last, I do not believe Pic du Midi can host a stage finish. It is incredibly small; and there will be a lot of spectators. Maybe a time trial the 'Plan de Corones' way, with ceremonies at La Mongie might be possible. But yeah, great mountain; they should surface it.

 

[Ferminal]

Working on a TdF to "fix" the first week. Quite hard to do geographically.

 

[SetonHallPirate]

Working on a TdF to "fix" the first week. Quite hard to do geographically.

I suspect next year's race, with the first three stages on the island of Corsica, will look similar to what we would like it to.

 

[McLovin]

My own version of using La Planche des Belles Filles. Stage start in Mulhouse and c'est avec Grand Ballon, Ballon d'Alsace et Ballon de Servance.

Distance 152.69 kms
Ascent 3475 m
Finish Elevation 993 m
Maximum Elevation 1328 m

 

[SetonHallPirate]

I've never actually mapped it out, but I have a general idea of how I'd want my "Tour of the United States" to go...

Prologue: Down the Las Vegas Strip
Stage 1: Las Vegas to Death Valley (medium mountain)
Stage 2: Death Valley to Whitney Portal (MTF)
Stage 3: Transitional down I-395
Stage 4: Through Angeles National Forest to Los Angeles (mountain)
Transfer to Aspen, Rest Day
Stage 5: Independence Pass to Leadville (mountain)
Stage 6: Mount Evans Climb Time Trial (MTF, obviously)
Stage 7: Through Estes Park (MTF)
Stage 8: Denver Circuit Race (early), transfer to DC that night
Stage 9: DC to Front Royal
Stage 10: Skyline Drive (medium mountain)
Stages 11-13: Blue Ridge Parkway, finishing Stage 13 at Clingman's Dome (all mountains, all could easily be MTFs)
Stage 14: Gatlinburg to Chattanooga
Stage 15: Chattanooga to Atlanta
Rest Day, Transfer to Boston
Stage 16: Boston to Manchester, NH
Stage 17: Manchester to Mount Washington (MTF)
Stage 18: Burlington, VT to Lake Placid, NY (probably could be moved to become an MTF)
Stage 19: Utica, NY to Ithaca, NY
Stage 20: New York City Time Trial

 

[rghysens]

Working on a TdF to "fix" the first week. Quite hard to do geographically.

I don't think it's that difficult. The main problem is that you can't start the tour always in the same area's.

 

[rghysens]

I suspect next year's race, with the first three stages on the island of Corsica, will look similar to what we would like it to.

From what we know, it won't.

 

[Ferminal]

I don't think it's that difficult. The main problem is that you can't start the tour always in the same area's.

If you take the Alps or Pyrenees inside the first week it will be hard to maintain the action for the length of the race.

A Vosges stage would work but I'm trying to have more than that at the start. So early stages in Piemonte, Suisse or Spain would work better. Ventoux and a hard Massif Central stage could work in combination too. As it happens the Corsican mountains would have provided an ideal setting, but this is purely hypothetical as we know Amaury are not daring enough to break formula.

Trying to keep things in France, my route will feature two incursions to the Alps (which is somewhat similar to the rumours we have for 2013), but transfers and ignoring the northwest third of the country are big problems.

Kind of sick of seeing the same one or two "hilly" stages in the first week which prove to be nothing.

 

[Netserk]

I don't think it's that difficult. The main problem is that you can't start the tour always in the same area's.

And then you can always have grand depart in places like Switzerland or Welsh or Italy Plenty of different places where you can have a descent start if one wants to.

EDIT: Puy de Dôme should be ideal to make an early selection together with a lumpy Massif Central stage

 

[Netserk]

Kind of sick of seeing the same one or two "hilly" stages in the first week which prove to be nothing.

I think the problem would be solved, if you had a classic/monument tough hilly stage in the opening weekend, though the main problem would be that it would be the first hard stage, and therefore many trying to protect their leaders -> many crashes.

But I agree that if one wants to have a true selection, a couple of hills in the final of a 200 km stage simply doesn't do the job.

 

[Magnus]

Working on a TdF to "fix" the first week. Quite hard to do geographically.

What are your objectives for this "fix"?

 

[Netserk]

A Stage Needed In This Years Tour

Cuneo, Col de la Lombarde, Col de Restefond, Col du Parpaillon, Les Orres Station.

Note: Yes there is both unpaved road on the ascent as well as on the descent.

Profile of the ascent of Col du Parpaillon:

Profile of the descent of Col du Parpaillon (until 'Le Villard'):

 

[Magnus]

Crossing the Parpillon in current state would be beyond ridiculous:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g09-Skm-YZA&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EOt7tVvaZlk

 

[Netserk]

Crossing the Parpillon in current state would be beyond ridiculous:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g09-Skm-YZA&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EOt7tVvaZlk

It's going to be EPIC!

EDIT: But to be serious the tunnel is only like 500 meters long, and there is actually a little path over that I think they would be able to pave.

 

[Magnus]

It's going to be EPIC!

Check out the road at 2:50 and the tunnel at 4:30 in this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9l72uGYSCkc&feature=related

 

[Magnus]

EDIT: But to be serious the tunnel is on like 500 meters long, and there is actually a little path over that I think they would be able to pave.

I'd love to go there sometime on my cross bike, but I honestly don't know if I'd dare to go through the tunnel. From what I've read there's a part where you can't see the light in neither end of the tunnel and supposedly it's very cold inside so for most of the year the water on the ground is frozen. You can read more about the climb here:
http://cycloclimbing.com/alpspassunpaved/u5parpaillon.html

 

[Progsprach]

Aiyou de Zhonguo / Tour of China

While the World Tour keeps introducing mediocre cyclingraces in China, why not go for the real thing, a nice old fashioned 21-stage Grand Tour all around the Middle Kingdom?
I'm almost sure nobody cares, but to be comprehensive before we start here the classifications in short form:
Int. Sprint(more than one per stage possible): 10/8/6/5/4/3/2/1
Time Trial: 16/13/cont. like Int.Sprint
Mountain stage/Summit finish: 24/20/cont. like TT
Hilly stage: 32/28/cont. like. MT
Flat stage: 40/36/cont. like HI

Category 4: 3/2/1
C3/C4 finish: 6/4/c. like C4
C2/C3 fin.: 15/12/9/c. like C3
C1/C2 fin.: 30/26/22/18/c. like C2
HC/C1 fin.: 50/45/40/35/c. like C1
HC fin.: 80/74/66/58/c. like HC

Jerseys: Following the five chinese elements Red/Fire for the points classification(because of the sprinter's sudden burst), Green/Wood for the best young rider(because of growth potential), Black/Water for the mountains(because it's cold up there), White/Metal for the combination classification(because it's been considered dead) and Yellow/Earth for the overall leader (because it stands for balance).
Yes, I know I'm only allowed four jersey's but this was too perfect, make one a number or something.

The first week will feature tests against the time, mass sprints and some hills. The second week will have mostly sprints and mountains and the third one mostly hills and mountains.

And now without further ado, on to the Hao Kaiduan/Grand Depart.

PS:Thanks, Chinese dictionary

 

[Progsprach]

Tour of China Stage 1

Hongkong ITT (17km)

Well we'll start this off with a short time trial in one of China's SARs, Hong Kong.
After some shart turns on Western Harbor Bridge to slow down the fast men and test their bike handling there's mostly long straight sections and the bends are less sharp. However, there is the climb up Victoria Peak (4,5km@4,5%), where cat. 4 points are given and its descent. After that the riders will leave Hong Kong Island on the Eastern Harbor Bridge, where the finish is judged. The sprinters will fight it out to the first timecheck at 3km, where sprint points will be distributed. Even though a specialist will probably win this, there should be something for everyone in this TT.

Route:

Profile:

 

[Another_Dutch_Guy]

Hell, I like the idea! Calendar-wise a one week Shanghai to Beijing race would probably make more sense, but who cares.

The opening TT looks good already!

 

[Progsprach]

Tour of China Stage 2

Shenzen - Heyuan (191km)

Well, a GT gotta have what a GT gotta have, namely its share of flat stages.
We start in Shenzhen, only a short transfer away from yesterday's finish. The profile is not completely flat, there are some hills in it, but only two are notable, the cat. 4 climbs in Longgang(2km@8,5%) and Bailuzhai(1,5km@12%).
At least this means we'll probably have a new rider in the black jersey (and probably also the white one). The sprinter's teams will probably try to keep the breakaway small to take some points for the red jersey in Huiyang and Huizhou.
The completely flat finish in Heyuan means that our TT specialist will keep his jersey, but the stage victory is for the sprinters. They should take the opportunities the've got, because there won't be too many here, otherwise the Red Jersey might slip from their grasp.

Route:

Profile: