Race Radios: Better Olympic races without?

[Old&slow]

lack of radios played a large part in why the breakaway succeeded according to Boonen. With the crowd nose and the lack of radios Bleguim was not able to adjust their strategy. Small team size and lack of effort by the Australians also played a large part as well.

IMO the way the Olympic road race ended was terrible and quite similar to the travesties that were stage 12 and 15 of this years Tour. The break should never have succeeded. Instead we were robbed of an exciting sprint finish and were subjected to a boring breakaway win.

This years Olympic RR demonstrated the need for radios and larger team sizes. With better information it will allow for more options and more tactics. Instead teams rode blindly sticking to their original plan unable to adjust and what we got was a terrible boring finish.

 

[BroDeal]

IMO the way the Olympic road race ended was terrible and quite similar to the travesties that were stage 12 and 15 of this years Tour. The break should never have succeeded. Instead we were robbed of an exciting sprint finish and were subjected to a boring breakaway win.

As a fan I don't think I have ever felt robbed of a sprint finish, exciting or otherwise.

1 Vino win from a break > 100 Cav wins

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

I personally think it's great, and would like to see radios eliminated, or at the very least eliminate split times, and allow the radios to be one-way (rider to car) for emergencies.

As to team size, I like the idea of slowly cutting team sizes down to first 8, then maybe 7 or even 6. I think it would make for much more exciting racing.

To me what we're seeing today where a break goes out for 70k, and then the peloton catches them within the last few km because they have DS's in team cars to calculate exactly when to chase and how hard, it's made for some very dull racing on races that could otherwise be exciting.

 

[Ripper]

lack of radios played a large part in why the breakaway succeeded according to Boonen. With the crowd nose and the lack of radios Bleguim was not able to adjust their strategy. Small team size and lack of effort by the Australians also played a large part as well.

IMO the way the Olympic road race ended was terrible and quite similar to the travesties that were stage 12 and 15 of this years Tour. The break should never have succeeded. Instead we were robbed of an exciting sprint finish and were subjected to a boring breakaway win.

This years Olympic RR demonstrated the need for radios and larger team sizes. With better information it will allow for more options and more tactics. Instead teams rode blindly sticking to their original plan unable to adjust and what we got was a terrible boring finish.

Wow. I am almost at a loss for words. Boring finish? Better if we had radios and bigger teams?? Are you smoking something

The lack of radios calls for more adjustment on the road. That is real racing.

Smaller teams means no one team can be stupid-dominant and opens up the racing even more.

This race course looked like it was going to be boring but it actually wasn't. But if we had large teams and radios, perhaps it would have been just another bunch kick.

 

[BroDeal]

imagine the roads too. 44 less riders at this years tour would have made the route safer than a radio in each ear

Nah. Six extra teams need to be invited. The problem of Pro Conti teams not getting an invite goes away. Plus a couple of regional teams from outside of Europe could be included to grow the sport. Invite an Iranian team or a Japanese one.

World Tour teams and their required budgets could shrink. Right now they need thirty riders to do all the races. Seven man teams would knock that down to twenty-four or twenty-five.

 

[Ripper]

imagine the roads too. 44 less riders at this years tour would have made the route safer than a radio in each ear

This is exactly the type of change I've been wanting. Teams down to 6 or 7 riders .... way more exciting, way safer. Of course, I could see the GTs just inviting more teams to make it just as crowded

 

[42x16ss]

Nah. Six extra teams need to be invited. The problem of Pro Conti teams not getting an invite goes away. Plus a couple of regional teams from outside of Europe could be included to grow the sport. Invite an Iranian team or a Japanese one.

World Tour teams and their required budgets could shrink. Right now they need thirty riders to do all the races. Seven man teams would knock that down to twenty-four or twenty-five.

Could be great as sponsor's would get more value, as their team would be invited to more big races to make up the numbers while paying for less riders, bikes, DS's, team cars, kits etc.

The racing could be affected a few different ways - teams would find it even harder to support a sprinter and GC rider, which could lead to weaker teams overall or more teams with 1 strong GC rider making GT's more competitive and mano a mano. OTOH it could mean more teams trying to support top tier sprinters meaning more trains jostling for position in the last 2-3 km's of flat stages.

 

[Cancellator]

Drastically reducing team size will be very hard to do, maybe 1 less rider every 2 years until they reach 7 or 6, I can't see it happening faster than that.

Race radios, I think, should be eliminated - right now, some riders are just a pair of legs pedalling away according to strict orders. Maybe they should still have earpieces, but they would be connected to something like Radio Tour - the same general info for everyone; this way, they will still find out the gaps etc., but there will be no DS talking in their ears in real time. If you want orders, send a dom. to the team car to relay them to you!

About safety, remember that article from the Tour when Tommy V. blamed the crash on the radios, because all DSs kept shouting at their riders to keep at the front? Think about that.

Oh, and the post on the last page with the "boring breakaway finish" is obviously trolling .

 

[S2Sturges]

I personally think it's great, and would like to see radios eliminated, or at the very least eliminate split times, and allow the radios to be one-way (rider to car) for emergencies.

As to team size, I like the idea of slowly cutting team sizes down to first 8, then maybe 7 or even 6. I think it would make for much more exciting racing.

To me what we're seeing today where a break goes out for 70k, and then the peloton catches them within the last few km because they have DS's in team cars to calculate exactly when to chase and how hard, it's made for some very dull racing on races that could otherwise be exciting.

When I raced in the 80's, you got your race bible and actually read it, it told you stuff, like certain road furniture, sharp bends, lengths of climbs, potential hazards, all that .. you got out there, and saw how the race was building,who looked strong, who was talking to who, and read the race.
The dullness of racing the past ten years has been stupefying, of course there are the token breaks, and occasionally a climber or two will go out and trash himself to get a mountain victory, but as many have mentioned, it's there goes the break, they get 4-5 minutes then reeled in with 10 k to go and the favourites sprint..There are advocates that'll wistfully pray for the return of down tube shifters, steel frames and hairnets, but the moderns want every advantage possible, one of my old club teams have Cats 1-4, all have race radios.... that is a bit much, n'est pas?
As long as huge budget teams call the shots with race organisers, who ever they are, radios will remain the norm, 9-10 man teams will stay, and the present style of racing will remain, if you thought Sky's attics this year were dull imagine 3 or 4 competing teams , doing the same, waiting for the TT and riding tempo the rest of the time. You'll get the odd little battler like a Tommy Voeckler doing his thing, otherwise it'll be like listening to Phil and Paul without a picture, and it's bad enough with a picture..

 

[Ferminal]

Nah. Six extra teams need to be invited. The problem of Pro Conti teams not getting an invite goes away. Plus a couple of regional teams from outside of Europe could be included to grow the sport. Invite an Iranian team or a Japanese one.

World Tour teams and their required budgets could shrink. Right now they need thirty riders to do all the races. Seven man teams would knock that down to twenty-four or twenty-five.

It makes perfect sense to me.

But on what grounds does Vaughters reject it?

 

[gustienordic]

I'm not convinced this race dynamic was due to small teams or lack of race radios (although the last might have helped when the peloton did not know who was in the break) but lets just look at the caliber of the riders in the break. A 12 man Sky team would have had great difficulty bringing the gap back. Lets see:

Vino, Uran, Kristoff, Phinney, Lagutin, O'grady, Roelandts, Rast, Paolini, Baurer, Boom, Fuglsang, Costa, Sanchez, Kreuziger, Henao, Grivko, Valverde, Gilbert, Chavanel, Brajkovic, Beppu, Gesink, Kolobnev, Nordhaug, Castroviejo, Nibali, Cancellara

Those are some of the strongest riders in the world. good luck pulling back a breakaway that contains Cancellara, Sanchez, & Chavanel, three of the best TT'ers in the world.

 

[Boeing]

Nah. Six extra teams need to be invited. The problem of Pro Conti teams not getting an invite goes away. Plus a couple of regional teams from outside of Europe could be included to grow the sport. Invite an Iranian team or a Japanese one.

World Tour teams and their required budgets could shrink. Right now they need thirty riders to do all the races. Seven man teams would knock that down to twenty-four or twenty-five.

true dat

all french

 

[Eyeballs Out]

I'm not convinced this race dynamic was due to small teams or lack of race radios (although the last might have helped when the peloton did not know who was in the break) but lets just look at the caliber of the riders in the break. A 12 man Sky team would have had great difficulty bringing the gap back. Lets see:

Vino, Uran, Kristoff, Phinney, Lagutin, O'grady, Roelandts, Rast, Paolini, Baurer, Boom, Fuglsang, Costa, Sanchez, Kreuziger, Henao, Grivko, Valverde, Gilbert, Chavanel, Brajkovic, Beppu, Gesink, Kolobnev, Nordhaug, Castroviejo, Nibali, Cancellara

Those are some of the strongest riders in the world. good luck pulling back a breakaway that contains Cancellara, Sanchez, & Chavanel, three of the best TT'ers in the world.

If there was a 12 man Sky team the breakaway would have consisted of a Ukranian, an Iranian and a Mexican

 

[Magnus]

I'm not convinced this race dynamic was due to small teams or lack of race radios (although the last might have helped when the peloton did not know who was in the break) but lets just look at the caliber of the riders in the break. A 12 man Sky team would have had great difficulty bringing the gap back. Lets see:

Vino, Uran, Kristoff, Phinney, Lagutin, O'grady, Roelandts, Rast, Paolini, Baurer, Boom, Fuglsang, Costa, Sanchez, Kreuziger, Henao, Grivko, Valverde, Gilbert, Chavanel, Brajkovic, Beppu, Gesink, Kolobnev, Nordhaug, Castroviejo, Nibali, Cancellara

Those are some of the strongest riders in the world. good luck pulling back a breakaway that contains Cancellara, Sanchez, & Chavanel, three of the best TT'ers in the world.

With big groups chasing each other it's not (only) about the individual rider's strength, it's (as much) about the riders' ability/willingness to cooperate. And in breaks with more than 6-8 riders cooperation usually isn't very good.

 

[red_flanders]

I'm not convinced this race dynamic was due to small teams or lack of race radios (although the last might have helped when the peloton did not know who was in the break) but lets just look at the caliber of the riders in the break. A 12 man Sky team would have had great difficulty bringing the gap back. Lets see:

Vino, Uran, Kristoff, Phinney, Lagutin, O'grady, Roelandts, Rast, Paolini, Baurer, Boom, Fuglsang, Costa, Sanchez, Kreuziger, Henao, Grivko, Valverde, Gilbert, Chavanel, Brajkovic, Beppu, Gesink, Kolobnev, Nordhaug, Castroviejo, Nibali, Cancellara

Those are some of the strongest riders in the world. good luck pulling back a breakaway that contains Cancellara, Sanchez, & Chavanel, three of the best TT'ers in the world.

For sure. What I'm curious about is whether the lack of radios played a part in letting this freakish set of riders get into a break in the first place, or the smaller teams just couldn't cover it, or both. I didn't see the first couple hours.

 

[Kellys Big Sprocket]

Probably a bit of both. It certainly seemed that riders were having trouble getting time checks for the motorcycles which may have added to the confusion.

My feeling is that the team size makes a bigger difference.

Don't be late Pedro. Bet you wished u had a radio back on "that day" back in 89.

 

[Kellys Big Sprocket]

If there where radio's Cav would have won the Gold in the bunch sprint. KBS end's his case here. Thank you.

 

[Kellys Big Sprocket]

(edited by Kellys Big Sprocket legal team)

 

[Fowsto Cope-E]

Having raced with them a mostly without...the strong riders and teams can win either way. The racing is more attentive without them and that seems to be what the "fans" want. Safety...pft. Hands down safer without them and with less riders on silly roads with traffic islands. Someone can tell you on a radio you'll encounter a traffic barrier at 121.5km into the race but it's only the last several inches that count.

+1

I just finished racing at le Tour de l'Abitibi, an international week-long junior stage race. At Abitibi, we didn't have race radios and we had teams of six.That did not stop the race from being controlled at the front with breaks being easily brought back. I did a fair bit of pulling back breakaways, and I have to say, we never had a problem with not knowing how far up the break was. The time gap was given by the moto official frequently enough for us not to worry. The US National Team was by far the most dominate team in the race, and they had no problems controlling the race and coming away with the win.

Plus, I really don't understand the call for radio bans. It's supposed to make things more exiting by withholding information from the riders? That just seems odd to me. Why not get rid anything that helps riders know what is happening during the race? Make it so that they never know what the time gap is, or who is in the breakaway. Is there even a breakaway? Nobody knows! How exiting!

 

[Cancellator]

+1
Plus, I really don't understand the call for radio bans. It's supposed to make things more exiting by withholding information from the riders? That just seems odd to me. Why not get rid anything that helps riders know what is happening during the race? Make it so that they never know what the time gap is, or who is in the breakaway. Is there even a breakaway? Nobody knows! How exiting!

At least for me, the point of not having race radios has more to do with the instant orders given to the riders by the DS than with breakaway info. This way the riders might have to react to some moves by themselves.

Being a racer, I can't deny you might know better than me I guess.

 

[Oldman]

For sure. What I'm curious about is whether the lack of radios played a part in letting this freakish set of riders get into a break in the first place, or the smaller teams just couldn't cover it, or both. I didn't see the first couple hours.

As narrow as the course was in many areas the only riders that could see who went up the road were the guys up front...pulling...all Brits. If they couldn't respond they have nothing to complain about.

 

[DirtyWorks]

Plus, I really don't understand the call for radio bans. It's supposed to make things more exiting by withholding information from the riders?

The larger issue is bringing race strategy back into the peloton or not.

What you are describing can be achieved with radio broadcast by the race commissar and race strategy can return to the riders in the race. Thinking clearly at maximum intensity becomes a factor in the race. The most recent example being young Uran's poor sprint finish.

 

[Rockets160]

As a fan I don't think I have ever felt robbed of a sprint finish, exciting or otherwise.

1 Vino win from a break > 100 Cav wins

+100000!!!!!!!!!!! I would rather see Vino/anyone attack in the end and win than it come down to a sprint where the odds on favorite is "escorted" to the finish. This is not to say Cav was unbeatable, but the odds were definitely in his favor. This is one of the reasons the Tour was as boring as it was. The lack of attacks (GC wise).

 

[Rockets160]

lack of radios played a large part in why the breakaway succeeded according to Boonen. With the crowd nose and the lack of radios Bleguim was not able to adjust their strategy. Small team size and lack of effort by the Australians also played a large part as well.

IMO the way the Olympic road race ended was terrible and quite similar to the travesties that were stage 12 and 15 of this years Tour. The break should never have succeeded. Instead we were robbed of an exciting sprint finish and were subjected to a boring breakaway win.

This sounds like a Cav fan getting **** hurt.

 

[Fowsto Cope-E]

The larger issue is bringing race strategy back into the peloton or not.

What you are describing can be achieved with radio broadcast by the race commissar and race strategy can return to the riders in the race. Thinking clearly at maximum intensity becomes a factor in the race. The most recent example being young Uran's poor sprint finish.

I see your point. Having good awareness and good tactics is very important in bike racing, and racers do need to be able to read the race on their own and make their own decisions while on the bike. I guess the argument that I normally hear for the radio ban is that flat stages will be more exiting because the breakaway is more likely to make it (this opinion is the main one voiced in the OP). I don't think that a radio ban will really make racing any more exciting, but I do like that it puts a majority of the decision-making on the rider instead of the DS. That is a fundamental part of bike racing that all racers have to learn. Pros weren't always pros and as such, should know how to handle themselves tactically on the road.

Furthermore, I guess that my personal example/story just shows that riders don't need radios to get the information they need, so a ban really shouldn't be a big problem to them. In terms of safety, I doubt any of the countless crashes at le Tour de l'Abitibi would have been avoided by race radios.