Race Thread

[Wyndbrook]

If Pidcock were still riding cx, you'd have a top level, and regular contended for at least strong top ten placing, and a solid top 30 guy: is that historically poor? Has there frequently been more than 2 British riders in the top 25 of the rankings? (genuine questions: I've really only got into cyclocross in the last 6 years or so)

No. Pidcock and Mason are the only male riders to either have, or do race consistantly at or near the front. Pidcock is the only rider to medal at a senior worlds.
Historically there have been some bright spots, mainly in the amateur ranks.
Louise Robinson and Helen Wyman have both medalled at senior womens worlds.
Helen was twice European champion and along with Nickki Brammier (Harris) were world cup and worlds contenders. I believe Evie Richards is the only woman to win a world cup race, hopefully Zoe will add her name to the short list.

 

[awavey]

If Pidcock were still riding cx, you'd have a top level, and regular contended for at least strong top ten placing, and a solid top 30 guy: is that historically poor? Has there frequently been more than 2 British riders in the top 25 of the rankings? (genuine questions: I've really only got into cyclocross in the last 6 years or so)

well no probably not, Ian Field, now commenting for Discovery on CX was probably the last pre Pidcock British rider pushing into the rankings on the mens side, but more like a top 30-40ish rider overall. Probably wasnt a lack of ability, more a lack of funding to spend the time to train and race properly.

and then you had Helen Wyman and Nikki Brammeier on the womens.

but both Hannah Barnes and Alice Barnes won the British junior nationals titles, Evie Richards of course 2 x U23 world champion, though she seems to have swapped to MTB permanently now.

Cat Ferguson & Imogen Woolf are both skipping CX now.

as I say yes Dutch/Belgian CX is on another level, always has been, but the British CX scene did exist as a thing and it very much isnt anymore and declining. So Cam Mason may well be the last Brit left racing this stuff at world cup level as I dont see any riders coming through it anymore, and it will become even more niche part of cycling than it already is.

 

[jono]

as I say yes Dutch/Belgian CX is on another level, always has been, but the British CX scene did exist as a thing and it very much isnt anymore and declining. So Cam Mason may well be the last Brit left racing this stuff at world cup level as I dont see any riders coming through it anymore, and it will become even more niche part of cycling than it already is.

The big hope for amateur CX outside of the sport's heartland is that everyone who is riding gravel bikes will soon realize how much riding in the hot sun, mostly alone, for 5 or 6 hours kind of sucks. But riding the same bike, maybe with some different tires, in a park while trying to beat some friends, and drink some beers, is pretty fun.

Who knows, it might work.

 

[Wyndbrook]

Not sure I woud agree that British cyclocross is declining. Maybe some local leagues have seen a reduction from three or four years ago, but overall numbers are holding up.
Accepting it was a joint promotion of two leagues, but I spectated at recent event where there were around 300 racing across all classes.

 

[Barkintheeye]

That's not British CX, that's any country other than Belgium and Netherlands.
Who is following Orts, Kuhn, Boros, Strohmeyer or Konwa? Where is French, Italian or German CX at all* ?

The second GB rider (Mein) is higher UCI ranked than the second from any country other than Belgium and Netherlands, but if he were Belgian/Dutch with the same results, he would be ranked 11th/6th nationally.

There is maybe a bit more strength in depth in the women's ranks, but the best second highest of any nation other than Dutch is Brouwers, but she has 8 Dutch above her.

* in elites, plenty of younger riders
(positions from First Cycling reporting of UCI standings)

Italy seems to produce a good number of top riders in the junior ranks but these riders look to disappear when they reach U23/Elite. All to the road teams?

 

[Barkintheeye]

The big hope for amateur CX outside of the sport's heartland is that everyone who is riding gravel bikes will soon realize how much riding in the hot sun, mostly alone, for 5 or 6 hours kind of sucks. But riding the same bike, maybe with some different tires, in a park while trying to beat some friends, and drink some beers, is pretty fun.

Who knows, it might work.

I’d agree with you but the flow seems to be the opposite. Some CX riders are switching to gravel, less technical, more endurance, less fuzz with equipment and more events with more riders and competition seem to drive the popularity from CX towards gravel. Unfortunately I don’t see any roadies that try gravel continuing over to CX. I’m happy to be wrong here but this is what I’m seeing over the last years

 

[awavey]

Not sure I woud agree that British cyclocross is declining. Maybe some local leagues have seen a reduction from three or four years ago, but overall numbers are holding up.
Accepting it was a joint promotion of two leagues, but I spectated at recent event where there were around 300 racing across all classes.

It might be going back to the early noughties but some local leagues could field that many riders in just one race.

Thats why it feels to me at least its been in decline for a while, we might have hit the core support left now so its not completely disappearing rapidly, but its not growing and probably not sustainable as people age out of the racing scene but arent replaced by the juniors growing into it

 

[awavey]

The big hope for amateur CX outside of the sport's heartland is that everyone who is riding gravel bikes will soon realize how much riding in the hot sun, mostly alone, for 5 or 6 hours kind of sucks. But riding the same bike, maybe with some different tires, in a park while trying to beat some friends, and drink some beers, is pretty fun.

Who knows, it might work.

lost count of the number of "gravel" events ive been to where you might just as well have been on a MTB, the British championships have already been cancelled due to cost/lack of sponsors i think (there might be more to it, ie awkward land owners etc etc but haven't had chance to research it yet)

 

[jono]

lost count of the number of "gravel" events ive been to where you might just as well have been on a MTB, the British championships have already been cancelled due to cost/lack of sponsors i think (there might be more to it, ie awkward land owners etc etc but haven't had chance to research it yet)

I haven't encountered that in my local scene. North America, and especially the Great Plains where I reside, has no shortage of proper gravel roads with minimal traffic.

The main difference I see between people's attitudes towards both sports (speaking strictly about amateurs and casuals here) is that in cyclocross there is simply no getting around the fact that you are in a race. You will pass others and/or be passed and the competitive emotions surrounding that will bubble up. Some like this, many don't. For a good chunk of the field in a gravel event, participants treat it much more like a marathon (or half/10k/choose your distance). It is about completing the distance, if you're lucky riding with some friends, and feeling good about yourself afterwards, with only a few truly racing on the pointy end. Frankly, most people simply aren't fit enough to be actually racing for 4+ hours.

 

[Hugh Januss]

I haven't encountered that in my local scene. North America, and especially the Great Plains where I reside, has no shortage of proper gravel roads with minimal traffic.

The main difference I see between people's attitudes towards both sports (speaking strictly about amateurs and casuals here) is that in cyclocross there is simply no getting around the fact that you are in a race. You will pass others and/or be passed and the competitive emotions surrounding that will bubble up. Some like this, many don't. For a good chunk of the field in a gravel event, participants treat it much more like a marathon (or half/10k/choose your distance). It is about completing the distance, if you're lucky riding with some friends, and feeling good about yourself afterwards, with only a few truly racing on the pointy end. Frankly, most people simply aren't fit enough to be actually racing for 4+ hours.

^^^This compared to gravel cyclocross is intense and sometimes tight and there are people watching and judging (or at least it feels like they are). Gravel attracts the cyclist version of the thousands of people who are "runners" because they paid 80-100 bucks to plod around a 10K race course at about half the pace of the front runners. They bring their love of "competing" without intensive training and their $100 entry fees in droves to the new sport of gravel which then turns around and uses part of those entry fees to attract all the top elite crossers away with more enticing payouts. Suddenly cross reverts to being the tiny little fringe sport that it was 20 years ago, except that Parks Departments have gotten used to charging a couple grand for exclusive access for a weekend instead of a couple hundred like they were asking 10 years ago. You can't pay for a park and set up a course and break even on expenses unless you get at least 200-250 entries. A cross course requires lots more preparation than telling a thousand racers "go, but remember to follow all traffic laws when you're on the road and when you get to the dirt be wary of cows and tractors".

 

[awavey]

I haven't encountered that in my local scene. North America, and especially the Great Plains where I reside, has no shortage of proper gravel roads with minimal traffic.

and Id much rather be riding your proper gravel roads than what they claim is often gravel in the UK, we do have proper some gravel roads, but what they arrange as gravel rides in the UK is basically a mix between CX & MTB that we get.

there was one sportive I did claimed to be a road/gravel mix, which sounds great, the road bits were fine, the gravel bits were cycling around the local forest trails, which included one bit which was literally like someone had just dumped 1000s of bricks over 100m, not laid I mean literally dumped so they were all at the irregular angles at which they fell, how you were supposed to ride that without anything other than a fat wheel bike I do not know. but they claimed it was a gravel course.

 

[Sciatic]

^^^This compared to gravel cyclocross is intense and sometimes tight and there are people watching and judging (or at least it feels like they are). Gravel attracts the cyclist version of the thousands of people who are "runners" because they paid 80-100 bucks to plod around a 10K race course at about half the pace of the front runners. They bring their love of "competing" without intensive training and their $100 entry fees in droves to the new sport of gravel which then turns around and uses part of those entry fees to attract all the top elite crossers away with more enticing payouts. Suddenly cross reverts to being the tiny little fringe sport that it was 20 years ago, except that Parks Departments have gotten used to charging a couple grand for exclusive access for a weekend instead of a couple hundred like they were asking 10 years ago. You can't pay for a park and set up a course and break even on expenses unless you get at least 200-250 entries. A cross course requires lots more preparation than telling a thousand racers "go, but remember to follow all traffic laws when you're on the road and when you get to the dirt be wary of cows and tractors".

all of which is unfortunate from a fan's/spectator's perspective (I'm not at all speaking of the participant's experience) because cross racing is great viewing-whether in person or on a screen. In much of the U.S., where we don't have much in the way of real road races, watching cross is far more interesting than urban crits even when the latter draws a higher-level field.

 

[RedheadDane]

Uhm... just to be clear, the 52 podiums in a row record Brand can beat... that's races, right? Not World Cups...

 

[pastronef]

crowds not that big in Sardinia

 

[RedheadDane]

Nice post-race bath.

 

[pastronef]

what a great race WITHOUT Mathieu and Wout.

 

[TourOfSardinia]

crowds not that big in Sardinia

yes I didn't go

 

[CXXC]

what a great race WITHOUT Mathieu and Wout.

Great men's race , women's less so . Circuit was rather terrible but what could be done with so little elevation difference.

 

[Axel Hangleck]

I thought it was a pretty ordinary course - and surely there are better venues in Italy who can afford to host a CX World Cup?
I’d really like to see a hilly course in the Italian Alps, doesn’t have to be snow, just a course with climbs, and some descents to offer something different from what we usually see.
We’re coming into the part of the season which will likely see numerous Belgian mudfests, which soon become tiresome…….

 

[Barkintheeye]

Hope you all watched the Essen race. Mighty strong fighting by Hernandez that not only managed two times to come back to the front group but also made a senseless but lovely attack on one of the last laps. It didn’t hold of course but still hats off for the guts and showing. Vandeputte and Sweeck looked strongest but Vandebosch took the chance when it opened up.

 

[TheRossSeaParty]

Will anyone challenge Brand this year? I can't tell if she is really that good, or all the best competition is out with injury or otherwise. The rest of the field can only challenge her if they ride a perfect race.

I would like to see Ryan Kamp win something, but he doesn't seem to ride like believes he can win.

And cool to see local boy Finn Westover out there in a World Cup and actually finishing without being lapped.

 

[CXXC]

Will anyone challenge Brand this year? I can't tell if she is really that good, or all the best competition is out with injury or otherwise. The rest of the field can only challenge her if they ride a perfect race.

I really don't understand , Brand has her skillset but she is no world beater like MVDP to be fair her recent performances on the road have been pretty ordinary yet at her age she performs better than ever year on year in CX.
There is very little depth of talent in women's CX , look how quickly the field stretches out with very few competing for podium spots. Then there are so many either injured or not interested in competing in CX.

 

[jono]

Will anyone challenge Brand this year? I can't tell if she is really that good, or all the best competition is out with injury or otherwise. The rest of the field can only challenge her if they ride a perfect race.

Brand has been one of the best in the sport since at least 2018 and the best in many of those seasons.

Even when the trio of van Empel, Pieterse, and van Anrooij began racing elites as 20 year olds, Brand was still finishing on the podium far more often than not. She is remarkably consistent, and not far off those racers even on their best day.

Pieterse can no longer do a full CX season due to her road and MTB commitments. Van Empel seems to be having her own issues, and van Anrooij has had injury problems. The next likely challengers, riders like Vas and Backstedt, haven't raced either in 2025.

With her commitment to the sport, I think it's safe to assume that Brand is good, one of the best if not the best, until proven otherwise.

I'm hoping we see a few races in the CX calendar that include Pieterse, van Empel, van Anrooij, Backstedt, Vas, Alvarado, Schreiber, maybe even some Holmgrens in addition to Brand, but even the I'd be rather surprised if Brand finished outside the top 3.

 

[theyoungest]

The only ones who can challenge Brand are Van Empel and Pieterse. Van Empel beats her on pure power, and Pieterse on technique. Neither of them are racing, so then it becomes a walk in the park for Brand.

At least Pieterse will return in Namur. She often needs a little time to get back in the groove though. Van Empel... we can only hope she returns to racing at all, never mind winning.

 

[Sciatic]

The only ones who can challenge Brand are Van Empel and Pieterse. Van Empel beats her on pure power, and Pieterse on technique. Neither of them are racing, so then it becomes a walk in the park for Brand.

At least Pieterse will return in Namur. She often needs a little time to get back in the groove though. Van Empel... we can only hope she returns to racing at all, never mind winning.

Not quite the same level as those you mentioned, but Van Androoj made a big jump in performance (3rd) Sunday from her 1st race (well back in the standings) the previous weekend. If she keeps improving she might at least make the racing more competitive