Race Thread

[Armchair Cyclist]

As ever with British CX, what is after him? There isn't loads of talent following him...and for the British women take Zoe out, and the rest are nowhere.......

That's not British CX, that's any country other than Belgium and Netherlands.
Who is following Orts, Kuhn, Boros, Strohmeyer or Konwa? Where is French, Italian or German CX at all* ?

The second GB rider (Mein) is higher UCI ranked than the second from any country other than Belgium and Netherlands, but if he were Belgian/Dutch with the same results, he would be ranked 11th/6th nationally.

There is maybe a bit more strength in depth in the women's ranks, but the best second highest of any nation other than Dutch is Brouwers, but she has 8 Dutch above her.

* in elites, plenty of younger riders
(positions from First Cycling reporting of UCI standings)

 

[Sciatic]

That's not British CX, that's any country other than Belgium and Netherlands.
Who is following Orts, Kuhn, Boros, Strohmeyer or Konwa? Where is French, Italian or German CX at all* ?

The second GB rider (Mein) is higher UCI ranked than the second from any country other than Belgium and Netherlands, but if he were Belgian/Dutch with the same results, he would be ranked 11th/6th nationally.

There is maybe a bit more strength in depth in the women's ranks, but the best second highest of any nation other than Dutch is Brouwers, but she has 8 Dutch above her.

* in elites, plenty of younger riders
(positions from First Cycling reporting of UCI standings)

I understand your overall point, but will mention that French women finished 2nd, 8th, 14th, and 16th yesterday.

 

[ChewbaccaDefense]

WVA race calendar:

20/12 WC Antwerpen
22/12 X2O Hofstade
23/12 SP Heusden-Zolder
28/12 WC Dendermonde
29/12 X2O Loenhout
02/01 Exact Cross Mol
04/01 WC Zonhoven
11/01 Belgian Nationals

5 head-to-heads with MVDP: Antwerpen, Hofstade, Loenhout, Mol, Zonhoven.

Neither doing Diegem

 

[Wyndbrook]

Starting to get info on riders not going to Sardinia.
Nys, van der Haar, Mason and van Heijden have stated they are not riding.
Brand is, but no news on van Empel, not listed in Dutch selection.

 

[Axel Hangleck]

One has to feel for World Cup organisers, especially the non 'local' events. Loads of non travellers.......Saying that, having an event on Sardinia always seemed strange. What about the north of Italy, or Italian Alps......

 

[jono]

Nys skipping Terralba makes MVDP the favourite to win the WC overall, if he wasn't already.

 

[awavey]

As ever with British CX, what is after him? There isn't loads of talent following him...and for the British women take Zoe out, and the rest are nowhere.......

I'm sure the riders & talent are still there, but...the CX scene (as with alot of British cycling race formats) is barely functioning in the UK anymore. I'm not even seeing the local leagues post their races/updates, let alone the national series anymore. And BC wonder why they're membership rates are tanking.

 

[awavey]

That's not British CX, that's any country other than Belgium and Netherlands.
Who is following Orts, Kuhn, Boros, Strohmeyer or Konwa? Where is French, Italian or German CX at all* ?

The second GB rider (Mein) is higher UCI ranked than the second from any country other than Belgium and Netherlands, but if he were Belgian/Dutch with the same results, he would be ranked 11th/6th nationally.

There is maybe a bit more strength in depth in the women's ranks, but the best second highest of any nation other than Dutch is Brouwers, but she has 8 Dutch above her.

* in elites, plenty of younger riders
(positions from First Cycling reporting of UCI standings)

British CX was a thing though, maybe still not as big as Belgium or the Netherlands, but the local leagues were big, the national series were considered important, riders would travel around the UK to race in them and winning it was considered good for pro racing career moves forward, the national championships even briefly occasionally had live tv coverage. All of that is gone now. BC didnt even send the national champion to the CX world's last year

And BC haven't even updated their CX national champions page since 2024.

 

[Armchair Cyclist]

British CX was a thing though, maybe still not as big as Belgium or the Netherlands, but the local leagues were big, the national series were considered important, riders would travel around the UK to race in them and winning it was considered good for pro racing career moves forward, the national championships even briefly occasionally had live tv coverage. All of that is gone now. BC didnt even send the national champion to the CX world's last year

And BC haven't even updated their CX national champions page since 2024.

If Pidcock were still riding cx, you'd have a top level, and regular contended for at least strong top ten placing, and a solid top 30 guy: is that historically poor? Has there frequently been more than 2 British riders in the top 25 of the rankings? (genuine questions: I've really only got into cyclocross in the last 6 years or so)

 

[Wyndbrook]

If Pidcock were still riding cx, you'd have a top level, and regular contended for at least strong top ten placing, and a solid top 30 guy: is that historically poor? Has there frequently been more than 2 British riders in the top 25 of the rankings? (genuine questions: I've really only got into cyclocross in the last 6 years or so)

No. Pidcock and Mason are the only male riders to either have, or do race consistantly at or near the front. Pidcock is the only rider to medal at a senior worlds.
Historically there have been some bright spots, mainly in the amateur ranks.
Louise Robinson and Helen Wyman have both medalled at senior womens worlds.
Helen was twice European champion and along with Nickki Brammier (Harris) were world cup and worlds contenders. I believe Evie Richards is the only woman to win a world cup race, hopefully Zoe will add her name to the short list.

 

[awavey]

If Pidcock were still riding cx, you'd have a top level, and regular contended for at least strong top ten placing, and a solid top 30 guy: is that historically poor? Has there frequently been more than 2 British riders in the top 25 of the rankings? (genuine questions: I've really only got into cyclocross in the last 6 years or so)

well no probably not, Ian Field, now commenting for Discovery on CX was probably the last pre Pidcock British rider pushing into the rankings on the mens side, but more like a top 30-40ish rider overall. Probably wasnt a lack of ability, more a lack of funding to spend the time to train and race properly.

and then you had Helen Wyman and Nikki Brammeier on the womens.

but both Hannah Barnes and Alice Barnes won the British junior nationals titles, Evie Richards of course 2 x U23 world champion, though she seems to have swapped to MTB permanently now.

Cat Ferguson & Imogen Woolf are both skipping CX now.

as I say yes Dutch/Belgian CX is on another level, always has been, but the British CX scene did exist as a thing and it very much isnt anymore and declining. So Cam Mason may well be the last Brit left racing this stuff at world cup level as I dont see any riders coming through it anymore, and it will become even more niche part of cycling than it already is.

 

[jono]

as I say yes Dutch/Belgian CX is on another level, always has been, but the British CX scene did exist as a thing and it very much isnt anymore and declining. So Cam Mason may well be the last Brit left racing this stuff at world cup level as I dont see any riders coming through it anymore, and it will become even more niche part of cycling than it already is.

The big hope for amateur CX outside of the sport's heartland is that everyone who is riding gravel bikes will soon realize how much riding in the hot sun, mostly alone, for 5 or 6 hours kind of sucks. But riding the same bike, maybe with some different tires, in a park while trying to beat some friends, and drink some beers, is pretty fun.

Who knows, it might work.

 

[Wyndbrook]

Not sure I woud agree that British cyclocross is declining. Maybe some local leagues have seen a reduction from three or four years ago, but overall numbers are holding up.
Accepting it was a joint promotion of two leagues, but I spectated at recent event where there were around 300 racing across all classes.

 

[Barkintheeye]

That's not British CX, that's any country other than Belgium and Netherlands.
Who is following Orts, Kuhn, Boros, Strohmeyer or Konwa? Where is French, Italian or German CX at all* ?

The second GB rider (Mein) is higher UCI ranked than the second from any country other than Belgium and Netherlands, but if he were Belgian/Dutch with the same results, he would be ranked 11th/6th nationally.

There is maybe a bit more strength in depth in the women's ranks, but the best second highest of any nation other than Dutch is Brouwers, but she has 8 Dutch above her.

* in elites, plenty of younger riders
(positions from First Cycling reporting of UCI standings)

Italy seems to produce a good number of top riders in the junior ranks but these riders look to disappear when they reach U23/Elite. All to the road teams?

 

[Barkintheeye]

The big hope for amateur CX outside of the sport's heartland is that everyone who is riding gravel bikes will soon realize how much riding in the hot sun, mostly alone, for 5 or 6 hours kind of sucks. But riding the same bike, maybe with some different tires, in a park while trying to beat some friends, and drink some beers, is pretty fun.

Who knows, it might work.

I’d agree with you but the flow seems to be the opposite. Some CX riders are switching to gravel, less technical, more endurance, less fuzz with equipment and more events with more riders and competition seem to drive the popularity from CX towards gravel. Unfortunately I don’t see any roadies that try gravel continuing over to CX. I’m happy to be wrong here but this is what I’m seeing over the last years

 

[awavey]

Not sure I woud agree that British cyclocross is declining. Maybe some local leagues have seen a reduction from three or four years ago, but overall numbers are holding up.
Accepting it was a joint promotion of two leagues, but I spectated at recent event where there were around 300 racing across all classes.

It might be going back to the early noughties but some local leagues could field that many riders in just one race.

Thats why it feels to me at least its been in decline for a while, we might have hit the core support left now so its not completely disappearing rapidly, but its not growing and probably not sustainable as people age out of the racing scene but arent replaced by the juniors growing into it

 

[awavey]

The big hope for amateur CX outside of the sport's heartland is that everyone who is riding gravel bikes will soon realize how much riding in the hot sun, mostly alone, for 5 or 6 hours kind of sucks. But riding the same bike, maybe with some different tires, in a park while trying to beat some friends, and drink some beers, is pretty fun.

Who knows, it might work.

lost count of the number of "gravel" events ive been to where you might just as well have been on a MTB, the British championships have already been cancelled due to cost/lack of sponsors i think (there might be more to it, ie awkward land owners etc etc but haven't had chance to research it yet)

 

[jono]

lost count of the number of "gravel" events ive been to where you might just as well have been on a MTB, the British championships have already been cancelled due to cost/lack of sponsors i think (there might be more to it, ie awkward land owners etc etc but haven't had chance to research it yet)

I haven't encountered that in my local scene. North America, and especially the Great Plains where I reside, has no shortage of proper gravel roads with minimal traffic.

The main difference I see between people's attitudes towards both sports (speaking strictly about amateurs and casuals here) is that in cyclocross there is simply no getting around the fact that you are in a race. You will pass others and/or be passed and the competitive emotions surrounding that will bubble up. Some like this, many don't. For a good chunk of the field in a gravel event, participants treat it much more like a marathon (or half/10k/choose your distance). It is about completing the distance, if you're lucky riding with some friends, and feeling good about yourself afterwards, with only a few truly racing on the pointy end. Frankly, most people simply aren't fit enough to be actually racing for 4+ hours.

 

[Hugh Januss]

I haven't encountered that in my local scene. North America, and especially the Great Plains where I reside, has no shortage of proper gravel roads with minimal traffic.

The main difference I see between people's attitudes towards both sports (speaking strictly about amateurs and casuals here) is that in cyclocross there is simply no getting around the fact that you are in a race. You will pass others and/or be passed and the competitive emotions surrounding that will bubble up. Some like this, many don't. For a good chunk of the field in a gravel event, participants treat it much more like a marathon (or half/10k/choose your distance). It is about completing the distance, if you're lucky riding with some friends, and feeling good about yourself afterwards, with only a few truly racing on the pointy end. Frankly, most people simply aren't fit enough to be actually racing for 4+ hours.

^^^This compared to gravel cyclocross is intense and sometimes tight and there are people watching and judging (or at least it feels like they are). Gravel attracts the cyclist version of the thousands of people who are "runners" because they paid 80-100 bucks to plod around a 10K race course at about half the pace of the front runners. They bring their love of "competing" without intensive training and their $100 entry fees in droves to the new sport of gravel which then turns around and uses part of those entry fees to attract all the top elite crossers away with more enticing payouts. Suddenly cross reverts to being the tiny little fringe sport that it was 20 years ago, except that Parks Departments have gotten used to charging a couple grand for exclusive access for a weekend instead of a couple hundred like they were asking 10 years ago. You can't pay for a park and set up a course and break even on expenses unless you get at least 200-250 entries. A cross course requires lots more preparation than telling a thousand racers "go, but remember to follow all traffic laws when you're on the road and when you get to the dirt be wary of cows and tractors".

 

[awavey]

I haven't encountered that in my local scene. North America, and especially the Great Plains where I reside, has no shortage of proper gravel roads with minimal traffic.

and Id much rather be riding your proper gravel roads than what they claim is often gravel in the UK, we do have proper some gravel roads, but what they arrange as gravel rides in the UK is basically a mix between CX & MTB that we get.

there was one sportive I did claimed to be a road/gravel mix, which sounds great, the road bits were fine, the gravel bits were cycling around the local forest trails, which included one bit which was literally like someone had just dumped 1000s of bricks over 100m, not laid I mean literally dumped so they were all at the irregular angles at which they fell, how you were supposed to ride that without anything other than a fat wheel bike I do not know. but they claimed it was a gravel course.

 

[Sciatic]

^^^This compared to gravel cyclocross is intense and sometimes tight and there are people watching and judging (or at least it feels like they are). Gravel attracts the cyclist version of the thousands of people who are "runners" because they paid 80-100 bucks to plod around a 10K race course at about half the pace of the front runners. They bring their love of "competing" without intensive training and their $100 entry fees in droves to the new sport of gravel which then turns around and uses part of those entry fees to attract all the top elite crossers away with more enticing payouts. Suddenly cross reverts to being the tiny little fringe sport that it was 20 years ago, except that Parks Departments have gotten used to charging a couple grand for exclusive access for a weekend instead of a couple hundred like they were asking 10 years ago. You can't pay for a park and set up a course and break even on expenses unless you get at least 200-250 entries. A cross course requires lots more preparation than telling a thousand racers "go, but remember to follow all traffic laws when you're on the road and when you get to the dirt be wary of cows and tractors".

all of which is unfortunate from a fan's/spectator's perspective (I'm not at all speaking of the participant's experience) because cross racing is great viewing-whether in person or on a screen. In much of the U.S., where we don't have much in the way of real road races, watching cross is far more interesting than urban crits even when the latter draws a higher-level field.

 

[RedheadDane]

Uhm... just to be clear, the 52 podiums in a row record Brand can beat... that's races, right? Not World Cups...

 

[pastronef]

crowds not that big in Sardinia

 

[RedheadDane]

Nice post-race bath.

 

[pastronef]

what a great race WITHOUT Mathieu and Wout.