Race Thread

[jmdirt]

You’ve clearly not dislocated a shoulder or elbow. It’s a paralyzing type of pain, not like anything else. On the plus side if that’s the problem he should be able to start rehab immediately.

I'll avoid posting my injury list, but you should be careful with statements like "You've clearly not..." when you don't actually know.

I'll stick with my original assertion that his reaction was a bit much.

Maybe someone can shed some light on the actual injury, but I had not read anything about a dislocation until your post (and you did say "IF"). The only thing that I could find was a picture of him smiling, wearing a sling saying "no fractures".

EDIT: McCrossan says "bruising", but I'd still like to hear more info...

 

[Flamin]

You said very negligible. But it seems you meant "standard cross technique". And yes, like most sports, the goal is to become first, which means gaining time in every possible way. The fact that they crash, means there is risk, and if there is risk, you need... technique.

No, I stand by that technique is (very) negligible for the result on a course like this. That's not the same as "you don't need to know how to ride a bike", since, you know, we are talking about a race between pros.

I've yet to hear the first argument or comment from a rider that this race wasn't about raw power and not much else.

 

[lemon cheese cake]

World Cup Hulst is in a different location due to Covid and is taking place at Perkpolder next to the Schelde Estuary rather than the standard course of the last few seasons around the city ramparts. Looks quite open and exposed so could be very windy and might be pretty muddy again if the weather continues to be quite wet over the next few days.

 

[Axel Hangleck]

No, I stand by that technique is (very) negligible for the result on a course like this. That's not the same as "you don't need to know how to ride a bike", since, you know, we are talking about a race between pros.

I've yet to hear the first argument or comment from a rider that this race wasn't about raw power and not much else.

I get the impression people view CX through road cycling eyes. CX is an off road sport - normally requiring technical skills; this was a farmers field mudbath requiring raw power and decent running. I'm all for course variety, I don't have an issue with muddy races providing there are technical parts, climbs, descents, etc This had nothing. For a club/national race it would be okay - for an Elite World Cup race? Hmm, debatable......

 

[Barkintheeye]

I get the impression people view CX through road cycling eyes. CX is an off road sport - normally requiring technical skills; this was a farmers field mudbath requiring raw power and decent running. I'm all for course variety, I don't have an issue with muddy races providing there are technical parts, climbs, descents, etc This had nothing. For a club/national race it would be okay - for an Elite World Cup race? Hmm, debatable......

I tend to agree. If this was a common thing in the world cup it wouldn’t be much fun neither for the viewers nor for the riders.

However in this case it was kind of an odd one and not really meant to be as it was. It could have been cancelled but it was not. With somewhat better/drier conditions it would probably have provided a good fight between the main contenders.

Completely dry the Dendermonde course is likely to have been quite a dull spectacle as my reading of the course was that it would have been way too easy for the pros - somewhat like Pontchataeu a couple of years back. It is not very inspiring with a CX race playing out like a road GP on grass with a bunch sprint at the end but that’s just my preference. Some viewers and riders will surely appreciate that too.

 

[Zoef-Lightning]

It's so obvious. Very strange that some "connoisseurs" don't realise that riding and running in muddy grass and going downhill on a muddy stretch also requires skills. And very strange (or not ?) that van der Poel supporters only consider technical courses with artificial short curves and parkrides to be fully fledged. Untill 25 years ago stretches were more natural, depending on weather conditions. Two or three times a year, there were such (extreme) mud crosses. And half of the crosses were moderate muddy. With natural obstacles and ditches that need to be jumped over. And not glorified roadraces with bars to jump over.

 

[Flamin]

It's so obvious. Very strange that some "connoisseurs" don't realise that riding and running in muddy grass and going downhill on a muddy stretch also requires skills. And very strange (or not ?) that van der Poel supporters only consider technical courses with artificial short curves and parkrides to be fully fledged. Untill 25 years ago stretches were more natural, depending on weather conditions. Two or three times a year, there were such (extreme) mud crosses. And half of the crosses were moderate muddy. With natural obstacles and ditches that need to be jumped over. And not glorified roadraces with bars to jump over.

Seriously? Sigh. Comprehensive reading can be difficult sometimes, apparently. Again, the technique vs raw power ratio is just very small on a course like this.

Compare it to climbing the Zoncolan if you will. Aerodynamics, tactics etc. simply become less relevant compared to power output than when you climb on 5% ramps. That doesn't mean it's completely irrelevant.

 

[Zams]

Seriously? Sigh. Comprehensive reading can be difficult sometimes, apparently. Again, the technique vs raw power ratio is just very small on a course like this.

Compare it to climbing the Zoncolan if you will. Aerodynamics, tactics etc. simply become less relevant compared to power output than when you climb on 5% ramps. That doesn't mean it's completely irrelevant.

Sligtly off topic. Here is Alan Marangoni climbing the Zoncolan on a graziella bike (its a foldable bike for kids)

 

[Ripper]

Having raced cross in mud and dry, on twisty courses and on somewhat more 'field' courses, and watching parts of yesterday's race, I would say technique was still very much required, certainly along with steady power output. It's a different technique, but slippin' and slidin' without falling or doing an endo still requires skills, just necessarily the same skills as a split second body movement while maintaining speed through a 90 or 180 turn on hardpack or grass, or surfing through sand.

The course was boring in design concept, no doubt. It looks like it was 'plan c' so to speak, and given how many races have been cancelled, I don't think the racers should complain too terribly loudly. I think it would make sense to point out the limitations of the course while acknowledging what had been done to make the race happen, working towards future improvements.

There have been a lot of what are basically dirt crits as well, where things are much more together and a great deal of focus is about taking corners and sudden accelerations. Those can also be boring to watch.

 

[Flamin]

Dendermonde was far from slippery. It was deep mud, and the course was flat, so no tricky descents either. Slippery comes from a hard base layer with a wet/muddy surface. Like Herentals on Wednesday.

 

[Ripper]

Dendermonde was far from slippery. It was deep mud, and the course was flat, so no tricky descents either. Slippery comes from a hard base layer with a wet/muddy surface. Like Herentals on Wednesday.

We could debate, but I don't think it would make a difference in our views I agree it was certainly not like Herentals, which was quite undulating and slick ... again a very different parcours. In the WC race there was a lot of deep mud, which necessitates power, but also technique. And yes, there were sections where some folks were simply getting stuck. In that way it was a power course, similar to how some courses are climber's courses.

It was boring in overall design, but as a plan c, and with the other option of cancelling, I don't see complaining too much to be terribly helpful (thinking of the racers here). Likely some stuff going on in the background to make the complaints more vocal, but I still think unnecessary at this stage.

All this said, I am extremely happy to see races happening wherever I can. So much of the MTB season was a complete wipe out, and so much of life has been turned upside down.

 

[Flamin]

We could debate, but I don't think it would make a difference in our views I agree it was certainly not like Herentals, which was quite undulating and slick ... again a very different parcours. In the WC race there was a lot of deep mud, which necessitates power, but also technique. And yes, there were sections where some folks were simply getting stuck. In that way it was a power course, similar to how some courses are climber's courses.

It was boring in overall design, but as a plan c, and with the other option of cancelling, I don't see complaining too much to be terribly helpful (thinking of the racers here). Likely some stuff going on in the background to make the complaints more vocal, but I still think unnecessary at this stage.

All this said, I am extremely happy to see races happening wherever I can. So much of the MTB season was a complete wipe out, and so much of life has been turned upside down.

Are you talking about last year's WC? Then I must have seen a different race as I didn't see that deep mud you're talking about that one was definitely a very different underground than Dendermonde.

 

[Ripper]

Are you talking about last year's WC? Then I must have seen a different race as I didn't see that deep mud you're talking about that one was definitely a very different underground than Dendermonde.

In this context WC was World Cup rather than World Champs

 

[jmdirt]

It was good to see a USAer on the box again!

 

[Sciatic]

It was good to see a USAer on the box again!

I’m enjoying Clara Honsinger’s climb toward the (multiple) podium this year, after getting to see her win the 2019 U.S. cross nationals, which was held just down the road from Seattle. On a muddy course, of course. I don’t automatically root for U.S. riders but I do tend to follow the folks from the Pacific NW, especially if I’ve seen them on the local scene.

 

[jmdirt]

I’m enjoying Clara Honsinger’s climb toward the (multiple) podium this year, after getting to see her win the 2019 U.S. cross nationals, which was held just down the road from Seattle. On a muddy course, of course. I don’t automatically root for U.S. riders but I do tend to follow the folks from the Pacific NW, especially if I’ve seen them on the local scene.

Back in the day I did the a 'coss race near Sea-Tac. Bart Bowen and the McCormack brothers put on a clinic that only Dale Knap was able rise to. I think they played that scenario again at Nats the next year.

When I had connections to the bike race world I really cheered for them when they did well in the bigs, but I've always been a USA homer in general.

 

[Flamin]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1343656867273314308

View: https://twitter.com/vrdaam/status/1343656867273314308


Dendermonde broke a TV viewer record in Flanders, excluding the national and World championships. Both the men and women's race. Previous record dates from Diegem 2013.

 

[Axel Hangleck]

Cyclocross race gets great TV figures in Flanders; no ***, Sherlock......

Christmas Sunday, nothing else on, you can't go out, so you watch some CX on the TV.

 

[Flamin]

Cyclocross race gets great TV figures in Flanders; no ***, Sherlock......

Christmas Sunday, nothing else on, you can't go out, so you watch some CX on the TV.

Oh, okay.

It's a record, hence it's 'news'. Sure it's not such a major surprise due to covid. Still, in case some were wondering, cx is still very popular in the post-Nys era.

 

[Axel Hangleck]

I'd be more interested what the figures are worldwide; it was a 'World' Cup race.....
I find CX is still far too insular; I really don't care what the TV figures for Flanders are. The sport isn't moving on if all they care about is what happens in Flanders.

 

[RedheadDane]

Well, that Vas dominant!

 

[Axel Hangleck]

She's another multi talent; silver medal in the U23 MTB World Championships, ahead of Alvarado on a course with quite a bit of climbing.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

I'd be more interested what the figures are worldwide; it was a 'World' Cup race.....
I find CX is still far too insular; I really don't care what the TV figures for Flanders are. The sport isn't moving on if all they care about is what happens in Flanders.

What an oblivious comment. Without Flanders, there would be no CX anymore, and it has everything to do with IOC making MTB an Olympic discipline in '96, while dismissing CX each and every time. Lobbying gets you a long way. Look at the shift in nationalities 5-10 years before, and 5-10 years after '96. Going from a varied line-up with big name winners coming from Italy, Germany, Austria, Czechia, Belgium, Netherlands, Luxembourg etc. To a strictly Duch/Belgian affair. And now people complain it's too insular and the sport isn't moving on, because they only care what happens in Flanders.
L. O. L.

 

[Axel Hangleck]

What an oblivious comment. Without Flanders, there would be no CX anymore, and it has everything to do with IOC making MTB an Olympic discipline in '96, while dismissing CX each and every time.

You keep repeating this - and there is is some truth - however only XC is Olympic. DH, Enduro are massive worldwide yet they don't have any olympics.
CX has been around since early 20th century - and in the main is still a niche discipline of cycling. MTB of all disciplines came about mid 70's - and has quickly grown, and XC has gained olympic status.
My worry for CX is the new 'gravel' racing scene - again, another US 'invention' which seems to have more 'influence' than CX which, is, quite a traditional sport.
The two pieces Wielerflits did on CX were very good, with one problem; they didn't interview anybody from outside Flanders - and some of the answers showed how unaware they are of the issues.
I want a World Cup/ World Championship in the UK - putting one on is another matter; virtually all of the televised CX races are behind a paywall. There's one issue immediately.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Some truth? Haha.

Riding on gravel or enduro is not in the slightest to be compared to CX. With some basic skills, anybody can start riding on gravel recreationally. This is completely different for a competitive sport like CX which is riding the same laps every time and in that sense not very imaginative for a recreational rider. It is a competitive sport that is not about the scenery, or about "feeling free" or the feeling you're making an epic trip. Those sports are accessible, CX is too hard and repetitive to attract a large practicing userbase which seems to be key in countries like the US. They tried getting CX, even with the silly and demeaning "stripdancer money grab" gimmick to work in the US, it simply didn't work.

If the sport were to be made Olympic, you would get athletes from around the world again, especially now with Wout and Mathieu. And it has very little to do with "thinking what people like in Flanders" when it comes to track design. Unless you are talking about completely ripping the essence of what makes CX out, dumb it down, so that every Mary *** & Jane can also start riding CX. So yes, MTB becoming an Olympic sport has been a huge burden on CX, with a lot of professional athletes migrating to a suddenly more recognized sport, which shares many traits from a competitive point of view.