Radioshack Crying after Lombardia snub

[thehog]

Who would you consider necessary for it to be the "A" team?

If Lance is riding then its the A team.

 

[Cobblestoned]

1. RS won't ride Lombardy, because blabla, hahaha---->RS starts at Lombardy

2.If they send bumpf then the entire effort will be a waste of time. They better send the A-team. ------> RS sends a good squad to Lombardy considering all aspects -----> look, xxx and yyy is missing, what a waste of time hahaha.
They better win this race, otherwise it's a waste of time. ----->RS gets 2nd------>look, what a waste of time hahaha, poor other teams, wha wha bla

RS/Lombardy-Script is already carved out of stone.
How boring - like a bad soapopera.

 

[Barrus]

Is there any rumour or indication which teams will start with fewer riders, or when this will be announced. I would like to see their reactions and hope that they'll do something about it.

God, I'm getting more and more annoyed with this and RS/UCI, the more I think about it.

 

[kurtinsc]

If Lance is riding then its the A team.

Wow.

So any team not sending their most famous rider to a race in your eyes is sending a "B" team... or does that only apply to Radioshack?

 

[flicker]

Wow.

So any team not sending their most famous rider to a race in your eyes is sending a "B" team... or does that only apply to Radioshack?

Basicly if RS does not send the riders the haters chose it is yet again another radioshack fail/face-palm. The team the haters want to see is no team, to any race in the US or Europe.
Maybe a race in Tibet or Guiena/ The Tour of Jonestown the haters would like to see RS in.

 

[Barrus]

Look Flicker, I have been called a hater many times by you and yours. But I will clearly state that at this race I do not want to see the squad of Radioshack. Why, you might ask. Because firstly the organisers clearly did not want them their. But second and most importantly that this creates a situation in which larger teams get an even bigger bonus over the smaller teams. Due to the inclusion of RS other teams now need to ride with a smaller squad, something that goes completely against the rules themselves, and especially goes against the intent and the spirit of the rules and hell, even the entire sport.

And Bruyneel, didn't he say he would fight for the rights of all the teams and all the riders. Where is his outcry over this clear disruption of competition for many teams and many riders? Where is the self-appointed messiah of cycling? Where are his words now, where is his contempt over this?

 

[thehog]

Wow.

So any team not sending their most famous rider to a race in your eyes is sending a "B" team... or does that only apply to Radioshack?

I note you said "most famous" and not "best". Is that what is it now - A popularity contest?

I do hope they wear their 28 jerseys for this big event or at least their "Free Lance" armbands.

 

[kurtinsc]

I note you said "most famous" and not "best". Is that what is it now - A popularity contest?

I do hope they wear their 28 jerseys for this big event or at least their "Free Lance" armbands.

Well, you said Lance had to be there for RS to send their "A" team.

He's clearly not their best rider, especially for a race like this. Horner and Brajkovic are the guys who have done something in hilly 1-day races in the last 5 years, not Lance.

If not "most famous", then what makes Lance necessary for RS to send an "A" team?

I expect them to send Horner, Brajkovic, maybe Kloden or Leipheimer, maybe Machado and Zubeldia and the rest being support guys. To me... this WOULD be the RS "A" team for a race like this... but you indicated that without Lance it wouldn't me.

I guess that's where I'm struggling... everyone keeps saying that Radioshack is sending substandard teams to events... but nobody seems to indicate what they SHOULD be sending to these races.

If you want to say their "A" team sucks... that's fine. But they do seem to be sending their "A" teams to big races for the most part this season.

 

[pedaling squares]

I do hope they wear their 28 jerseys for this big event or at least their "Free Lance" armbands.

Maybe the chalkbot will print some messages of support from Candy, Simeoni, Betsy, and others from the lancesupport site.

Back on topic, this is a real handicap to the teams who perhaps need support the most. For those small teams, their riders, and sponsors, participating in a monument is a big deal. Seasonal goals can be based on such things. Imagine getting the nod and then being told to bring 25% less of your team. 25% less support for your leader, 25% less moving advertisements for your sponsors, but hey you save one hotel room per night. Ouch.

 

[kurtinsc]

Look Flicker, I have been called a hater many times by you and yours. But I will clearly state that at this race I do not want to see the squad of Radioshack. Why, you might ask. Because firstly the organisers clearly did not want them their. But second and most importantly that this creates a situation in which larger teams get an even bigger bonus over the smaller teams. Due to the inclusion of RS other teams now need to ride with a smaller squad, something that goes completely against the rules themselves, and especially goes against the intent and the spirit of the rules and hell, even the entire sport.

And Bruyneel, didn't he say he would fight for the rights of all the teams and all the riders. Where is his outcry over this clear disruption of competition for many teams and many riders? Where is the self-appointed messiah of cycling? Where are his words now, where is his contempt over this?

That really wasn't RS's doing. They wanted in, and apparently had enough evidence for the CAS case to make RCS worried. The UCI was the one who set the terms allowing Lombardia to go to 26 teams... that being the 200 rider limit had to be met.

Blame the UCI for not relaxing that rule, and blame RCS for taking riders from the small teams rather then saying each team had to ride with 7. Radioshack were just using the courts to fight for a spot they apparently were promised. Other teams have done that with races in the past.

 

[flicker]

Look Flicker, I have been called a hater many times by you and yours. But I will clearly state that at this race I do not want to see the squad of Radioshack. Why, you might ask. Because firstly the organisers clearly did not want them their. But second and most importantly that this creates a situation in which larger teams get an even bigger bonus over the smaller teams. Due to the inclusion of RS other teams now need to ride with a smaller squad, something that goes completely against the rules themselves, and especially goes against the intent and the spirit of the rules and hell, even the entire sport.

And Bruyneel, didn't he say he would fight for the rights of all the teams and all the riders. Where is his outcry over this clear disruption of competition for many teams and many riders? Where is the self-appointed messiah of cycling? Where are his words now, where is his contempt over this?

Sorry I think the organisers were wrong to exclude the Shack. I believe they had no legitimate reason to exclude the shack. My opinion of those who are the organizers of the Italian events and the Italian DS in general is not positive. That goes back to Merckx at the Giro and Molteni Sausage and runs through to those who promoted Rico/Sella and the Italian rider Piepoli. I think the Italian cycling coni may also be jaded. Different rules for different countries.Sorry clinic material there. If the shack has proper license and their riders are ready to race let them race. To much BS politicing with the Spaniards and the Italians. Both beautiful cultures but in a lot of ways corrupted. That is purely MY opinion. That may also be a prejuidiced opinion also because my friends are Dalmation and I have listened to their opinions also.

 

[Barrus]

That really wasn't RS's doing. They wanted in, and apparently had enough evidence for the CAS case to make RCS worried. The UCI was the one who set the terms allowing Lombardia to go to 26 teams... that being the 200 rider limit had to be met.

Blame the UCI for not relaxing that rule, and blame RCS for taking riders from the small teams rather then saying each team had to ride with 7. Radioshack were just using the courts to fight for a spot they apparently were promised. Other teams have done that with races in the past.

There is currently too little known to say it wasn't due to the UCI that it were the smaller groups needed to withdraw riders, perhaps this was the only way the UCI would allow 26 teams. Also we do not know if RS had enough evidence to make RCS worried, they certainly have enough money to make it a long drawn out case.

But really that is not the main issue I have with RS. I still think they should not be in this race, as those that make the race and ensure its existence did not want them their. Also, you cannot deny that it is due to the inclusion of RS that other teams need to ride with fewer riders, another argument why I don't want them their.

But the problem I have with RS is Bruyneel and his earlier faux pas outcry of riders rights, yet his compelte silence now.

@ Flicker, lets not go into clinic material here, but yeah, it appears to be that there are different rules for different people (not just countries)

 

[hrotha]

About that agreement RadioShack allegedly had with RCS... Is it confirmed? What do we know about it? Bruyneel doesn't mention it explicitly in his vomit-inducing blog post:

Our participation was previously confirmed in writing by the organizers, RCS Sport, and then later to see in the press that our name was missing from the list was shocking. It's now in the hands of the Court of Arbitration for Sport.

http://johanbruyneel.com/blog.html

 

[flicker]

Nothing about clinic, only about national and international politics in sports. One of the main reasons I cannot stand the Olympics anymore. You could see it in the battle royal coni versus the Spaniards with valv-piti. Not clinic material but politics. I just hate that/call me a hater now.

 

[Barrus]

But flicker, aren't you of the opinion that race organizers should have the right to invite or not invite any team they want to, even if they have a proper license. A race cannot allow everyone. There are so many teams with proper licenses, why not take them all in a race? Where do you draw the line?

Also you yourself said clinic material

 

[Mellow Velo]

Look Flicker, I have been called a hater many times by you and yours. But I will clearly state that at this race I do not want to see the squad of Radioshack. Why, you might ask. Because firstly the organisers clearly did not want them their. But second and most importantly that this creates a situation in which larger teams get an even bigger bonus over the smaller teams. Due to the inclusion of RS other teams now need to ride with a smaller squad, something that goes completely against the rules themselves, and especially goes against the intent and the spirit of the rules and hell, even the entire sport.

Back on topic, this is a real handicap to the teams who perhaps need support the most. For those small teams, their riders, and sponsors, participating in a monument is a big deal. Seasonal goals can be based on such things. Imagine getting the nod and then being told to bring 25% less of your team. 25% less support for your leader, 25% less moving advertisements for your sponsors, but hey you save one hotel room per night. Ouch.

Quite frankly, I wouldn't waste the skin of my typing fingers to try and engage Flicker in anything remotely resembling a serious debate. He clearly thinks that the Shack should be there by entitlement and that the RCS don't have the right to select who the want.


You have both pinpointed what concerns me the most, with this decision to cull riders from the "smallest teams". Handicapping the underdogs seems to me to be the least satisfactory solution.
As to who they are, three spring readily to mind:
Carmiooro NGC
Colnago – CSF Inox
ISD – Neri

It is possible that the French ex-PT teams (thanks again to Pat) may also get chopped down, or that Aqua e Sapone are made to suffer.

What would seem to be a concessionary agreement, should be that Radio Shack, having been allowed to race, do so with six riders.

Of course, most of us would already agree, that this is hardly likely to be the case.
Radio Shack share their fan's sense of entitlement, but no sense of concession.
Others, less privileged, will be made to foot their bill.

 

[flicker]

But flicker, aren't you of the opinion that race organizers should have the right to invite or not invite any team they want to, even if they have a proper license. A race cannot allow everyone. There are so many teams with proper licenses, why not take them all in a race? Where do you draw the line?

Also you yourself said clinic material

I do not know Barrus. You are probably more knowledgable on the subject of who is worthy to race and who isn't.

Punishing the Shack and deleting them from Vuelta, well I think it is BS since they would have been competitive. I think the way Horner has ridden in Lombardia in the past the organizers should have included the Shack first thing in Lombardy Plus if the Shack put some younger riders in there like Bushe and their admitadely weaker classics guys I thought the shack had something to add there in Northern Italy.

 

[Cobblestoned]

Look Flicker, I have been called a hater many times by you and yours. But I will clearly state that at this race I do not want to see the squad of Radioshack. Why, you might ask. Because firstly the organisers clearly did not want them their. But second and most importantly that this creates a situation in which larger teams get an even bigger bonus over the smaller teams. Due to the inclusion of RS other teams now need to ride with a smaller squad, something that goes completely against the rules themselves, and especially goes against the intent and the spirit of the rules and hell, even the entire sport.

And Bruyneel, didn't he say he would fight for the rights of all the teams and all the riders. Where is his outcry over this clear disruption of competition for many teams and many riders? Where is the self-appointed messiah of cycling? Where are his words now, where is his contempt over this?

The news just came out and you are already blaming Johan only a few hours later that he doesn't care about this ?
You have to understand that after such/similar comments you will get something like a haters-mark.
And pleeeeease wait till the startlist is out or this 6-rider/200 starters-rumor is really, really confirmed. I can't find this rumor anywhere else.
Not on german websites, too. And they are really "focused" on Armstrong.
26 teams, 26 teams, 26 teams - nothing else.
They would have been one of the first to mention the poor other teams who have to suffer because of Lord Lance.

About the 200 starters in RCS pressrelease: I suspect some bad communication, translation or they are still woring on that rule. Possible perhaps and it would really surprise me if some temas had to start with 6 riders.
If it will be like this - again> RCS fault and they have to handle it then.
The first to blame here, if there will really be some teams who have to suffer - is RCS Sport
It's hard to accept that, but it's logical. If there wouldn't have been a contract RCS would have just given a s*** about RS. Their mistake. They tried to leave them out like a rookiemanagement - didn't work.
AND: DO you really espect a DS say then: OK, we will stay home because we are like Jesus or Mother Theresa. ???
Would that change anything in the hate-grade to Lance, Johan , RS ? No. 0%. So what do you really want ?


It's also a sad characteristic of haters that they don't care about failing and what they falsely wrote some days ago. They just go on and on.

Confirmed 1000 times and will be like this on this topic, too.

Sorry for using the h-word. You started it.

 

[Cobblestoned]

That really wasn't RS's doing. They wanted in, and apparently had enough evidence for the CAS case to make RCS worried. The UCI was the one who set the terms allowing Lombardia to go to 26 teams... that being the 200 rider limit had to be met.

Blame the UCI for not relaxing that rule, and blame RCS for taking riders from the small teams rather then saying each team had to ride with 7. Radioshack were just using the courts to fight for a spot they apparently were promised. Other teams have done that with races in the past.

+1
Thanks

I hope people will finally read and get your version.
Sadly, I am ignored because of expressing my opinion and often being right. Heavy to accept for some people.
I think I am not always wrong. That's not possible.

 

[thehog]

http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/latest/499512/radioshack-gets-tour-of-lombardy-ride.html

Thanks Hog.

 

[Cobblestoned]

But flicker, aren't you of the opinion that race organizers should have the right to invite or not invite any team they want to, even if they have a proper license. A race cannot allow everyone. There are so many teams with proper licenses, why not take them all in a race? Where do you draw the line?

Also you yourself said clinic material

It's as simple as that - best riders/teams should ride the biggest/best races.

 

[Cobblestoned]

Thanks !

"Zomegnan may have ill feelings towards Bruyneel and Armstrong, who many saw as behind the riders' protest last year when the Giro d'Italia visited Milan."

Posted and published 1000 times - never ever confirmed that Lance was the initiator. Big daddy might have been the one who shared and carried the thoughts to the organizers - they asked him because he was the patron and cares about the peloton and what happens there.

If it really was like that: Are there really people who blame some riders and Armstrong about thinking and caring about riders safety/health ?
This Milan-stage was only the last drop that made the barrel overflow and that wasn't without reasons.
But of course many people forgot that.

Zomegan is crazy.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Thanks !

"Zomegnan may have ill feelings towards Bruyneel and Armstrong, who many saw as behind the riders' protest last year when the Giro d'Italia visited Milan."

Posted and published 1000 times - never ever confirmed that Lance was the initiator. Big daddy might have been the one who shared and carried the thoughts to the organizers - they asked him because he was the patron and cares about the peloton and what happens there.

If it really was like that: Are there really people who blame some riders and Armstrong about thinking and caring about riders safety/health ?
This Milan-stage was only the last drop that made the barrel overflow and that wasn't without reasons.
But of course many people forgot that.

Zomegan is crazy.

Of course you fail to realise that half the peloton went on and actually raced the route in Milan and didn't appear unduly worried.
This decision to allow a 26th team has nothing to do with Lance - so switch off the meter.


If TRS had a valid contract then it should have been honored - but I see someone quoted Bruyneel and he talks about an agreement in January, which TRS broke by not putting forward a team for the Giro.
It seems the UCI wanted to avoid a mess and bent their own rules - at a cost to other teams.
Quite frankly - TRS, RCS and the UCI have made a complete mess of a bad situation.

 

[Cobblestoned]

Of course you fail to realise that half the peloton went on and actually raced the route in Milan and didn't appear unduly worried.
This decision to allow a 26th team has nothing to do with Lance - so sitch of the meter.


If TRS had a valid contract then it should have been honored - but I see someone quoted Bruyneel and he talks about an agreement in January, which TRS broke by putting forward a team for the Giro.
It seems the UCI wanted to avoid a mess and bent their own rules - at a cost to other teams.
Quite frankly - TRS, RCS and the UCI have made a complete mess of a bad situation.

Of course, you failed. I saw the whole peloton stop on the line, and then do the course in Milan with some limitations.
Have you got an exact and credible list of the ca. 80 riders who didn't complain about safety of the course, the cars driving and standing around on the course ?
Ok, we just leave that. You can never make ALL people happy and have the same opinion. Never ever anywhere. It's always the majority that makes a decision. Democracy is a bad solution, but the only solution - a well accepted German politic said one day.

Rest of post - looking for crumbs under the table, just speculation and damage-limitation.
But you are on a good way. Thanks.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

I do not know Barrus. You are probably more knowledgable on the subject of who is worthy to race and who isn't.

Punishing the Shack and deleting them from Vuelta, well I think it is BS since they would have been competitive.

Androni Giocattoli would have been competitive in the Tour, but nobody was crying that they weren't invited.