Radioshack Crying after Lombardia snub

[Cobblestoned]

Androni Giocattoli would have been competitive in the Tour, but nobody was crying that they weren't invited.

And nobody enjoyed it, blamed them and laughed about the fact that they were not included, too.
Because it's Androni Giocattoli - and not RS. It's as simple as that.
Different standards - some poster's standards are adjusted and changed with the names involved.

If I was Androni Giocattoli supporter I would support them 100% - in good and bad times, 24/7 and with full energy, too. Like these Vacansoleil-warriors.

Everyone has his personal favorites, but I will never understand some posters motives and passion of hating some teams or riders to hell.
There is no team or rider I hate and hunt down - it's not my passion and it will never be. Sorry.

 

[theswordsman]

I watched the Milan Giro stage, and Lance was talking to a lot of guys and I think it was DiLuca who spoke to the media. But Lance was paid big money to be there, and he spent a lot of time publicly complaining about the safety of other stages, even though they were typical Giro conditions. (Imagine what he would have had to say this year). Then LA got upset with the press for calling him on it, so he went against the open and available policy he'd announced in Vanity Fair, holed up on the team bus making videos and taunting people on twitter (welcome to 2009). I'd signed up for twitter the same day he did, and because he did, and unfollowed and blocked him that day. He took the money and then gave the event a bunch of negative publicity.

One of the Radio Shack riders said in an interview this year that the Giro had gone on Bruyneel's black list in summer 2009. He also said that the main reason the team didn't do the Giro this year was because of a financial argument between Armstrong and Zomegnan. I always post links, but I'm not prepared to page back through tons of articles at Astanafans to track this down. I think it was Popovych?

So the Dream Team said they couldn't race the Giro because they didn't have enough strong riders to do that and also win against a weak field of mostly non-finishers and Euros having an excellent California vaca (they may have used different words). But the Giro was a great race without them, and wasn't tainted by the publicity of the Landis bombshell.

Lance didn't show up at Milan Sanremo as he'd promised for the team to receive an invitation.

The Shack then showed up at the Tour and pulled their little stunt with the jerseys to call attention to themselves instead of the guys who won jerseys or were celebrating just finishing. And did they bother asking approval ahead of time as the rules require? Couldn't be bothered. Then they refused to do as they were told and wore the 28 jerseys on the team podium anyway. The UCi called them on it. Bruyneel tweeted against race organizers in general. The Vuelta was well rid of them.

If they had a signed agreement for Lombardia, fine, I'm all about honoring agreements. Was the public announcement of a CAS intervention necessary? Could they have just communicated with RCS Sports? Can they make it through even a one day race without causing some non-cycling drama?

And Zomegnan and the others are people too, who can look at the interactions this year and base future decisions on that. Does anyone here think Radio Shack has been a good business partner for them this year?

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Of course, you failed. I saw the whole peloton stop on the line, and then do the course in Milan with some limitations.
Have you got an exact and credible list of the ca. 80 riders who didn't complain about safety of the course, the cars driving and standing around on the course ?
Ok, we just leave that. You can never make ALL people happy and have the same opinion. Never ever anywhere. It's always the majority that makes a decision. Democracy is a bad solution, but the only solution - a well accepted German politic said one day.

Rest of post - looking for crumbs under the table, just speculation and damage-limitation.
But you are on a good way. Thanks.

I will take it that as you haven't been able to address anybodys points so far that you are unable to.


As for Milan - I wait to see you quote the complaints of that stage from the following riders, you can start a new thread if you wish: (as you say the majority should rule - not the loudest mouth)

Sébastien Hinault
Ruggero Marzoli
Jackson Rodriguez
Dmytro Grabovskyy
Janez Brajkovic
Mark Renshaw
Ian Stannard
Steve Chainel
Alexander Serov
Andriy Grivko
Edvald Boasson Hagen
Nikita Eskov
Kasper Klostergaard
Lars Ytting Bak
Luca Mazzanti
Mark Cavendish
Allan Davis
Tyler Farrar
Julian Dean
Angel Gomez
Thomas Lövkvist
Filippo Pozzato
Michael Rogers
Gorazd Stangelj
Marco Pinotti
Michael Barry
Yuriy Krivtsov
Mauro Facci
Matthew Goss
Robert Forster
Robert Hunter
Davide Vigano
Saïd Haddou
Bart Dockx
Serguei Klimov
Renaud Dion
Cameron Meyer
Jos Van Emden
Thomas Rohregger
Blaise Sonnery
Manuele Mori
Christophe Brandt
Kanstantsin Siutsou
Morris Possoni
Marzio Bruseghin
Gustavo Cesar Veloso
Pablo Lastras
Paolo Tiralongo
Enrico Gasparotto
Paolo Longo Borghini
Mauro Da Dalto
Evgeny Petrov
Mikhail Ignatiev
Ignatas Konovalovas
Serge Pauwels
Addy Engels
Eros Capecchi
Tadej Valjavec
Massimo Codol
Alexander Efimkin
Giuseppe Palumbo
Dario David Cioni
Francesco Masciarelli
Pavel Brutt
Matteo Bono
Dries Devenyns
Kevin Seeldrayers
Anders Lund
Alessandro Donati
Manuel Quinziato
Alessandro Vanotti
Kjell Carlström
Francesco Gavazzi
Marco Marzano
David Arroyo
Delio Ferandez
Yohann Gene
Philippe Gilbert
Pieter Jacobs
Daniele Pietropolli
Guillaume le Floch
Félix Cardenas
Martin Müller
Björn Schröder
Francesco Failli
Dario Andriotto
Daniel Navarro
Olivier Kaisen
Juan José Haedo
Diego Caccia
Mauricio Soler
Mathieu Perget
Volodymir Gustov
Gabriele Bosisio
Matteo Montaguti
Giairo Ermeti
Kevin Hulsmans
Davide Malacarne
Francesco Reda
Vladimir Miholjevic
Jurgen Van Goolen
Leonardo Scarselli
Giovanni Visconti
Giampaolo Cheula
Anthony Charteau
Thomas Voeckler
Julien Belgy
Gonzalo Rabunal
Vladimir Isaichev
Serafin Martinez
Maarten Tjallingii
Bram De Groot
Mauricio Ardila
Joaquin Rodriguez
David Lopez Garcia
Iker Camano
Andrey Zeits
Fredrik Kessiakoff
Alberto Fernandez
Tom Stamsnijder
Thomas Fothen
Eduard Vorganov
Ben Swift
Laurens Ten Dam
Jure Golcer
Bartosz Huzarski
Carlos José Ochoa

 

[Bicicleta]

Bruseghin was one of the main ones involved in the protest, was in hot water (to put it mildly) with the Lampre sponsor because of his involvement and was eventually out of Lampre because of this. He is now with Caisse.
Both Lampre and Caisse were at the Giro this year. Bruseghin too. Well for a few stages anyway. He crashed and we all got to see many pictures of his bare, furry Italian behiney. Bet Zomegnan enjoyed it - he probably thought it was karma.

 

[flicker]

I watched the Milan Giro stage, and Lance was talking to a lot of guys and I think it was DiLuca who spoke to the media. But Lance was paid big money to be there, and he spent a lot of time publicly complaining about the safety of other stages, even though they were typical Giro conditions. (Imagine what he would have had to say this year). Then LA got upset with the press for calling him on it, so he went against the open and available policy he'd announced in Vanity Fair, holed up on the team bus making videos and taunting people on twitter (welcome to 2009). I'd signed up for twitter the same day he did, and because he did, and unfollowed and blocked him that day. He took the money and then gave the event a bunch of negative publicity.

One of the Radio Shack riders said in an interview this year that the Giro had gone on Bruyneel's black list in summer 2009. He also said that the main reason the team didn't do the Giro this year was because of a financial argument between Armstrong and Zomegnan. I always post links, but I'm not prepared to page back through tons of articles at Astanafans to track this down. I think it was Popovych?

So the Dream Team said they couldn't race the Giro because they didn't have enough strong riders to do that and also win against a weak field of mostly non-finishers and Euros having an excellent California vaca (they may have used different words). But the Giro was a great race without them, and wasn't tainted by the publicity of the Landis bombshell.

Lance didn't show up at Milan Sanremo as he'd promised for the team to receive an invitation.

The Shack then showed up at the Tour and pulled their little stunt with the jerseys to call attention to themselves instead of the guys who won jerseys or were celebrating just finishing. And did they bother asking approval ahead of time as the rules require? Couldn't be bothered. Then they refused to do as they were told and wore the 28 jerseys on the team podium anyway. The UCi called them on it. Bruyneel tweeted against race organizers in general. The Vuelta was well rid of them.

If they had a signed agreement for Lombardia, fine, I'm all about honoring agreements. Was the public announcement of a CAS intervention necessary? Could they have just communicated with RCS Sports? Can they make it through even a one day race without causing some non-cycling drama?

And Zomegnan and the others are people too, who can look at the interactions this year and base future decisions on that. Does anyone here think Radio Shack has been a good business partner for them this year?

So the issue is that the old lion Armstrong did not jump and roll over when Zomegen jerked his chain. Because Lance as well as DiLuca and Simoni were concerned for their younger bros. in arms to protect the safety of the riders on the wicked streets of Milano.

I know that cycling is a spectacle but it is important to protect the safety of the riders. The man whose hand I shook this year Pedro Horrillo went flying off a bridge in the Giro and the organizers did not see him go off. His team mates located him.

If that embarasses Giro organizers good. Cycling is not about gladiators in the colosium it is a bonafide sport.

Also I believe if Armstrong was paid appearance money to be in the Giro it brought interest and prestige to the event.

A grand race yes but if Armstrong or anyone else calls the organizers about safety issues by God the organizers need to listen.

 

[kurtinsc]

About that agreement RadioShack allegedly had with RCS... Is it confirmed? What do we know about it? Bruyneel doesn't mention it explicitly in his vomit-inducing blog post:

http://johanbruyneel.com/blog.html

I haven't seen it confirmed... but I can't think of another reason that RCS would seek to get permission for a 26th team and add Radio Shack.

If they wanted the Shack that badly... they would have invited them the first time. There's no reason to add them other then being backed into a legal corner (or perhaps someone at Radioshack having some unflattering pictures they were going to share with the media).

 

[theswordsman]

For those who missed it, here's an interview with Armstrong after the Giro protest in Milan explaining how he wasn't the leader

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W7tXppinREo

I tracked down an old Velonews comment of mine and confirmed it was a foreign language interview with Popovych who talked about the Giro being blacklisted and the Zomegnan/Armstrong disagreement that kept the team from riding this year. The interview is on Astanafans website somewhere, probably in Russian.

 

[jaylew]

About that agreement RadioShack allegedly had with RCS... Is it confirmed? What do we know about it? Bruyneel doesn't mention it explicitly in his vomit-inducing blog post:

http://johanbruyneel.com/blog.html

I don't know anything about it, but it seems obvious that there was one or events wouldn't have played out they way they have.

Bruyneel certainly keeps on about it at any rate. His latest tweet:

Always good to keep race confirmation emails from organizers ... - http://bit.ly/ddrUvZ

 

[Barrus]

Hey, Bruyneel reacted and not a word about the other teams, what a shock




Also I never said anything about Lance, I only talkes about my displeasure with the prosecure and especially with RS/UCI/Bruyneel

 

[theswordsman]

Fun times. Sportal.TV figures that since Radio Shack is in Giro di Lombardia, Armstrong will be at the start of the race (they don't suggest he'll be at the finish).

Al via quindi ci sarà anche Lance Armstrong, il texano reduce dal quantomai negativo (e con ogni probabilità ultimo in carriera) Tour de France.

At the start then there will be Lance Armstrong, the Texan is exceptionally fresh from negative (and probably last in his career) Tour de France.

http://www.sportal.it/news/news801270.html

 

[theyoungest]

Fun times. Sportal.TV figures that since Radio Shack is in Giro di Lombardia, Armstrong will be at the start of the race (they don't suggest he'll be at the finish).


http://www.sportal.it/news/news801270.html

That's Google Translate f#$king up I think, it says something like "the veteran from Texas who did an exceptionally bad Tour de France".

 

[Bicicleta]

Translation:

Lance Armstrong will be at the start, the Texan has just come from very bad (and probably his last) Tour de France.

 

[Cobblestoned]

I will take it that as you haven't been able to address anybodys points so far that you are unable to.


As for Milan - I wait to see you quote the complaints of that stage from the following riders, you can start a new thread if you wish: (as you say the majority should rule - not the loudest mouth)

Of course you can make your own rules and logics - but I don't have to follow them as you don't have to follow mine.

 

[Cobblestoned]

Hey, Bruyneel reacted and not a word about the other teams, what a shock




Also I never said anything about Lance, I only talkes about my displeasure with the prosecure and especially with RS/UCI/Bruyneel

Desperate ?
Last towel you can still grab.
Please keep us informed about the processes in this very very important issue and keep eyes on the radar.
You will always find something to complain about - if you need that.
This drama only confrms uncle Johan's thoughts about invitation practises.
Perhaps he hates to repeat himself, too.

 

[Berzin]

Not having teams like RS at their races will only continue to push the Giro, Vuelta and ToLomb onto the back burner of pro cycling.

There's about 10million emerging US cycling fans who are "aware" of the TdF, Paris-Roubaix and some of the other Spring Classics. They have no idea about the Vuelta, Giro and most of the post-TdF races.

This will only push those races to the backburner while the Tour of California and Tour of Colorado take hold.

Wrong. Cycling fans follow cycle races regardless. Jingoism and Lance Fanboyism takes a backseat when cycling fans want to watch pro races. And with the internet and live streaming of races available to anyone with a computer, your premise that cycling fans in the US aren't aware of races like the Vuelta and the Giro Di Lombardia is just ludicrous.

These races will NEVER be pushed into any backburner, and there is not one race on American soil that can compete with the history and quality of these European races. Please. Not every American cycling fan is this ignorant.

 

[kurtinsc]

Wrong. Cycling fans follow cycle races regardless. Jingoism and Lance Fanboyism takes a backseat when cycling fans want to watch pro races. And with the internet and live streaming of races available to anyone with a computer, your premise that cycling fans in the US aren't aware of races like the Vuelta and the Giro Di Lombardia is just ludicrous.

These races will NEVER be pushed into any backburner, and there is not one race on American soil that can compete with the history and quality of these European races. Please. Not every American cycling fan is this ignorant.

While I agree with you in part... to build a sport or sporting event you have to get more then the "hardcore" fans. You have to pick up the casual fans as well.

Usually (at least in the US) it takes a star figure to do that. Look at golf, and how it does with Tiger doing well vs when Tiger is playing poorly or not present. The "true" golf fans will watch regardless... but many casual fans won't unless Tiger is playing. We've seen similar things with Nascar with the passing of Dale Earnhardt and the poor performances of his son and the less then dominant performances of Jeff Gordan. Their fanbase is slowly fading away year by year as the current "stars" are failing to capture the casual fan's interest.

The casual cycling fan in the US is NOT aware of anything outside of the Tour. Many do in fact pay some attention to any race Lance rides... including his training rides like the Tour Down Under. And until 2006 or 2007... I was that kind of casual fan. I watched the Tour since Lemond's first win... but I didn't watch any other race until very recently.

I've grown to enjoy following the other races... probably more then the Tour. But I'm realistic enough to realize that casual cycling fans in this country drive ratings here... and they really won't watch unless Lance is there at the moment.

 

[this_is_edie]

For me, those whole incident shows how corrupt the UCI is, they don't care about cycling, cyclists, teams, they only care about lining their pockets.

RCS was an idiot to not invite the team after committing to radioshack earlier this year. I can certainly understand their reasoning, but unless there was a big caveat in the email (ie depending on the wording), they should have kept their word.

As for Bruyneel, well did anyone really believe that he had riders' rights in mind well you're an idiot It's always been about him, Armstrong, and the team (or some riders on the team) - or in other words, about power and money. Yep just like Pat McQuaid and the UCI.

No one from RCS to radioshack to the UCI care about screwing over the smaller teams.

 

[eleven]

Wrong. Cycling fans follow cycle races regardless. Jingoism and Lance Fanboyism takes a backseat when cycling fans want to watch pro races. And with the internet and live streaming of races available to anyone with a computer, your premise that cycling fans in the US aren't aware of races like the Vuelta and the Giro Di Lombardia is just ludicrous.

These races will NEVER be pushed into any backburner, and there is not one race on American soil that can compete with the history and quality of these European races. Please. Not every American cycling fan is this ignorant.

The way you create new cycling fans and grow the sport is by building champions for fans to watch. While US cycling fans "can" access the Vuelta and Lombardia, they won't unless there is an attraction to watch.

The NBA did not become a worldwide brand with reaches in every corner of the globe b/c people in China and Peru fell in love with the sport. It became a worldwide brand b/c people fell in love with Michael Jordan. The sport attracts the athletes and those who love sport. The stars attract the casual viewer.

If you would rather that only "true" fans in America follow cycling, that it remains a small niche sport, that is fine. But you certainly can't expect those paying the bills and seeking race sponsorship to share your desire.

 

[flicker]

While I agree with you in part... to build a sport or sporting event you have to get more then the "hardcore" fans. You have to pick up the casual fans as well.

Usually (at least in the US) it takes a star figure to do that. Look at golf, and how it does with Tiger doing well vs when Tiger is playing poorly or not present. The "true" golf fans will watch regardless... but many casual fans won't unless Tiger is playing. We've seen similar things with Nascar with the passing of Dale Earnhardt and the poor performances of his son and the less then dominant performances of Jeff Gordan. Their fanbase is slowly fading away year by year as the current "stars" are failing to capture the casual fan's interest.

The casual cycling fan in the US is NOT aware of anything outside of the Tour. Many do in fact pay some attention to any race Lance rides... including his training rides like the Tour Down Under. And until 2006 or 2007... I was that kind of casual fan. I watched the Tour since Lemond's first win... but I didn't watch any other race until very recently.

I've grown to enjoy following the other races... probably more then the Tour. But I'm realistic enough to realize that casual cycling fans in this country drive ratings here... and they really won't watch unless Lance is there at the moment.

Unfortunatley US interest in Le Tour will be down without Lance. The total domination by Contador will turn most Americans off. Andy and Fraanc Schleck are riders Americans can relate to and perhaps Farrar if he gets a bling master to reshape his image. Myself I am turned off by Farrars tattoos that is the first thing I see in him. Maybe he could get some lacey thing armwarmers and dress up like Dr. Frankenfurter in The Rocky Horror picture show, now that would get my attention!

 

[Muerdago11]

The way you create new cycling fans and grow the sport is by building champions for fans to watch. While US cycling fans "can" access the Vuelta and Lombardia, they won't unless there is an attraction to watch.

The NBA did not become a worldwide brand with reaches in every corner of the globe b/c people in China and Peru fell in love with the sport. It became a worldwide brand b/c people fell in love with Michael Jordan. The sport attracts the athletes and those who love sport. The stars attract the casual viewer.

If you would rather that only "true" fans in America follow cycling, that it remains a small niche sport, that is fine. But you certainly can't expect those paying the bills and seeking race sponsorship to share your desire.

The NBA never became a "worldwide brand" at all basically for all of the reasons that pro cycling never will-- thuggery and illegal activity. Oh sure, cycling doesn't feature "hood boys from Detriot"-- hey maybe that was a draw but cycling fans want a clean sport free from the bullsh**t (did I do that right or should it be b*llsh*t?) of organized "sports?"

 

[Libertine Seguros]

If you would rather that only "true" fans in America follow cycling, that it remains a small niche sport, that is fine. But you certainly can't expect those paying the bills and seeking race sponsorship to share your desire.

This is true, but if you alienate the "true" fans then you have nothing to fall back on should your gambit on making it more mainstream fail.

i.e. if US cycling stakes everything on the Armstrong factor and races with bought "prestige" courtesy of him and his cronies, they shouldn't be surprised when the hardcore fans don't care for their posturing and lies, and therefore shouldn't be surprised if the bottom falls out once Armstrong and his cronies retire when they never bothered trying to sell America on races outside of the Tour, or on any of the other Americans achieving good results outside of the Armstrong umbrella.

 

[kurtinsc]

This is true, but if you alienate the "true" fans then you have nothing to fall back on should your gambit on making it more mainstream fail.

i.e. if US cycling stakes everything on the Armstrong factor and races with bought "prestige" courtesy of him and his cronies, they shouldn't be surprised when the hardcore fans don't care for their posturing and lies, and therefore shouldn't be surprised if the bottom falls out once Armstrong and his cronies retire when they never bothered trying to sell America on races outside of the Tour, or on any of the other Americans achieving good results outside of the Armstrong umbrella.

You're basically saying American cycling shouldn't attempt to grow their fan base.

True fans don't really matter. This sounds bad... but from a marketing perspective it's pretty much dead on. I'm a huge college football fan... and while I may whine about things like the BCS and unfair suspensions of players by the NCAA... I'm still going to watch college football... because I am a FAN (as in fanatic).

People like that are VERY hard to drive off. You can pretty much bank on them as a marketer... so they don't matter. You don't want to cater to me when trying to market college football... you want to cater to my wife or my mom. THOSE are the people that increase your market share... and I'm going to be there even if you dress all the players up in pink flowery uniforms and use a lot of time showing human interest stories about the players during the game.

 

[flicker]

This is true, but if you alienate the "true" fans then you have nothing to fall back on should your gambit on making it more mainstream fail.

i.e. if US cycling stakes everything on the Armstrong factor and races with bought "prestige" courtesy of him and his cronies, they shouldn't be surprised when the hardcore fans don't care for their posturing and lies, and therefore shouldn't be surprised if the bottom falls out once Armstrong and his cronies retire when they never bothered trying to sell America on races outside of the Tour, or on any of the other Americans achieving good results outside of the Armstrong umbrella.

Americans probably do care if Armstrong if is proven to commited crime. I think that the worldwide poulation will appreciate the positiver= things Lance has done. I would imagine Europeans and hardcore fans of cycling like myself who have been around understand fullwell and accept the dark side as a way of life. I watched the 2006 Primevera for instace and saw motorcycles pacing the chasing pack to the breakaway. Clearly cheating but a way of life in pro continental cycling. Some riders like that and obviously the riders who had their teamates in the break did not. What is this issue about "clean" cycling. Never saw it in Europe!

 

[Libertine Seguros]

You're basically saying American cycling shouldn't attempt to grow their fan base.

I'm not saying that. I'm saying that you have to strike a balance between trying to bring in the casual fan, and not losing the audience that you already have. Any niche product has this problem. Sky are having this problem at the moment - they've had to shout loud and talk smack about what they're going to achieve to bring in casual fans, and that has annoyed a lot of the hardcore fans. And then when they don't achieve their unrealistic pretend-aims, the hardcore fans take great pleasure in mocking them for it, and the casual fans become disillusioned. See also the Tour of California.

But this often puts people between a rock and a hard place because you either risk the bottom falling out if the jump up doesn't work, or you never gain any credibility. This will always be a problem for something like AToC and to a lesser extent the Tour of Britain, because the best way to gain prestige amongst fans and riders is to make the race difficult, making winning feel like an achievement. But that would entail moving away from where the fans are, and when you can't guarantee the attendance of fans it's harder to attract the sponsorship money. At least the move to May has enabled them to make a tougher parcours, even if they didn't really utilise the possibilities yet. The problem was, they did the tough sell on the event, but it was almost impossible to buy what they were selling. The casual fan would see the big names at the race going off the back and losing 20 minutes and think something was up, and the hardcore fan was full of "I told you so"s.

It's a shame for the US, but it's the same in the UK, Australia and other places - for them cycling IS the Tour de France. It's led to various hypings of riders and trying to turn them into something they're not - they were talking about turning Geraint Thomas into a GC rider back in July, when he's proven adept on cobbles. It took the BBC two days to report on Cavendish winning Milan-San Remo. You're between a rock and a hard place - either you perform at the Tour or you're a bust, regardless of how good the rest of the year was. Now, if you build your season entirely around the Tour like Radioshack did, then that's fair enough, but other teams and riders are getting torn down despite fairly good showings.

Same goes for Radioshack at Lombardia. For the haters, if they do well, they weren't supposed to be there. If they do badly, they didn't deserve to be there and RCS were right not to invite them. For the fans, if they do well, it's cos they're awesome. If they do badly, it's cos their preparation was screwed by the bias of race organisers.

 

[jaylew]

The NBA never became a "worldwide brand" at all basically for all of the reasons that pro cycling never will-- thuggery and illegal activity. Oh sure, cycling doesn't feature "hood boys from Detriot"-- hey maybe that was a draw but cycling fans want a clean sport free from the bullsh**t (did I do that right or should it be b*llsh*t?) of organized "sports?"

This post is total BS.