Radioshack Crying after Lombardia snub

[La Pandera]

This is the longest sentence I ever read in a forum. Congrats to that, but doesn't make your post any better. It doesn't make anys sense what you write in the sporting aspect.
PLEASE take of YOUR blinders.

Well, thanks. Next time I plan to submit a post I'll be sure to run it by you for your approval since your post is so pristine and perfect....oh wait

 

[kurtinsc]

IIRC the points system used ages the individual riders totals. So 2009 points still have some weight. Otherwise RS would be way way down the list based on their 2010 results.

Which system does that?

It seems pretty stupid to have "yearly" rankings if previous years results count.

 

[Anonymous]

Not having teams like RS at their races will only continue to push the Giro, Vuelta and ToLomb onto the back burner of pro cycling.

There's about 10million emerging US cycling fans who are "aware" of the TdF, Paris-Roubaix and some of the other Spring Classics. They have no idea about the Vuelta, Giro and most of the post-TdF races.

This will only push those races to the backburner while the Tour of California and Tour of Colorado take hold.

Where does a company like Specialized get more bang for the buck? Giro di Italia or Tour of California where the GOVERNOR-ATOR Arnold Schwartzenegger is giving away the first leaders jersey???? What do you think makes the headlines from California, across the Pacific Rim and over 1/2 of China?

You know that they sell bikes in other parts of the world too? right.

Not just California and Colorado.

 

[benpounder]

This link indicates they're only ranked 10th with little prospects of improving on that ranking.

You are right. And it would not be the first time I relied upon cyclingnews.com for accurate information (disappointing for my favorate cycling website) - which later turned out false. Looks like a typo and they initially had Rabobank and Radioshack transposed. My mistake for not fully checking sources.

[my edit]Man, what a poorly designed website UCI has (reflecting how poorly they have 'managed' the Pro-Peloton perhaps). No direct links to the rankings, and in fact the http://www.uci.ch/_____ that I previously linked took you to a search engine site listing sites not even close to Union Cycliste Internationale. Anyway, the path is Road then Rankings found in the lefthand menu; World Rankings found in the middle table, then Teams found in the tabs above the next table.

Perhaps I should excuse CyclingNews.com for the difficulties of wallowing through the UCI site...

Nah, they are paid professionals...

 

[benpounder]

Not an true comparison.

As I read Francois comments, he was refering to an advocate for cycling, not anything else. Hence the comparison. I may be mistaken about that.

The attendence, and attention LA has brought to cancer awareness during his "comeback", while hard to calculate, certainly has had tangible benefits. In my hometown of Steamboat Springs, LA's event raised more than $300,000. Small potatos until you consider the town's population of just under 10,000.

 

[rhubroma]

It is funny. Funny that race organisers from two of the countries with the worst records for doping offences have decided that all of a sudden, Armstrong and his team are outcasts. Oh well the pro cycling world never makes much sense to me. I am no Armstrong apologist but I hope that the team avoids both races in the future. Problem solved.

LA and the Hog did more to harm Italian cycling than any other factor in the contemporary sport. For a decade LA couldn't be bothered with the Giro, then came to the race back from retirement (was even payed a million to participate) and led a protest against the course! The Tour of Cal, while a nobel race, shouldn't coincide with the Italian national Tour and they, too, have played an indirect role in the UCI's decision. He and Bruyneel, are, in light of the Landis et al revelations, now a huge stain on a sport in desperate need of credibility. I would therefore hush about "worst records." They had made a career of fraudulent behavior, bullied their way through the sport for 7 years while paying an Italian medic most of the time.

At least someone has had the palle to stand up to them!

 

[benpounder]

Now about that appendix...

Table of contents first Please!

We disagree about the value of that particular rating system. I totally ignore it, to be frank.

Turns out I was wrong about the standings - RS is 11th not 2nd. That aside, while I dont agree with much of the UCI protocols, they are the governing body for professional cycling. Their ranking are based upon races they sanction and oversee, and races that they sanction and have little control over. Until there is a better system of ranking, or a better board of directors, we have to live with the flaws of the UCI. That includes the ranking system.

As I said frequently here, I can see the pov from which that makes sense. But then don't moan when promoters also pick and mix to what suits them.

You will note, that other than last year's pre-TdF thread, I have not "moaned" about RS's exclusion. In fact, I acknowledge that the selection process for most all races is fickle, and at the discression of the organizer. They chose which teams will best suit their own aims. And fundementally, that is indistiguisable from the aims of the teams that chose to participate, or not to participate in that race. All are hoping for economic success and longevity.

BUT where the contempt comes in: they also added a constant story that "only" this race really mattered, or that it only had any worth if they were in. In other words, they saw and treated all the other races as seriously inferior.

This is where points of view differ, and there is no way to reconcile. I can understand your point of view, I just think that instead of thinking a particular race 'inferior', LA and team thought said race non-productive to their overall aims. Admittedly, many folks dont like that approach. But to say that other teams do not subordinate their schedules to realistic aims, just as USP/Disco/Astana/TRS did is ignoring reality (think Quickstep).

I do however have a problem with people who see Lance as someone who promotes the totality of cycling. And I do have a problem when Lance himself behaves as if he embodies cycling.

If you care to check these forum archives, you will find I have many problems with Lance. Yes he could have been a better ambassador for the sport. Tiger Woods could have been better for golf; David Beckham could have been better for football; Michael Jordan could have been better for Basketball; Michael Phelps could have been better for swimming; Pete Rose could have been better for baseball...

I agree that LA brought people to the sport. The vast majority won't be keepers, but a lot will be. But I'm not sure if the keepers amongst them wouldn't have been brought in over time anyway. Media and consumption has changed a lot too. And it will be true for some parts of the world more than others too.

Narrow-sighted and selfish POV?

I think you are misreading more than you nail, to be frank.

Inproperly stated on my part. I think you know Francois, but it is getting to late to fully explain where I was trying to go to others.

My goodness, now I need a table of contents...

 

[gregrowlerson]

That's ok, we were all complete cycling novices at some point, and I am certainly not pretending to be an expert either. If you like cycling, given time, I think you will find a growing appreciation of what else is out there, or at least discover a certain type of one day classics which appeals to your taste.

I think that what you have in common with Lance Armstrong's teams (in various guises) - and face it, they were his team, rather than teams that LA was on - is that, rightly or wrongly, they had a blind spot for most of the racing calendar. They were very focussed on a handful of races that were important to them, and treated the rest with what I call disdain and disrespect. The history, winners, and organisers alike. Most riders wouldn't have had a say in what races they wanted the team to appear in, but by signing up for a Lance Team, you knew what you were in for.

You claim that RadioShack is entitled to entry in these races, but that's where we disagree. These races "owe" no-one. And given how Lance, Bruyneel and RS have treated some of the organisers of these over the years, if they had any entitlement at all, they have certainly lost that with several of them, for very good reasons.

There are agreements for automatic qualifications in place, and they ought to be honoured. After that, it's up to the race organisers to decide who they want to invite.

No team is so big that they are "entitled", not even those that ought to be respected for good reasons. Especially not if that respect, over the years, has been a lonely one-way street.

And that is even without taking into account how Lance paid back the Giro organisers, after they stumped up a lot of money so he would appear in their race to "selfishly" promote cancer awareness.

Given a free choice, there seem to be several organisers recently who appear to judge RadioShack with or without LA a rapidly diminishing attraction for their races.

Don't forget though that actual "worth" is relative here. A small local team's attendance might actually be worth more to a particular organiser than a disinterested big name from over yonder.

I am not the biggest Armstrong fan around (though I greatly admire what he has achieved, as a person he comes across often as too arrogant), but I also don't really understand the cycling culture as I can't see what the problem is with focussing mostly on the TDF and then supposedly not paying the other races much respect. I used to have more of an interest in distance running, which is different in that it is not a team sport, but a runner might focus mainly on the World Championships and the Brussels 10,000 metres in a season. Just because he/she didn't compete in all the other races (or did so whilst not being in absolute peak form) wouldn't have others saying that they had no respect for the sport/competition as a whole.

Maybe one day I will come around to the culture of cycling a little more.

I still don't see how riders who should be racing (Horner, Kloden and Levi at the Vuelta - how are they not in the top 100 plus riders?) aren't because of perceived arrogance and a lack of respect for others and the sport. Does this mean that America should have been excluded on many occasions in the men's Olympic Games and World Championship basketball competitions for not fielding their best possible team? For instance at the 2010 comp (which they won gold) the USA didn't include many of their biggest names. I'm pretty sure that the other countries had their best teams possible (excluding cases of injury such as Bogut not appearing for Australia).

So with team Radioshack being amongst the top ten teams at the Vuelta I don't see why they shouldn't have been there.

I like that you bring up the point about Lance in the Giro last year. This is very valid to all of these cases - the issue of appearance money. I don't know if anyone could accuse Lance of forcing the Giro to cough up a lot of money for him. If he demanded too much then they have every right to refuse him and his team entry (I don't agree with appearance fees in any sport). But they did not have to sign him up and pay him lots of money did they?

If Johan was demanding too much appearance money from the Vuelta then I will change my opinion on this matter.

 

[ultimobici]

As I read Francois comments, he was refering to an advocate for cycling, not anything else. Hence the comparison. I may be mistaken about that.

I was referring to the Tiger Woods/Lance Armstrong comparison. Only LA has set himself up as Global Cancer Awareness Ambassador. TW just bangs golf balls & hookers!

The attendence, and attention LA has brought to cancer awareness during his "comeback", while hard to calculate, certainly has had tangible benefits. In my hometown of Steamboat Springs, LA's event raised more than $300,000. Small potatos until you consider the town's population of just under 10,000.

$300K is great for a town of that size. Congratulations!

 

[ultimobici]

Which system does that?

It seems pretty stupid to have "yearly" rankings if previous years results count.

My mistake, that was the old system used before the Pro Tour come into existence.

Teams were ranked and admitted to races based on the quality of the talent. Led to riders going for points and not risking anything for a win.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

I am not the biggest Armstrong fan around (though I greatly admire what he has achieved, as a person he comes across often as too arrogant), but I also don't really understand the cycling culture as I can't see what the problem is with focussing mostly on the TDF and then supposedly not paying the other races much respect. I used to have more of an interest in distance running, which is different in that it is not a team sport, but a runner might focus mainly on the World Championships and the Brussels 10,000 metres in a season. Just because he/she didn't compete in all the other races (or did so whilst not being in absolute peak form) wouldn't have others saying that they had no respect for the sport/competition as a whole.
---
So with team Radioshack being amongst the top ten teams at the Vuelta I don't see why they shouldn't have been there.

Well, if the team wasn't going to pay the race much respect because they wanted to focus on other races more in tune with their aims from the season, then you have to give the Vuelta's organisers the same right to want to focus on other teams more in tune with their aims from the race. As I've said before, the only team I can envision leaving out for Radioshack is Sky. Xacobeo and Andalucía are small teams, but they are essential to the Vuelta. Cervélo have two Spanish GT contenders and a guy who was top 10 last year. Garmin won three stages last year. Katyusha have the guy in the lead of the race right now and weren't invited last year.

There wasn't this much furore when Katyusha weren't invited last year, but cos it's Radioshack, it's a supposed travesty. Do any of you remember anything about Astana's race at last year's Vuelta, other than Vino bonking on stage 12 and getting into the team car?

 

[roundabout]

Didn't Colom and Pfannberger test positive before the invites were announced last year?

 

[Francois the Postman]

I am not the biggest Armstrong fan around (though I greatly admire what he has achieved, as a person he comes across often as too arrogant), but I also don't really understand the cycling culture as I can't see what the problem is with focussing mostly on the TDF and then supposedly not paying the other races much respect. I used to have more of an interest in distance running, which is different in that it is not a team sport, but a runner might focus mainly on the World Championships and the Brussels 10,000 metres in a season. Just because he/she didn't compete in all the other races (or did so whilst not being in absolute peak form) wouldn't have others saying that they had no respect for the sport/competition as a whole.

Maybe one day I will come around to the culture of cycling a little more.

I still don't see how riders who should be racing (Horner, Kloden and Levi at the Vuelta - how are they not in the top 100 plus riders?) aren't because of perceived arrogance and a lack of respect for others and the sport. Does this mean that America should have been excluded on many occasions in the men's Olympic Games and World Championship basketball competitions for not fielding their best possible team? For instance at the 2010 comp (which they won gold) the USA didn't include many of their biggest names. I'm pretty sure that the other countries had their best teams possible (excluding cases of injury such as Bogut not appearing for Australia).

So with team Radioshack being amongst the top ten teams at the Vuelta I don't see why they shouldn't have been there.

I like that you bring up the point about Lance in the Giro last year. This is very valid to all of these cases - the issue of appearance money. I don't know if anyone could accuse Lance of forcing the Giro to cough up a lot of money for him. If he demanded too much then they have every right to refuse him and his team entry (I don't agree with appearance fees in any sport). But they did not have to sign him up and pay him lots of money did they?

If Johan was demanding too much appearance money from the Vuelta then I will change my opinion on this matter.

I think what you are missing is that the Vuelta is a private race. People put up their own money to stage it. It isn't like the Olympics, or the finals of a global competition.

The organisers in theory can invite whoever hey want, although they have agreements in place with the governing cycling body to automatically include certain teams. Part of the grand give and take dance that we get every two years or so.

RadioShack's automatic inclusion, as a new team, wasn't covered by any existing agreements. so it's totally up to the Vuelta organisers to decide if they want to invite RadioShack as one of the "wild card teams".

You might consider RadioShack a top 10 team at the Vuelta. Evidently, those that ran the race didn't see it that way at all. They really preferred other teams. And the Vuelta is a business. It's less politics than straight economics. RadioShack is judged, rightly or wrongly, to add less value to the product it is selling than some of the local smaller Spanish Teams.

And for the last time, I have no problem with a team that wants to target one or two races a year. I do have a problem if that team somehow feels entitled to dictate to private parties (the race organisers) which races it can gatecrash. If they pick and mix, at least accept others doing exactly the same, and totally accept it when you are not picked. Without petty commentary etc.

To say RadioShack has top riders, so it should be there if it wants to is like saying that the Red Hot Chili Peppers are a bigger band than several of the bands appearing at Glastonbury, so if they want to play there, those running the Festival should be obliged to book them. Never mind who "Mr Glastonbury" wants to put on or thinks are actually more suitable for its festival that year.

And if the RHCP, or its managers, had a long history of not caring one iota about the festival, or having played a godawful set on a previous occasion when it was booked, it makes it all the more surreal that they suddenly feel they "deserve" an invite, as it fits their summer touring season quite well this year.

I forgot your Giro comment. If any organiser wants to pay a lot of money to anyone to appear, that is up to them. They obviously judged it to be worth the pennies. But like any business, you do evaluate if it actually turned out to be value for money afterwards. If a business feels someone took the mickey, or seriously underperformed, or can't see any value in a repeat invite, the "underperformer" should not be surprised if it has consequences for future invites. For the store it appeared in, and at other stores in the chain for sure. And because others will have taken note, quite possibly also at totally unrelated stores.

My argument is very simple, it is totally up to the businesses to decide how they want to spend their money, and on what products. As long as they honour the contracts they engage in. If they make wise decisions, they will do well. Time will tell if not inviting RadioShack in 2010 will be remembered as the start of the Vuelta's demise.

 

[kurtinsc]

Well, if the team wasn't going to pay the race much respect because they wanted to focus on other races more in tune with their aims from the season, then you have to give the Vuelta's organisers the same right to want to focus on other teams more in tune with their aims from the race. As I've said before, the only team I can envision leaving out for Radioshack is Sky. Xacobeo and Andalucía are small teams, but they are essential to the Vuelta. Cervélo have two Spanish GT contenders and a guy who was top 10 last year. Garmin won three stages last year. Katyusha have the guy in the lead of the race right now and weren't invited last year.

There wasn't this much furore when Katyusha weren't invited last year, but cos it's Radioshack, it's a supposed travesty. Do any of you remember anything about Astana's race at last year's Vuelta, other than Vino bonking on stage 12 and getting into the team car?

It's not a travesty... it's just disappointing.

Radioshack WANTED to ride the Vuelta. They had some good riders who were hoping to focus on the race. After RS essentially failing at the Tour, they would have been extremely motivated (though the Vuelta organizers had no way to know that when they were handing out wildcards).

I'm not a "team" guy when it comes to cycling... but I do like to see good riders in big races... and I think RS would have brounght a good team. And I think that it was clear when wildcards were being handed out that they would have brought a good team... stage races and GT's are what their team is designed for.

So them not being invited is disappointing.

 

[ultimobici]

Seems throwing a hissy fit works!

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/radioshack-added-to-lombardy-line-up

 

[Squares]

Lombardia includes the Shack

Get ready for the Lance Haters to start whining about RS getting into the Giro Lombardia

I anticipate comments saying they bought off the UCI among others...

despite the reality that they had a contract with RCS to provide entry.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

Why do people care about the Lombardia? I mean, it's not like the race takes place in July or something.

 

[joy118118]

Why do people care about the Lombardia? I mean, it's not like the race takes place in July or something.

it is a monuments, isnt it?

 

[ultimobici]

Get ready for the Lance Haters to start whining about RS getting into the Giro Lombardia

I anticipate comments saying they bought off the UCI among others...

despite the rality that they had a contract with RCS to provide entry.

Why Lance? He's in the US as per usual at this time of the season.

It'll be interesting to see whether they animate the race as many claim they will.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

it is a monuments, isnt it?

Poor man's Tour of the Gila.

 

[ultimobici]

Why do people care about the Lombardia? I mean, it's not like the race takes place in July or something.

Nice one. LOL! Pity there's no "Irony" smiley for those slower on the uptake.

 

[flicker]

it is a monuments, isnt it?

Does Lombadia have the prestige that it had in the 70s when Merckx and co. were winning it? Those guys rode year round.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

Does Lombadia have the prestige that it had in the 70s when Merckx and co. were winning it? Those guys rode year round.

Probably not. Nobody cares about it nowadays. Except for the people who don't get invited.

 

[indurain666]

Well, surprise surprise: RS was allowed to race as 26 th team by the UCi. Now mark my words fanboys: RS is going to be packfill. I am pretty sure deadbeats such as Leipheimer or Kloden are like: "Oh crap!! I have to race now...sorry Andy I won't be able to make it...maybe just for a bit, one beer won't hurt me"

 

[flicker]

Probably not. Nobody cares about it nowadays. Except for the people who don't get invited.

Well I guess it is just a granfondo around Lake Como these days eh?