Radioshack out of Tour rumours

[fatandfast]

So when Lance and Levi start on Saturday I hope somebody looses their job at Bicycling Magazine. I hope people start to get pro cycling news from good twitter feeds like Lady Gaga or Justin Beiber. Bill Strickland is a news turd

 

[Ferminal]

No, I believe Wiggins is clean, and I also believe that some people have more natural class than others, hence Boardman's (limited) success, and LeMonds also. When class and doping are close, surely you want the clean athlete to win? The implication is that no-one has ever beaten a doper unless they doped themselves, a supposition I don't personally believe. Make's it harder of course, but I think you are wrong, imho.

Well you can't just look at an overall result and say "he beat a doper so he's a doper also".

But the facts are that blood doping provides a massive benefit, at least 10% going into the GT. By the third week a clean rider vs transfusions will probably be 20% worse off. There's no way you can stay with Contador, Armstrong etc on the Queen stage of a GT (or the third week) without some sort of blood doping regime (all things being equal).

All these guys have natural class, they are all way inside the top 1% of the population, they all show the same dedication to their training regime etc. It's unbelievably unlikely that there is an outlier beyond this which can overcome that 10-20% disadvantage. LeMond's natural class would get absolutely destroyed in today's racing, there is no one prior to the widespread introduction of blood boosting who could match the power of the big dopers today. Bradley can't be "that" special, if he can do it clean, there must be others too - but historical records don't show that.

This year will show a lot about Wiggins and confirm most people's beliefs one way or the other. People look at Evans' record in the final week of GTs and think that he might not be getting topups - that might be the case. But it's still unlikely that he can compete in the first place without some sort of PED use, just on a lower level.

 

[Cobblestoned]

No, I believe Wiggins is clean, and I also believe that some people have more natural class than others, hence Boardman's (limited) success, and LeMonds also. When class and doping are close, surely you want the clean athlete to win? The implication is that no-one has ever beaten a doper unless they doped themselves, a supposition I don't personally believe. Make's it harder of course, but I think you are wrong, imho.

He should eat something before the start of the Tour - you can´t just do it with doping
Wiggo looks like the Suppenkasper shortly before...he gets buried

 

[PhiberAwptik]

So when Lance and Levi start on Saturday I hope somebody looses their job at Bicycling Magazine. I hope people start to get pro cycling news from good twitter feeds like Lady Gaga or Justin Beiber. Bill Strickland is a news turd

Why not?....someone already tried to pass off reader comments from e-online as a credible news source. The same guy that crowed about some WSJ article that never appeared. The obsession is making some people a little bit crazy with what they post. But it's good comedy.

 

[samerics]

Well you can't just look at an overall result and say "he beat a doper so he's a doper also".

But the facts are that blood doping provides a massive benefit, at least 10% going into the GT. By the third week a clean rider vs transfusions will probably be 20% worse off. There's no way you can stay with Contador, Armstrong etc on the Queen stage of a GT (or the third week) without some sort of blood doping regime (all things being equal).

All these guys have natural class, they are all way inside the top 1% of the population, they all show the same dedication to their training regime etc. It's unbelievably unlikely that there is an outlier beyond this which can overcome that 10-20% disadvantage. LeMond's natural class would get absolutely destroyed in today's racing, there is no one prior to the widespread introduction of blood boosting who could match the power of the big dopers today. Bradley can't be "that" special, if he can do it clean, there must be others too - but historical records don't show that.

This year will show a lot about Wiggins and confirm most people's beliefs one way or the other. People look at Evans' record in the final week of GTs and think that he might not be getting topups - that might be the case. But it's still unlikely that he can compete in the first place without some sort of PED use, just on a lower level.

Trouble is, that's what you are effectively saying about Wiggins, Evans etc. I honestly believe that certain people are more talented than others, and the level of doping now cannot be compared with Riis and co. Evans has run very close to winning, Wiggins did well, Van De Velde has done well too, all class, and in all probability, not doping. To add to that, look at Contadors blood values from last year, look at Basso's attacks in the Giro and it does seem that we have a much closer playing field thatn we had before, hence me believing that you can do well clean.

It's all opinions, none of us truly know, we just use the known facts as we can to make our point.

 

[samerics]

He should eat something before the start of the Tour - you can´t just do it with doping
Wiggo looks like the Suppenkasper shortly before...he gets buried

He is bloody thin at the moment! That does reinforce the weight loss argument though......

 

[Ferminal]

Trouble is, that's what you are effectively saying about Wiggins, Evans etc. I honestly believe that certain people are more talented than others, and the level of doping now cannot be compared with Riis and co. Evans has run very close to winning, Wiggins did well, Van De Velde has done well too, all class, and in all probability, not doping. To add to that, look at Contadors blood values from last year, look at Basso's attacks in the Giro and it does seem that we have a much closer playing field thatn we had before, hence me believing that you can do well clean.

It's all opinions, none of us truly know, we just use the known facts as we can to make our point.

Oh I know, it's nice to have discussion though

Did Contador actually publish his blood values?

I think the Giro and Tour are apples and oranges. Basso looks "clean" based on his output and blood values in the Giro, but if he only puts out that power in the Tour he will not podium.

 

[samerics]

I stand corrected, Contador did not....

And I agree about Basso, different level at the Tour, but if he gets top three against Contador then it changes the picture slightly if his blood values look as normal as the Giro.

 

[scribe]

Where are Contador's blood values?

 

[Race Radio]

Where are Contador's blood values?

They are posted on Livestrong.com on the same page as Armstrong's.

 

[Cobblestoned]

He is bloody thin at the moment! That does reinforce the weight loss argument though......

sure it is like that - im afraid but: it doesn´t look healthy any more

you can also loose weight AND dope
and you can/must also use drugs to loose and than keep weight

That does reinforce the weight loss argument though...

 

[scribe]

They are posted on Livestrong.com on the same page as Armstrong's.

Damn! Always getting those blood bags mixed up.

 

[Ferminal]

And I agree about Basso, different level at the Tour, but if he gets top three against Contador then it changes the picture slightly if his blood values look as normal as the Giro.

Agreed, I'm looking forward to his performance with much anticipation.

For me, if the racing is not so good, there's still a bit to look out for from the GC men.

Armstrong (one year on), Wiggins (can he repeat it), Menchov (can he hit Giro 2009 form), Evans/Basso (can they back up after the Giro). The race for 2nd-5th will be more intriguing than the inevitable Contador victory.

 

[Elegant Degenerate]

they need to issue you with a al-foil cap when you come in here.

 

[eleven]

Agreed, I'm looking forward to his performance with much anticipation.

For me, if the racing is not so good, there's still a bit to look out for from the GC men.

Armstrong (one year on), Wiggins (can he repeat it), Menchov (can he hit Giro 2009 form), Evans/Basso (can they back up after the Giro). The race for 2nd-5th will be more intriguing than the inevitable Contador victory.

Personally, I will be very surprised if Basso and Evans can bring their Giro form to the Tour (without regard to any questions about potential doping). If they can compete at the highest level during the Tour, it might change some people's thinking about Tour training and the possibility of a double.

 

[DirtyWorks]

Disagree

What I myself think is more striking about this all, is the fragility of pro-cycling in the US. Without a big star like Armstrong it seems to be destined to fail over there. If even the tour needs to be wary of its viewership, if Lance doesn't compete, how can smaller race even hope to overcome this economic downturn?

There are two kinds of racing in the U.S.

1. The kind where the UCI imports all of the participants and the expensive, difficult format. This is on a downward spiral anyway. If the USAC executive people do any work at all, it's all for the UCI's benefit at the expense (and funded by) the other kind of U.S. racing...

2. Local racing. Some of it might even collect UCI points. One example is Superweek, another was Tour of the Gila. Most years the promoters keep the races going with mostly local support. Weisel at the USAC couldn't care any less for this kind of racing because it's "beneath" Team Pharmstrong. This kind of racing will still happen. Economic conditions affect the races, but it won't die no matter how little USAC pays attention to it. Ideally over time, most of the promoters leave USAC for http://www.fiac.us/


Meanwhile, the U.S. bicycle industry does not benefit at all from LA. The business of owning a shop (or 12) is horrible regardless of the American cycling celebrity of the moment.

 

[Barrus]

Meanwhile, the U.S. bicycle industry does not benefit at all from LA. The business of owning a shop (or 12) is horrible regardless of the American cycling celebrity of the moment.

This latter really amazes me, I would presume that at least some treks are being sold due to LA.
It is Trek he advertises for, right?

 

[Dunedain]

They are posted on Livestrong.com on the same page as Armstrong's.

Cute, but the question remains - what are they? I think it is a fair assumption here that what we are comparing are not dopers to non-dopers but instead dopers to other dopers. If you think AC is "cleaner" than LA, say it.

 

[Race Radio]

Cute, but the question remains - what are they? I think it is a fair assumption here that what we are comparing are not dopers to non-dopers but instead dopers to other dopers. If you think AC is "cleaner" than LA, say it.

Where are any top riders numbers? The only one posting them is Basso.

I do not think that Contador is cleaner, I just think it is silly for the fanboys to call for them as if they would prove anything. As we saw last year Armstrong changed his suspect numbers mid year then stopped posting them all together.

 

[goober]

Where are any top riders numbers? The only one posting them is Basso.

I do not think that Contador is cleaner, I just think it is silly for the fanboys to call for them as if they would prove anything. As we saw last year Armstrong changed his suspect numbers mid year then stopped posting them all together.

Armstrong changed numbers? I had not heard that - I am interested if you have more details. Basso site only shows up to just before the Giro (5/3) - where can I get the values up through the 6/12 test or later?

 

[craig1985]

That's hilarious by contrast. Vacansoleil are one of the few teams that are arguably worse about doping.

Yeah but they would be a lot more entertaining. All Radio Shack is good for is creating hot air.

 

[auscyclefan94]

Where are Contador's blood values?

Ask Fuentes or Saiz.

 

[WonderLance]

Hitting 2002 numbers? I say hes probably above them after all he is a little older now and probably much better at training. He's sure had a lot of practice.

Podium

Lance.
Levistrong.
Cadel cos hes doing it clean.

 

[craig1985]

Cool story bro.

 

[alberto.legstrong]

Hitting 2002 numbers? I say hes probably above them after all he is a little older now and probably much better at training. He's sure had a lot of practice.

Podium

Lance.
Levistrong.
Cadel cos hes doing it clean.

He is Risen!
And on the 3rd stage, he created cobbles....and it was Good.

Roll that stone away!