Radioshack powerhouse

[kurtinsc]

The powerhouse is sending 3 riders to the Tour of the Gila. Any guesses as to which three riders, and what brand of kit they will wear, since the RS kit is not allowed?

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/radioshack-to-send-riders-to-gila

My guess is they'll be in the "Mellow Johnny's" kit that Horner, Armstrong and Leipheimer rode under last year.

I'd say Armstrong and Leipheimer are almost locks... both need to do something prior to the TOC. I don't think Horner would need it as much as he'll have been racing quite a bit... but it seems like it would definitely be an american rider from Bruyneel's statements.

I like the team that the Garmin riders will be riding under better. DZ Nuts... Zabriskies chamois cream company.

 

[Mellow Velo]

The powerhouse is sending 3 riders to the Tour of the Gila. Any guesses as to which three riders, and what brand of kit they will wear, since the RS kit is not allowed?

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/radioshack-to-send-riders-to-gila

Still, it's better than sucking wheels, like Sky at Paris-Roubaix, isn't it?..........
.........well, p'haps not.

 

[Publicus]

The powerhouse is sending 3 riders to the Tour of the Gila. Any guesses as to which three riders, and what brand of kit they will wear, since the RS kit is not allowed?

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/radioshack-to-send-riders-to-gila

Armstrong, Bottle and whoever. I don't see Horner being tapped because he's been racing quite a bit and will likely compete in all of the Ardennes Classics.

Still scratching my head over their unwillingness to send a team to the Giro. What are the other riders going to do during that time????

 

[issoisso]

Armstrong, Bottle and whoever. I don't see Horner being tapped because he's been racing quite a bit and will likely compete in all of the Ardennes Classics.

Still scratching my head over their unwillingness to send a team to the Giro. What are the other riders going to do during that time????

I'm still scratching my head over this "Radioshack decided not to go" thing.

Seems to me they applied and didn't get invited.

 

[Publicus]

I'm still scratching my head over this "Radioshack decided not to go" thing.

Seems to me they applied and didn't get invited.

Wasn't the lack of an invite a result of their unwillingness to send a decent squad? I can't keep up with all of the JB stories on the issue, so I'm not being argumentative just to be argumentative.

Just seems like a waste of a GT opportunity for a lot of riders who could use the experience (e.g., JB, Machado).

 

[JayZee]

I'm pretty sure there is some old saying regarding chickens and hatching and counting that is applicable here...

I was being sarcastic and just wanted to stir the pot a little. I wouldn't be surprised if Levi wins TOC (although his form so far this year has been pretty poor in my view). As for LA wining the Tour, not too likely in my view. I think he may be able to repeat last year's success, but if Contador is healthy Lance aint going to beat him.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

I was being sarcastic and just wanted to stir the pot a little. I wouldn't be surprised if Levi wins TOC (although his form so far this year has been pretty poor in my view). As for LA wining the Tour, not too likely in my view. I think he may be able to repeat last year's success, but if Contador is healthy Lance aint going to beat him.

form, shmorm. If there's one thing we've learnt from over a decade of Hog teams, it's that form is there for the races you WANT it to be there, regardless of what your form is like before or after that. How it gets there is a mystery

 

[Ferdinand Artichoke]

But succeeding only in being more of a dork.

ouch!
got me....I'd a ripped you ta bits in the Cage Fight thread buddy!

 

[Mellow Velo]

Uuumm, yes, the Tour of Gila.
Forget the TDU which was in January and was followed by a 6 week wait for the European season opener and what have we got?
The 5 day, leg warming, Tour of Murcia. "I need another stage race," said Lance.
The week long Catalunya scratched and replaced with a stage and a half of the Criterium International.
Sarthe. Was that one stage or two?
Flanders. OK
Amstel. Race, race reserve, scratched.
Now we have the monster Gila. 5 days of semi pro?
California. A week of decent racing.
Switzerland. This year a weak and watery, non climber course.

Yes, that extra year back racing competitively, is bound to make the difference, just like fanfolks said.

 

[Publicus]

Uuumm, yes, the Tour of Gila.
Forget the TDU which was in January and was followed by a 6 week wait for the European season opener and what have we got?
The 5 day, leg warming, Tour of Murcia. "I need another stage race," said Lance.
The week long Catalunya scratched and replaced with a stage and a half of the Criterium International.
Sarthe. Was that one stage or two?
Flanders. OK
Amstel. Race, race reserve, scratched.
Now we have the monster Gila. 5 days of semi pro?
California. A week of decent racing.
Switzerland. This year a weak and watery, non climber course.

Yes, that extra year back racing competitively, is bound to make the difference, just like fanfolks said.

I believe you've forgotten Argus!, MSR (bubble guts), Fleche Wallone and L-B-L (no real excuse).

But your overall point stands. The extra year back is going to make all the difference in the world come July.

 

[Beech Mtn]

I was being sarcastic and just wanted to stir the pot a little. I wouldn't be surprised if Levi wins TOC (although his form so far this year has been pretty poor in my view). As for LA wining the Tour, not too likely in my view. I think he may be able to repeat last year's success, but if Contador is healthy Lance aint going to beat him.

I will be surprised. I expect LA to attempt to win the ToC and "trade" that to Levi for TdF leadership. LA knows he can't win the TdF, and he has to win something at some point in his comeback, preferably something his fans have heard of (not Leadville or Gila). If he were to win ToC, he can spin it as a great victory to his fans and sponsor, then claim some sort of unverifiable injury, and let Levi be team leader for the TdF, thus "giving" Levi a great opportunity, since Bottle still thinks he can win the Tour someday.

I really don't think LA will go to France this summer due to not wanting to be tested by AFLD and also the ongoing police investigation. If he does in fact go to the Tour, then I predict he will try to spin himself as Levi's helper and the bestest domestique ever, before pulling out due to an injury or illness.

Either way, LA gets to win ToC and rake in the sponsorship dollars and look like a massive champion to his fanboys, while looking like he is above needing to win the TdF, loyal to his buddy Bottle, gonna help Levi win in France, etc. It keeps him from looking like he's stealing the California limelight from Levi, and prevents him from having to face Alberto head-to-head.

 

[kurtinsc]

Uuumm, yes, the Tour of Gila.
Forget the TDU which was in January and was followed by a 6 week wait for the European season opener and what have we got?
The 5 day, leg warming, Tour of Murcia. "I need another stage race," said Lance.
The week long Catalunya scratched and replaced with a stage and a half of the Criterium International.
Sarthe. Was that one stage or two?
Flanders. OK
Amstel. Race, race reserve, scratched.
Now we have the monster Gila. 5 days of semi pro?
California. A week of decent racing.
Switzerland. This year a weak and watery, non climber course.

Yes, that extra year back racing competitively, is bound to make the difference, just like fanfolks said.

What was Lance's race schedule like pre-retirement?

I know he usually did either the Dauphine Libere or Suisse before the tour, and he'd usually ride Flanders and 1-2 of the Ardennes classics (maybe just Amstel Gold most years). He always seemed to show up at the larger US races (California and Georgia).

But other than that... did he do much racing? I know he rode Paris-Nice at least once... but I don't know if he was regularly riding P-N or T-A. I know he never got much in the way of results if he did ride.


Is he that far off what he was doing in those days in terms of race days assuming he rides Gila and California before the Suisse?

 

[eleven]

Just seems like a waste of a GT opportunity for a lot of riders who could use the experience (e.g., JB, Machado).

I thought they were slotted for the Vuelta, no?

 

[Mellow Velo]

What was Lance's race schedule like pre-retirement?
Is he that far off what he was doing in those days in terms of race days assuming he rides Gila and California before the Suisse?

Isn't that the point though?
A bare handful of serious race days, 38 years old, business commitments all over the place and he's still expected to just turn up at the Tour and race to win, or get close.

Don't you just wonder, or is it just a sad indictment of the quality of yet another peloton generation?

 

[kurtinsc]

Isn't that the point though?
A bare handful of serious race days, 38 years old, business commitments all over the place and he's still expected to just turn up at the Tour and race to win, or get close.

Don't you just wonder, or is it just a sad indictment of the quality of yet another peloton generation?

I'm not sure where you are going with that.

If it's the doping angle... I accept that all riders who finish high dope... so I pretty much disregard it just like I do in other sports.

If you're implying that he should be training more now that he's older... I'm not sure how that works. Is that normal for riders, or is it proven to be better to race less so as to "save your legs"? I know in some sports, age doesn't seem to impact peak performance so much as lower the amount of time you can be at that peak. The body tends to degrade and get injured more as you age. Does cycling follow that pattern, or is it more a matter of getting more days under your belt in order to reach a peak then you'd need when younger?

If you're commenting about the quality of the riders other then Lance... I'm not sure it's hugeley different. I don't think anyone in Lance's prime was at Contador levels, but they were a pretty talented bunch.

 

[Publicus]

What was Lance's race schedule like pre-retirement?

I know he usually did either the Dauphine Libere or Suisse before the tour, and he'd usually ride Flanders and 1-2 of the Ardennes classics (maybe just Amstel Gold most years). He always seemed to show up at the larger US races (California and Georgia).

But other than that... did he do much racing? I know he rode Paris-Nice at least once... but I don't know if he was regularly riding P-N or T-A. I know he never got much in the way of results if he did ride.


Is he that far off what he was doing in those days in terms of race days assuming he rides Gila and California before the Suisse?

Don't really know. I do know that he is much older than his pre-retirement days. I do know that the bio passport now exists and did not in his pre-retirement days. That he hasn't had much in the way of racing in the last four years. That contrary to his pronouncements in this past off-season and earlier this year, he will likely race FEWER kilometers in 2010 than in 2009. That he has not appeared stronger this year, despite having a year of racing under his belt.

 

[Publicus]

I don't think anyone in Lance's prime was at Contador levels, but they were a pretty talented bunch.

Think about that statement and then thinking about his lack of training/racing. He's not really acting like a guy going up against a guy who is at above the level of any he faced in his pre-retirement days. One would think he would be approaching this differently. At least on the surface, but that's not what we are seeing.

Maybe it is a different approach and it will bear fruit at the Tour of Suisse (he's not doing the Dauphine--no way he's racing AC up Alpe d'Huez) and subsequently at the TdF. I'm not confident that it will, but stranger things have definitely happened.

 

[Publicus]

I thought they were slotted for the Vuelta, no?

I was speaking about the Giro.

 

[Tangled Tango]

I know this is kinda off topic, but I'd like to pursue it a little to say that I've had the misfortune of going to a Radio Shack after the team was created. (My mom & stepdad were in town visiting and needed some attachment adapter or other.)

I actually expected to see some Armstrong-related advertising, but there was nothing. Note that I live in Austin, the man's hometown, and still: nothing.

I was a big T-mobile fan back in the day, too (still have T-mobile service). I actually tried in 2005 to get some Jan-related content for my phone (wallpapers, etc) but couldn't find anything, not even through T-mobile's official website.

I know that T-mobile's cycling sponsorship was targeted at Euros (Germans in particular), but I thought it was odd that cycling-related content and marketing weren't available to people in the US--even if they were TRYING to find it, as I was.

It seems RS is doing the same thing with Armstrong and the rest of the team now, only it's a little worse b/c Armstrong would appeal more to the US market than the largely German T-mobile squad did, and this is his hometown! I know that cycling sponsorship is peanuts to these big companies, but it still seems silly to not capitalize as much as possible in every investment you make as a company. (Especially when contrasted with Michelob Ultra; I see two Armstrong billboards [one running, one cycling] on my commute everyday.)

Very strange.

Strange indeed. I remember the Indurain/Banesto days in Spain. You could go into a Banesto bank and leave with a nice big signed poster of Big Mig. You´d think RS would be more on the ball considering what a hero they have at their advertising disposal.

 

[kurtinsc]

Think about that statement and then thinking about his lack of training/racing. He's not really acting like a guy going up against a guy who is at above the level of any he faced in his pre-retirement days. One would think he would be approaching this differently. At least on the surface, but that's not what we are seeing.

Maybe it is a different approach and it will bear fruit at the Tour of Suisse (he's not doing the Dauphine--no way he's racing AC up Alpe d'Huez) and subsequently at the TdF. I'm not confident that it will, but stranger things have definitely happened.

I don't know how to judge his training vs. past years. We take on faith that he was spending a ton of time training before... but it's not like today where everything is reported as it happens via twitter or some other media. For all I know he might have been sunning himself for the most part then gotten a chemical boost before the tour. We can guess he's carrying a bit more weight then he was back then based on "gut shots" people have shown... but he already seemed to have shed some of that by RVV.

As for racing... I tend to think of the whole "old dog/new tricks" saying. I tend to think that in his mind he thinks the way he did it pre-retirement is the best way to do it... regardless of his age. Last year probably reinforced that to him... he raced hard in a big race (the Giro)... and he lost in the tour.


I don't know if it will help him... but I don't necessarily think his lack of race days is any huge indicator at this point. I may be wrong... but it doesn't seem all that different from what he did when he was winning. He may just be following what he believes to be a winning formula... even if it turns out not to be the best path he could have chosen.

 

[kurtinsc]

Don't really know. I do know that he is much older than his pre-retirement days. I do know that the bio passport now exists and did not in his pre-retirement days. That he hasn't had much in the way of racing in the last four years. That contrary to his pronouncements in this past off-season and earlier this year, he will likely race FEWER kilometers in 2010 than in 2009. That he has not appeared stronger this year, despite having a year of racing under his belt.

Just one question... has he appeared weaker this year compared to where he was last year at this time.

To be honest... I can't remember anything of note he did prior to breaking his collarbone. It wasn't until May at the Giro he really showed anything that I remember... but I'll admit I can't remember much about pre-Giro races with him last year.

Did he have anything resembling a top 20 finish in any of his races before this point last year?

 

[luckyboy]

Did he have anything resembling a top 20 finish in any of his races before this point last year?

20/01/2009 120th Tour Down Under, Stage 1 : Norwood - Mawson Lakes
21/01/2009 45th Tour Down Under, Stage 2 : Hahndorf - Stirling
22/01/2009 32nd Tour Down Under, Stage 3 : Unley - Victor Harbor
23/01/2009 47th Tour Down Under, Stage 4 : Burnside Village - Angaston
24/01/2009 23rd Tour Down Under, Stage 5 : Snapper Point - Willunga
25/01/2009 71st Tour Down Under, Stage 6 : Adelaide Circuit
25/01/2009 29th Tour Down Under, Overall
14/02/2009 10th Tour of California, Prologue : Sacramento ITT
15/02/2009 5th Tour of California, Stage 1 : Davis - Santa Rosa
16/02/2009 13th Tour of California, Stage 2 : Sausalito - Santa Cruz
17/02/2009 65th Tour of California, Stage 3 : San José - Modesto
18/02/2009 81st Tour of California, Stage 4 : Merced - Clovis
19/02/2009 19th Tour of California, Stage 5 : Visalia - Paso Robles
20/02/2009 14th Tour of California, Stage 6 : Solvang ITT
21/02/2009 44th Tour of California, Stage 7 : San Clarita - Pasadena
22/02/2009 31st Tour of California, Stage 8 : Rancho Bernardo - Escondido
22/02/2009 7th Tour of California, Overall
21/03/2009 125th Milano - Sanremo
23/03/2009 DNF Vuelta a Castilla y Leon, Stage 1 : Paredes De Nava - Baltanas
29/04/2009 8th Tour of the Gila, Stage 1 : Silver City - Silver City
30/04/2009 27th Tour of the Gila, Stage 2 : ?
01/05/2009 3rd Tour of the Gila, Stage 3 : ? ITT
02/05/2009 11th Tour of the Gila, Stage 4 : ? Crit
03/05/2009 2nd Tour of the Gila, Stage 5 : Silver City - Silver City
03/05/2009 2nd Tour of the Gila, Overall



19/01/2010 46th Tour Down Under, Stage 1 : Clare - Tanunda
20/01/2010 48th Tour Down Under, Stage 2 : Gawler - Hahndorf
21/01/2010 30th Tour Down Under, Stage 3 : Unley - Stirling
22/01/2010 50th Tour Down Under, Stage 4 : Norwood - Goolwa
23/01/2010 33rd Tour Down Under, Stage 5 : Snapper Point - Willunga
24/01/2010 77th Tour Down Under, Stage 6 : Adelaide - Adelaide
24/01/2010 25th Tour Down Under, Overall
03/03/2010 46th Vuelta a la Region de Murcia, Stage 1 : San Pedro del Pinatar - San Pedro del Pinatar
04/03/2010 35th Vuelta a la Region de Murcia, Stage 2 : Calasparra - Caravaca de la Cruz
05/03/2010 26th Vuelta a la Region de Murcia, Stage 3 : Las Torres de Cotillas - Alhama de Murcia
06/03/2010 8th Vuelta a la Region de Murcia, Stage 4 : Alhama de Murcia - Alhama de Murcia ITT
07/03/2010 66th Vuelta a la Region de Murcia, Stage 5 : Murcia - Murcia
07/03/2010 7th Vuelta a la Region de Murcia
26/03/2010 50th Critérium International, Stage 1 : Porto-Vecchio - Col de l'Ospedale
27/03/2010 24th Critérium International, Stage 2 : Porto-Vecchio - Porto Vecchio
28/03/2010 15th Critérium International, Stage 3 : Porto-Vecchio ITT
28/03/2010 47th Critérium International
04/04/2010 27th Ronde van Vlaanderen
07/04/2010 DNS Circuit de la Sarthe - Pays de la Loire, Stage 2 : Varades - Angers


Without Cali, his start to last year would've looked pathetic. Ronde is his only saving grace so far IMO. Well, not saving grace, but the only race he has been above average/surprised some.

Also, what the **** happened in Feb this year?

 

[Publicus]

I don't know how to judge his training vs. past years. We take on faith that he was spending a ton of time training before... but it's not like today where everything is reported as it happens via twitter or some other media. For all I know he might have been sunning himself for the most part then gotten a chemical boost before the tour. We can guess he's carrying a bit more weight then he was back then based on "gut shots" people have shown... but he already seemed to have shed some of that by RVV.

As for racing... I tend to think of the whole "old dog/new tricks" saying. I tend to think that in his mind he thinks the way he did it pre-retirement is the best way to do it... regardless of his age. Last year probably reinforced that to him... he raced hard in a big race (the Giro)... and he lost in the tour.


I don't know if it will help him... but I don't necessarily think his lack of race days is any huge indicator at this point. I may be wrong... but it doesn't seem all that different from what he did when he was winning. He may just be following what he believes to be a winning formula... even if it turns out not to be the best path he could have chosen.

There's probably a great deal of truth to what you say here. He is probably doing what he thinks is best. That being said, I do recall, during my fanboy days (yes, I was one ), being beat over the head ever so gently with the notion that Lance trained harder, longer and more effectively than ANYONE. That that, plus his high cadence, were what separate him for the peloton. In short, he was more dedicated than anyone else.

I guess my point was if he is really facing a much more complete rider today than he did in his pre-retirement, one would think we would see some manifestation of that greater dedication. Maybe it's all been a ruse, but there is very little objective evidence to support this notion that he is a more dedicated cyclist/trainer than AC. Maybe that's an unfair comparison, but it's who Lance aspires to beat and so he is his measuring stick. How he expects to beat him with his current training and racing schedule is beyond me. He needs to be stronger in the mountains (no real climbing in his schedule, save Stage 6 of the ToC) and the TT (no real TT in his schedule except the ToC and possibly what they have at the Tour of Switzerland).

Just one question... has he appeared weaker this year compared to where he was last year at this time.

No, which was never the point. The contention that was made by him, JB, Carmichael and others on these forum pages was that he would be STRONGER. So the real question is has he looked STRONGER this year. To date, I would say the answer is a resounding no. But it's early. It's only April.

 

[Boeing]

There's probably a great deal of truth to what you say here. He is probably doing what he thinks is best. That being said, I do recall, during my fanboy days (yes, I was one ), being beat over the head ever so gently with the notion that Lance trained harder, longer and more effectively than ANYONE. That that, plus his high cadence, were what separate him for the peloton. In short, he was more dedicated than anyone else.

I guess my point was if he is really facing a much more complete rider today than he did in his pre-retirement, one would think we would see some manifestation of that greater dedication. Maybe it's all been a ruse, but there is very little objective evidence to support this notion that he is a more dedicated cyclist/trainer than AC. Maybe that's an unfair comparison, but it's who Lance aspires to beat and so he is his measuring stick. How he expects to beat him with his current training and racing schedule is beyond me. He needs to be stronger in the mountains (no real climbing in his schedule, save Stage 6 of the ToC) and the TT (no real TT in his schedule except the ToC and possibly what they have at the Tour of Switzerland).



No, which was never the point. The contention that was made by him, JB, Carmichael and others on these forum pages was that he would be STRONGER. So the real question is has he looked STRONGER this year. To date, I would say the answer is a resounding no. But it's early. It's only April.

BOth of you sum up many of my thoughts

The one ting about Lance Armstrong we have learned is that he is well informed and calculated with a meticulous schedule at every level of his training and fitness.

His current 'race' schedule on the surface and based on my limited knowledge, seems to contradict

Perhaps he doesn't put a lot of stock into race training at this age given the intensity and recovery required. Perhaps now he doesn't make a huge distinction between his training and racing for fitness.

For that matter Radio Shack itself hasn't had many hard efforts in anything this season so far except Horner last week.

Again against the norm as I know it.

However I do know how hard it is to recover at as we age and how difficult it is to time your peak. Not that my personal experience is anywhere near this level Iim just saying

 

[Mellow Velo]

What sort of speeds do the Gila peloton race at? I've no idea. Is it around the 37kph mark?
If so, I'm trying to figure out whether if Armstrong is animated, he's racing within a training ride, or if he sits mid peloton, he's training at a training ride.

Or, if the speeds are similar to say Romandie, which is on at the same time, with speeds around the 41kph mark, whereby he's either racing, or training in a proper racing environment.