Rafal Majka discussion thread

[Jspear]

You are completely discounting the 2014 in which Rafal was in top shape pretty much from April to late August.

I am not saying that Quintana's recovery isn't good. All I am saying is that there is no evidence for it so far.
Unless you claim that 4th in Vuelta with this field is close to his top level? And if it isnt then it means he cant ride 2 consecutive GTs at or near his best level, therefore his recovery is suspect.

There is just no evidence that he can hold his top shape for more than 1 week, it is actually quite opposite.
Just look at the difference between PSM and Alpe. Dont you think that someone with good recovery would be able to at least hold the peak for 2 weeks?

As I said, I am not going to pretend I can discuss Valverde here. This guy is just out of this world, an outlier

Riding a Giro for GC, winning 2 stages at the Tour, then winning WT race right after a Tour, going on across ocean to top 5 another race is a clear indication of great recovery.

Don't you see your double standard?! This doesn't show greater recovery! In the Tour he was able to RELAX and then go on to win two stages. That isn't the ultimate test for "the best recovery out of the current gt riders." Then if you want to talk about Quintana's competition in the Vuelta, you must also talk about the competition (or the lack thereof) in the ToP and the Pro Challenge. Like I said - does he have good recovery? Yes. But there are riders (such as Quintana, Valverde) that have shown better.

It shows a good recovery. You are missing the point here. You are not correcting for rider's top level. Good recovery does not equal best cyclist in 2nd GT.
And competition in Tour de Pologne was very strong for the route they had. Majka beat people there in their own disciplines. It was a hilly race in which he was not favored, in which he won 2 stages and then held on in TT. All of that after riding 2 GTs.
When it comes to Tour de France then he was in a breakaway multiple days, on two ocassions(the stage in which he finished 2nd behind Nibali and 3rd behind Nibali and Pinot) he has shown that he is one of the best climbers there. And after that 2nd place he went on to a huge breakaway win. Throughout last 10 days I think there was only 1 stage he took it easy in.

Also, if you look at his career, 2nd GT is usually better for him. He had higher top level in TdF 2014 than in Giro 2014 (although stomache issues had something to do with that), and was better in Vuelta 2015 than in Tour 2015.

Quintana was worse in Vuelta 2014 than in Giro 2014. He was worse in Vuelta 2015 than in Tour 2015. Also, didn't ride a packed schedules prior or past those races.


Quintana is a superior cyclist, has much better top level. He does not have a better recovery though. There is absolutely no evidence for that.

Just to make sure you understood: peaking for 3rd week after bleeding time in first two does not mean you have a better recovery than others, although that seems to be a message regarding Quintana

Perhaps he had a higher top level in the 2014 Tour. Recovery certainly played a part in this, but did you ever stop to think it could also have been 1. he wasn't sick (as he was in the Giro) 2. he soft pedaled in the early parts of the Tour. I've already said this, but you seem to be ignoring it. This doesn't count as showing great recovery. He was relaxing when you compare those early stages to what he was actually capable of doing.

In the 2015 Vuelta, same thing - of course his level was higher. He had an "easier" Tour. Only showing himself at certain times. You have to understand this style of riding (1 gt for gc, another for stagehunting) is easier (when it comes to recovery) than riding two gt's for gc.

 

[Jspear]

Re:

When did Quintana show that he can hold his own good level longer than Majka?

And if you remember correctly he got the red because of TTT and got dropped on a first incline. And then had really poor first (uphill) section of ITT before crashing on an easy, dry turn.
You seriously can not consider that a show of good form?
He is never good in first 2 weeks and only peaks for third. Why would someone with good recovery do that instead of holding peak for longer?

Are you so sure that Majka could go for GC in two gt's the way Quintana does/has?

 

[damian13ster]

You are completely discounting the 2014 in which Rafal was in top shape pretty much from April to late August.

I am not saying that Quintana's recovery isn't good. All I am saying is that there is no evidence for it so far.
Unless you claim that 4th in Vuelta with this field is close to his top level? And if it isnt then it means he cant ride 2 consecutive GTs at or near his best level, therefore his recovery is suspect.

There is just no evidence that he can hold his top shape for more than 1 week, it is actually quite opposite.
Just look at the difference between PSM and Alpe. Dont you think that someone with good recovery would be able to at least hold the peak for 2 weeks?

As I said, I am not going to pretend I can discuss Valverde here. This guy is just out of this world, an outlier

Riding a Giro for GC, winning 2 stages at the Tour, then winning WT race right after a Tour, going on across ocean to top 5 another race is a clear indication of great recovery.

Don't you see your double standard?! This doesn't show greater recovery! In the Tour he was able to RELAX and then go on to win two stages. That isn't the ultimate test for "the best recovery out of the current gt riders." Then if you want to talk about Quintana's competition in the Vuelta, you must also talk about the competition (or the lack thereof) in the ToP and the Pro Challenge. Like I said - does he have good recovery? Yes. But there are riders (such as Quintana, Valverde) that have shown better.

It shows a good recovery. You are missing the point here. You are not correcting for rider's top level. Good recovery does not equal best cyclist in 2nd GT.
And competition in Tour de Pologne was very strong for the route they had. Majka beat people there in their own disciplines. It was a hilly race in which he was not favored, in which he won 2 stages and then held on in TT. All of that after riding 2 GTs.
When it comes to Tour de France then he was in a breakaway multiple days, on two ocassions(the stage in which he finished 2nd behind Nibali and 3rd behind Nibali and Pinot) he has shown that he is one of the best climbers there. And after that 2nd place he went on to a huge breakaway win. Throughout last 10 days I think there was only 1 stage he took it easy in.

Also, if you look at his career, 2nd GT is usually better for him. He had higher top level in TdF 2014 than in Giro 2014 (although stomache issues had something to do with that), and was better in Vuelta 2015 than in Tour 2015.

Quintana was worse in Vuelta 2014 than in Giro 2014. He was worse in Vuelta 2015 than in Tour 2015. Also, didn't ride a packed schedules prior or past those races.


Quintana is a superior cyclist, has much better top level. He does not have a better recovery though. There is absolutely no evidence for that.

Just to make sure you understood: peaking for 3rd week after bleeding time in first two does not mean you have a better recovery than others, although that seems to be a message regarding Quintana

Perhaps he had a higher top level in the 2014 Tour. Recovery certainly played a part in this, but did you ever stop to think it could also have been 1. he wasn't sick (as he was in the Giro) 2. he soft pedaled in the early parts of the Tour. I've already said this, but you seem to be ignoring it. This doesn't count as showing great recovery. He was relaxing when you compare those early stages to what he was actually capable of doing.

In the 2015 Vuelta, same thing - of course his level was higher. He had an "easier" Tour. Only showing himself at certain times. You have to understand this style of riding (1 gt for gc, another for stagehunting) is easier (when it comes to recovery) than riding two gt's for gc.

Of course it is easier. But then to go on and win a WT race AFTER completing that 2nd GT in which you were in the top on pretty much all MTFs, including couple of solo rides from breakaways?

I am still waiting on any evidence that Quintana can hold his peak for longer......

 

[damian13ster]

Re: Re:

When did Quintana show that he can hold his own good level longer than Majka?

And if you remember correctly he got the red because of TTT and got dropped on a first incline. And then had really poor first (uphill) section of ITT before crashing on an easy, dry turn.
You seriously can not consider that a show of good form?
He is never good in first 2 weeks and only peaks for third. Why would someone with good recovery do that instead of holding peak for longer?

Are you so sure that Majka could go for GC in two gt's the way Quintana does/has?

I am not sure. We will get a chance to see once Tinkoff actually lets him try.
So far just got to work with a limited data, and there is way more to show that Majka has better recovery than Quintana.
There is absolutely no evidence to the contrary

 

[Jspear]

You are completely discounting the 2014 in which Rafal was in top shape pretty much from April to late August.

I am not saying that Quintana's recovery isn't good. All I am saying is that there is no evidence for it so far.
Unless you claim that 4th in Vuelta with this field is close to his top level? And if it isnt then it means he cant ride 2 consecutive GTs at or near his best level, therefore his recovery is suspect.

There is just no evidence that he can hold his top shape for more than 1 week, it is actually quite opposite.
Just look at the difference between PSM and Alpe. Dont you think that someone with good recovery would be able to at least hold the peak for 2 weeks?

As I said, I am not going to pretend I can discuss Valverde here. This guy is just out of this world, an outlier

Riding a Giro for GC, winning 2 stages at the Tour, then winning WT race right after a Tour, going on across ocean to top 5 another race is a clear indication of great recovery.

Don't you see your double standard?! This doesn't show greater recovery! In the Tour he was able to RELAX and then go on to win two stages. That isn't the ultimate test for "the best recovery out of the current gt riders." Then if you want to talk about Quintana's competition in the Vuelta, you must also talk about the competition (or the lack thereof) in the ToP and the Pro Challenge. Like I said - does he have good recovery? Yes. But there are riders (such as Quintana, Valverde) that have shown better.

It shows a good recovery. You are missing the point here. You are not correcting for rider's top level. Good recovery does not equal best cyclist in 2nd GT.
And competition in Tour de Pologne was very strong for the route they had. Majka beat people there in their own disciplines. It was a hilly race in which he was not favored, in which he won 2 stages and then held on in TT. All of that after riding 2 GTs.
When it comes to Tour de France then he was in a breakaway multiple days, on two ocassions(the stage in which he finished 2nd behind Nibali and 3rd behind Nibali and Pinot) he has shown that he is one of the best climbers there. And after that 2nd place he went on to a huge breakaway win. Throughout last 10 days I think there was only 1 stage he took it easy in.

Also, if you look at his career, 2nd GT is usually better for him. He had higher top level in TdF 2014 than in Giro 2014 (although stomache issues had something to do with that), and was better in Vuelta 2015 than in Tour 2015.

Quintana was worse in Vuelta 2014 than in Giro 2014. He was worse in Vuelta 2015 than in Tour 2015. Also, didn't ride a packed schedules prior or past those races.


Quintana is a superior cyclist, has much better top level. He does not have a better recovery though. There is absolutely no evidence for that.

Just to make sure you understood: peaking for 3rd week after bleeding time in first two does not mean you have a better recovery than others, although that seems to be a message regarding Quintana

Perhaps he had a higher top level in the 2014 Tour. Recovery certainly played a part in this, but did you ever stop to think it could also have been 1. he wasn't sick (as he was in the Giro) 2. he soft pedaled in the early parts of the Tour. I've already said this, but you seem to be ignoring it. This doesn't count as showing great recovery. He was relaxing when you compare those early stages to what he was actually capable of doing.

In the 2015 Vuelta, same thing - of course his level was higher. He had an "easier" Tour. Only showing himself at certain times. You have to understand this style of riding (1 gt for gc, another for stagehunting) is easier (when it comes to recovery) than riding two gt's for gc.

Of course it is easier. But then to go on and win a WT race AFTER completing that 2nd GT in which you were in the top on pretty much all MTFs, including couple of solo rides from breakaways?

I am still waiting on any evidence that Quintana can hold his peak for longer......

The bold: We are going to have to agree to disagree on this issue. You think the competition was strong, I don't. This win wasn't otherly imo.

Quintana gave you evidence this year. He placed 2nd and 4th in back to back gt's. In the last he was sick for parts of it. If you don't see that as good recovery, than there is no such thing as recovery I guess.

By your standards of recovery you should consider Jrod as the gt rider with the best recovery. He won two stages in the Tour and then went on to place 2nd in the Vuelta. Better than your man Majka. Surely he has better recovery right?

 

[damian13ster]

First:
Just 12 seconds separated Majka and JRod in Vuelta, and Majka was better at the business end of the race. Crash on stage 2 affected early Vuelta performance.

Second:
Rodriguez was never close with contending group once he didn't enter a breakaway.

Third:
He didn't have to play a domestique at any point in the race


And to Quintana:
The only real GT podium contender he beat in a Vuelta is Valverde, who had 85 race days at the end of Vuelta.
And he did it pretty much by the same time margin he had at the Tour.
This is not an indicative of a good recovery. Quite on a contrary, For a rider with such a high top level in the mountains, it clearly shows that he was nowhere near his best, therefore his recovery is suspect. And that is despite having over 2000km less and 9 race days less than Valverde, and 1500 km less and 9 race days less than Majka.

You are not helping yourself. There is absolutely zero evidence that Quintana's recovery is better than Majka's

 

[Jspear]

Re:

First:
Just 12 seconds separated Majka and JRod in Vuelta, and Majka was better at the business end of the race. Crash on stage 2 affected early Vuelta performance.

Second:
Rodriguez was never close with contending group once he didn't enter a breakaway.

Third:
He didn't have to play a domestique at any point in the race


And to Quintana:
The only real GT podium contender he beat in a Vuelta is Valverde, who had 85 race days at the end of Vuelta.
And he did it pretty much by the same time margin he had at the Tour.
This is not an indicative of a good recovery. Quite on a contrary, For a rider with such a high top level in the mountains, it clearly shows that he was nowhere near his best, therefore his recovery is suspect. And that is despite having over 2000km less and 9 race days less than Valverde, and 1500 km less and 9 race days less than Majka.

You are not helping yourself. There is absolutely zero evidence that Quintana's recovery is better than Majka's

We will have to agree to disagree. IMO the things you're bringing up aren't real points like simply saying "Majka was better at the business end of the race" whatever that means it put him at 3rd. I'm sure somethings I'm saying don't make sense to you as well. Cheers.

 

[damian13ster]

Re: Re:

First:
Just 12 seconds separated Majka and JRod in Vuelta, and Majka was better at the business end of the race. Crash on stage 2 affected early Vuelta performance.

Second:
Rodriguez was never close with contending group once he didn't enter a breakaway.

Third:
He didn't have to play a domestique at any point in the race


And to Quintana:
The only real GT podium contender he beat in a Vuelta is Valverde, who had 85 race days at the end of Vuelta.
And he did it pretty much by the same time margin he had at the Tour.
This is not an indicative of a good recovery. Quite on a contrary, For a rider with such a high top level in the mountains, it clearly shows that he was nowhere near his best, therefore his recovery is suspect. And that is despite having over 2000km less and 9 race days less than Valverde, and 1500 km less and 9 race days less than Majka.

You are not helping yourself. There is absolutely zero evidence that Quintana's recovery is better than Majka's

We will have to agree to disagree. IMO the things you're bringing up aren't real points like simply saying "Majka was better at the business end of the race" whatever that means it put him at 3rd. I'm sure somethings I'm saying don't make sense to you as well. Cheers.

We will have to disagree then.
Just notice that I am putting actual facts and arguments up, while you seem to have none (at least none that are supported by facts).
How is showing the mileage, days raced, and then results + circumstances not making a real points?

Also, just to add to a discussion: Rodriguez had less race days (by over a week on the bike) than Majka as well.
All of them other than Valverde were more fresh than Rafal

 

[LaFlorecita]

Surely how you race those race days is more important than the exact number of race days?

 

[damian13ster]

To some extent, yes. But number of races and kms is a very important factor, and has to be considered. Also, if you go through the Tour stages, you notice that there are only 3-4 stages (Utrecht, Huy, Bretagne and 1-2 more flat/hilly stages) in which Majka didnt have to do any work or wasn't in a breakaway.
Especially since Majka actually beat Quintana even though he is a worst climber.
Therefore the difference in recovery was VERY significant.

 

[alspacka]

Re:

First:
Just 12 seconds separated Majka and JRod in Vuelta, and Majka was better at the business end of the race. Crash on stage 2 affected early Vuelta performance.

Second:
Rodriguez was never close with contending group once he didn't enter a breakaway.

Third:
He didn't have to play a domestique at any point in the race


And to Quintana:
The only real GT podium contender he beat in a Vuelta is Valverde, who had 85 race days at the end of Vuelta.
And he did it pretty much by the same time margin he had at the Tour.
This is not an indicative of a good recovery. Quite on a contrary, For a rider with such a high top level in the mountains, it clearly shows that he was nowhere near his best, therefore his recovery is suspect. And that is despite having over 2000km less and 9 race days less than Valverde, and 1500 km less and 9 race days less than Majka.

You are not helping yourself. There is absolutely zero evidence that Quintana's recovery is better than Majka's

Being better in the third week means nothing for Nairo but is significant for Majka?

I thought Valverde is an outlier and comparison with him is pointless?

No slight on Majka, he is strong and determined, but there is some hypocrisy here and I agree with others that until he rides consecutive (same season) GTs for gc it is futile to judge against eg Quintana.

 

[damian13ster]

Yes, because Majka crashed. His form wasn't off because he only peaks for 3-4 days, which Quintana does.
And not only in 2nd GT, but he also does it in main target. If you had such a good recovery why would you peak just for 3-4 stages?

It is obvious for pretty much everyone that Quintana loses TdF because his peak is not long enough and he bleeds time throughout first 2 weeks, and then only in the last one recovers some portion of it.
Do you seriously thing that this is because he is an idiot and doesnt realize that, or because he is just not capable of holding his peak for longer and therefore chooses to peak for last mountain stages?

 

[damian13ster]

Majka not entirely satisfied with Vuelta performance, but saying that now a GT podium will be a minimum target in each race he enters as a leader.
Says he gets stronger every year so in 2-3 years he wants to fight for victory.
Not entirely happy with last season, overtrained at the beginning which got him down a bit, both physically and mentally.

Took a month off without even looking at a bike, feels rested and ready for training camp.
Training less than last season, will increase loads over time. Really happy about working with Patxi Vila
All signs point towards him riding the Tour, Rio is a target, however GT in which he will be a leader (think it will be Giro but not stated out loud) will be the main goal of a season.

Going to check out Olympic route after San Luis

Not thinking about changing the team yet, but says he might reconsider after the contract runs out. Will have to come as a package deal with Poljanski though

 

[greenedge]

[quote="

Don't you see your double standard?! This doesn't show greater recovery! In the Tour he was able to RELAX and then go on to win two stages. That isn't the ultimate test for "the best recovery out of the current gt riders." Then if you want to talk about Quintana's competition in the Vuelta, you must also talk about the competition (or the lack thereof) in the ToP and the Pro Challenge. Like I said - does he have good recovery? Yes. But there are riders (such as Quintana, Valverde) that have shown better.

To be fair he got two other podiums as well, so he wasn't just soft-pedalling the whole TDF. On the other mountain stages that he didn't podium he rode for Contador and had Rogers win the other stage.
I agree with the rest of what you say.
I think out of all the riders Valverde has the best recovery in terms of a season. Contador has the best in terms of stringing together two GT's, Quintana the best within a GT (because of his third week peak). Majka however does seem to have very good recovery, maybe not on Valverde's and Quintana's level but one that is very high nevertheless.

 

[damian13ster]

From an interview for Polish newspaper:

http://krakow.wyborcza.pl/krakow/1,42699,19326485,cel-wygrac-wielki-tour-rafal-majka-o-sukcesach-swietach-i.html

Self-admitted problem with keeping a diet during offseason. Very strict during season though.

Currently 2.5kg off of his ideal weight.
Apparently with Kilimanjaro trip and a wedding he didn't have time to rest prior to 2015, hence weaker results.
Says that it is good that there was no trip like that this season.
More rest now, and starting to seriously train at the moment (later than in 2014/2015), so expects to be better in first half of the season.

Apparently weights 59kg at 4% body fat.
Gets tested around 40 times per season
Its official now that he will go to TdF, but apparently not sure if he will lead at Giro or Vuelta?

Likes Tinkoff, and although he is eccentric, he has some really good ideas about cycling.

 

[LaFlorecita]

4% BF, that's insane

 

[damian13ster]

It is. Poljanski apparently is at 3-4% during peak form as well. Crazy. But thats what it takes I guess

 

[hfer07]

When Tinkoff folds..........
Majka to Katusha?????

 

[greenedge]

Hopefully CCC would be able to sign him as part of a bid to go WT.

 

[staubsauger]

Majka + Poljanski & Hirt for the mountains + Paterski as a workhorse wouldn't be too bad for the beginning.

 

[Velolover2]

Re:

When Tinkoff folds..........
Majka to Katusha?????

Astana if Nibali goes to Trek.

Majka and Aru would be a nice, long-lasting combo.

 

[Wind in hair]

Re:

Rafal is my new favorite cyclist

Rafał Majka just a climber &#10153 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OwA5_qNvaIs

 

[Red Rick]

Bump. Showed some dedication to Contador this weekend. Like his style of pulling. Majka rather beats up than strangle the group. Whats his programme the rest of the year?

 

[HelloDolly]

I have ot say he was a great help to Contador at Paris Nice...He is more of a steady climber rather than one with explosive power but he gave it his all

 

[Vino attacks everyone]

Indeed, it reminded me of The Armstrong - Popo combo back in mid 2000's