Random French guys ripping up the Tour

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Re: Re:

Benotti69 said:
Sure hard working clean riders can beat hard working dopers!

Cant see a clean rider crashing and chasing back near the end of a monument with the Poggio climbed very fast this time

2016:5,7 km@4,1%---10:07---average speed 33.81 km/h(Stannard-Visconti)

2008:5,7 km@4,1%---10:08---average speed 33.75 km/h(Bettini-Rebellin-Lovkvist-Axelsson)
Well, according to riders, there was a good amount of tailwind today. Yes, tailwind :rolleyes: , like we haven't seen that one before. But maybe it's true this time around. And that would explain how so many guys were still around. And why chasing was possible without paying too big of a price. Also, times on such a short climb/effort aren't indicative of anything.

That's not to say that FDJ's good start of the season isn't better than expected. Or that we shouldn't watch closely. But I'm not ready to scream "bloody murder" every time someone wins something either.
 
May 26, 2010
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Re: Re:

Tonton said:
Benotti69 said:
Sure hard working clean riders can beat hard working dopers!

Cant see a clean rider crashing and chasing back near the end of a monument with the Poggio climbed very fast this time

2016:5,7 km@4,1%---10:07---average speed 33.81 km/h(Stannard-Visconti)

2008:5,7 km@4,1%---10:08---average speed 33.75 km/h(Bettini-Rebellin-Lovkvist-Axelsson)
Well, according to riders, there was a good amount of tailwind today. Yes, tailwind :rolleyes: , like we haven't seen that one before. But maybe it's true this time around. And that would explain how so many guys were still around. And why chasing was possible without paying too big of a price. Also, times on such a short climb/effort aren't indicative of anything.

That's not to say that FDJ's good start of the season isn't better than expected. Or that we shouldn't watch closely. But I'm not ready to scream "bloody murder" every time someone wins something either.
"Bloody murder"? WTF are you getting that from?

Testing is a joke and years and years behind and somehow a tailwind means a clean rider can win a race after 300kms even after having to chase back on after crashing and then climb with dopers at a very fast pace.

No one is screaming "Burn the Witches", but FFS lets not pretend. The French don't dope? Since when?
 
Re: Re:

Benotti69 said:
Tonton said:
Benotti69 said:
Sure hard working clean riders can beat hard working dopers!

Cant see a clean rider crashing and chasing back near the end of a monument with the Poggio climbed very fast this time

2016:5,7 km@4,1%---10:07---average speed 33.81 km/h(Stannard-Visconti)

2008:5,7 km@4,1%---10:08---average speed 33.75 km/h(Bettini-Rebellin-Lovkvist-Axelsson)
Well, according to riders, there was a good amount of tailwind today. Yes, tailwind :rolleyes: , like we haven't seen that one before. But maybe it's true this time around. And that would explain how so many guys were still around. And why chasing was possible without paying too big of a price. Also, times on such a short climb/effort aren't indicative of anything.

That's not to say that FDJ's good start of the season isn't better than expected. Or that we shouldn't watch closely. But I'm not ready to scream "bloody murder" every time someone wins something either.
"Bloody murder"? WTF are you getting that from?

Testing is a joke and years and years behind and somehow a tailwind means a clean rider can win a race after 300kms even after having to chase back on after crashing and then climb with dopers at a very fast pace.

No one is screaming "Burn the Witches", but FFS lets not pretend. The French don't dope? Since when?
Sorry if I woke you up Benotti69 :p . You must have an alarm/notification every time something is posted on The Clinic ;) . You know me better than that. Remember?

Of course the French dope, at least some (most?) of them.

BTW screaming bloody murder is an expletive. As I said before, I can, have, would, and will denounce anybody without regards for citizenship if they smell like rats. I have a bad record, I admit it, I believed in Lance for one year (no more, unlike many on CN), I'm willing to believe the post-ban Virenque (different from post-Festina) was clean(ish?), and I believe in Thibaut Pinot. But having been burnt in the past, I remain vigilant.

According to the riders themselves, it was a fairly easy edition due to tailwinds. Headwinds would have been a very different story wrt chasing. You know it if you ride. So I'm not making a case one way or another. I just want to make a point that we have to be careful: if a Delion wins the GDL, you would call him a doper. He was not.

Let's not get too carried away. Afaic, if Pinot beats Froome, I'll call him a fraud. What I see is nothing so far. Would the FDJ team dope and not their leader? There were theories here about how you could get the rest of the team to dope, give so much support that a clean leader can win. It would be sad and really twisted, but possible.

Let's no jump on every bone Benotti69. Not yet.
 
Oct 10, 2015
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thehog said:
Random French guys ripping up the classics?
I can't see how it's possible that Demare is clean but he's not just some random French guy is he? He's always looked like winning a big race
 
FDJ has shown some impressive TTing. This is with the same riders, managers, trainers. Obviously something has changed drastically and that too teamwide as improvement is in the entire team. Could be doping but not so sure but definitely some medical help.
As far as MSR performance is considered, this year's MSR was a regular but long sprinter's stage with some hills. With people like Gaviria et al there, this was simply not hard enough and performance wise not enough to prove any doping.
 
Jan 30, 2016
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Demare is just another case of mechanical doping. There is probably a big hidden engine in one of the team cars.
 
Re:

Benotti69 said:
Demare showing the transparency one has come to expect from those who dont cheat........
Hanging onto cars, disappearing data, maybe we have the next French winner of the TdF right there :D . Well, as things unfold, I feel relieved that he never went at 80 km/h, his max on the Cipressa was at the top at 52 km/h, when Yates went at 54 km/h. Consistent cadence and speed, no peaks or gaps. He drafted, admittedly had a bottle (coated with pine tar ;) ), but not what was first reported. I admit I was becoming skeptical. I'm open minded, not a blind fan anymore: Virenque took care of that.
 
Re: Re:

Tonton said:
Benotti69 said:
Demare showing the transparency one has come to expect from those who dont cheat........
Hanging onto cars, disappearing data, maybe we have the next French winner of the TdF right there :D . Well, as things unfold, I feel relieved that he never went at 80 km/h, his max on the Cipressa was at the top at 52 km/h, when Yates went at 54 km/h. Consistent cadence and speed, no peaks or gaps. He drafted, admittedly had a bottle (coated with pine tar ;) ), but not what was first reported. I admit I was becoming skeptical. I'm open minded, not a blind fan anymore: Virenque took care of that.
Actually if he didn't got a free ride from his team's car things are getting suspicious. Fastest on Cipressa, gets back, one of the first to crest Poggio with all the powerhouses and then puts in a devastating sprint after nearly 300k. A random French guy, last three years in MSR 127, 34, 129. But maybe he just hit the right peak after abandoning PN.
 
Re: Re:

Rollthedice said:
Tonton said:
Benotti69 said:
Demare showing the transparency one has come to expect from those who dont cheat........
Hanging onto cars, disappearing data, maybe we have the next French winner of the TdF right there :D . Well, as things unfold, I feel relieved that he never went at 80 km/h, his max on the Cipressa was at the top at 52 km/h, when Yates went at 54 km/h. Consistent cadence and speed, no peaks or gaps. He drafted, admittedly had a bottle (coated with pine tar ;) ), but not what was first reported. I admit I was becoming skeptical. I'm open minded, not a blind fan anymore: Virenque took care of that.
Actually if he didn't got a free ride from his team's car things are getting suspicious. Fastest on Cipressa, gets back, one of the first to crest Poggio with all the powerhouses and then puts in a devastating sprint after nearly 300k. A random French guy, last three years in MSR 127, 34, 129. But maybe he just hit the right peak after abandoning PN.
I'm starting to think that being stuck behind cars was a blessing in disguise. He drafted for 15K while the guys upfront were taking their share of wind. It could be as simple as that. He's no random BTW, but so far definitely an under-achiever. His win in PN was huge for morale, against top-notch opposition. Having said that, I understand doubts when you see how the entire team seems to be much better in '16.
 
May 26, 2010
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Demare crashed with Bling Matthews and G THomas.

Bling finished 36"(secs) back and Thomas 14+mins........

Something not right......
 
Oct 10, 2015
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Re:

Benotti69 said:
Demare crashed with Bling Matthews and G THomas.

Bling finished 36"(secs) back and Thomas 14+mins........

Something not right......
I'm not defending Demare but Thomas hit the ground hard just didn't bother to chase back on, I know Matthews bike showed some marks of hitting the ground hard but don't know if he was hurt at all.

Also Kennaugh came down in that same crash but made it right back to the front of the Peloton and helped launch Kwiatkowski but did sit up at the end and finished @36 seconds
 
Mar 6, 2009
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Re:

Benotti69 said:
Demare crashed with Bling Matthews and G THomas.

Bling finished 36"(secs) back and Thomas 14+mins........

Something not right......
I dont know about the towing but Matthews also made it back to the main group. I know just before the Poggio, it showed him at the back of the group and the commentator said it was a bad position to be in for the start of the ascent. He was isolated whilst just before, I remember seeing 3/4 FDJ riders moving up the group. Look at the results and count how many FDJ riders finished within a few minutes of the winner versus Orica riders. Maybe Matthews just didn't have the team support to get him to the front for the finale or maybe he was plain tired because he didn't get a tow.
 
May 26, 2010
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Re: Re:

King Boonen said:
Benotti69 said:
Demare's helmet had a massive FDJ clover leaf on it and I'm almost 100% certain that is no the Cipressa. It's crap like this that makes the claims laughable.
You missed the ' ? ' then.

If some find the sport unbelievable it is because nothing has changed and we know the history.

You are late to the party as the photo has been confirmed as the Turchino.

But now back to nice clean procycling and none of this 'crap'....lalalalalalalalalala
 
Re: Re:

Benotti69 said:
King Boonen said:
Benotti69 said:
Demare's helmet had a massive FDJ clover leaf on it and I'm almost 100% certain that is no the Cipressa. It's crap like this that makes the claims laughable.
You missed the ' ? ' then.

If some find the sport unbelievable it is because nothing has changed and we know the history.

You are late to the party as the photo has been confirmed as the Turchino.

But now back to nice clean procycling and none of this 'crap'....lalalalalalalalalala
No I didn't miss it. It would have taken abut 10 seconds to confirm or deny it for yourself yet you propagated a photo that is clearly not Demare because you either couldn't be bothered to look at the front page of this website or knew it wasn't him, did it anyway and stuck a question mark at the end to disguise the fact.

Many find it unbelievable, but then many will actually bother to post things that are accurate.

The last sentence just reminds me why I hardly ever bother replying to crap like this. If someone disparages the whole of the clinic because of one stupid post they are shouted down, yet this is the exact opposite. Someone points out that this is very obviously utter rubbish and suddenly they believe all pro cycling is completely clean. You can't admit you were wrong and should have actually checked, you have to try and throw mud.
 
May 26, 2010
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Re: Re:

King Boonen said:
Benotti69 said:
King Boonen said:
Benotti69 said:
Demare's helmet had a massive FDJ clover leaf on it and I'm almost 100% certain that is no the Cipressa. It's crap like this that makes the claims laughable.
You missed the ' ? ' then.

If some find the sport unbelievable it is because nothing has changed and we know the history.

You are late to the party as the photo has been confirmed as the Turchino.

But now back to nice clean procycling and none of this 'crap'....lalalalalalalalalala
No I didn't miss it. It would have taken abut 10 seconds to confirm or deny it for yourself yet you propagated a photo that is clearly not Demare because you either couldn't be bothered to look at the front page of this website or knew it wasn't him, did it anyway and stuck a question mark at the end to disguise the fact.

Many find it unbelievable, but then many will actually bother to post things that are accurate.

The last sentence just reminds me why I hardly ever bother replying to crap like this. If someone disparages the whole of the clinic because of one stupid post they are shouted down, yet this is the exact opposite. Someone points out that this is very obviously utter rubbish and suddenly they believe all pro cycling is completely clean. You can't admit you were wrong and should have actually checked, you have to try and throw mud.
There is so much 'mud' around professional sport, on does need to throw it.

A clean rider can win a Monument? Yeah sure pigs can fly.....
 
Mar 13, 2009
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Re: Re:

pmcg76 said:
Benotti69 said:
Demare crashed with Bling Matthews and G THomas.

Bling finished 36"(secs) back and Thomas 14+mins........

Something not right......
I dont know about the towing but Matthews also made it back to the main group. I know just before the Poggio, it showed him at the back of the group and the commentator said it was a bad position to be in for the start of the ascent. He was isolated whilst just before, I remember seeing 3/4 FDJ riders moving up the group. Look at the results and count how many FDJ riders finished within a few minutes of the winner versus Orica riders. Maybe Matthews just didn't have the team support to get him to the front for the finale or maybe he was plain tired because he didn't get a tow.
yeah... but, if mathews is indeed at the poggio at the same time as demare, all it is... is a matter onto hitching onto the FDJ express chain<strikethur> I mean, train, all it is a matter of is hitching the ride to the FDJ slipstream, ofcourse, the FDJ domestiques will ride to Demare's orders, not to bling mathews, or matthews.

but, with respect to a slipstream, if Demare can plough a slipstream, hazardous metaphor, then Bling can easily jump in Demare's wind.

Also matters how much the crash took out of Bling, did he not say, 50kmph, thrown into the concrete ditch/aquaduct by the side of the road at this speed. So this would have shaken his corporeal intensity, surely, devil's advocate is the trade off if he gets an adrenaline boon.
 
I don't think CN would be the same without Benotti69 ;) . With Merckx Index and Libertine, and of course LaFlo, he's one of my favorite posters. Ahahaha never felt you got cheated :p ? Everything has to be taken with a grain of salt in sports. Unfortunate but true. Since the first time that homo Sapiens decided to have a contest, the competitors have tried to figure out a way to win. Bend the rules, ignore the rules...

What Demare did on the road was legit, there's obviously a sticky bottle towards the top of the Cipressa, but considering cadence and speed, nothing else. Have you guys tried to hold on onto a car? If the answer is "yes" you also know that you didn't keep the cadence. It's more likely that you stopped pedaling. Come on!

That, to me, not on the last climb, after being stuck because of a crash you had nothing to do with is not warranting a DQ or a sanction.

Now the other point is FDJ as a whole (except Pinot actually, his ITT on TA wasn't that good - see Geniez) is doing extremely well these days. Are they sick and tired of being screwed and getting on a program like everybody else? I think that Benotti69 hints that, and as big a FDJ fan as I'm, I completely get it. And be vigilant.

If it's too good to be true...

PS: perennial Sky defenders asking for data, more data about Demare...where were they when Wiggo and Froome came out of nowhere, when Geraint Hincapie turned into a GC contender. and let's see what Ritchie Heras does in a different team...
 
Oct 10, 2015
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Re: Re:

blackcat said:
yeah... but, if mathews is indeed at the poggio at the same time as demare, all it is... is a matter onto hitching onto the FDJ express chain<strikethur> I mean, train, all it is a matter of is hitching the ride to the FDJ slipstream, ofcourse, the FDJ domestiques will ride to Demare's orders, not to bling mathews, or matthews.

but, with respect to a slipstream, if Demare can plough a slipstream, hazardous metaphor, then Bling can easily jump in Demare's wind.

Also matters how much the crash took out of Bling, did he not say, 50kmph, thrown into the conrete ditch/aquaduct by the side of the road at this speed. So this would have shaken his corporeal intensity, surely, devil's advocate is the trade off if he gets an adrenaline boon.
First bolded :D
Second bolded After the race there were pictures of Matthews bike with marks all over the bars and at first it just looked like marks from the crash but hearing and interview afterwards it turns out all the marks were blood from all the cuts and grazers so it's no surprise he didn't contest the finish.
 

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