Random Rider/Team Thread

[The Hitch]

For now he's also one of the only Spaniards who's expressed his disapproval of Lance.

You mean active Spanish cycling starts of course, not Spaniards.

But that is merely a very basic iq test. It means nothing when it comes to doping.

Especially from someone who rides with team Katusha, and all the teams Murito always rode with.

What I'd like to know is whether he was on the same program as his leaders at the time, 'cause his GT pedigree wasn't great until the blood passport was introduced. Perhaps he wasn't a good enough 'responder' to compete in GT's?

His Gt pedigree wasnt all that for another 3 years after the blood passport came in.

 

[Pentacycle]

You mean active Spanish cycling starts of course, not Spaniards.

But that is merely a very basic iq test. It means nothing when it comes to doping.

Especially from someone who rides with team Katusha, and all the teams Murito always rode with.

Current Spanish riders, yes, forgot about that. Some of them are clearly not that sharp.

His team history leaves no doubt for most, but he wasn't the most prolific performer out there. Until he signed at Katusha, after a series of good performances at Caisse.

His Gt pedigree wasnt all that for another 3 years after the blood passport came in.

His first top 10 was in the '08 Vuelta, wasn't that only half a year after the introduction? Not as good good of a result as his current level, but it was his first time that he was consistently near the front in a GT.

 

[Benotti69]

I would love to know how the younger generation get a free pass on this doping!

Carmichael was doping Hincapie and Monkey Mouth on US team when they were what 18, 19 or 20.

When did the doping stop so the younger generation didn't get offered dope or told to dope or look for dope?

Some people believe when Armstrong left in 2005 he took the doping with him. Well Bruyneel didn't leave, Ferarri didn't leave, Fuentes didn't leave, Leinders didn't leave, so how come the younger generation are held up to be clean or cleanER what ever that means?

Then Monkey Mouth came back in 2010 so did the younger generation not get dropped into baths of blood then?

This sport is cleanER crap is so pathetic along with BS about younger generation, new cleanER generation etc

 

[The Hitch]

Are you serious?

.

Am I serious in my question asking you to expand on your original comment. Well, yes, i dont see how or why "could you expand on that position" is such a unbelievable position for someone to hold on an internet forum

I doubt everyone used five bags in the '07 Tour...

For someone who very often complains to posters with something along the lines of "you didn't answer my question", you aren't exactly performing much better when the shoe is on the other foot.

Your giving me very vague responses when i asked for you to be more specific.

I thought someone who is on the asking questions side of the discussion as often as you would realize that very often its purpose is to make the other poster clarify the position because you have a response ready. It does not mean that they hold the opposite position.

There are some very obvious observations implicit in my question, which is why i asked you to clarify. . Most notably the differences between 2007 and today. The alleged cleanliness, the blood passport, the greater scrutiny, the advances in doping and anti doping.

Explicit meanwhile, in my post, was the point that you have failed to explain how one could possible work out which riders are doping in more than others. How one could possibly justify such assumptions.

Its hard enough to make coherent arguments for a riders position on a binary scale where the options are "doping" and "not doping".

To try to work out the quantities, stikes me as a stretch, hence my original question.

 

[taiwan]

Purito - really nice rider.

ONCE --> Saunier Duval --> Caisse d'Epargne --> Katusha

Wins things like the WT and CQ.

Top Ardennes rider

GT contender

Duck

 

[Netserk]

It's ofc limited how much we actually know, but according to Chicken Rabo only used one BB during the '06 Tour, whereas Floyd used three IIRC.

Atm I doubt Cunego dopes as much as Froome, although I think both of them dopes.

And the reason I asked if you were serious, was because it's quite obvious that it's impossible for every doper to dope exactly the same.

 

[The Hitch]

Current Spanish riders, yes, forgot about that. Some of them are clearly not that sharp.

His team history leaves no doubt for most, but he wasn't the most prolific performer out there. Until he signed at Katusha, after a series of good performances at Caisse.

His team history was not a comment on his doping, but a rebuttal to the point that one can read anything into his dismissal of Armstrong (unless this dismissal was made before August 2012)

BTW Contador, like Wiggins has also conveniently now changed his opinion and decided that Lance was a doper, so in theory, Rodriguez stands with Contador on this

His first top 10 was in the '08 Vuelta, wasn't that only half a year after the introduction? Not as good good of a result as his current level, but it was his first time that he was consistently near the front in a GC

mmmm, well, 08 and 09 were still what those who claim cycling is clean now would call the dark era.

But these arguments have been visited in other threads with other riders and they have no real success rate. See Kimmage Kohl.

 

[The Hitch]

It's ofc limited how much we actually know, but according to Chicken Rabo only used one BB during the '06 Tour, whereas Floyd used three IIRC.

Atm I doubt Cunego dopes as much as Froome, although I think both of them dopes.

And the reason I asked if you were serious, was because it's quite obvious that it's impossible for every doper to dope exactly the same.

Its impossible for every doper to dope exactly the same if you are talking about exact numbers but depending on the effectiveness of anti doping and the drugs in vogue its possible that the difference in quantity between the high end dopers is rather small and may even vary from year to year.

 

[Pentacycle]

His team history was not a comment on his doping, but a rebuttal to the point that one can read anything into his dismissal of Armstrong (unless this dismissal was made before August 2012)

BTW Contador, like Wiggins has also conveniently now changed his opinion and decided that Lance was a doper, so in theory, Rodriguez stands with Contador on this

Ok, I agree the LA appreciation/disapproval argument isn't very valuable in tis discussion. Not many riders doubted Lance openly before Aug '12, and not many were asked to give their opinion, but afterwards every top rider had to do an interview about the case.

Didn't know Contador had wisely changed his mind over time though, good for him.

mmmm, well, 08 and 09 were still what those who claim cycling is clean now would call the dark era.

But these arguments have been visited in other threads with other riders and they have no real success rate.

It definitely wasn't clean around that time, far from that, it's a very hard to judge the degree in which the performances changed. While some went faster than ever, others were slowing down. Shady times indeed, in terms of doping.

 

[Ripper]

I think you are going to have to expand on this.

And in particular address my question of how you can know which riders dope more and less.

I think the overall answer to this tends to be cognitive dissonance.

 

[Big Doopie]

Another Ferrari patient wins at the giro. The 2013 giro is turning out a windfall for the hematologist.

 

[the sceptic]

Another Ferrari patient wins at the giro. The 2013 giro is turning out a windfall for the hematologist.

Great isnt it? Much better than the boring 2012 giro.

 

[Trudgin]

meh, J-Rod stepped up big time in '12. Much better at TT'ing, recovery in GT's became very good. Started to outclimb other dopers from longer distance.

J-Rod is s doper. Hardcore.

Ok laugh if you will.... but

Perhaps Purito has improved, and is now challenging people you are all so sure were doped to the gunnels.. because now they are all trying to clean themselves up and therefore slowing down..

someone said Puritos numbers have not really fluctuated in the way that our friends from the Death Star have.

But then I don’t understand the numbers soooo..

 

[Cycle Chic]

Betancur - next big doper

Betancur - on yesterdays stage was riding like he was on the track - in the final few kms of the GALIBIER !! coming to a stand still then coming around the riders - next big Doper !

 

[Ferminal]

Bartoli would never introduce a rider to the world of doping.

Not that ASA had a great record anyway.

 

[taiwan]

I don't think stalling while climbing is an indicator of likely juicing. I would have raised more eyebrow if he'd stayed away.

 

[Von Mises]

Lemond was meassured at 5.9 W/KG at a Tour climb( I think). Being the last known mostly accepted clean guy, they are basing it onn his performance, even though we don't know the numbers of the Colombians like Herrara.
They may have had even better numbers/

iZnoGouD is right. 6.0 is just nice round number, nothing more. And we do not know Lemond numbers, lack of data from 80s makes it problematic to use them as yardsticks.

 

[Von Mises]

How can he be any less suspicious than Valverde?

And his improvement since he joined Katusha in his 30's....

Yes, but question is why now? Why in his 30s? Why not earlier: his previous teams were at least equally dirty, overall environment for dopers was more favorable, less controls, no biopassport etc. For me it is hard to understand his logic and motivation.

 

[hrotha]

Yes, but question is why now? Why in his 30s? Why not earlier: his previous teams were at least equally dirty, overall environment for dopers was more favorable, less controls, no biopassport etc. For me it is hard to understand his logic and motivation.

Some riders decide to step up at some point. Kohl started doping at 19, switched to a 5-star program at 26, in 2008. The results speak for themselves.

 

[Miburo]

Betancur - on yesterdays stage was riding like he was on the track - in the final few kms of the GALIBIER !! coming to a stand still then coming around the riders - next big Doper !

I'm not saying that he's not a doper but wasn't all that big yesterday at all...

Ever seen the tour '07 when they climbed the peyresourde?

 

[Miburo]

Yes, but question is why now? Why in his 30s? Why not earlier: his previous teams were at least equally dirty, overall environment for dopers was more favorable, less controls, no biopassport etc. For me it is hard to understand his logic and motivation.

Well yea that's a good question. But it's definitely fishy.

ITT (hugh) improvement and suddenly consistency/improvement in the mountains.

 

[GazelleFormula]

Santambrogio is really ridiculous this year. First he climbs with the best in TA, now in the Giro. This guy really found the right suppliers for his 'bread and water' in 2013.

 

[frenchfry]

Cyclingnews headline: "Scarponi stays in podium hunt at Giro d’Italia"

...Scarponi, who served a three-month suspension during the off-season after he confessed to being trained by Dr. Michele Ferrari.

Scarponi was previously banned in 2007 and 2008 for blood doping under the supervision of Dr. Eufemiano Fuentes.

He only has to overtake Santambrogio (who has his own followers on this thread) and Uran (see Sky thread). Then to get into top place he only has to beat out Evans and Nibali, who have their own links to Ferrari.

Pro cycling is in a wonderful place. Much cleaner, moving forward, leaving the bad past behind, and all that good stuff.

 

[Ferminal]

BMC, whose management oversaw four positive tests at the Phonak team.

 

[sublimit]

Great isnt it? Much better than the boring 2012 giro.

I gained a lot of pleasure watching the Liquigas mountain train self destruct last year.