Random Rider/Team Thread

[the sceptic]

I thought movistar learned how to win clean after Dowsett taught them about marginal gains.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

The Libertine: Finally, the Libertine HAS COME BACK to the Clinic. *cheer* And what better way for the Libertine to come back to the Clinic than with a Giovanni Visconti win? And the Libertine hears that some jabroni that doesn't know their role is stealing the Libertine's trademark Third Person posting style, and the Libertine ain't too happy 'bout that. But because the Libertine is fair, they can have a chance to explain themselves. So, Big Doopie, what do you think about the Giovanni Visconti win today?

Big Doopie: Well, I...

The Libertine (interrupting): IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT YOU THINK! *insert generic threats here* If you smelllllllllll what the Libertine is cooking!
*raise eyebrow*

 

[pmcg76]

How did Bernard Khol do it?

Was Bernard Kohl ever at Garmin or living in Girona? No, so what relevance does he have to this situation? None. Nice attempt at diversion though.

 

[pmcg76]

I remember that too, but if data does nit fit into FGL´s nice story, then better not to mention.

Of course that is the case, like when he compared two stages from different Tour's that were almost identical and then put forward some silly argument that doping was still prevalent based on the fact that the more recent edition was faster than 1998.

He chose not to mention the fact that weather conditions in 98 were horrible whilst the more recent running of the same route was dry and sunny and won by a break. Like most of the clinic 12, it's all about misdirection and distortion to push their agenda.

Of course they hate when they are called on it and will backtrack and squirm or just simply disappear from a thread.

 

[Netserk]

I'm quite sure Landis lived in Girona. He managed to blood dope (almost) entirely on his own.

 

[pmcg76]

I'm quite sure Landis lived in Girona. He managed to blood dope (almost) entirely on his own.

Was Landis riding during the BioPassport era and with a team who had an anti-doping ethos and how many of his Phonak team lived in Girona??

Perhaps you missed my post a few pages back listing the different possibilities of JV not knowing that Hesjedal was/is doping. If you think there are other possibilities then please feel free to add to the list.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

Of course that is the case, like when he compared two stages from different Tour's that were almost identical and then put forward some silly argument that doping was still prevalent based on the fact that the more recent edition was faster than 1998.

He chose not to mention the fact that weather conditions in 98 were horrible whilst the more recent running of the same route was dry and sunny and won by a break. Like most of the clinic 12, it's all about misdirection and distortion to push their agenda.

Of course they hate when they are called on it and will backtrack and squirm or just simply disappear from a thread.

And there's the Garmin Groupie.

Rewatch the video, what tailwind? At the finishline? Climbing as fast as Zulle in 1998. We all know what Alex was on in 1998.

Horrendous weather towards Luchon in 1998? Keep bending facts:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P76BLbKrGEI

Drizzle matey. The horror! Anyone ever ridden a bike loves those conditions, lot of oxygine in the air. And, both editions were won on the break, but, you should have watched the 1998 version to know the pharmacist of the peloton won that stage. Under the guidance of a team doc who works at Vini Fantini nowadays. What a nice little cesspool isnt it?

Visconti's win. Fill you with a warm glow FGL?

Didnt this guy win:

A Garmin rider competitive in the third week of a GT, wasnt that the sign of a clean peloton? Or does that require three riders?

But, to be nice, I will answer your question. No, not really. I dont get fuzzy fealings when I know pro - cycling is still ruled by the institute of Ferrara and other alchemists. When you take a good look to the medical staffs you will see very little has changed since the good old r_epo days. Including dottore Michele of course. Bandwith dopers.

 

[pmcg76]

And there's the Garmin Groupie.

Rewatch the video, what tailwind? At the finishline? Climbing as fast as Zulle in 1998. We all know what Alex was on in 1998.

Horrendous weather towards Luchon in 1998? Keep bending facts:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P76BLbKrGEI

Drizzle matey. The horror! Anyone ever ridden a bike loves those conditions, lot of oxygine in the air. And, both editions were won on the break, but, you should have watched the 1998 version to know the pharmacist of the peloton won that stage. Under the guidance of a team doc who works at Vini Fantini nowadays. What a nice little cesspool isnt it?


Didnt this guy win:

A Garmin rider competitive in the third week of a GT, wasnt that the sign of a clean peloton? Or does that require three riders?

But, to be nice, I will answer your question. No, not really. I dont get fuzzy fealings when I know pro - cycling is still ruled by the institute of Ferrara and other alchemists. When you take a good look to the medical staffs you will see very little has changed since the good old r_epo days. Including dottore Michele of course. Bandwith dopers.

I wasn't referring to your most recent comparison, rather a previous post from last week I think. Cannot remember what thread.

Taking different stages from different years and looking at what time they were completed in is silly without qualifiers. How was the stage run?, at what stage did they start cranking it up? what were the standings etc, etc, there are too many variable factors to use as an accurate guide and only someone with an agenda would put forward such arguments. At least looking at power or climbing times overall is more relevant but hardly an exact science either.

Ah yes, whenever anybody starts pointing out the BS of the clinic 12, it is the same old cry, the fanboy cry. I ain't no groupie of Garmin or anyone or any team for that matter, I just don't have time for all the lies and BS you guys invent to tarnish people. I don't really bother with the SKY threads as even I find what SKY have done with certain riders a bit hard to believe.

Why do I know so much about Garmin and JV?, simples really. GARMIN have had a lot of articles published about them in the English speaking magazines. Around 2008, ProCycling seemed to have an article on Garmin every month. I stopped reading cycling magazines around 2010 as they were becoming too repetitive and expensive for nothing really new. Then there is the time Paul Kimmage spent with Garmin, JV also had a column back in Cycle Sport 2002/04, then there is his postings here, all in all there is probably more information out there on JV and Garmin than any other team. Cross-reference it all and you get your answers. Oh yeah, I have also been to Girona so I know what kind of city it is and saw how easy it is just to randomly meet pro cyclists there.

You guys like to claim such and such a person is a liar but distorting facts to make a certain point is just as bad.

Also, you can keeping on saying that it's all the same people Managers, DS, doctor's involved in the sport so nothing will ever change. Well Marc Madiot was the DS/Manager at Lfdjeux before the Festina affair, he is still the DS/Manager at that team. Are fdjeux the same type of team they were pre Festina??? Rebellin, Gianetti, Berzin v Pinot, Casar, Demare. There is NO black or white situation's no matter how much you want it to be that way.

 

[Frosty]

Didnt this guy win:

First guy with no links to Ferrari?

 

[Big Doopie]

The Libertine: Finally, the Libertine HAS COME BACK to the Clinic. *cheer* And what better way for the Libertine to come back to the Clinic than with a Giovanni Visconti win? And the Libertine hears that some jabroni that doesn't know their role is stealing the Libertine's trademark Third Person posting style, and the Libertine ain't too happy 'bout that. But because the Libertine is fair, they can have a chance to explain themselves. So, Big Doopie, what do you think about the Giovanni Visconti win today?

Big Doopie: Well, I...

The Libertine (interrupting): IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT YOU THINK! *insert generic threats here* If you smelllllllllll what the Libertine is cooking!
*raise eyebrow*

Oh my oh my. The great libertine returns and chooses to address Big Doo...um...I mean - me. There's so much here that makes me smile. Thanks for cheering my day.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

I wasn't referring to your most recent comparison, rather a previous post from last week I think. Cannot remember what thread.

Taking different stages from different years and looking at what time they were completed in is silly without qualifiers. How was the stage run?, at what stage did they start cranking it up? what were the standings etc, etc, there are too many variable factors to use as an accurate guide and only someone with an agenda would put forward such arguments. At least looking at power or climbing times overall is more relevant but hardly an exact science either.

Ah yes, whenever anybody starts pointing out the BS of the clinic 12, it is the same old cry, the fanboy cry. I ain't no groupie of Garmin or anyone or any team for that matter, I just don't have time for all the lies and BS you guys invent to tarnish people. I don't really bother with the SKY threads as even I find what SKY have done with certain riders a bit hard to believe.

Why do I know so much about Garmin and JV?, simples really. GARMIN have had a lot of articles published about them in the English speaking magazines. Around 2008, ProCycling seemed to have an article on Garmin every month. I stopped reading cycling magazines around 2010 as they were becoming too repetitive and expensive for nothing really new. Then there is the time Paul Kimmage spent with Garmin, JV also had a column back in Cycle Sport 2002/04, then there is his postings here, all in all there is probably more information out there on JV and Garmin than any other team. Cross-reference it all and you get your answers. Oh yeah, I have also been to Girona so I know what kind of city it is and saw how easy it is just to randomly meet pro cyclists there.

You guys like to claim such and such a person is a liar but distorting facts to make a certain point is just as bad.

So, you accuse me of:

Of course they hate when they are called on it and will backtrack and squirm or just simply disappear from a thread.

and then you basicly do that yourself, how about that.

My previous comparison was the Pau-Luchon stage 1998 where Ullrich, we kinda know he was at least at 49,9999999 crit, went gungho on the Peyresourde, versus 2012.

Fact is, you cant just ignore such stages, not just from historical point of view, also out of statistical view. Yet u accuse me of things you do not even have knowledge over, it seems. There was no horrendous weather, that was on the Galibier/les Deux Alpes. Facts, have them ready.

Maybe the next one will be la Toussuire 2006 versus 2012. Who knows.

I do not care for your intrest/support on Garmin, hell, like them if you want, good on you, but dont come in here telling people basicly they are morons for not believing the clean cycling stuff. Do ask the clean cycling Jezus why he meets at MPCC meetings with known/highly suspicious doping doctors.

Hope we're still best friends

Also, you can keeping on saying that it's all the same people Managers, DS, doctor's involved in the sport so nothing will ever change. Well Marc Madiot was the DS/Manager at Lfdjeux before the Festina affair, he is still the DS/Manager at that team. Are fdjeux the same type of team they were pre Festina??? Rebellin, Gianetti, Berzin v Pinot, Casar, Demare. There is NO black or white situation's no matter how much you want it to be that way.

Good one, I will come back for that one.

 

[Big Doopie]

But, to be nice, I will answer your question. No, not really. I dont get fuzzy fealings when I know pro - cycling is still ruled by the institute of Ferrara and other alchemists. When you take a good look to the medical staffs you will see very little has changed since the good old r_epo days. Including dottore Michele of course. Bandwith dopers.

Ah. FGL, you have shown maturity beyond my abilities (clearly).

A tip of the hat to you, my friend.

 

[taiwan]

Hope ppl will concede that if there were no significant differences in weather on those ascents, the comparison is valid.

 

[pmcg76]

So, you accuse me of:

and then you basicly do that yourself, how about that.

My previous comparison was the Pau-Luchon stage 1998 where Ullrich, we kinda know he was at least at 49,9999999 crit, went gungho on the Peyresourde, versus 2012.

Fact is, you cant just ignore such stages, not just from historical point of view, also out of statistical view. Yet u accuse me of things you do not even have knowledge over, it seems. There was no horrendous weather, that was on the Galibier/les Deux Alpes. Facts, have them ready.

Maybe the next one will be la Toussuire 2006 versus 2012. Who knows.

I do not care for your intrest/support on Garmin, hell, like them if you want, good on you, but dont come in here telling people basicly they are morons for not believing the clean cycling stuff. Do ask the clean cycling Jezus why he meets at MPCC meetings with known/highly suspicious doping doctors.

Hope we're still best friends Good one, I will come back for that one.

I never ask anyone to believe in clean cycling, that's up for people themselves to decide. All I do is correct posters when they start distorting facts.

It was the stage over the Peyresoude that I was referring to, want to go back and check that I posted at that time it was a worthless comparison as weather conditions were different.

Facts

http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/results/1998/tour98/stage10.html

The stage was held in rain and increasing fog and even Ullrich said it "was a very hard day."

Rain and fog 1998.
Dry and sunny 2012

Simple question, were the weather conditions the same for both stages?

How about "The descent of the Aubisque was like a battlefield with Casagrande forced to abandon, Jalabert and Olano hitting the deck as did Telekom domestique Udo Bolts"

or

"this was Marco Pantani whose demon descending skills on rain-soaked roads put him 23 seconds ahead of Ullrich at the finish in Luchon"

or

Bobby Julich post stage quote "A lot of guys had problems today with crashes and the weather".

All courtesy of Cycling Weekly

Facts indeed.

So again, are you distorting facts??

 

[The Hitch]

The Libertine: Finally, the Libertine HAS COME BACK to the Clinic. *cheer* And what better way for the Libertine to come back to the Clinic than with a Giovanni Visconti win? And the Libertine hears that some jabroni that doesn't know their role is stealing the Libertine's trademark Third Person posting style, and the Libertine ain't too happy 'bout that. But because the Libertine is fair, they can have a chance to explain themselves. So, Big Doopie, what do you think about the Giovanni Visconti win today?

Big Doopie: Well, I...

The Libertine (interrupting): IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT YOU THINK! *insert generic threats here* If you smelllllllllll what the Libertine is cooking!
*raise eyebrow*

Exactly what i was thinking when I saw the poster constantly refer to himself in the 3rd person.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Was Bernard Kohl ever at Garmin or living in Girona? No, so what relevance does he have to this situation? None. Nice attempt at diversion though.

SO I need to point out a doper from Garmin? Good one.

If you had have answered the very simple, direct question I asked (something you complain I do not do), you might have got the point.

Here's a clue if you want a discussion: finding a rider as precedent for doping solo on a team that eschews doping scandal who lives in a popular cycling town is enough of a precedent.

Noone here has to find a rider on Garmin who lives and trains in Girona who has been caught doping whilst riding for Garmin to show that Ryder could be doping.

 

[Ferminal]

Leave poor Christian alone.

 

[42x16ss]

I never ask anyone to believe in clean cycling, that's up for people themselves to decide. All I do is correct posters when they start distorting facts.

It was the stage over the Peyresoude that I was referring to, want to go back and check that I posted at that time it was a worthless comparison as weather conditions were different.

Facts

http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/results/1998/tour98/stage10.html

The stage was held in rain and increasing fog and even Ullrich said it "was a very hard day."

Rain and fog 1998.
Dry and sunny 2012

Simple question, were the weather conditions the same for both stages?

How about "The descent of the Aubisque was like a battlefield with Casagrande forced to abandon, Jalabert and Olano hitting the deck as did Telekom domestique Udo Bolts"

or

"this was Marco Pantani whose demon descending skills on rain-soaked roads put him 23 seconds ahead of Ullrich at the finish in Luchon"

or

Bobby Julich post stage quote "A lot of guys had problems today with crashes and the weather".

All courtesy of Cycling Weekly

Facts indeed.

So again, are you distorting facts??

Shut up shut up shut up! You'll burst the bubble

Just to add - The '98 stage had attacks almost from the start as everyone wanted to regain time on Ullrich before the TT and Pantani didn't really start riding until the final climb. Compare this to last years stage where not much happened until about 2/3 of the way into the stage.

Not saying that the peleton is squeaky clean or anything - just compare like with like, including conditions and the race on the road.

 

[delbified]

i'm lovin' The Killer in every breakaway of the Giro so far..

 

[42x16ss]

i'm lovin' The Killer in every breakaway of the Giro so far..

Pretty cool huh! Reminds me of Schumacher back in the '08 TdF.

Can someone please remind me how Di Luca hasn't received a life ban?

 

[Ferminal]

Not enough evidence in OFD to get a doping sanction.

And let's not pretend he's looking great here. He's having a go that's about it. Yesterday he could hardly make it across to Rubiano who had been in the break all day and got smoked by Visconti 5 minutes later. Lost to Navardauskas the day he was in the long break.

Is that not acceptable for a GT/Monument/Classic winner? Or does it mean if Pirazzi started doping hardcore he'd be a top3 cyclist?

 

[42x16ss]

Not enough evidence in OFD to get a doping sanction.

And let's not pretend he's looking great here. He's having a go that's about it. Yesterday he could hardly make it across to Rubiano who had been in the break all day and got smoked by Visconti 5 minutes later. Lost to Navardauskas the day he was in the long break.

Is that not acceptable for a GT/Monument/Classic winner? Or does it mean if Pirazzi started doping hardcore he'd be a top3 cyclist?

Good point - it's just that with Killer's record, well, you make up your own mind

 

[Ferminal]

Well I doubt he's ever raced clean. But if you compared him "post-doping" to Basso/Contador/Scarponi/Valverde and so on, he looks ok.

 

[delbified]

Well I doubt he's ever raced clean. But if you compared him "post-doping" to Basso/Contador/Scarponi/Valverde and so on, he looks ok.

post doping with those guys just means going down a size or two in blood bags - sure they're slower and their blood parameters are slightly more believable, but they haven't changed.

 

[frenchfry]

i'm lovin' The Killer in every breakaway of the Giro so far..

He likely has an appointment with his family doctor that the doesn't want to miss, that's why he is in such a hurry.