Rate the 2016 Tour de France

[loge1884]

Re: Re:

What would you have preferred to see in place of back loaded climbing stages?

Pretty much like the Giro, but with more & flatter ITT kilometers and a better distribution of the mountains perhaps.

....

I do wonder whether ASO can do anything much to even out the strength differences between teams by tweaking the route. It seems to me that the absolutely enormous disparity between team budgets is the root of the problem. You can't blame Sky for doing it, or for nailing down the race.

By definition, an exciting race means a close race, and why would any team actually want that if they have the manpower to dominate.

is Sky's budget that much higher (or actually higher at all) than Astana, Movistar, Tinkoff, Etixx or BMC?
to me the difference was pure and simple the 100% commitment to GC-win - I haven't seen that from any other team to that extent ...

 

[phanatic]

It was like three weeks of Ardennes without the tension, and I feel bad for Froomey but it's a zero: ruined by crashes, ruined by weather, ruined by spectator interference, ruined by white lines, ruined by Rio's long shadow (Olympics >> TdF :surprised: ); this was like the 2012 cyclo-tour of Italy, only not in Italy.

Can we even say there was a strongest climber in this race? Bardet had the only mtf win among the gc contenders, but even that may be seen as somewhat iffy because of the crash. Was Froome clearly stronger than Poels? Was Aru stronger than Nibali, or Quintana stronger than Valverde? What did we watch? Was there even a race?

 

[Jagartrott]

Re: Re:

is Sky's budget that much higher (or actually higher at all) than Astana, Movistar, Tinkoff, Etixx or BMC?
to me the difference was pure and simple the 100% commitment to GC-win - I haven't seen that from any other team to that extent ...

Sky's budget =
75% higher than that of Astana
133% higher than that of Movistar
40% higher than that of Tinkoff
94% higher than that of Etixx
25% higher than that of BMC

So yes, I think it's a factor in building a team so dominant in one race.

 

[phanatic]

Re:

But that expectation/hope in a way is entertainment too, isn't it? Even if it's a bit masochistic.

If a restaurant is a 2 or 3 (let alone a 0) in my rating, I don't go back to eat there every day for three weeks.

a spectacle like the tour is more like a family reunion, only you want more drama and fewer injuries

 

[tukabel]

Vino option!

 

[Catwhoorg]

5/10

Yellow was never in doubt, but podium spots had great interest.
Rain ruined the last day for the GC fight.

Some entertaining attacks by Froome, but mostly fairly predictable once he had the advantage.
Sky lets the break build a big advantage and contest the stage. GC fights on the final climb usually.

 

[Fernandez]

The fight for the stages was very good, except for the sprints; sorry, I hate sprints and I dont like sprinters, and Cavendish more than anyone. But the fight for the GC/podium? It was shamefull. The race doesnt deserve more than a 2.

 

[carton]

I'd have gone with the A/B/C/D/F/Vino options. Or 0-4, Vino with hash-marks.

I gave it an 8 out of 10. I think people were too caught up in the Maillot Jaune race or lack thereof. As I said in another thread:

So we saw a bit of an anticlimactic GC battle in this year's Tour. The only real challenger was off and everyone's favorite Spanish dancer crashed out again. But we saw an all-time exhibition from Sagan, who instead of resting up for the last stage like every single Champs Elysees contender in history before him went out as a domestique to help his team bag the polka dots and a top-10 in the two stages before Paris, and then almost got his fourth stage anyway. We saw thrilling ends to breakaways, with Pantano catching Majka over and over on the descent while Zakarin got dropped and caught back on through pure grinta. Bardet attacking downhill for a last gasp French victory and a surprise podium. We saw the yellow jersey crash twice, once involving a desperate jog up Ventoux; an inflatable almost take out an indefatigable Adam Yates; and plenty of other unforgettable moments.

Plus we saw we saw legit current GT podium contenders going for the polka dots, the world's best sprinters going after the line and not knowing who won on several occasions, and the green and yellow sprint out for the win for the first time since 1974 (IIRC).

 

[barmaher]

Average rating of 3.6 so far. The lowest I can remember (I wasn't on the fourm in 2012, but I will search for it).

 

[Red Rick]

Not sure that Tour had a rating thread.

 

[barmaher]

Yeah, I can't find it.

 

[loge1884]

Re: Re:

is Sky's budget that much higher (or actually higher at all) than Astana, Movistar, Tinkoff, Etixx or BMC?
to me the difference was pure and simple the 100% commitment to GC-win - I haven't seen that from any other team to that extent ...

Sky's budget =
75% higher than that of Astana
133% higher than that of Movistar
40% higher than that of Tinkoff
94% higher than that of Etixx
25% higher than that of BMC

So yes, I think it's a factor in building a team so dominant in one race.

thanks, where do you get those numbers?

well that explains a lot ... plus the fact that Sky seem to put a felt 90% of their efforts into Le Tour (Dauphiné, Romandie and other being just a preparation turf), whereas all the other teams seem to have various targets during the season ... ok Poels won in LBL, but if I'm not mistaken it was the first ever Monument Sky won ...

a cap on budgets would be a solution then, but who is going to control teams from say Bahrain or Kazakhstan?

 

[carton]

Re: Re:

a cap on budgets would be a solution then, but who is going to control teams from say Bahrain or Kazakhstan?

Again, no need to go that far. (Though it would be easy enough to stuff a wet-bag full of cash. Or a bike bag. Or a wheel bag. Or just any freaking bag.) I'm sure that someone in London or Zurich can find a way around a financial straight-jacket. It would be incredibly complex to implement and even then it would wind up being completely unenforceable. Even JV seems to be wising up to that, slowly.

https://twitter.com/Vaughters/status/757131339078316032

 

[Jagartrott]

Re: Re:

thanks, where do you get those numbers?

http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/racing/tour-de-france/tour-de-france-team-largest-budget-262275

When does cycling get exciting:
1. contender attitude (difficult to change - no Nibali, no Contador, no Pinot = a lot less action)
2. main contender with poor team (cf. Kruijswijk/Chavez Giro 2016; Dumoulin Vuelta 2015; etc.)
3. teams of main contenders comparable
4. route designed for attacking (but depends on 1, 2 and 3)
5. chance (weather, bad luck,...)

You can affect some of that by rules (e.g. less riders per team and more teams, draft system for top riders) and by stage design, but I don't know how likely all of that is.

 

[yaco]

Strangest thing is there was less than 8 minutes from first to tenth which suggests the riders were evenly matched. Often a rider 8 minutes down is in 4th or 5th place.

 

[Jagartrott]

Re:

Strangest thing is there was less than 8 minutes from first to tenth which suggests the riders were evenly matched.

Or it suggests that people mainly followed wheels, that the best team neutralised any attack, and that Froome did not need to do any real pro-active racing in the mountains.

 

[Gigs_98]

Re:

Yeah, I can't find it.

It had one but the name was a bit different. I also searched for it when the poll here started and it was very similar.

Here it is: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=17962&hilit=Tour+de+france+2012&view=viewpoll

 

[Brullnux]

Watched 2 stages of this whole Tour (The ITT and the last 5km on Stage 21) through one reason or another but apparently I missed nothing I couldn't read in La Gazzetta. Pretty glad I didn't watch it actually. Sounded awful.

Well done to Froome though.

 

[Escarabajo]

Re: Re:

is Sky's budget that much higher (or actually higher at all) than Astana, Movistar, Tinkoff, Etixx or BMC?
to me the difference was pure and simple the 100% commitment to GC-win - I haven't seen that from any other team to that extent ...

Sky's budget =
75% higher than that of Astana
133% higher than that of Movistar
40% higher than that of Tinkoff
94% higher than that of Etixx
25% higher than that of BMC

So yes, I think it's a factor in building a team so dominant in one race.

Wow, BMC is a failure!

 

[cnfdugo]

I have this romantic idea that the reign of Jean-François Pescheux is over and Thierry Gouvenou is the current race designer. Feel free to burst my bubble, I'll just blow it up again.

The winner / his team had to be able to:

- finish uphill, check
- finish downhill, check
- TT for about an hour, check
- TT in the mountains, check
- control the GC against baroudeurs in a hilly stage, check
- survive crosswinds, check

The sprinters had to win:
- being brought to the line and take it from there (last minute corners)
- being launched (straight final km's)

Sorely missed:
- WC/Milan-san Remo length stage
- inner city prologue/TT
- cobbles or other poor road (Champs-Élysées does _not_ count)
- team TT

 

[Billie]

not sure what thread to put this in but this one made most sense

Large drop in TV ratings #TDF2016 : -32% Holland -25% Spain -16% Flanders -12% France -10% UK -10% Germany -5% USA

bad numbers for TV.

ASO will surely make changes to liven up the spectacle

 

[SeriousSam]

Would be interesting to know ratings for other races for context. Could be cycling being in terminal decline as some with world class business acumen such as Oleg have been hinting at.

 

[kwikki]

Re:

not sure what thread to put this in but this one made most sense

Large drop in TV ratings #TDF2016 : -32% Holland -25% Spain -16% Flanders -12% France -10% UK -10% Germany -5% USA

bad numbers for TV.

ASO will surely make changes to liven up the spectacle

Just out of interest, what is your source for the viewing figures?

 

[MatParker117]

Re: Re:

not sure what thread to put this in but this one made most sense

Large drop in TV ratings #TDF2016 : -32% Holland -25% Spain -16% Flanders -12% France -10% UK -10% Germany -5% USA

bad numbers for TV.

ASO will surely make changes to liven up the spectacle

Just out of interest, what is your source for the viewing figures?

In the UK it looks to be due to Cav's bad couple of years, ratings increase as the race goes on. The tour still topped ITV 4s viewing figures.

 

[Billie]

Re: Re:

not sure what thread to put this in but this one made most sense

Large drop in TV ratings #TDF2016 : -32% Holland -25% Spain -16% Flanders -12% France -10% UK -10% Germany -5% USA

bad numbers for TV.

ASO will surely make changes to liven up the spectacle

Just out of interest, what is your source for the viewing figures?

https://twitter.com/vrdaam