I rated it 4 because of Primoz's victory in dramatic circumstances. Other than that, too many disappointing stages and too many withdrawals.
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I didn't really watch it so I'm not going to vote, but what I read while almost kinda half following it sounded pretty dire. And maybe it's just that all the haters got their votes in early, but I'd never seen even the most godawful GTs scoring this badly in this here forum
Elos Anjos
BANNED
Wheresmy1stgrademathshandbook
Bonimenier
BANNED
Even though it's the worst GT I've seen so far I didn't give it 1, but 2. I save my 1 for the first GT that gets cancelled halfway through.
After 40 votes:
Mean - 3.55
10% trimmed mean - 3.125
Median - 3
So far, comfortably the lowest this forum has rated a GT.
Mean - 3.55
10% trimmed mean - 3.125
Median - 3
So far, comfortably the lowest this forum has rated a GT.
I voted 2 without thinking too much. I love the sport and would certainly find plenty of things I enjoyed during the race which could make my vote creep up, which I didn't want to happen given this was such a dud.
When Hesjedal stood there, holding up the Senza Fine I thought I had seen it all. Things can never get worse than this, surely? Boy, how wrong was I. The worst of the worst. No excitement, no heroics. 2022 was bad, but I didn't expect better. 2002 was a mess, but Hamilton did the most crazy thing I had ever seen. 2012 was godawful, but it gave a nice meme. 2023, surely it'll never get worse than this?
When the route of this Giro was published I was really hyped. even ore so when it was announced that Roglic will compete because the risk of having a Remco end-to-end victory was somewhat diminshed.
What made this Giro worse then other GTs: clearly the weather, crashes, covids - so many abandons. But also the deal around the crans-montana stage was a joke. I also lost trust in the riders union there as they made a deal that wasn't changing anything about there concerns. So the Giro had very little GC action and also no one that tried anything. The 2021 und 2022 Giro are not 8s,9s or 10s but there was some entertainement and people trying (Torino stage, Caruso downhill attack stage 20, Montalcino stage). In one way this Giro was won like the last two: the clever rider/team used there biggest advantage (Bernal: Altitude, Hindley: w/kg-test, Roglic: steep stuff) to get a decisive enough gap. This year Ineos did nothing that would have given them a chance to get a better advantage or use Roglic not great form. Both top contenders were very passive throughout the whole race nothing compared to the Pogacar/Vingegaard battle, Remco in the Vuelta or Roglic 2021s Vuelta.
The highlights that made it at least a bit worthwile: Great Brekaway riders (Denz, Gee, Zana) and Pinot + Cav getting a great goodbye. The rest pretty much sucked.
What made this Giro worse then other GTs: clearly the weather, crashes, covids - so many abandons. But also the deal around the crans-montana stage was a joke. I also lost trust in the riders union there as they made a deal that wasn't changing anything about there concerns. So the Giro had very little GC action and also no one that tried anything. The 2021 und 2022 Giro are not 8s,9s or 10s but there was some entertainement and people trying (Torino stage, Caruso downhill attack stage 20, Montalcino stage). In one way this Giro was won like the last two: the clever rider/team used there biggest advantage (Bernal: Altitude, Hindley: w/kg-test, Roglic: steep stuff) to get a decisive enough gap. This year Ineos did nothing that would have given them a chance to get a better advantage or use Roglic not great form. Both top contenders were very passive throughout the whole race nothing compared to the Pogacar/Vingegaard battle, Remco in the Vuelta or Roglic 2021s Vuelta.
The highlights that made it at least a bit worthwile: Great Brekaway riders (Denz, Gee, Zana) and Pinot + Cav getting a great goodbye. The rest pretty much sucked.
Gave it a 2. The breakaways and final time trial were good, but the lack of GC fight made the breakaway battles less enjoyable because you would always only have the breakaway. It wasn‘t just no attacks but the sheer amount of Puccio or Swift or Michael Matthews on the front on tough climbs that hurt the race.
I don‘t even think the route had too much to do with it. I know the Week 1 MTFs were weak but having zero attacks combined is insane. Gran Sasso is like 6.5 k at 7% at altitude at the end and Evenepoel was possibly impeded by his crash and we still ended up with about 30 riders finishing same time like we finished in Quimper or something. I would rather watch the first six kilometers of a Super Planche ascent because they‘re twice as selective.
Then we get one hill where Roglič attacks to get the hype going before coming to the Stage 9 ITT which is another insane outlier in terms of time gaps which is cool for that stage but horrible for the race. Then Remco and TGH abandon and we‘re set up for disaster.
After another lull we get to a potential queen stage which is shortened because of a weird bargain between riders and organisers. Apparently there‘s a headwind on the final climb which leads to another horrible ascent where none of the top contenders test a reportedly ailing Roglič because they‘re afraid of the Stomp. After roadblocking and not trying to even ride Tempo before the final hill on a stage before a rest day the GC awakens on Bondone (as early as stage 16) and we think the race might be saved because no one can feel secure before the final TT.
Now I must remind you of the final week of the 2011 Tour which was:
- Gap stage to annoy Andy Schleck
- Pinerolo stage to annoy Andy Schleck even more
- Agnel- Izoard- Galibier MTF(horrible for a long-range attack with the long valley before the finish)
- Galibier from the hard side -> Alpe d‘Huez
- long TT
- Cav cobbled boulevard sprint
The stage order here is awful. The finishes get progressively harder and there has been a lack of action the first two weeks so no big time gaps. I‘ll concede that a flat TT is a much clearer incentive for climbers to attack than an MTT but it‘s still horrible. That final week has an amazing reputation.
Meanwhile in the 2023 Giro the Zoldo Alto stage actually delivers somewhat despite most of Cibiana being ridden at a snail’s pace. Coming up next is the big Dolomites showdown with a variety of climbs for a last decisive attack… oh, wait, Ben Swift is pacing the Giau. The contenders wait for the last two kilometers and the time differences are negligible. Then, finally, the gimmick MTT this Giro has decided to hoist upon itself arrives and it delivers, Primoz Roglic wins in dramatic fashion and some of his supporters are brought into the ICU with a permanent erection.
In the 2011 Tour, Contador and Samu Sanchez attack a bunch of times and Andy Schleck wins the Galibier stage by over two minutes after a long-range move, only to be controlled by Evans on an Alpe d‘Huez stage where Cadel has to chase for a long, long time after suffering a mechanical on the Télégraphe. Tommy Voeckler cracks on the final mountains while his teammate Pierre Rolland bests the aggressive Sanchez and Contador for the stage win and Evans secures the title in a somewhat less dramatic final TT.
Could this year’s riders have delivered similarly in this race? Probably not.
Did they even try? Congrats on winning the Zubeldia award, everyone from 3 to 9 on GC except Pinot.
We’re the breakaways good? Yes
Was it still a waste of time to watch this race most of the time? Yes
Was the 2012 Giro bad? I‘m told it was.
Was this worse? Rhetorical question
Good riddance.
I don‘t even think the route had too much to do with it. I know the Week 1 MTFs were weak but having zero attacks combined is insane. Gran Sasso is like 6.5 k at 7% at altitude at the end and Evenepoel was possibly impeded by his crash and we still ended up with about 30 riders finishing same time like we finished in Quimper or something. I would rather watch the first six kilometers of a Super Planche ascent because they‘re twice as selective.
Then we get one hill where Roglič attacks to get the hype going before coming to the Stage 9 ITT which is another insane outlier in terms of time gaps which is cool for that stage but horrible for the race. Then Remco and TGH abandon and we‘re set up for disaster.
After another lull we get to a potential queen stage which is shortened because of a weird bargain between riders and organisers. Apparently there‘s a headwind on the final climb which leads to another horrible ascent where none of the top contenders test a reportedly ailing Roglič because they‘re afraid of the Stomp. After roadblocking and not trying to even ride Tempo before the final hill on a stage before a rest day the GC awakens on Bondone (as early as stage 16) and we think the race might be saved because no one can feel secure before the final TT.
Now I must remind you of the final week of the 2011 Tour which was:
- Gap stage to annoy Andy Schleck
- Pinerolo stage to annoy Andy Schleck even more
- Agnel- Izoard- Galibier MTF(horrible for a long-range attack with the long valley before the finish)
- Galibier from the hard side -> Alpe d‘Huez
- long TT
- Cav cobbled boulevard sprint
The stage order here is awful. The finishes get progressively harder and there has been a lack of action the first two weeks so no big time gaps. I‘ll concede that a flat TT is a much clearer incentive for climbers to attack than an MTT but it‘s still horrible. That final week has an amazing reputation.
Meanwhile in the 2023 Giro the Zoldo Alto stage actually delivers somewhat despite most of Cibiana being ridden at a snail’s pace. Coming up next is the big Dolomites showdown with a variety of climbs for a last decisive attack… oh, wait, Ben Swift is pacing the Giau. The contenders wait for the last two kilometers and the time differences are negligible. Then, finally, the gimmick MTT this Giro has decided to hoist upon itself arrives and it delivers, Primoz Roglic wins in dramatic fashion and some of his supporters are brought into the ICU with a permanent erection.
In the 2011 Tour, Contador and Samu Sanchez attack a bunch of times and Andy Schleck wins the Galibier stage by over two minutes after a long-range move, only to be controlled by Evans on an Alpe d‘Huez stage where Cadel has to chase for a long, long time after suffering a mechanical on the Télégraphe. Tommy Voeckler cracks on the final mountains while his teammate Pierre Rolland bests the aggressive Sanchez and Contador for the stage win and Evans secures the title in a somewhat less dramatic final TT.
Could this year’s riders have delivered similarly in this race? Probably not.
Did they even try? Congrats on winning the Zubeldia award, everyone from 3 to 9 on GC except Pinot.
We’re the breakaways good? Yes
Was it still a waste of time to watch this race most of the time? Yes
Was the 2012 Giro bad? I‘m told it was.
Was this worse? Rhetorical question
Good riddance.
Conclusion: It is all the riders fault. Lol.
Route average rating: 8
Giro average rating: 2
Route average rating: 8
Giro average rating: 2
I gave it a 5.
Things I liked:
Things I didn’t like:
Things I liked:
- The drama and storylines in the final two stages.
- The anticipation of Remco‘s TT splits in stage 1
- The incredibly scenic parcours
- TBoPNo
Things I didn’t like:
- Too backloaded
- Shitty weather
- Awful coverage of the end of the MTT. They we’re covering the last three riders like they were in the middle of the 2nd wave
- Uninspiring parcours
I rated it a 3. And that is being nice. The breakway stages were quite good, while the GC battle was awful. And although weather, sickness and other aspects is a big reason for the lack of action, the route design made it even worse. A really good route could have resulted in a perhaps 6/10 race despite the other factors mentioned here.
Apparently Ben Stiller is also a cycling fan
View: https://twitter.com/BenStiller/status/1662978429417840640
View: https://twitter.com/BenStiller/status/1662978429417840640
It became a Twitter thing during the race, probably because the race itself wasn't too exciting.
It could be a sign of things to come in the Giro and Vuelta.
The riders are more powerful than ever before compared to the race directors.
It wont' surprise me that the way they behave regarding crazy long stages (including transfer logistics) begins to have an impact on the stage designs of these races.
The tour is probably still above that. But the Giro's calling card is truly epic stages that dwarf anything the tour or vuelta can come up with.
But if the riders show they are not going to race the monster stages, the race directors are going to wise up and begin to modify the race design to attract the best
riders and make for exciting racing.
If you are the giro director, what is more important? Attracting the biggest riders and exciting racing or being the hipster 'epic' grand tour loved by all the cycling forum members?
I won't be surprised if over the coming years we see a change in the character of the Giro.
The riders are more powerful than ever before compared to the race directors.
It wont' surprise me that the way they behave regarding crazy long stages (including transfer logistics) begins to have an impact on the stage designs of these races.
The tour is probably still above that. But the Giro's calling card is truly epic stages that dwarf anything the tour or vuelta can come up with.
But if the riders show they are not going to race the monster stages, the race directors are going to wise up and begin to modify the race design to attract the best
riders and make for exciting racing.
If you are the giro director, what is more important? Attracting the biggest riders and exciting racing or being the hipster 'epic' grand tour loved by all the cycling forum members?
I won't be surprised if over the coming years we see a change in the character of the Giro.
Armchair Cyclist
Moderator
Before announcing your rating, you may wish to bear this in mind:
In stating your opinion of the race, you take on great responsibility.
I have it the other way around. I think the riders raced the course the way it was set up, an elimination race all the way down to the last time trial. Why expend energy trying to ride the competition off your wheel in a bunch of mountain top finishes when you have a final climbing race where everyone is on their own? If they have a stage like that it should come at the end of the first week. Desperate attacks to regain time > trying to not lose time before the final decisive day. The GC battle (?) may have been gridlocked for most of the race but looked at as a series of one day races it had a lot of entertainment value. I give the daily racing an 8, the GC race a 3, and the course a 1. For a 4 average.
Anyway I gave it a 4; 1 for each stage I didn't watch.
That‘s a cryptic rating system. What if the race was an unwatchable chain of sprint stages? 11, 12, 13? I want reasonable scoring, like @Tonton does.
I gave it a 5. My dude won in the end (Roglic), though I didn't dare believe it could happen. I didn't pick him in any of the polls so as not to jinx him. Poor Remco. I picked him in the first poll. Poor Tao. I picked him in the second poll. Okay, so my final poll pick wasn't terrible (Almeida). Glad he survived! The negatives for this Giro: crashes for the big contenders (some bad injuries, too), monsoon conditions, Roglic's dog off the leash, abandons by top contenders, sickness through the peloton, absent GC action for most of the race, the truncation of one of the stages that might have provided some excitement if left alone. The positives: 2nd time trial was actually pretty exciting, emergence of Almeida as a GC contender, some redemption of the race in week 3. Stage 16 was a thriller, with Almeida's biggest win so far and Roglic having to fight back behind Kuss to save his Giro. Stages 18 and 19 might not have been as great as hoped, but with the top 3 GC contenders very close on time, there was a bit of suspense. ... A little bit. Then came stage 20, which was an incredible stage packed with drama and a winning performance for the ages. Then came stage 21, with the resurrection of Cavendish at the beautiful backdrop of Rome, with an assist from Thomas, who is hard not to like (whatever one thinks of Sky/Ineos). The scenery was spectacular for several of the stages, really beautiful. And there you have it. My Rog bias probably upped the rating by a couple points. ... Oh, and some of the breakaways did provide solid entertainment--the Pinot/Cepeda feud, the emergence of Healy, Derrick Gee's giving it a go, etc.
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If I had missed five stages, I would have given it 0.8 for of each of those stages. I just like the number 4 ok. That said, I try to never expect a whole lot from a race, because you can easily get disappointed otherwise.
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