Rate the "epic success" of the 2011 Giro d italia.

[Skip Madness]

There are bits I love, but as a route it's defective.

The things I like are:

+ Stage five for the good climbs and sterrato.
+ Stage seven. The perfect aperitif for later mountain stages, 100km in length should mean crazy escapes, and the finishing climb isn't especially hard but combined with the early ascent of the Taburno and the short stage length it could be quite fiery.
+ The Etna stage is glorious.
+ Stage eleven to Castelfidardo is near-perfection, barely a flat metre in there.
+ Crostis and Zoncolan combined, despite being only two climbs, make for one of the all-time great mountain stages. The medium mountains in the first half of the stage are the cherry on the cake.
+ The following stage has the awesome Giau-Fedaia combo and these two stages form a back-to-back combination of extraordinary difficulty.
+ The stage to Sondrio is very well-judged.
+ 242km ending in Finestre-Sestriere is pretty much the best penultimate stage conceivable.

Things I don't like:

+ 32.4km of flat ITT over the whole race is diabolical. Coming on the last day, it means we can expect a lot of conservative riding in many of the mountain stages because the better climbers will know that even leaving their attacks 'till late, there's no risk of rouleurs making up much time on them.
+ As such, the MTT to Nevegal is a waste. In a Giro of so many big climbs, it's gratuitous and won't add to the sporting spectacle.
+ Seven MTFs, plus a MTT, plus two medium mountain stages ending on uphills... the mountains need variety. The Cima Coppi stage should end after the descent of the Fedaia, the final climb will kill a lot of the contest. A sprinkling of other descent finishes would appeal more.
+ The Grossglockner stage will be all but uncontested owing to it's relative straightforwardness compared with the following two days.
+ The stage to Macugnaga doesn't really seem to have any sense of purpose and it's hard to envisage good racing there.
+ The last real flat stage is stage twelve... I know flat stages and bunch sprints annoy some, but they are essential to keeping the rhythm and balance of the race. The sprinters may as well clear off at half-way, and I don't think that's a good thing.

Overall, I give it a 5/10. I'd have given it less because the defects are severe, but the fact is that stages five, nine, eleven, fourteen and twenty are so good, that there is no doubt going to be some spectacular racing at points. But it's an appalingly proportioned race.

Zomegnan taking shots at the Tour of California, and having a good whinge about the Di Luca/Armstrong-style complaints of a couple of years ago is always welcome, however.

 

[Fowsto Cope-E]

The only thing I don't like about this course is the lack of TT kms. Personally, I don't like TTs, but they do force the pure climbers to be more aggressive making the 7 awesome MTFs even better.

 

[The Hitch]

The lack of tt kms however will possibly stop Nibali and Menchov from having a good chance which imo is a good thing.

 

[Skip Madness]

The lack of tt kms however will possibly stop Nibali and Menchov from having a good chance which imo is a good thing.

I don't see what's good about it. The possibility of Nibali and Menchov being in with a good chance is exactly what would make for more excitement when the mountain stages come - the need to drop those two and do it quick.

 

[nvpacchi]

8.5/10

Would have given it a 9 if Zoncolan was not used. Zoncolan is such an epic climb I feel that it should not be used every year. Having it in back to back years takes away some of the climb's mystique.

 

[Descender]

--

I don't see what's good about it. The possibility of Nibali and Menchov being in with a good chance is exactly what would make for more excitement when the mountain stages come - the need to drop those two and do it quick.

---

Ditto.

 

[The Hitch]

8.5/10

Would have given it a 9 if Zoncolan was not used. Zoncolan is such an epic climb I feel that it should not be used every year. Having it in back to back years takes away some of the climb's mystique.

They should act like the different sides are different climbs. Alpe is climbed from the same side every 2nd year or so. The Giro should call it Zonc A and ZOnc b, hence justifing holding the 2 different climbs. But yes, they shouldnt hold it in back to back years.

I do think however that, the climb is so much better than anything else in all gts, that they should use the Zoncolan once every 2 or 3 years. The crowds of last year, and the difficulty of the climb have no rival.

I don't see what's good about it. The possibility of Nibali and Menchov being in with a good chance is exactly what would make for more excitement when the mountain stages come - the need to drop those two and do it quick.

Good news for me. I just dont want them to win. I generaly route for guys who havent won a gt, and with Ricco, Scarponi, Sella, possibly Anton and Cuddles there, this looks like a possibility. As good a course as any to create a new champ.

 

[Descender]

There are bits I love, but as a route it's defective.

The things I like are:

+ Stage five for the good climbs and sterrato.
+ Stage seven. The perfect aperitif for later mountain stages, 100km in length should mean crazy escapes, and the finishing climb isn't especially hard but combined with the early ascent of the Taburno and the short stage length it could be quite fiery.
+ The Etna stage is glorious.
+ Stage eleven to Castelfidardo is near-perfection, barely a flat metre in there.
+ Crostis and Zoncolan combined, despite being only two climbs, make for one of the all-time great mountain stages. The medium mountains in the first half of the stage are the cherry on the cake.
+ The following stage has the awesome Giau-Fedaia combo and these two stages form a back-to-back combination of extraordinary difficulty.
+ The stage to Sondrio is very well-judged.
+ 242km ending in Finestre-Sestriere is pretty much the best penultimate stage conceivable.

Things I don't like:

+ 32.4km of flat ITT over the whole race is diabolical. Coming on the last day, it means we can expect a lot of conservative riding in many of the mountain stages because the better climbers will know that even leaving their attacks 'till late, there's no risk of rouleurs making up much time on them.
+ As such, the MTT to Nevegal is a waste. In a Giro of so many big climbs, it's gratuitous and won't add to the sporting spectacle.
+ Seven MTFs, plus a MTT, plus two medium mountain stages ending on uphills... the mountains need variety. The Cima Coppi stage should end after the descent of the Fedaia, the final climb will kill a lot of the contest. A sprinkling of other descent finishes would appeal more.
+ The Grossglockner stage will be all but uncontested owing to it's relative straightforwardness compared with the following two days.
+ The stage to Macugnaga doesn't really seem to have any sense of purpose and it's hard to envisage good racing there.
+ The last real flat stage is stage twelve... I know flat stages and bunch sprints annoy some, but they are essential to keeping the rhythm and balance of the race. The sprinters may as well clear off at half-way, and I don't think that's a good thing.

Overall, I give it a 5/10. I'd have given it less because the defects are severe, but the fact is that stages five, nine, eleven, fourteen and twenty are so good, that there is no doubt going to be some spectacular racing at points. But it's an appalingly proportioned race.

Zomegnan taking shots at the Tour of California, and having a good whinge about the Di Luca/Armstrong-style complaints of a couple of years ago is always welcome, however.

Couldn't have said it better myself. I'd be good and give it a 6.5 though.

 

[Descender]

They should act like the different sides are different climbs. Alpe is climbed from the same side every 2nd year or so. The Giro should call it Zonc A and ZOnc b, hence justifing holding the 2 different climbs. But yes, they shouldnt hold it in back to back years.

I do think however that, the climb is so much better than anything else in all gts, that they should use the Zoncolan once every 2 or 3 years. The crowds of last year, and the difficulty of the climb have no rival.

What different sides?

 

[hfer07]

Things I don't like:

+ 32.4km of flat ITT over the whole race is diabolical. Coming on the last day, it means we can expect a lot of conservative riding in many of the mountain stages because the better climbers will know that even leaving their attacks 'till late, there's no risk of rouleurs making up much time on them.

the riders with poor ITT skills will be motivated to make the most of the mountains to have a buffer

+ As such, the MTT to Nevegal is a waste. In a Giro of so many big climbs, it's gratuitous and won't add to the sporting spectacle.

Last year's MTT wasn't a waist considering the amount of climbing they did-what is good about it is the comfortable length (12 km) after a rest day. this is simply a great appetizer for what's ahead.

+ Seven MTFs, plus a MTT, plus two medium mountain stages ending on uphills... the mountains need variety. The Cima Coppi stage should end after the descent of the Fedaia, the final climb will kill a lot of the contest. A sprinkling of other descent finishes would appeal more.

I don't totally disagree with you-but I think Zomegnan wants to shape the Giro in that particular fashion-A tough race for all-rounder riders instead of a race "broken" in segments to "please" every type of riders-ala TDF

+ The Grossglockner stage will be all but uncontested owing to it's relative straightforwardness compared with the following two days.

Perhaps "uncontested" by the GT favorites, but battled by those wanting to climb in the GC-the Giro isn't nowadays a race where a GT rider with serious ambitions to win it, can simply take it easy because the next say is tougher--last year's Giro proved it and if someone falters one bit in a stage like the Glossglockner-believe me- is going to be even harder to make up the losses in the Zoncolan

+ The stage to Macugnaga doesn't really seem to have any sense of purpose and it's hard to envisage good racing there.

It does: to wear off the legs

+ The last real flat stage is stage twelve... I know flat stages and bunch sprints annoy some, but they are essential to keeping the rhythm and balance of the race. The sprinters may as well clear off at half-way, and I don't think that's a good thing.

then wait until July for the TDF

 

[Curls_21]

I'd give the route a 7, love the two climbs up Etna, however I just think that the 7MTF plus the MTT is too much overkill; compared to only 32km of ITT which basically limits the amount of people who could win drastically, not something I think is a good thing. Also I think stage 12 is too early for the inevitable sprinter excedos.

However there is no denying that this is a tough route full of potential which could be an amazing tour, however I just wonder whether it is too tough.

 

[Descender]

I don't totally disagree with you-but I think Zomegnan wants to shape the Giro in that particular fashion-A tough race for all-rounder riders instead of a race "broken" in segments to "please" every type of riders-ala TDF

Pardon me?

 

[The Hitch]

What different sides?

There are different sides from which the mountain can be ascended. In 2003 they used a different one to 2007 and 2010

Wikipedia

The mountain can be climbed on three roads: one from Ovaro, another from Sutrio, and a third from Priola.

* West from Ovaro: This is a very demanding climb, and one of the most difficult in Europe, usually compared to the Alto de El Angliru. It was featured for the first time in the 2007 Giro d'Italia. The climb starts in Ovaro in the Gorto valley, and is 10.1 kilometres (6.3 mi) long at an average of 11.9% with an elevation gain of 1,210 metres (3,970 ft) and a maximum gradient of 22%. The real climb however starts at Liariis, 8.5 kilometres (5.3 mi) from the summit. Shortly after the village, the road disappears into forest and gains 900 metres (3,000 ft) in the next 6 kilometres (3.7 mi). After this section, the road passes through three short tunnels, before a series of steep switchbacks immediately beneath the summit. The former rough asphalt between Liariis and the tunnels was replaced in 2007; that between the last tunnel and the summit had already been resurfaced by autumn 2005. The tunnels are now lit.

The Alps near the Zocolan

* East from Sutrio: This is less demanding than the road from Ovaro but it is also a very difficult climb. It was featured for the first time in the 1997 Giro Donne. The actual climb to the summit starts at Sutrio and is 13.5 kilometres (8.4 mi) long at an average of 9% with an elevation gain of 1,210 metres (3,970 ft) and a maximum gradient being 23%. The most demanding section is the final 3.5 kilometres (2.2 mi) with an average gradient of 13%.

* East from Priola: This is the original old road which was replaced by the newer road from Sutrio described above. The two roads combine around 4 kilometres (2.5 mi) below the summit. The road from Priola was first asphalted in autumn 2005. From bottom to top, the 8.9 kilometres (5.5 mi) long road gains an astonishing 1,140 metres (3,740 ft), meaning an average gradient of 12.8%. The lower part has sharp hairpin bends and is at times very steep. The climb is briefly flat after merging with the newer road, with the remaining 3.5 kilometres (2.2 mi) containing several ramps of up to 23% steepness.

 

[hfer07]

Pardon me?

"all-rounder" riders for the sprints- instead of Cavendish-like pure sprinters. Pardon me for not being that explicit

 

[Ferminal]

They are climbing from Ovaro again, which is a bit of a surprise seeing as everyone seemed convince they were going up the Eastern side.

 

[Descender]

There are different sides from which the mountain can be ascended. In 2003 they used a different one to 2007 and 2010

Wikipedia

Oh I thought you meant they climb it up a different side in 2011 as the one this year.



Gotcha hfer07.

 

[Ferminal]

This is ridiculous, I love this course, not because of the mountains, but just because most stages should provide something. Some stages this year were amazing, but that was from random crashes or the peloton misjudging a break.

Stage 3

Perfect day for a break, but if it comes back together then someone will try and ping off that bump for sure.

Stage 4

Should be a sprinters stage but a lump after 200km might be of interest to the brave men. But yeh, should be a bunch sprint.

Stage 5

This is a tough stage, no questions, just hope for rain.

Stage 6

Another nice undulating day, only a classics capable sprinter is a chance.

Stage 11

This is probably my favourite of the lot, looks like an Ardennes profile.

Stage 17

Tough 250km day in the saddle, 2011's "L'Aquila".

So that's six stages where anything could happen, one or two could go to strong sprinters, a couple to the break, and some might see the GC contenders going for small gaps/time bonuses/stage wins. There are four stages which are locked in for the sprinters is good. 4-6 sprint days is enough if you ask me. The Giro is always going to backended, so it's not a huge surprise that there are none after Stage 12... maybe one would have been good though!

As for the "real" stages:

Montevergine, the usual easy one, it's only 100km as well so if the break goes hard early they should make it home first.

Etna... fantastic.

Glossglockner, a tough 6km climb I think the field will spread out but the gaps should be small.

Crostis-Zoncolan - this is ridiculous, show me a more intesnse 50km of a GT stage. The GC contenders will be in pieces by the top of the Crostis, with redemption on offer on the descent, only for it all to get carved up again in the first 1km of Zoncolan. They better have a lot of moto-cameras.

Stage 15 - Tough finish after 5,000m of climbing. Not sure if anyone will have any legs whatsoever after the previous two days, teams will be shattered. I'd love to see a big break here with the KoM contenders.

The next three (four) days will be a huge rest period, with some "notso tough climbing".

Macugnaga is a just to warm the legs up for the spectacle.

I can see the risk is there that the race could be killed off with the triple header 13, 14 and 15, with no ITT for anyone to get back into it. I guess the jury is out on the mountain ITT, and it probably should have been a flat/undulating one.

But overall this is amazing, I reserve the right to be criticised if most stages are dull.

 

[Skip Madness]

the riders with poor ITT skills will be motivated to make the most of the mountains to have a buffer

But they don't need to - 32.4km, they're unlikely to lose even three minutes there. That can be covered with pretty late attacks in three mountain stages, or just in the natural whittling down on the Crostis and Zoncolan alone. No need to worry about long-range attacks.

Last year's MTT wasn't a waist considering the amount of climbing they did-what is good about it is the comfortable length (12 km) after a rest day. this is simply a great appetizer for what's ahead.

Coming off the back off the back of three mountain stages - intervening rest day or not - I'd waver on the side of anti-climax rather than appetiser. This year's one arrived in a better context, although still not perfect. I don't like seeing MTTs placed beyond the second stage of a block of mountain stages - in the first couple of stages they'd kick things up, but any later than that they're more anonymous and take the wind out of the sails of the race's rhythm (I'd make an exception for penultimate stage MTTs, where the race dynamic is different).

Perhaps "uncontested" by the GT favorites, but battled by those wanting to climb in the GC-the Giro isn't nowadays a race where a GT rider with serious ambitions to win it, can simply take it easy because the next say is tougher--last year's Giro proved it and if someone falters one bit in a stage like the Glossglockner-believe me- is going to be even harder to make up the losses in the Zoncolan

I don't see any major riders faltering much, though. The flat lead up to the climb will mean that a heavy pace from further out is unlikely, so most should get to the Grossglockner fresh. There will probably be some differences over the final six kilometres, but they'll only come there and I doubt they'll be large. And coming after Montevergine, and Etna, and before Zoncolan, it frankly looks repetitive and boring - it's probably the most dispensable MTF, even moreso than Gardeccia and Macugnaga. Get rid of those three MTFs and Nevegal and this Giro would look much healthier.

It does: to wear off the legs

It's not hard enough to do that. The climbs are far apart, and the final climb to Macugnaga being one long drag will reduce the racing to a kilometre or two compared to if it was a succession of shorter climbs. And again, with an eye on the Finestre, few will want to risk daft moves, so there won't be much if anything taken out of the legs.

 

[Skip Madness]

Also, I swear Paolo Savoldelli looked younger and more gorgeous today than ever before.

 

[Timmy-loves-Rabo]

Excellent profile.
Maybe better than this year,yet I doubt it will better this years edition. Almost every stage was exciting, the stars aligned.
That being said, the giro is usually ridden more aggressively then other gts.
Either way I have little doubt it won't be the best gt... Again.

I wish gesink ride this.

9/10 - gave a ten in the poll cause I accidentally gave the tour an extra point.

 

[auscyclefan94]

Excellent profile.
Maybe better than this year,yet I doubt it will better this years edition. Almost every stage was exciting, the stars aligned.
That being said, the giro is usually ridden more aggressively then other gts.
Either way I have little doubt it won't be the best gt... Again.

I wish gesink ride this.

9/10 - gave a ten in the poll cause I accidentally gave the tour an extra point.

Nah, too many mountains. The more I see it the less it appeals to me. 6 mtfs is more than enough. 8 is way too much. Though Gesink should ride this. There needs to a be a bit more than just sprint stages and epically hard mountain stages. 2010's route was better.
I guess there should be more variation.

There are bits I love, but as a route it's defective.

The things I like are:

+ Stage five for the good climbs and sterrato.
+ Stage seven. The perfect aperitif for later mountain stages, 100km in length should mean crazy escapes, and the finishing climb isn't especially hard but combined with the early ascent of the Taburno and the short stage length it could be quite fiery.
+ The Etna stage is glorious.
+ Stage eleven to Castelfidardo is near-perfection, barely a flat metre in there.
+ Crostis and Zoncolan combined, despite being only two climbs, make for one of the all-time great mountain stages. The medium mountains in the first half of the stage are the cherry on the cake.
+ The following stage has the awesome Giau-Fedaia combo and these two stages form a back-to-back combination of extraordinary difficulty.
+ The stage to Sondrio is very well-judged.
+ 242km ending in Finestre-Sestriere is pretty much the best penultimate stage conceivable.

Things I don't like:

+ 32.4km of flat ITT over the whole race is diabolical. Coming on the last day, it means we can expect a lot of conservative riding in many of the mountain stages because the better climbers will know that even leaving their attacks 'till late, there's no risk of rouleurs making up much time on them..

Overall, I give it a 5/10. I'd have given it less because the defects are severe, but the fact is that stages five, nine, eleven, fourteen and twenty are so good, that there is no doubt going to be some spectacular racing at points. But it's an appalingly proportioned race.

Zomegnan taking shots at the Tour of California, and having a good whinge about the Di Luca/Armstrong-style complaints of a couple of years ago is always welcome, however.

I totally agree. Part of this means there should be a reduction of Mountain stages. With the mountain stages and the medium mountain stages it is just all way too much. Overkill by Zomegnan. I wish I could change my vote because it is not a 7/10. 14 medium/mountain stages. Just stupid. People are going to hold back somewhat because they feel they might blow up with all the mountain stages. I would put my money on Sastre to win this.

Your summary of the route is quite good.

Voted 7/10 another good Giro route....But why are Grand Tours set up for Climbers only to win?

Agreed!

 

[Timmy-loves-Rabo]

I fear I'm of the impression that there is nothing such as too many mtf.

 

[auscyclefan94]

I fear I'm of the impression that there is nothing such as too many mtf.

We'll see how you like all those boring mountain stages.

 

[Ferminal]

The only real MTFs are Etna, Glossglockner, Zoncolan, Gardeccia and Sestriere.

The ITT will help the climbers out, but it's no Kronplatz, but the stage is redundant really as no one will make too much time one way or the other. Montevergine and Macugnaga should see the top15 together. If it was the Tour, the gaps on three of those would probably be under a minute (Etna, Glossglockner, Gardeccia). Gardeccia could be big gaps depending on how fatigued everyone is. Crostis-Zoncolan could easily have 10 minutes across the top10 and Finestre-Sestriere maybe 5minutes.

The worst stages of the whole race are 7 and 19, hopefully there are good breaks on those days.

Who would I like to see at the Giro?

Anton - He would look great on these climbs
Basso - Not that he excites me, but he's got to defend his overall and Zoncolan wins.
Cuddles - He's got to defend the points title! In all seriousness he would win the points classification easy on this course, and should be able to win a couple of stages.
Gesink - I'm not convinced he would win, but a real test of where he's at.
Gilbert - Could excite quite a few intermediate stages.
Ricco - Although he might make it boring... 4 stage wins and win the GC by 5 minutes.
Sagan - Has to make his GT debut sooner or later.
Sammy Sanchez - It would be nice, but there's no chance he will race it.
Soler - !
Tondo - Hopefully he can continue his improvement.

 

[For The World]

I voted 8. It looks like it could be far more interesting than the Tour, and I can only hope that we get to see some of it in Australia. Hell, I'd love to see ANY races other than the TDF on television.

I only wish that someone like Pantani were around for this race. That would make the race more animated than most.