Rate the TdF 2017 route

[Valv.Piti]

I definitely think the 2012 route was better than this. But is it 2009 levels bad?

 

[LaFlorecita]

Someone should email this thread to Prudhomme

 

[Gigs_98]

Re:

Someone should email this thread to Prudhomme

He'd probably be happy to see that there are discussions about his route which serves as an advertisement for the tour

 

[Red Rick]

Re:

Someone should email this thread to Prudhomme

Nah, we should print it out and burn it while Nibali shouts voodoo enchantments at a burning picture of Prudhomme

 

[SafeBet]

I'm trying hard to find a reason why I gave it a 6 when the route was first released. Can't find it.
I'm calling my pusher, maybe he recalls what I was on back in october 2016. Terrible route.

 

[Rollthedice]

Re:

Only explanation I can think of for this route is that they wanted to avoid a Sagan and Froome dominance.

After the first TT Froome will take a nap in his 400w/kg luxury train and wake up for the second TT and suddenly he's in Paris.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re: Re:

Only explanation I can think of for this route is that they wanted to avoid a Sagan and Froome dominance.

After the first TT Froome will take a nap in his 400w/kg luxury train and wake up for the second TT and suddenly he's in Paris.

And Sagan will have no problems what so ever winning the green jersey comfortably despite Prudhomme's hardest efforts.
By the way, if its a 400w/kg train he should be in Paris after a couple hours napping in the backseats.

 

[Forever The Best]

I gave the route 2 when it was published, with the only positives being Mont du Chat and the Galibier stages.

 

[Gigs_98]

Re:

I'm trying hard to find a reason why I gave it a 6 when the route was first released. Can't find it.
I'm calling my pusher, maybe he recalls what I was on back in october 2016. Terrible route.

I quite liked the route as well when I first saw it and I still think that made sense. First thing I noticed was that there are already 3 more or less mountain stages in the first week; Biche, Grand Colombiere finally from its hardest side and Mont du Chat in one single stage; another interesting new 1st category climb in the massif central, return of Telegraphe-Galibier even at a crucial point of the stage; two ITT's; and stages to cities like Liege, Nuits Saint Georges, Pau, Rodez, Romans sur Isere and Salon de Provence, which I all expected to be hilly.
Sounds like a pretty decent GT route, doesn't it? Climbs which fans have wanted to see for years, between 50 and 60 TT kilometers, lots of hilly stages? I'd take that tdf route any minute. But nope, the 2nd TT is ridiculously short and instead of a bunch of hilly stages half of the stages of this tdf are flat and suddenly you are looking at a gt with hardly any difficult mountain stages and two extremely short TT's.

 

[MikeTichondrius]

Heh, I was looking at the Dauphine profiles and thinkiing that I would easily trade the Izoard stage in the Tour for that stage to Plateau de Solaison with the Saisies, Aravis and Colombiére before it, even with the short distance.

This does seem like a bad route. I'm hoping the Chat stage is uncontrollable due to the gradients, but given what I saw Sky do last year on the Colombier I'm not so sure. Basically, I'm expecting some sort of fun action on the stages to Station des Rousses, Chambery, Foix (fingers crossed), Peyragudes, Rodez, Le Puy en Velay and Serre Chevalier. Yes, I'm leaving out Izoard and PDBF (maybe a tad pessimistic re. Izoard but I just doesn't strike me as hard enough). Most of these are hopes more than beliefs really, as I can easily see Le Puy, Rodez and Foix being absolute duds. But those are the "hilly" stages we have.

And what is up with the climb cats.? Those two climbs at the beginning of the Chambery stage look ridiculous. Why not a single Cat 2 if you're gonna keep climbing? Peyragudes finish is a Cat 2 after the main Cat 1 climb - what is that for? Altitude? Latrape gets the same cat. as Agnes? Why so random?

Bah, I liked last year's route. Only thing thing that gives me hope here is the Mont du Chat and the Col de la Biche. May open ASO's eyes to new stuff they can use.

 

[spiritualride]

If action is going to happen anywhere it would be izoard. The last 7km are around 8-10%
http://cdn.cyclingstage.com/images/mountains/col-d-izoard-south.jpg
Though then again, Froome will probably crush the field on the first two MTFs , and he and everyone else will be in defense for Izoard. 9th on GC can't be taking risks attacking at that stage!

 

[gregrowlerson]

Re:

I count 10 sprint stages. TEN. Including to places like Liège and Pau. Pathetic.

A flat stage to Pau could only really be justified if they used a lap of the Circuit de Pau-Ville motor racing urban circuit, which would give a little uncategorized or cat.4 côte and then a quick descent that finishes before a nice finishing straight, to give a chance for a few frenetic late moves and a sprint that favours different riders, like the Toledo or Soria repechos in the Vuelta.

The overall summary:
1 - good. I like this. Opening ITTs (not TTTs) have been seemingly out of vogue in recent years, this is long enough to create some decent gaps but not so long it is absurd for an opener (I know some people like the idea of a 40km ITT on stage 1, personally I prefer to keep the riders close at this stage)
2 - it's Liège. You might have heard of a race called Liège-Bastogne-Liège. It isn't flat. There are dozens of climbs in that area that Liège-Bastogne-Liège doesn't use. The Tour uses none of them. I can only imagine that they're hoping it takes Sagan until stage 3 to pick up the maillot vert this year so they can say that competition for it is improving.
3 - Returning to France, we get a small finishing climb which ought to be decent for the puncheurs but time gaps are likely to be limited with the average gradient just 5,8%. The flat loop around Luxembourg is again disappointing, as is not using the Col de l'Europe and the Côte de Saint-Charles in the run-in.
4 - generic flat stage, could have been a bit more rolling but otherwise not too problematic
5 - good to have something to break up the field this early on, which is a plus point, and PDBF is certainly steep enough to manufacture some time gaps, but would have liked Ballon or Chevrères to make it less of a war of placement before the climb. I expect to see at least one crash in the 10km leading up to the base of the climb.
6 - 4/6 stages are sprints. Have you ever seen a Paris-Troyes profile? What would have been wrong with that? With the pro péloton still likely to be a sprint, but with a bit of tension as to who of the main sprinters wins it.
7 - 5/7 stages are sprints. Again, looks like they've actively sought out a boring option, though in fairness in my world if they'd had a proper hilly stage to Liège and cloned the Paris-Troyes run-in they might be due one.
8 - this is OK as a stand-alone stage for sure, but with stage 9 following it is surely unlikely to provoke any meaningful action.
9 - this is going to be all about Mont du Chat, which we know, but hopefully the steepness of the other climbs does mean there's something of effect. I actually prefer the other side of Mont du Chat, but the fact it's even being used at all is a borderline miracle. Probably the best stage of the race.
10 - A rest day after a rest day.
11 - A second rest day after a second rest day. 7th flat stage out of 11. I know the Tour has been about shortening its stages recently, but surely the riders are capable of some level of endurance?
12 - A reasonable stage in a vacuum, but rather uninspiring. Would have liked to see Peyragudes from the other side just to add something we haven't already seen twice recently, but hey, that would probably come at the price of including the dreaded Tourmalet. At least the stage is a decent length.
13 - 100km stage. In a way I hope I'm wrong, but in a way I'm hope I'm right about this: should be dull really. I hope I'm wrong because then I might get some entertaining races, but if I'm right it becomes a possibility that this trend for assuming shorter = better will end.
14 - At least it's a bit more interesting than the traditional ASO penultimate weekend flat stage and even includes an uncategorized ramp or two. But still, all the mountains on weekdays and this at a weekend.
15 - Tailor-made for a breakaway, just about the only stage that is.
16 - At least the sprinters have to rumble over some less flat stuff before they get their umpteenth chance to compete.
17 - Can't really complain about this in a vacuum, other than that I really would like a bit more innovation in the choice of climbs, rather than just the same climbs everybody knows like the back of their hand. And the pacing, because...
18 - An anæmic mountain stage that ends with a mythical pass being used as an MTF for no apparent reason, but also because it's a HC MTF it might tame the racing in the far superior stage before it. And don't get me started on the 66km Unipuerto version of La Course, although I'd rather watch that than this anyway.
19 - Having done an almighty, unprecedented TWO stages where they need to be attentive in a row, the GC men need a rest, so let's have another sprint!
20 - Should be at least double the length.
21 - I'll give them a pass on this one.

It might justify a 2 because of stage 1, stage 5 being the all-important stage to eliminate a few outsiders early on and stop there being so many teams trying to protect their GC until halfway through, and stage 9 including some climbs that we either haven't seen before or haven't seen in years, but those are the only plus points.

Solid analysis as always.

Just on the stage 17 and 18 being in the wrong order. I think that the scenario would be worse if you had the standard tough route through the Alps, with three or four stages. However the two days before the Alps are an easy stage and a rest day, and I believe that this could work in the races favour, with it being less of a war of attrition (I think that most people will agree with this in regards to the route as a whole!). Let's say that Contador is a minute behind Froome, I don't think that he'll sit back on the Galibier and save his legs for Izoard, if he has the legs. The Izoard stage is not all that difficult, as a whole.

So having less stages in the Alps, perhaps due to the fact that we have Chat and PDB, could work out reasonable well. PDB in itself is an excellent climb, always producing significant time gaps. In 2012 it was only four guys coming in together, whilst many other riders who were considered podium fancies lost many seconds, even minutes. That's what you want on an early stage. I don't think we will see a repeat of Etna.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Fear not, the 2019 Tour will also be starting with a TTT in the first days :lol: Kill those babies, LS

 

[fauniera]

I gave 2 points. One because the route is crap plus one for the Chambery stage. The amount of flat, boring stages is insane even for ASO standards.

 

[yaco]

Re: Re:

It will be hard to create time gaps with the less than challenging parcours - Teams/riders will need to be inventive which may lead to aggressive racing.

I think you posted the same thing 1 or 2 days ago

Think I did - Still trying to find out significant stages where time gaps could be created - Outside of TT's there should be at least 5 or 6 stages which meet this criteria - I can only find 3 stages.

 

[Valv.Piti]

I tweeted a bit with Dennis Ritter (danish commentator who I respect very much) who definitely didn't think it was an easy route, he is climbing most climbs with Rolf Sorensen before each Tour. I guess commentators never can say its a bad route etc. as they need to hype the event as much as possible, but still. If they race a couple of these stages very hard (stage 9, 12 and 17) it should create plenty of time gaps, but its always a risk. Last times up Peyragudes have been super disappointing, Chat is relatively early and ends downhill and Galibier is also downhill with Izoard the next time.

No guaranties, but if raced, it might not turn out so badly. I have no doubts its still better than 2009 but thats probably also that.

 

[spiritualride]

Sky is too strong for an attack on Froome to stick on the Galibier stage. I doubt anything significant on GC will happen that day as Sky will bring it all together on the long descent.

 

[Red Rick]

Stage 12 takes about 3 domestiques to control for Sky. That leaves 2 stages to do much. 2. in 21 stages.

 

[lenric]

Would have liked to see Col de Madeleine and Col de la Bonette ridden this year. Maybe not both, but at least one of them.

 

[Bolder]

I think (hope) the combination of 17 and 18 could break things wide open. I keep looking at stage 19 to see if it's really a "rest" day -- I'm not convinced, having ridden some of those roads, that the GC contenders can take it easy. Of course, this is a lot of magical thinking!

One thing I don't get is why go all the way to Chambery, then transfer across to the Dordogne? Why not continue the pain in the Alps?

On paper the Vosges stage could be exciting. I've spent time on those roads and if it's hot it won't be easy, plus with one big steep short finishing climb someone might find themselves down a minute early on.

I like the race from an aesthetic, cyclotourist standpoint, (Nantua-Chambery especially) but I don't think you can say on paper that it's a classic legbreaker. As noted above, however, that might lead to creative tactics.

 

[movingtarget]

Re:

May be, it is a trick against Sky since Sky is invicible in mountains so may be the author of the route assumes, that someone may destroy Sky on flats .

Froome and Sagan to go on the attack again ?

 

[movingtarget]

Re:

Let's hope the race is boring as **** and the organizers never design such a joke of a route again.

I doubt the racing will be boring. It's sometimes the hardest courses that have the most boring racing simply because many riders are thinking of the stage win and recovery. I think this is an open invitation for teams to be aggressive and this is not the course Sky would want. This might turn out to be an interesting race and a close one.

 

[gregrowlerson]

Fear not, the 2019 Tour will also be starting with a TTT in the first days :lol: Kill those babies, LS

I want to see a TTT up the Tourmalet!

There won't be a kitten or koran on the planet after that

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

Let's hope the race is boring as **** and the organizers never design such a joke of a route again.

I doubt the racing will be boring. It's sometimes the hardest courses that have the most boring racing simply because many riders are thinking of the stage win and recovery. I think this is an open invitation for teams to be aggressive and this is not the course Sky would want. This might turn out to be an interesting race and a close one.

That is why I wrote "hope"

FWIW, I think this race can be easily controlled by MoviSky.

 

[rghysens]

Re:

...On paper the Vosges stage could be exciting. I've spent time on those roads and if it's hot it won't be easy, plus with one big steep short finishing climb someone might find themselves down a minute early on. ...

There are no Vosges, there's a Vosge.

But I agree with the rest of your point. We've seen a couple of times the past years how __________________/ stages tend to end.