Reactions from the peloton

[pastronef]

http://mobile.twitter.com/gerardvroomen/status/257277248384675841

Gerard Vroomen never ceases to amaze.

and looking back to past years I think he decided to leave Cervelo after the test team folded, and also because he was tired of seeing some riders racing on his bikes

 

[Andy99]

Brian Smith: 'I told Lance I'd never take drugs... two weeks later I was sacked..'

'...But there are positives to come from all of this and we have a much cleaner sport today. I have no doubt that, in Bradley Wiggins, we have a clean Tour de France champion.'

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/ot...rian-Smith-told-cyclist-hed-drugs-sacked.html

Apologies if posted before.

 

[The Hitch]

Interesting comments from David Millar.

Has a go at Sky, saying they can do more

http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/other-sports/cycling-lancing-the-boil.19142378

Not really. He excuses them as naive.goof guys

 

[afpm90]

Don't know if this was posted before, reaction from Jens Voigt:

Asked to respond to Levi Leipheimer’s confession in Wednesday’s Wall Street Journal, in which he described cycling as “a sport where the athletes at the highest level — perhaps without exception— used banned substances,” Voigt took clear exception.

“If that’s what (he said), then it would be not correct,” Voigt said. “Or maybe I was not a top-level athlete then? Because, you know, I didn’t. So he probably shouldn’t say it that way. You’d say ‘Okay, most of the people” or “everybody I know did this’ but you can’t just say ‘everybody’ like that, you know?

http://velonews.competitor.com/2012...bruyneels-departure-was-the-right-move_261295

 

[Maxiton]

Interesting comments from David Millar.

Has a go at Sky, saying they can do more and says he was'nt happy at the answers McQuaid gave him when he questioned him at the Worlds.

http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/other-sports/cycling-lancing-the-boil.19142378

Not bad but he just can't mention Floyd can he?

His last paragraph is good. Which is true.

"The sport has got better since McQuaid came in, but he has to break free of Verbruggen," he said. "I don't think the UCI are doing a bad job now, they're at the forefront of anti-doping but they're self-sabotaging by not dealing with the past. This is Pat's moment. Now it's up to him."

I'm positively surprised by Millar's attacks on Verbruggen, but he's too soft on Pat, who is 100% part of the problem. Millar talks about acknowledging the past, but apparently that only applies to the distant past which is comfortably easy to acknowledge when you're already tainted yourself, not to the recent past (UCI covering up Contador? Testers giving Armstrong 20 minutes to take a shower before a test? Armstrong not having to comply with the 6 months of controls in advance of the Tour Down Under? Armtrongs' passport probably not being flagged for examination by the panel?).

Yes, this is why I have a problem with Millar. Nothing got better with McQuaid.
We saw the debacle of Contador, how he was going to get away with it until a German journo got wind of the positive for Clen.

McQuaid is cut from the same cloth as Verbruggen. For Millar to say different is bullsh!t and makes him an idiot.

How does Millar defend McQuaid's legal action against Landis, Kimmage and prior to that LeMond?

Millar still playing both sides of the fence in the mould of JV. When someone does that, I have no faith in their motives!

This avalanche of evidence is not only an indictment of Armstrong, but also of the whole system of professional cycling, including especially the UCI. For the sport, this is truly a seminal event. It makes for a lovely mirror of truth, revealing for all to see the true face of those who gaze upon it.

You can call it seminal in part because it makes demands of leading figures in the sport. They must look at it, and they must comment. Knowing what we now know, these comments immediately reveal the veracity and integrity of their speaker.

Miller's comments reveal his own complicity. For we know that McQuaid is not part of the solution, just imperfect, but rather part of the problem. And we know the UCI is not "at the forefront of anti-doping", but is in fact the source of the problem - not just doping and its tacit encouragement, but also favoritism, race fixing, and general corruption. UCI has corruption at its heart, and McQuaid is, as someone said, Verbrueggen's handpicked puppet.

We know all this and we know Miller knows it. Miller's comments are yet another plea to maintain the status quo, a pack of lies to support the corrupt and maintain the corruption. Which means that Miller himself is corrupt - this we knew, of course - and thus himself part of the problem. This seems an inevitable conclusion, from Miller's statement. And what else is Miller a part of?

 

[veganrob]

Jens' comments are lame. He continues to hang with the king doper Lance. Why didn't someone ask about that?

 

[Benotti69]

This avalanche of evidence is not only an indictment of Armstrong, but also of the whole system of professional cycling, including especially the UCI. For the sport, this is truly a seminal event. It makes for a lovely mirror of truth, revealing for all to see the true face of those who gaze upon it.

You can call it seminal in part because it makes demands of leading figures in the sport. They must look at it, and they must comment. Knowing what we now know, these comments immediately reveal the veracity and integrity of their speaker.

Miller's comments reveal his own complicity. For we know that McQuaid is not part of the solution, just imperfect, but rather part of the problem. And we know the UCI is not "at the forefront of anti-doping", but is in fact the source of the problem - not just doping and its tacit encouragement, but also favoritism, race fixing, and general corruption. UCI has corruption at its heart, and McQuaid is, as someone said, Verbrueggen's handpicked puppet.

We know all this and we know Miller knows it. Miller's comments are yet another plea to maintain the status quo, a pack of lies to support the corrupt and maintain the corruption. Which means that Miller himself is corrupt - this we knew, of course - and thus himself part of the problem. This seems an inevitable conclusion, from Miller's statement. And what else is Miller a part of?

Millar and his cohorts definitely like the situation of 2012 and dont want that to change. The passport is easy to beat if you have good lab techs moitoring everything. They want justice to be seen to be done, but nothing to change. Replica of Festina. The difference is the police are not invloved and I sure as heck dont know why. Because these guys were using prescription only medicine and transporting it around the world, and doping France is a criminal offence so where are the police?

When are heading for a big fat whitewash again. Till the next time.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

Don't know if this was posted before, reaction from Jens Voigt:



http://velonews.competitor.com/2012...bruyneels-departure-was-the-right-move_261295

to me voigt was always doped in his 2004-2006 csc years. I'll never forget those ridiculous tour of germany's with him outclimbing leipheimer, ullrich and such

 

[neineinei]

Glenn Magnusson, Swedish national team coach (USPS 1999), doesn't think it was a witch hunt against Armstrong after all, but now says Armstrong beat almost 1000 tests.

http://www.aftonbladet.se/sportbladet/cykel/article15591459.ab (Swedish)

 

[Walkman]

Glenn Magnusson, Swedish national team coach (USPS 1999), doesn't think it was a witch hunt against Armstrong after all, but now says Armstrong beat almost 1000 tests.

http://www.aftonbladet.se/sportbladet/cykel/article15591459.ab (Swedish)

He is an utter idiot. He says there were no organised doping at Postal. He THEN goes on insinuateing Lance has passed 1000 (!) tests, which is completely ridiculous since even Lance lies and says it's 500-600 whereas it was shown here eralier, it's more like 300 tests. AND, he has failed al least one of them!

Douchbag, idiot doper that still keeps the omerta live and kicking.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Miller's comments reveal his own complicity. For we know that McQuaid is not part of the solution, just imperfect, but rather part of the problem. And we know the UCI is not "at the forefront of anti-doping" but is in fact the source of the problem - not just doping and its tacit encouragement, but also favoritism, race fixing, and general corruption. UCI has corruption at its heart, and McQuaid is, as someone said, Verbrueggen's handpicked puppet.

We know all this and we know Miller knows it. Miller's comments are yet another plea to maintain the status quo, a pack of lies to support the corrupt and maintain the corruption. Which means that Miller himself is corrupt - this we knew, of course - and thus himself part of the problem. This seems an inevitable conclusion, from Miller's statement. And what else is Miller a part of?

I agree. As no doubt do quite a few others.

I note David is still doing PR for Sky. His sister must be pleased.

In this thread, a lot of people were trumpeting Millar as the white knight come to save cycling.

At the time, I called shenanigans, as did a number of others.

Allegedly, Millar grilled McQuaid and it was good for the sport.

My main concern was his entire speech looked like a press release, and included Sky and Garmin as clean teams winning GTs. And his sister Fran is a PR officer for Sky. And David owns part of Garmin. And David raced with Matt White, went on training camps with Matt White and got caught doping when they were on the same team together, then hired him as the best damn DS ever.

David's words now change:

"The sport has got better since McQuaid came in, but he has to break free of Verbruggen," he said. "I don't think the UCI are doing a bad job now, they're at the forefront of anti-doping but they're self-sabotaging by not dealing with the past. This is Pat's moment. Now it's up to him."

I put it to you that David's words may have changed, but his internal dialog / value system / belief system / motivations / modus operandi have not.

David Millar is at the Wolrd to cover the races for the BBC. He showed up at McQuaid's Press conference today to ask Fat Pat some questions

Thank you David

I am loving it.

David has a future as a journo. Not many are asking the right questions nowadays.

Kudos to David. Although I've found him quite hypocritical prior to this, he is deserving of respect. Hilariously ironic that being a convicted doper is what gives him credibility at this point.

Millar was the only outspoken tweeting rider against the kimmage-affair. That incident may have been the spark, while the off-season-guest journalist combo may have been the fuel for millar to vent his criticisms

Well, relationship between JV and UCI / McQuaid is, for whatever reason, not very good. If he would've done this, UCI would've been able to spin it as a general anti-UCI person asking some more questions.

A guy still riding asking this questions will (hopefully) make much more impact. Only thing JV now has to do is back his rider in the press.

Seriously though, major props to Millar, didn't expect this of him. At the same time it's pathetic that it's a guest journalist on probably his first press conference that asks the sensible questions. Sports and cycling journalists should be very, very ashamed of themselves.

I was never a David Millar fan up to now, but the attitude he is displaying here is a breath of fresh air in the cycling world of double talk and omerta.

Kudos to Mr. Millar.
Bravo!

The most impressive thing I've ever seen in (what passes for) cycling journalism. And it comes from a rider/owner! Respect.

I have never been a particularly big fan of Millar, but I will give him this: He asked questions many journalists in the room failed to ask, so he gets some respect for that as far as I'm concerned.

"A man who chases a hundred rabbits at once catches none, that being said although I agree on the mentioning of Wiggings and Ryder as the example of clean cycle is a bit much, is start; I much prefer a David Millar starting to say something than a silent peloton while the avalanche of physical evidence not just by the Armstrong affair but the overall doping cases over these past years. I'll take comments like these any day than the crickets chirping we've been hearing from the rest of riders.

Homer Simpson was right: you're damned if you do and you're damned if you don't, so why bother trying. Millar takes a stand, breaks omerta and the clinic starts making innuendos about his sister.

I've said it before but I think there are posters here that don't want the sport to be clean, you enjoy the conspiracies and sneering at the riders far too much

The audio is garbled, but you should be able to pick up on the contextual clues that show Pat was ANSWERING QUESTIONS. There are many contextual clues to that fact, and then, if you are super duper smart, you can discern the topic of the questions asked by the content of Pat's ANSWERS. If Millar was just making a statement, as you suggest, then Pat would have not ANSWERED anything. He would have said something to the effect of "I disagree with your statement..." or something of the like.

But you keep up your little narrative and pretend Millar just made a PR statement and asked no questions. Anyone with a modicum of intelligence can see that Pat was answering QUESTIONS, but I guess you don't want to be in that club.

Lots of *****ing and moaning in this forum about Omerta, and when someone breaks it it's called a PR move. Why? Because of who he is, and who he rides for. Garmin and Sky are two teams with a stated anti-doping regime, yet they are the Clinics no.1 enemy.

And don't get me wrong, I am not jumping on the "David Millar is the greatest doping crusader since nobody" bandwagon...in fact, I don't see that bandwagon, but hey, somebody probably wants to start a blog or something about it..

What I object to is this massive conspiracy being banded about here involving motives of people in a position to actually do something about a cleaner sport.

Are they doing it the way I would? Certainly not. There aren't nearly enough expletives for my satisfaction. I mean, Millar didn't call Pat a "fat f**king f**kweasel taintstain of a human." In my book, that makes Millar a f**king p***y...but I digress

Moving the needle (pun intended) in the right direction is a good thing. There are millions of dollars at stake here. If you guys haven't figured out the big boy world yet, let me hip you to something: When that is the case, people are much more measured in their actions and responses. Shocker!!!! I would love to have had all of this happen a decade and a half ago, but it didn't. But I see no reason to give Millar a golden shower in the face because he spoke provocatively to Pat. None.

He said he believes they are clean. He is allowed that belief, and it is also quite possible that he is being diplomatic considering that he likely does not have proof they dope. JV defended Wigans this summer in his statement about bone-idle ****s like me. I flamed the s**t out of him for it. I still think he was stupid to support a statement like that because the reason people are suspicious of doping is because HIS GENERATION doped like a bunch of junkies. He is as responsible for that suspicion as anyone. So, do I see JV as the poster child for anti-doping? No. Do I believe he has a nefarious purpose for his statements recently about his doping past, and the past of his riders? No, I don't. I don't think JV and Millar see the issue in the same way I do. I don't think they are NEARLY vitriolic and aggressive enough when it comes to people like Pat. I don't think they are nearly as supportive of fans who are skeptical as they should be. I don't think they came forward soon enough by 10-15 years. I think they have a big financial stake in being the "clean team."

All that aside, I don't see a lot more people saying ANYTHING. Nada. Nunca. Nadie. I also believe they both have a sincere desire to see a cleaner sport. Call me crazy...

 

[Maxiton]

A lot of us have had to walk back from our initial burst of enthusiasm, some in that same thread. In any event it's clear that Miller's apparent grilling of Mcquaid was, as some said at the time, a publicity stunt. Miller himself makes that clear with his current statement.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

A lot of us have had to walk back from our initial burst of enthusiasm, some in that same thread. In any event it's clear that Miller's apparent grilling of Mcquaid was, as some said at the time, a publicity stunt. Miller himself makes that clear with his current statement.

I apologise for the tone of some of my posts.

I don't actually like it, but MJM's signature "I told you so = best 4 words in the English language" were kinda ringing. (My personal favourite are 3 words: "I forgive you", but I digress).

I guess my frustration in that thread, after reading what to me seemed so transparently false and self-serving of David Millar, was to have some people swearing at you for pointing out his motivation (PR). It really kinda sucked, you know? People insinuating you have no intelligence. Or being negative Nancies. etc.

People went into instant fan mode. Like they do when JV posts something.

I stopped quoting responses from that thread at 3 pages in, but you yourself did back off a bit later. I did not include that and could / should have.

I felt vindicated, and honestly felt like slapping a bunch of people with a "how ya like them apples".

Hey. I never said I was perfect.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Another example (possibly posted elsewhere already): http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/jonker-says-he-never-doped

We can say that cycling at the Tour de France level is now clean," Jonker stated. "Cadel Evans is a great example of how it is possible to win a Tour de France on bread and water, and also Bradley Wiggins. Why we can say that is because what they do today [anti-doping practices] is totally different to what they did during that period of time."

Anti-doping practices have changed (yes) which proves cycling is clean (no).

Ashenden has already proven the ABP does not trigger bad blood profile warnings if you microdose epo.

etc.

This is basically repeating the, "ABP proves clean cycling". I asked JV if that was true on more than one occassion and he did not answer the question. I say ABP proves nothing.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

https://twitter.com/rhyslyster/status/239662650412371969

@patjonker @lancearmstrong can't turn a donkey into a race horse just by drugs!

Not a pro. Think he's Tully Lyster's brother. Strong local level cyclists though.

 

[sittingbison]

Don't know if this was posted before, reaction from Jens Voigt...

Jens' comments are lame. He continues to hang with the king doper Lance. Why didn't someone ask about that?

to me voigt was always doped in his 2004-2006 csc years. I'll never forget those ridiculous tour of germany's with him outclimbing leipheimer, ullrich and such

to be fair to the Jensie, he does not say the same platitudes, innuendo and half truths we have heard ad nauseum over the years. He is unequivocal:

“You ask if I doped? Ok here is the answer. No I did not dope in the past, I don’t do it now and not planning to in the future....If that’s what (he said), then it would be not correct. Or maybe I was not a top-level athlete then? Because, you know, I didn’t. So he probably shouldn’t say it that way. You’d say ‘Okay, most of the people” or “everybody I know did this’ but you can’t just say ‘everybody’ like that, you know?”

 

[Benotti69]

to be fair to the Jensie, he does not say the same platitudes, innuendo and half truths we have heard ad nauseum over the years. He is unequivocal:

To be fair to Jens, he is a liar.

 

[the omertà hurts]

a disappointing interview with andy schleck from current tour of beijing.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/andy-schleck-cycling-needs-to-focus-on-the-future

basically says, the past should just be forgotten about as it doesn't impact on the future, which he "believes in". he is unconcerned that the past has just caused the departure of his manager Bruyneel, "It's his problem, not mine," or the fact his brother tested positive at the TdF a couple of months ago. "Everybody knows, even the experts, that it's not a doping product, that Fränk did nothing wrong."

Everyone but Fränk it would seem. "The medical world states that this product... can even cause death. Therefore I really need to find the cause that clarifies how this product ended up in my system: since I didn’t take anything."

Andy seems to be another leading member of the peloton who remains blissfully unaware of the irony when he postulates, "People have to trust us. I know, that's easier said than done, and what we're reading these days doesn't make our sport any more credible."

 

[hrotha]

How do you mean, disappointing? It's exactly what I expected from him. He delivers.

 

[Benotti69]

How do you mean, disappointing? It's exactly what I expected from him. He delivers.

It sure is what is expected from a doper.

 

[Franklin]

It is ancient history... please trust us, we are good boys now.

 

[PCutter]

Yet another rider avoiding the uncomfortable fact that the report includes questionable testing from 2009 and 2010. Or that The reigning Vuelta champion got a 2 year ban. Yep, ancient history

 

[TheEnoculator]

Oh Andy, speak for yourself. Don't you have a brother who got caught juicing three months ago under Bruyneel?

 

[Zam_Olyas]

I would like to ask them how long ago is the past to them...

 

[nevada]

Oh Andy, speak for yourself. Don't you have a brother who got caught juicing three months ago under Bruyneel?

He really is the most stupid bloke in pro cycling.