Reactions from the peloton

[hrotha]

Why don't you take your ethnic prejudice and racism to a neonazi forum, and shove it up Jan Ullrich, Erik Zabel, Stefan Schumacher, and Team Telekom's ***es.

I'm Spanish and I agree with Lukenwolf.

 

[Zam_Olyas]

Lance gave money to Indurain and Sanchez..you know as the economy is bad in Spain.

 

[sublimit]

Whats the betting that the Barcelona FC players come out and big him up as a great champion.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

As I stated before, the people who keep saying "no proof" "no evidence" (Hein, Liggett, now Mig) need to also proudly state that Jerry Sandusky should be set free for the same exact reasons. He was convicted entirely on eye witness testimony, almost entirely from his victims. Not one single shred of physical evidence. Not one.

Thus, of you think Lance is innocent on that basis, you must also think Sandusky is innocent and should be set free.

 

[Lukenwolf]

Why don't you take your ethnic prejudice and racism to a neonazi forum, and shove it up Jan Ullrich, Erik Zabel, Stefan Schumacher, and Team Telekom's ***es.

Because I've done so in other threads? It isn't racist to ackjnowledged that the Spanish authorities do diddly squat to fight doping. And I resent the neonazi remark. Your post had been duely reported.

 

[Love the Scenery]

So you think 40 million Spaniards support doping ... the parents on the street protesting against cuts in school budgets ... the home owners resisting foreclosure on their houses ... the protesters criticizing the entire political system ... if anyone is in favor of doping for nationalist purposes, it's a few government officials, sports federations, and athletes, not "the Spanish." Similar ridiculous comments could be made about just about any country, including Germany.

Leave ethnic prejudice and nationalist hatred at home. The vast majority of Spaniards are disgusted with the system, including the politicians who want to use sport for political purposes and advocate doped heroes like Contador. If there is one country in Europe where the people are showing that they reject the politicians, it's Spain. Politicians are the disease, not Spanish citizens.

Nobody of any country should have resist ethnic prejudice on a cycling forum. It's stupid, it's ignorant, it's hurtful, it's flat out wrong. You want to criticize the politicians, criticize them. You want to criticize 40 million people because a few politicians suck? Really?

 

[Love the Scenery]

Spanish authorities

Criticizing the Spanish authorities is one thing. Criticizing the Spanish is another. Learn the difference and stop insulting ethnic groups and nations.

 

[Lukenwolf]

I have spoken of the authorites, not of the spanish public. Go re-read my post and there are other ways to express disagreement than the n-word.

 

[hrotha]

Leave ethnic prejudice and nationalist hatred at home. The vast majority of Spaniards are disgusted with the system, including the politicians who want to use sport for political purposes and advocate doped heroes like Contador.

It's pretty obvious he was referring to the Spanish cycling world, mostly to the riders and governing bodies. As for the bit about Contador: no, the vast majority of Spaniards are disgusted with the politicians, but they support the likes of Contador and Valverde. They're completely separate matters.

 

[Love the Scenery]

I have spoken of the authorites, not of the spanish public. Go re-read my post and there are other ways to express disagreement than the n-word.

There are other ways to express disagreement than calling Indurain's misguided statement a "Spanish desease" (sic). That I call fomenting ethnic and nationalist prejudice. And I don't mind calling it what it is.

You want to criticize the authorities, criticize them. You want to criticize nations and ethnic groups, I'll call it what it is. The Spanish are not responsible for Miguel Indurain's stupidity, any more than you or other Germans are personally responsible for Team Telekom.

 

[Lukenwolf]

You want to criticize the authorities, criticize them. You want to criticize nations and ethnic groups, I'll call it what it is. The Spanish are not responsible for Miguel Indurain's stupidity, any more than you or other Germans are personally responsible for Team Telekom.

This notoriously lax attitude towards the fight against doping IS a spanish specialty. So I'm not exactly wrong. And I do believe that it is a desease within spanish cycling (and nothing else was I talking about). You merely try to contrive an offense, where none was intended. It isn't a coincidence that

a) The most outragious comments now come from spanish riders or ex-riders
b) Not even the Ulrich case (and that was handled appallingly bad by German authorities) was dragged out as long as Contador's case

I still think my post was justified. Your reply wasn't. End of discussion for me. You obviously decline to try to understand the post in the way it was intended.

 

[Love the Scenery]

This notoriously lax attitude towards the fight against doping IS a spanish specialty. So I'm not exactly wrong.

That's funny, I thought Pat McQuaid was Irish, and Hein Verbruggen Dutch. Let's start talking about the Irish and Dutch then, because obviously if one member of a nation is an idiot, the fault must be the entire nation's

 

[Lukenwolf]

That's funny, I thought Pat McQuaid was Irish, and Hein Verbruggen Dutch. Let's start talking about the Irish and Dutch then, because obviously if one member of a nation is an idiot, the fault must be the entire nation's

Please read the cyclingnews archives how often the spanish antidoping authorities (or whatever passes for it these days) did drag out inquiries, let off caught dopers lightly and simply didn't do enough to catch dopers. You will realize that they are mentioned quite often. Other nations had the same problem, notably Germany and only got their **** together after the Freiburg scandal. I think it is justified to state that the spanish authorities haven't yet caught up to the authorities of other nations.
This isn't about Indurains brain fart. It's about the lax attitude of the cycling union and their anti-doping people that creates fertile ground for such a mindset.

 

[Love the Scenery]

This notoriously lax attitude towards the fight against doping IS a spanish specialty. So I'm not exactly wrong.

To put it a different way, this is an equivalent false logic:

Pat McQuaid is corrupt
Pat McQuaid is Irish
Corruption is an Irish disease

This is the false logic that is being used. It is nothing but a vehicle for fomenting ethnic and national prejudice, has no logic or validity.

 

[skidmark]

That's funny, I thought Pat McQuaid was Irish, and Hein Verbruggen Dutch. Let's start talking about the Irish and Dutch then, because obviously if one member of a nation is an idiot, the fault must be the entire nation's

no no no, the Dutch are lax against dope, not doping.

 

[No_Balls]

Criticizing the Spanish authorities is one thing. Criticizing the Spanish is another. Learn the difference and stop insulting ethnic groups and nations.

You must understand that everyone around here is so stressed its their guys who are involved with needles and syringes up their asses so now they need to take it out against the spanish. Ok, we doped (and probably everyone else) but you, who doped, are more bad guys then us.

I bet some guys in this moment working on a theory it was the spanish inqusition who introduced drugs to the sport.

 

[Love the Scenery]

Other nations had the same problem

False logic that equates a nation with its antidoping laws.

This isn't about Indurains brain fart. It's about the lax attitude of the cycling union and their anti-doping people that creates fertile ground for such a mindset.

Much more accurate language, thank you. I'll consider the point made.

 

[Lukenwolf]

To put it a different way, this is an equivalent false logic:

Pat McQuaid is corrupt
Pat McQuaid is Irish
Corruption is an Irish disease

This is the false logic that is being used. It is nothing but a vehicle for fomenting ethnic and national prejudice, has no logic or validity.

You know, one of us is soon gonna end up looking like a complete tool. Either me for trying the umpteenth time to explain a simple thing to you, that you simply do not get. Or it'll be you for denying a simple truth that couldn't be more obvious if it pleasured you in the back of a limo.

Never in any of my posts did I write something, implied or explicitely expressed, that was meant as a racist or nationalist remark. I spoke about a certain mindset within spanish cycling that even some of the spanish member agree with. Last time I explained that

 

[No_Balls]

It's pretty obvious he was referring to the Spanish cycling world, mostly to the riders and governing bodies. As for the bit about Contador: no, the vast majority of Spaniards are disgusted with the politicians, but they support the likes of Contador and Valverde. They're completely separate matters.

There is a reason for that. The media who is close to the governing body celebrates them as heroes and/or if they are facing a doping issue they goes the "we-against-world" rant. It is pratically the same that kept Armstrong at bay in the public eye when they played the old French vs americans-tune after that infamous EPO-test was made public from french newspaper L´Equipe.

 

[TheEnoculator]

Though it's never good to generalize, you have to admit, it's hard not to do that against the Spanish peloton.

Contador, being one of the best riders in the world, was never outspoken against doping, and he was named in several drug scandals. And then he got caught. Valverde, even to this day, still refuses to admit he did anything wrong. Now you have Samu and Indurain actually calling Armstrong innocent. I have not heard one Spanish rider being as outspoken as JV and Millar in the subject of doping.

The fact that the Spanish cycling federation flipped flopped on the Contador issue, i.e. first it was one year suspension, then completely acquitted him soon after, and right before the season started for Contador, was already enough to tell me that the Spaniards are lax towards doping.

 

[Mrs John Murphy]

I have not heard one Spanish rider being as outspoken as JV and Millar in the subject of doping.

There is one.

Manzano

However, when you contrast the reaction of Spanish riders to the reaction of French riders the difference in attitude emerges in stark contrast.

 

[H2OUUP2]

Samu! Why?!

“I think there should be a fair trial. You cannot punish a person only by verbal accusations"


Massive face palm......

 

[No_Balls]

Though it's never good to generalize, you have to admit, it's hard not to do that against the Spanish peloton.

Yes, it is quite obvious "we" have a lax attitude. But then again it is always good for other nations so they can point at how good themselves are. Before they get caught of course...

Contador, being one of the best riders in the world, was never outspoken against doping, and he was named in several drug scandals.

Several? The first and only before the famous Steakgate was the signature "A.C" on a bloodbag. Then he was banned for minimial amounts of Clenbuentarol from which danish rider Nielsen was cleared. My problem with him for now is his position in the belgian-led Discoveryteam 2007 and perhaps the same belgian-led Astana 2009:

http://seattletimes.com/html/sports/2016491595_apcycdopingnielsen.html

You are not hearing any demands on belgians to spoke out against doping do you?

And then he got caught. Valverde, even to this day, still refuses to admit he did anything wrong.

It is clear as a day the Valverde-case is very strange though.

 

[Descender]

So you think 40 million Spaniards support doping ... the parents on the street protesting against cuts in school budgets ... the home owners resisting foreclosure on their houses ... the protesters criticizing the entire political system ... if anyone is in favor of doping for nationalist purposes, it's a few government officials, sports federations, and athletes, not "the Spanish." Similar ridiculous comments could be made about just about any country, including Germany.

Leave ethnic prejudice and nationalist hatred at home. The vast majority of Spaniards are disgusted with the system, including the politicians who want to use sport for political purposes and advocate doped heroes like Contador. If there is one country in Europe where the people are showing that they reject the politicians, it's Spain. Politicians are the disease, not Spanish citizens.

Nobody of any country should have resist ethnic prejudice on a cycling forum. It's stupid, it's ignorant, it's hurtful, it's flat out wrong. You want to criticize the politicians, criticize them. You want to criticize 40 million people because a few politicians suck? Really?

Spain has a doping problem, one that is much bigger than in most other nations.

The Spanish authorities are too lax and lenient towards doping matters, the Spanish cyclists have a terrible track record when it comes to doping and above all, they're showing an outrageous attitude towards it.

The Spanish media hail proven dopers as national heroes.

And yes, the Spanish population in general and the cycling fans in particular show much more understanding for doping and are show less of a will to fight it than in most other countries.

 

[No_Balls]

Spain has a doping problem, one that is much bigger than in most other nations.

Source for that?

http://english.gazzetta.it/More_spo...nk-accounts-fake-contracts-912946609743.shtml

And yes, the Spanish population in general and the cycling fans in particular show much more understanding for doping and are show less of a will to fight it than in most other countries.

Source for that?