Reactions from the peloton

[hrotha]

So I translated Manzano's article:

Everyone here is tainted

I wasn't surprised by the Lance Armstrong thing, just as I wouldn't be surprised if it had been John Doe. I raced in that era and I know how it worked. Those who had the most money to pay for a good doctor were at the top. Let no one fool themselves. You don't win the Tour de France by eating lettuce, chicken fillets or pasta with Parmesan. Just like if you have a steak for dinner you don't test positive for clenbuterol, because you would have to eat the whole cow. And who has a whole cow for dinner?

After the Vuelta a España I met a currently active rider, one of the few who still talk to me, and he told me: "You don't feel the same sudden kick at the back of the peloton as before, but the speed is still high". People don't charge to the levels of the old days anymore, the middle class is shorter on energy, but cycling hasn't cleaned up yet. How could it, if people like Bjarne Riis, who admitted to having won the Tour while doped, who raced with a hematocrit of 62% and who climbed Hautacam on the big chainring while whistling, are still involved? What kind of lessons can Riis teach? There's only one solution here: all old school DS's and masseuses must go, and fresh people should come in. That's the only way to clean up cycling. The cunning old foxes are still there because they want to milk the cow for all its worth, but one day they will milk it dry. Right now we have the example of Rabobank, which has left the peloton just like other sponsors did. Speaking of Rabobank: man, did some of their riders race fast in my time! That's why I have to insist: everyone here is tainted. This calls for a huge cleansing.

 

[Velo_vicar]

He is going for the Armstrong test theory.

So it wasn't 2 years ago, it was 12 years ago, now it is 15 years ago, next time it will be 20 years ago.

I think he is working on the idea that if you repeat a lie often enough it will be accepted as truth.

Not that anyone in the media will ever call him for his bull****.

I think if he was writing history you could nail him for something here but it was clearly a throw away line exaggerated for effect. A pretty common oratory technique, similar to saying all cyclists dope even if there might be a few who don't. The point being made is it is in the past not exactly 15 years ago. If wiggins is going to be nailed for any wrong doing it is going to be proof (including eye witness testimony which is proof) that gets him not people seeing everything he says and does as backing a conclusion that has already been forged. You don't have to like him but if you are serious about exposing him then you need to show that it is not driven by subjective opinion but by proof. Otherwise you are to easy to dismiss.

 

[Benotti69]

I think if he was writing history you could nail him for something here but it was clearly a throw away line exaggerated for effect. A pretty common oratory technique, similar to saying all cyclists dope even if there might be a few who don't. The point being made is it is in the past not exactly 15 years ago. If wiggins is going to be nailed for any wrong doing it is going to be proof (including eye witness testimony which is proof) that gets him not people seeing everything he says and does as backing a conclusion that has already been forged. You don't have to like him but if you are serious about exposing him then you need to show that it is not driven by subjective opinion but by proof. Otherwise you are to easy to dismiss.

What was in the past? Armstrong only retired in 2010! Bruyneel lost his job less than a week ago. Ferarri is still doping riders and athletes. Hincapie and Leipheimer were racing this year.

What is this past Wiggins in trying to spin?

 

[H2OUUP2]

What was in the past? Armstrong only retired in 2010! Bruyneel lost his job less than a week ago. Ferarri is still doping riders and athletes. Hincapie and Leipheimer were racing this year.

What is this past Wiggins in trying to spin?

I agree. It's not just Wiggins saying it either. Sounds like some riders just want this to go away very quickly before their names gets brought up.

 

[AussieEdge]

If everyone is right about the UCL & being corrupt- Does it surprise you? Could be a case of 'speak out or your finished' - clean or dirty, no one want to lose their job

 

[Velo_vicar]

If and I am not saying it has a new era begins the past era can be the past 1 day ago or 1 year ago. I am not saying his take is right I am just saying taking every comment he makes as though he has spent hours crafting it and then nailing him on a literal interpretation shows up a prejudice against him that will not help in presenting actual proof. In a court a case can be dismissed if the prosecution is shown to be personally prejudicial against the accused. So I am saying nailing him for throw away comments is not going to help the case that you and others are convinced of and are trying to prove that he is a doper. It undermines it because it can look as though it is driven by a personal dislike rather than cold hard unemotional facts. People on here believe they have those facts so I am just saying stick to them otherwise you can be dismissed quite easily.

 

[Racelap]

Wiggins said in Tour interview that all this happened "15 years ago"

15!!!!!!

That was when flipping Ullrich won the Tour, before even Pantani.

Bradley, Bradley, Bradley. No matter how deeply you stick your deathly thin fingers into your gigantic ears, you can't scrunch your eyes shut and wish away reality.

Schleck - popped just a few months ago.

Contador - popped in 2010, lost 2010 and 2011 GT victories

Lance - evidence of doping in his 2009 and 2010 tour appearances

You can't run (or pedal) away from the truth, Bradley. No matter how high you climb in Tenerife you can't escape the facts.

 

[hfer07]

and Merckx goes again....

Merckx said: "I'm sick, only for my sport. I met Lance many times, he never told me about doping, physicians or other things. He did not need to report to me, it was his problem but I fell into the trap. I am amazed at him, especially after what he went through." he told Le Soir.

Please correct me if i'm wrong: Wasn't Mr Merckx himself whom introduced LA to Ferrari?

 

[Ferminal]

Yes.

And yet again, the people who print these lies don't correct the details.

 

[Not Riding Enough]

'Hysterical': Evans bemused by media coverage of Armstrong scandal

'Hysterical': Evans bemused by media coverage of Armstrong scandal

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/sport/cycling...ong-scandal-20121024-285ua.html#ixzz2AH5srFx3

"Evans praised USADA for lifting a lid on the rampant use of drugs with the Australian stating he had noticed a big change since first competing on the 2005 tour."

BUT the following (along with 'Hysterical') unfortunately rings alarm bells with me.

"Evans believed the sport had learned from the mistakes of the past and the sport was now on ‘‘a level playing field’’."

 

[richwagmn]

Isn't this thread mis-titled? Shouldn't it be the f*cking non-reaction from the peloton?

 

[Mad Elephant Man]

'Hysterical': Evans bemused by media coverage of Armstrong scandal

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/sport/cycling...ong-scandal-20121024-285ua.html#ixzz2AH5srFx3

"Evans praised USADA for lifting a lid on the rampant use of drugs with the Australian stating he had noticed a big change since first competing on the 2005 tour."

BUT the following (along with 'Hysterical') unfortunately rings alarm bells with me.

"Evans believed the sport had learned from the mistakes of the past and the sport was now on ‘‘a level playing field’’."

Evans seems though to imply he was a clean victim of the doping with these quotes

I can understand it is very confronting for everyone involved and I was there trying to follow in 2005.

I think if anyone should be disappointed it should be myself but these things cause change and already have caused changes and from these events we have already moved forward for the better.

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/sport/cycling...ong-scandal-20121024-285ua.html#ixzz2AHJRzb9e

Of course the chances that Evans was actually clean in 2005 are extremely slim.

 

[Franklin]

Meh I'd say Hysterical is exactly the right description (and is what is going wrong). It's hysterical because this is no surprise at all. Everyone in the sport and media knew most of it. And this is what causes the whole process to go bonkers. Everyone focusses on Lance and nobody is actually trying to fix the thing.

And the other comments... what do you want him to say? These colleagues and friends I race with, I never saw it as they are on different teams, but I know they are dirty?

Also, as a profesional, does he need to burn down the house? We can all howl, but the truth is that things have changed. I surely see huge issues, but to judge every diplomatic answer is really asking too much.

Answers like Evans and Froome are mature and clear. They are riders, not doping hunters/governing members/managers or judges.

 

[singletrack mind]

The 80's and 90's? How about 2009 and 2010?

 

[skidmark]

I would like to ask what people think would be an appropriate response from someone currently clean in the peloton? I mean, taking into account their jobs and the idea that they are maybe not people who sit on the clinic for any amount of time and don't really think about doping. Obviously this varies with riders, but I think we forumites tend to react with our own biases in mind.

My thoughts are that if I were clean and in the peloton, I would say something like 'it's very frustrating to deal with these questions; all I'm trying to do is race the sport clean and ethically, and I don't want the focus to be on doping. At the same time, I understand that people are interested in this because what's happening right now is to the biggest figure in the history of our sport. I think it sucks that this happened, and that doping doesn't belong in this sport. But I don't know what I can do other than to assert that what I'm doing is clean, and to keep trying to prove it on the road'.

What else could I say? Would I say 'it sucks that Valverde is still riding'? Probably not, that wouldn't serve me very well and it's not very classy. Plus it's not going to do anything. Would I say 'the UCI sucks'? Maybe, but I'd probably just say I was concerned and only harp on it if I were self-serving and wanted attention (David Millar much?) Really, if I were just a pro that wanted to do his job and wasn't trained in slick media coaching, I would just say that I hoped we could get past it and that this would discourage people doping now from doing so.

Looking at it from a clinic perspective, that sounds like a pretty weaksauce response (in fact, it sounds very close to what Froome said the other day, and then suspiciously Cav and Wigans have come out with the 'just gotta keep doing what I'm doing' line, like they're coached by the same PR firm). But really, I can't see how else I'd respond if I were me doing that job, just trying to get past it and focus on the sport I loved.

Thoughts?

 

[Mrs John Murphy]

First things first. Don't insult the intelligence of the fans - the people who pay the bills and buy the kit. They are your meal ticket.

i) Support the whistleblowers. Lament that it took so long for the news to come out but be glad that justice has been served.

ii) Don't play the victim as Frodo does (but then remember nothing is ever Frodo's fault)

iii) Don't lie and pretend that the sport is now totally clean - acknowledge that the sport still has dopers and that the sport needs to take steps to ensure that they are kicked out and that a scandal like this can never happen again.

iv) I would also say that this is a step in the right direction but there is still a long way to go before a truly clean peloton emerges.

 

[taiwan]

the rot which set in, to the sport’s shame, in the 80s and 90s

So soon doping will be something that happened 30 years ago. I for one am glad that we have exited that dark era.

 

[fat_boy_fat]

Marcel Kittel on Twitter:

I feel SICK when I read that Contador, Sanchez & Indurain still support Armstrong. How does someone want to be credible by saying that?!

https://twitter.com/marcelkittel/status/261435018256216064

 

[peterst6906]

Marcel Kittel ‏@marcelkittel
I mean, it makes it all worse. They should play their false game somewhere else. Or do they ride for money instead of joy?! #weirdpeople

 

[luckyboy]

Very strong from Kittel

 

[fat_boy_fat]

Kittel crossed the line. I wonder if he will be allowed to stay on this side of the truth.

 

[Mrs John Murphy]

It certainly stands in stark contrast to what the likes British riders have been saying.

Expect Kittel's comments not to be reported anywhere.

 

[cineteq]

Kittel crossed the line. I wonder if he will be allowed to stay on this side of the truth.

We need more Kittels on every team.

 

[Ney the Viking]

I read the Kittel comments on eb.dk so it is being reported somewhere, i have a feeling a sportsjournalist or two has opened their eyes over the past two months. I have not had a favourite sprinter in ages, but I have a feeling I will be rooting for Kittel from now on

 

[WinterRider]

Finally a reasonable reaction from a Spanish cyclist, from here:

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2012...f=sports&_r=1&

"LeMond won support from Pedro Delgado, the 1988 Tour winner, who used his Twitter account to post a headline that said corruption was a bigger problem for cycling than drugs."