Reactions from the Pro Peloton to #USPSConspiracy (USADA) - post here

[ultimobici]

Who will you believe? Abt or a rider on Motorola? Abt cannot even bring himself to say that Armstrong doped. Bishop is probably the rider who recently contacted the USADA to say he is willing to help.

What about Steve Swart?

In his 12 years as a professional cyclist, Frankie Andreu was a domestique, a worker bee whose job was to help a top rider like Armstrong win.

He said his introduction to performance-enhancing drugs came in 1995, when he and Armstrong were with the Motorola team. He said some of the team’s riders felt that they could no longer compete with some European teams that had rapidly improved and were rumored to be using EPO.

Motorola’s top riders asked their doctor, Massimo Testa, about the drug’s safety because more than a dozen young riders in Europe had died mysteriously of heart attacks. Some cyclists had linked those deaths to rumored EPO use.

Dr. Testa, now a sports medicine specialist at the University of California at Davis, said in a telephone interview that he had given each rider literature about EPO, in case any of them decided to use it on their own.

Dr. Testa said he urged the riders not to take the drug, but he wanted them to be educated.

“If you want to use a gun, you had better use a manual, rather than to ask the guy on the street how to use it,” he said. “I cannot rule out that someone did it.”

One of Armstrong’s teammates, Steve Swart, has admitted using EPO while riding for Motorola. He discussed his time with the team in the book “L.A. Confidential: The Secrets of Lance Armstrong,” which was published in 2004, only in French.

The book’s allegations that Armstrong doped prompted the lawsuit between Armstrong and SCA Promotions, which was settled out of court in February. Because of Armstrong’s suspected drug use, SCA withheld a $5 million bonus after he won the 2004 Tour de France. Armstrong and Tailwind Sports, the company that owned his cycling team, sued SCA for the money.

Testimony in the case was never supposed to become public. A confidential settlement awarded Armstrong and Tailwind Sports the bonus, and $2.5 million in interest and lawyers’ costs. The Times obtained the legal documents in July.

In testimony in the case, Swart, a retired rider from New Zealand, said top riders on Motorola discussed EPO in 1995. He testified that Armstrong told teammates that there was “only one road to take” to be competitive. In a sworn deposition, Swart said the meaning of Armstrong’s comment was clear: “We needed to start a medical program of EPO.”

EPO, cortisone and testosterone were common in European cycling, Swart said in a telephone interview. He said using cortisone, a steroid, was regarded as “sucking on a candy stick.” Cyclists acquired the drugs from European pharmacies and took them in private, Swart said. “You basically became your own doctor,” he said.

He said signs of drug use were widespread at the 1994 and 1995 Tours, when there was no testing for EPO.

“Everyone was walking around with their own thermos, and you could hear the sound — tinkle, tinkle, tinkle — coming from the thermoses because they were filled with ice and vials of EPO,” Swart said. “You needed to keep the EPO cold, and every night at the hotel, the guys would be running around trying to find some ice to fill up their thermos.”

‘It Was for Lance’

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/09/12/sports/othersports/12cycling.html?pagewanted=print

 

[BroDeal]

The question is not whether LA was doping before '94, but whether he knew about EPO and was using it before '94. As far as I know, the Abt article is the only one that even raises the issue. I'd be happy to hear differently, though.

From the article about Bishop:

Bishop raced with Lance Armstrong on a professional team from 1991-1993 and for the cyclist who says he's spent his entire career without doping it was frustrating to watch Armstrong and other athletes reap the benefits of an illegal performance enhancing drug called EPO.

 

[the sceptic]

http://www.vg.no/sport/sykkel/artikkel.php?artid=10068100

Thor Hushovd sticks up for his old friend Lance

"Hushovd says that riders that cheat deserve punishment, but he doesnt wont to judge his buddy today"

"Lance never tested positive (lol!) thats why this is a difficult case"

"The case boils down to some people, for different reasons, talking about what theyve seen and heard, if there was a positive test, the case would be ok"

"If i had a buddy that got caught drunk driving then he is still my buddy. But its dissapointing if this is true, on the other hand Lance has done a lot for other people in different circumstances"

 

[Turner29]

Gerard Vroomen's first swipe at it calls Horner's arguments B.S. Which they are...

http://gerard.cc/2012/06/15/horner-on-lance/

Doris Day still thinks Rock Hudson was straight.

 

[Maxiton]

From the article about Bishop:

Bishop raced with Lance Armstrong on a professional team from 1991-1993 and for the cyclist who says he's spent his entire career without doping it was frustrating to watch Armstrong and other athletes reap the benefits of an illegal performance enhancing drug called EPO.

Thanks, Bro. Do you have a link to that article?

Doris Day still thinks Rock Hudson was straight.

I like Vroomen more and more.

 

[hrotha]

http://www.vg.no/sport/sykkel/artikkel.php?artid=10068100

Thor Hushovd sticks up for his old friend Lance

"Hushovd says that riders that cheat deserve punishment, but he doesnt wont to judge his buddy today"

"Lance never tested positive (lol!) thats why this is a difficult case"

"The case boils down to some people, for different reasons, talking about what theyve seen and heard, if there was a positive test, the case would be ok"

"If i had a buddy that got caught drunk driving then he is still my buddy. But its dissapointing if this is true, on the other hand Lance has done a lot for other people in different circumstances"

Funny, remember that story about the Crédit Agricole guys barely believing they had won that TTT because they *knew* they were racing against doped teams?

 

[BroDeal]

Thanks, Bro. Do you have a link to that article?

http://www.fox44abc22yourvoice.com/...=default&clipId=7651832#.UDgQcpZiHfI.facebook

There is a bit of a question there. It would be nice to see an actual quote from Bishop about it. That section of the article could be Bishop's take on what was happening to the sport as a whole regarding EPO use, and the author applied it to Armstrong. Armstrong's drug use observed by Bishop might have been steroids, corticosteroids, etc. Without a lot of detail, Swart mentioned that the team had pre-EPO stuff available before Armstrong pushed everyone to use EPO.

 

[Maxiton]

http://www.fox44abc22yourvoice.com/...=default&clipId=7651832#.UDgQcpZiHfI.facebook

There is a bit of a question there. It would be nice to see an actual quote from Bishop about it. That section of the article could be Bishop's take on what was happening to the sport as a whole regarding EPO use, and the author applied it to Armstrong. Armstrong's drug use observed by Bishop might have been steroids, corticosteroids, etc. Without a lot of detail, Swart mentioned that the team had pre-EPO stuff available before Armstrong pushed everyone to use EPO.

Thanks for that. And, yes, I for one assumed they were all doping their brains out from the beginning. As far as EPO goes, though, it's likely I think that Armstrong was among the first on the team to try it. You know that once he did, and felt the result, he must have been pushing for its use by the team right away - especially if he thought other teams were doing it.

EDIT: Having watched the news report with Bishop, I think it was the reporter who was conflating EPO and other doping.

 

[the sceptic]

Funny, remember that story about the Crédit Agricole guys barely believing they had won that TTT because they *knew* they were racing against doped teams?

Yeah, they beat some amazing teams on that day. Must have been the power of the yellow jersey

 

[thehog]

http://www.vg.no/sport/sykkel/artikkel.php?artid=10068100

Thor Hushovd sticks up for his old friend Lance

"Hushovd says that riders that cheat deserve punishment, but he doesnt wont to judge his buddy today"

"Lance never tested positive (lol!) thats why this is a difficult case"

"The case boils down to some people, for different reasons, talking about what theyve seen and heard, if there was a positive test, the case would be ok"

"If i had a buddy that got caught drunk driving then he is still my buddy. But its dissapointing if this is true, on the other hand Lance has done a lot for other people in different circumstances"

Yep be nice if he stuck up for his team mate Hincapie who testified.

 

[MaxVO2]

George Hincapie has tarnished his legacy by being so mysterious regarding the whole Lance Armstrong scandal. To my knowledge he still hasn't publicly acknowledged his participation in the case (probably because of the pending cases at the behest of the prosecution), whether he testified, what he said, or whether he doped at all.

I hope he confesses sooner rather than later, because all the hero worship and accolades don't mean much if he remains reticent on a sport that he so loves. Phil Ligget's praise sounded so dishonest knowing what's going on underneath the surface with LA's, JB's, and the others' cases.

What gets me the most is when asked direct questions about LA, he would always deny and lie that he said nothing. He is a liar. Would have been better if he just said "no comment" rather than deny and lie. This goes to not only George, but to all the other "teammates" that testified to the grand jury.

 

[ToreBear]

http://www.vg.no/sport/sykkel/artikkel.php?artid=10068100

Thor Hushovd sticks up for his old friend Lance

"Hushovd says that riders that cheat deserve punishment, but he doesnt wont to judge his buddy today"

"Lance never tested positive (lol!) thats why this is a difficult case"

"The case boils down to some people, for different reasons, talking about what theyve seen and heard, if there was a positive test, the case would be ok"

"If i had a buddy that got caught drunk driving then he is still my buddy. But its dissapointing if this is true, on the other hand Lance has done a lot for other people in different circumstances"

I didn't read this the same way you did. I read Hushovd as being extremely diplomatic in what he was saying.

I find one part telling:
- Det blir hevdet at mange i sykkelfeltet ikke tør å si hva de mener om en maktfaktor som Lance Armstrong?

It's been said that many in the peleton don't say what they think about a powerfull figure like Lance A?

- Det vet jeg ikke. Det er mange idretter der det er temaer folk ikke snakker om, fordi temaene er sårbare. Men det er ingen tvil om at han er den største profilen i sykkelsporten gjennom alle tider, sier Hushovd.

I don't know. There are many sports where there are themes people don't talk about because those themes might be soar points. But there is no doubt that he is the biggest profile in cykling through all times, Hushovd says.

- Ville du vært redd for å si hva du mener om Armstrong?

Would you be afraid to say what you think about Armstrong?

- Det vil jeg ikke svare på. Det er ofte jeg ikke uttaler meg om noe. Noen ganger sier man mye, andre ganger lite, om enkelte temaer. Det kan handle om formen min og helt andre tind, der man sier lite for å unngå mye støy.

I don't want to answer that question. There are many times I don't speak about things Sometimes one says alot, sometimes little, on some subjects. It kan be about my form and other stuff, where one says little in order to avoid noise.

## (That sounds like a deniable yes answer to me.)




That's just a quick translation. This reads like an ambassador carefully avoiding saying something bad(Perhaps he is angling for a job with the foreign ministry). My impression is that he is not supporting armstrong, but he is carefull not to condemn him either.

At the start of the article it says that he has been in the mountains over the weekend without internet or papers, so he probably is not that well informed of the issues yet.

Interestingly he was having lunch with armstrong as late as july and the BMC managament banned him from talking about the case with the media.

 

[MarkvW]

I vote for cutting the peloton some slack on this issue. Let's wait and see what they have to say after USADA's report comes out. Then, after they've seen the evidence, we can fairly decide whether to dog them, or not.

 

[observer]

Not sure if it has been mentioned but Matt Keenan (Australian Commentator) was interviewed last night on 3AW (Largest Melbourne AM station) and basically said that the USADA are totally right, and that the process needs to continue and he'd like to see all the evidence come out. He also was very much for Armstrong being stripped of all titles, and them not being awarded to anyone.

 

[BroDeal]

Not sure if it has been mentioned but Matt Keenan (Australian Commentator) was interviewed last night on 3AW (Largest Melbourne AM station) and basically said that the USADA are totally right, and that the process needs to continue and he'd like to see all the evidence come out. He also was very much for Armstrong being stripped of all titles, and them not being awarded to anyone.

Good for Keenan. It is always a joy to get a race stream with him commentating. I wish the U.S. networks would toss Phil and Paul in favor of Keenan. The accent would go over well with Americans.

 

[observer]

Good for Keenan. It is always a joy to get a race stream with him commentating. I wish the U.S. networks would toss Phil and Paul in favor of Keenan. The accent would go over well with Americans.

I agree, its good that he is getting more and more air time in Australia. He usually does the first hour or so of the tour, and then any subsequent races SBS may be covering, such as a few stages of the Vuelta.

I'm glad he has taken this approach, I think that sports journalists are generally too scared to speak out, or ask tough questions, in case they get blacklisted.

 

[Big Doopie]

is anything being done to call out phil and paul. they have made buckets off of the fraud. and they are complicit.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

"In 2003 Iban Mayo beat him (Armstrong) in the dauphine TT on the Ventoux and subsequently USPS wrote a letter to the UCI complaining about the euskaltel dopers. UCI warned mayo and co, and that was the end of mayo."

From a poster at the SoS article.

Does someone know more? And did Iban Mayo react to the Armstrong ban?

Thanks in advance...

 

[luckyboy]

Mayo was talked about somewhere in the middle of The Evidence thread.


Just remembered that a friend told me he saw this on tv last Friday (Post Danmark Rundt?) that various cyclists were being asked about Armstrong and then it ended with Cavendish and the exchange went..
"Mark could you just give us a second to tell us your thoughts on Lance Armstrong?"
"No"

 

[neineinei]

Hushovd will not condemn Armstrong because there is no positive test. I wish the journalists would ask him what kind of doping test the anti doping agencies were supposed to use to detect

* Trafficking of EPO, testosterone, and corticosteroids.

* Administration and/or attempted administration to others of EPO, testosterone, and cortisone.

* Assisting, encouraging, aiding, abetting, covering up and other complicity involving one or more anti-doping rule violations and/or attempted anti-doping rule violations.

I can't remember Hushovd defending Ricardo Riccó when he was banned for twelve years without any positive test.

 

[Maxiton]

The bottom line is that Armstrong is a powerful dude in the sport even still, and his pals in the UCI control the sport, essentially. Right now things could go either way for them, but if the future is like the past, they will retain their influence. That, I think, is the way most riders see things. Until that changes, we're not going to hear a whole lot from this lot.

 

[Adamastor]

The question is not whether LA was doping before '94, but whether he knew about EPO and was using it before '94. As far as I know, the Abt article is the only one that even raises the issue. I'd be happy to hear differently, though.

It's clearly mentioned in one of Walsh's books, either the first one (only available in French), or the second one...

By the way, any chance of having the Walsh / Ballester book published in the U.S. now ???

 

[Maxiton]

It's clearly mentioned in one of Walsh's books, either the first one (only available in French), or the second one...

By the way, any chance of having the Walsh / Ballester book published in the U.S. now ???

There's a bootleg/samizdat version of the second one, available on the internet. Not aware of the first one available in translation yet, though.

EDIT: Actually, the bootleg is the first one, L. A. Confidential : Lance Armstrong's Secrets, in translation from the French (L. A. Confidentiel: Les secrets de Lance Armstrong), available free, courtesy of the author, here.

 

[Cycle Chic]

Mads Kaggestad

Interesting article / link I saw on Gustav Larsson's twitter page.

Mads Petter Kaggestad (born February 22, 1977 in Ringerike) is a former Norwegian professional road racing cyclist. He competed for the French Crédit Agricole team between 2003 and 2007. During 2002 he was a member of the amateur Team Krone.

Are all his life's work, with the efforts of cancer battle and it all torn down now?
' Doping is something that creates a risk of cancer, his trick and gamble with their health. And it's something that he has received a lot of followers on completely wrong assumptions. It's nice that he has driven charity, yet he is guilty of breaking laws. There are rumors and speculation that part of the proceeds from Livestrong has gone to legal bills for Armstrong to clear his name. I think Livestrong have started to move away from the Armstrong name, says Kaggestad.

http://translate.google.com/transla...nce_armstrong/doping/mads_kaggestad/23095724/

 

[hrotha]

DE VLAEMINCK, VAN IMPE, GODEFROOT
http://nieuws.vtm.be/sport/201208247230-oud-renners-tonen-begrip-voor-armstrong