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Reasoned decision thread (includes speculation)

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S

skidmark

Mar 13, 2009
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Oh man. This is finally it, a day that might give me hope that things can change in this sport. Guarded or not, Barry and Hincapie confessed. That's a pretty big deal. It will be interesting to see what the active riders have to say, especially Levi...

Either way, the 1000-page truth comes out today about the post-Festina era. Sure, Armstrong is an easy target to hate because he leveraged his doping into becoming the most famous cyclist of all time, not to mention the fact that he's a despicable human being, but this is bigger. If the tide truly has changed in the sport, and there are enough riders/directors/etc willing to ride the wave, this may be the cover coming off that is needed to finally change the dodgy, corrupt dinosaur that is the UCI.

Or it could all just be ignored in a wave of silence, and we'll all be disappointed.

Either way, I'm gonna enjoy this day, for now.
 
Benotti69

Benotti69

May 26, 2010
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Zinoviev Letter said:
That's rather easy to say from afar.

If Barry is telling the truth about riding clean from 2006 (and why wouldn't he tell the truth, now that he's retired) that deserves some respect. At the very least it shows that he felt guilt for doping. Given that doping was a systemic rather than simply an individual problem, opting out of it, at an inevitable career cost, took at least some moral fibre
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.

Yes it easy for them now that they're retired and have made provisions for their retirement no doubt, unlike Landis.

Where was he 2 weeks ago making a statement supporting what Kimmage is doing?

Zinoviev Letter said:
Yes, of course, it would be better if he'd just come out and spilled the beans voluntarily when he got off the hot sauce. But in 2006 that would have ended his career. It's a rather high standard you are holding people to in other words, and one which I suspect most people wouldn't reach.
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You didn't read his statement. He allegedes

I wrote and spoke about the need for change.
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well Barry where is your voice when UCI are trying to screw Kimmage?

I'll get off these guys cases when they are honest and not putting out the typical PR bull**** trying to look like it was a long time ago.
 
T

The Gnome

Oct 25, 2010
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my only gripe is the six month suspensions...self serving "confessions" and all will go home for the usual winter beer and nachos and be back racing at the beginning of next season...that is BS...they ought to have to at least sit out all of next season...drive a stake into armstrong's heart for sure but at least give the lackeys a good slap...
 
rhubroma

rhubroma

Apr 2, 2009
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skidmark said:
Oh man. This is finally it, a day that might give me hope that things can change in this sport. Guarded or not, Barry and Hincapie confessed. That's a pretty big deal. It will be interesting to see what the active riders have to say, especially Levi...

Either way, the 1000-page truth comes out today about the post-Festina era. Sure, Armstrong is an easy target to hate because he leveraged his doping into becoming the most famous cyclist of all time, not to mention the fact that he's a despicable human being, but this is bigger. If the tide truly has changed in the sport, and there are enough riders/directors/etc willing to ride the wave, this may be the cover coming off that is needed to finally change the dodgy, corrupt dinosaur that is the UCI.

Or it could all just be ignored in a wave of silence, and we'll all be disappointed.

Either way, I'm gonna enjoy this day, for now.
Click to expand...

I think the bolded is the more likely scenario within the traditional cycling nations like Belgium, Spain, Italy and, perhaps to a somewhat lesser degree, France. The real problem is that the doping culture in cycling is so ingrained in these places that no initiative coming from America will make such a tradition change, or if so only marginally. This is because the sport has literally made doping a regiment that has even led to cycling having had as the top brass for the past 20 years the beguiling and mendacious likes of Verbruggen and his dauphine McQuide.

Then you have the Camorra, that is the Neapolitan mafia, which has been the main supplier and distributor of all the doping products throughout Europe. The stuff comes into Naples and then circulates through the medics of Italy, Spain and Germany. This too will have to be dismantled, however, the Italian state has thus far had little success in eradicating the malavita promoted by these nefarious mafia clans. Hence the doping in cycling, as well as a host of other sports, is bigger than any one of them, involving as it does an entire network of black market/organized crime. It's to put it baldly, criminals assisting a thoroughly corrupt network of medics, athletes and administrators, all of which must be brought down simultaneously for change to occur. Though whenever big business is at stake, usually the drive for glory (human nature) and profit overide any ethical concerns.

There is also another problem, perhaps the biggest of them all: namely, the pharmaceutical research labs that keep producing drugs that find their way into sport, when the performance enhancing benefits they provide are discovered. Naturally for years there is no reliable test to detect these latest doping products and, consequently, there is nothing to prevent their use and so a continued regime of doping within sport.

However, at least the public will now come to know how high level sport really operates. The only way I see serious cultural change is if the sponsors pull out.
 
R

Racelap

Jul 6, 2012
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One evening while Vaugthers was in Armstrong’s room borrowing Armstrong’s laptopArmstrong injected himself in front of Vaughters with a syringe used for EPO injections, saying “[n]ow that you are doing EPO too, you can’t go write a book about it.”
50
From that pointforward Armstrong was open with Vaughters about Armstrong’s use of EPO.
51
Click to expand...

Game over, sucker.
 
S

ScienceIsCool

Jul 5, 2009
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One evening while Vaugthers was in Armstrong’s room borrowing Armstrong’s laptopArmstrong injected himself in front of Vaughters with a syringe used for EPO injections, saying “[n]ow that you are doing EPO too, you can’t go write a book about it.”
50
From that pointforward Armstrong was open with Vaughters about Armstrong’s use of EPO.
51


Grrr. This is why dopers such as Vaughters cannot be allowed to participate in cycling after they retire from racing. Every time someone took a potshot at Landis et al, Vaughters should have stood up and said "Nope. He's telling the truth". Every time Hincapie, Barry, Leipheimer et al told the media "I'm clean", he should have stood up and said "They're lying".

But he couldn't!! He was and is fatally compromised. He couldn't because it would cost him and his team both professionally and financially. So the problem continues unabated. The lies and deceptions continue without pause.

And once you travel far enough down that path of silence, what do you do when you discover one of your riders is seeing the same doctor that helped you dope (or some other scenario)? The temptation to keep quiet and sweep it under the rug would be immense.

Nothing changes. Nothing gets resolved. Cycling never recovers. As painful as it is, when all this is done the sport needs to purge all the tainted directeurs sportif, doctors, mechanics, and soigneurs from the sport.

John Swanson
 
R

Racelap

Jul 6, 2012
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ScienceIsCool said:
One evening while Vaugthers was in Armstrong’s room borrowing Armstrong’s laptopArmstrong injected himself in front of Vaughters with a syringe used for EPO injections, saying “[n]ow that you are doing EPO too, you can’t go write a book about it.”
50
From that pointforward Armstrong was open with Vaughters about Armstrong’s use of EPO.
51


Grrr. This is why dopers such as Vaughters cannot be allowed to participate in cycling after they retire from racing. Every time someone took a potshot at Landis et al, Vaughters should have stood up and said "Nope. He's telling the truth". Every time Hincapie, Barry, Leipheimer et al told the media "I'm clean", he should have stood up and said "They're lying".

But he couldn't!! He was and is fatally compromised. He couldn't because it would cost him and his team both professionally and financially. So the problem continues unabated. The lies and deceptions continue without pause.

And once you travel far enough down that path of silence, what do you do when you discover one of your riders is seeing the same doctor that helped you dope (or some other scenario)? The temptation to keep quiet and sweep it under the rug would be immense.

Nothing changes. Nothing gets resolved. Cycling never recovers. As painful as it is, when all this is done the sport needs to purge all the tainted directeurs sportif, doctors, mechanics, and soigneurs from the sport.

John Swanson
Click to expand...

I agree. Vaughters, Leipheimer, Hincapie, etc all continued to perpetuate a lie. It's particularly repugnant in the case of Vaughters. He should have received a lifetime ban.
 
Z

Zinoviev Letter

Aug 18, 2010
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If you are going to hand out life time bans to people who cooperate with the anti-doping authorities, you can pretty much guarantee that nobody will cooperated with the anti-doping authorities.

"These guys are getting off with a slap on the wrist" is an Armstrong fanboy talking point. Nothing more.
 
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