Remco Evenepoel

[red_flanders]

Vayer is such a ***.

There’s a reaction I wasn’t expecting.

 

[SKSemtex]

There’s a reaction I wasn’t expecting.

Nobody wants to even immagine that this golden prince of proffecional cycling cannot be clean.
If video like this shows Froome on floor and Brailsford taking this suspacious packet from the thread would explode.

There’s a reaction I wasn’t expecting.

Nobody wants to even immagine that this golden prince of proffecional cycling cannot be clean.

If video like this shows Froome on floor and Brailsford taking this suspecious packet from him, the thread would explode.

 

[red_flanders]

I’m not entirely sure my point was clear there. Of all the things I thought about that clip, shooting the messenger wasn’t among them.

 

[samhocking]

Yeah but it's Vayer, he's not exactly the sharpest tool is he. He posted a video the other day of GVA rotating his crank by hand implying a motor was causing the wheel to spin, when that's exactly what happens when you turn a crank holding the bike off the ground after a crash. The guy who has no idea how adding a motor to a BB or wheel with an SRM spider would not increase watts measured, but decrease them, yet he posts assuming it does. The guy who believed Varjas, so sure, after a trillion claims on thousands of riders doping, he will be correct eventually on one, but it's hardly done with any logic or substance is it lol!

 

[Valanga]

Nobody wants to even immagine that this golden prince of proffecional cycling cannot be clean.

If video like this shows Froome on floor and Brailsford taking this suspecious packet from him, the thread would explode.

Quite the opposite. This only makes a fuzz because people want to see something suspicious.
Bramati came down pretty much together with the stretcher. Sees there is still a bottle in Remco's back pocket, and makes sure the chap, who is already injured, doesn't get hindered by it. Could be as simple as this. Or it could be a really flaky bottle of course... but you'd only think that if you want to think that, and you want to find some dirt on him.

Anyway, non story.

 

[red_flanders]

Yeah but it's Vayer, he's not exactly the sharpest tool is he. He posted a video the other day of GVA rotating his crank by hand implying a motor was causing the wheel to spin, when that's exactly what happens when you turn a crank holding the bike off the ground after a crash. The guy who has no idea how adding a motor to a BB or wheel with an SRM spider would not increase watts measured, but decrease them, yet he posts assuming it does. The guy who believed Varjas, so sure, after a trillion claims on thousands of riders doping, he will be correct eventually on one, but it's hardly done with any logic or substance is it lol!

I have no idea how that's relevant to the video posted. I'm not interested in personal attacks on the messenger, or frankly anyone lauding the messenger. The messenger is irrelevant to the content posted.

The video is quite suspicious. That's not a finding, it's just a call for pointed questions.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

People can argue all day that Remco isn't explosive, doesn't have great acceleration...fine. Then please explain how he rides away from the peloton. It isn't his TTng, because Dennis doesn't do it, Dumo doesn't or hasn't done it. Cance did it sometimes, but not as often or as easily as Remco does it. And I don't buy that it's because competing riders, protected all day, are tired.

His power tests for <5 minute efforts, were by far his biggest weakness. He had been training on that a lot past winter.

His attacks aren't explosive by any means. He's only placed 2 "punchy" attacks. First was in Algarve, when he won when Lopez had an issue with his gears, and the second was in Burgos (last stage) which he didn't win, since Landa & Sosa came back easily enough. All the other times, it's come down to timing and his ability to read when others are on the limit, and he still has something in the tank:

His attack in Poland was placed just when a previous attack was reeled in, going into a supply zone. Everybody was catching a breath and nobody wanted to do the work. Once he has the gap, i think Fuglsang reacts, but it's too late.

His attack in Burgos (3rd stage) was hardly an attack, but Bennett and Chaves had been attacking and bridging eachother a few times. Evenepoel starts to pedal a bit faster while the other two are catching a breath. He's gone.

His attack in Adriatica Ionica, he reacts to someone else, i think Sutterling, one or two other riders follow initially... they simply aren't strong enough to hold his wheel uphill and drop a few hundreds of meters later. Ten minutes later, he does the same with Masnada (who had been in the break the entire day).

His attack in BBT, Campenaerts follows, he just pushes the temp so high that he forces Campenaerts to his limits. In the saddle.

In Classica San Sebastian, he reacts to Skuijns, the Movistar guys almost bridged, but they have been pushing the pace for miles, and never completely bridge, though they came close to shutting it down after 20 seconds. He then drops Skuijns on the climb, riding tempo, in the saddle.

WCC 2018, he drops Mayrhofer by simply pedaling a bit faster, in the saddle.

Hammer Series Limburg, he goes solo at the time the chasers bridge, he accelerates in the saddle downhill, nobody wants to react at the time.

Read some comments by people reacting to those victories. Often they think "they let him win", "he didn't even have to attack, they just let him ride away". In the Poland thread there was a guy claiming the others simply didn't even want to win. Such reactions are very common, however naïve.

Both Dries De Bond and Victor Campenaerts tell a similar story. DDB said he had to push 100 watts more in Evenepoel's wheel, than he had to push in another rider's wheel when they were in the break together, because he's so small and compact (aero). Campenaerts said, during BBT, he had to push the same numbers in Evenepoel's wheel, as he would otherwise push when he went solo. Which likely means, that a small and aero guy like Campenaerts himself, gets close to no benefit of drafting behind Evenepoel, and that Evenepoel goes even faster than Campenaerts would.

In the virtual races and in the containercup, it appears Remco doesn't push insane numbers compared to other top riders. His trainer, Koen Pelgrim also flat out said this when a Sporza commentator interviewed him and asked if he Remco's power numbers were really that special. Pelgrim said 'no'. But combined with his weight, height, aero pose and endurance, those numbers are probably pretty impressive.

I think the most likely explanation has to be that when he's riding in the peloton, he's basically getting a free ride. He doesn't catch any wind, and is a lot more fresh in the final, compared to most other riders. You could say the same for other small riders (Higuita, Sosa...), but those guys aren't great ITT'ers and aren't used to long solo efforts.

The video is quite suspicious. That's not a finding, it's just a call for pointed questions.

The video is as suspicious as you want it to be. He takes something out of Remco's backpocket, moments before he gets strapped to a stretcher. I can only imagine having something sticking into your back, might not be the best idea considering the circumstances. On top of that, it could be anything. What could it possibly be that would make it suspicious? An EPO shot? A list of undercover CIA operatives? What exactly would be in his backpocket, that he would have to take out of his pocket, during the race, open and eat/drink, with all cameras on him at all times?

 

[Parker]

I have no idea how that's relevant to the video posted. I'm not interested in personal attacks on the messenger, or frankly anyone lauding the messenger. The messenger is irrelevant to the content posted.

The video is quite suspicious. That's not a finding, it's just a call for pointed questions.

If you about to lay someone on a stretcher you need to empty their pockets so they lay down properly with nothing digging into their back. There's nothing suspicious about it at all. It's common sense.

Vayer is an attention seeking troll who desperately wants to be a 'somebody' in cycling but lacks any talent. He instead he makes dumb insinuations about doping which get a following from stupid people. No-one sensible listens to him.

 

[red_flanders]

The video is as suspicious as you want it to be. He takes something out of Remco's backpocket, moments before he gets strapped to a stretcher. I can only imagine having something sticking into your back, might not be the best idea considering the circumstances. On top of that, it could be anything. What could it possibly be that would make it suspicious? An EPO shot? A list of undercover CIA operatives? What exactly would be in his backpocket, that he would have to take out of his pocket, during the race, open and eat/drink, with all cameras on him at all times?

There are any number of substances that have helped cyclists "finish" races over the years.. I said it was suspicious. That means it brings suspicion, it doesn't mean that its proof or even evidence of doping. It demands pointed questions like "What was that you pulled out of his jersey and dropped in your pocket?" I"d like to hear the answer one way or another. Just as it's something you wouldn't want in your back pocket getting rolled over, it's not something you'd want lodged in your backside in a crash. It's odd.

If you don't think cyclists have been ingesting finishing substances during races over the years, I'm not sure what to tell you.

 

[red_flanders]

If you about to lay someone on a stretcher you need to empty their pockets so they lay down properly with nothing digging into their back. There's nothing suspicious about it at all. It's common sense.

Sure, it could be that. Or it could be any number of illegal substances. You don't know and I don't know. It remains suspicious and to claim it's not is frankly...dumb.

Vayer is an attention seeking troll who desperately wants to be a 'somebody' in cycling but lacks any talent. He instead he makes dumb insinuations about doping which get a following from stupid people. No-one sensible listens to him.

I don't care about Vayer, and I really don't care what you think about Vayer. I'm commenting on a video I watched. Vayer is immaterial. I can't even read the caption.

 

[samhocking]

The Race Doctor is there, it's pretty obvious he's probably asked him to remove stuff from his pockets before he's strapped to a back board due to risk of paralysis. Anything else is Vayer doing what Vayer does best. Stirring bullsh!t out of nothing obviously suspicious unless you see cycling how he does.

 

[Valanga]

Sure, it could be that. Or it could be any number of illegal substances. You don't know and I don't know. It remains suspicious and to claim it's not is frankly...dumb.



I don't care about Vayer, and I really don't care what you think about Vayer. I'm commenting on a video I watched. Vayer is immaterial. I can't even read the caption.

It's not because something is possible that it's suspicious.

It's possible that you are Vayer himself + you are defending his tweet here. Does that make it suspicious?

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Sure, it could be that. Or it could be any number of illegal substances. You don't know and I don't know. It remains suspicious and to claim it's not is frankly...dumb.

"Remco has something in his backpocket" -> "could be a number of illegal substances!".

lol

 

[Parker]

Sure, it could be that. Or it could be any number of illegal substances. You don't know and I don't know. It remains suspicious and to claim it's not is frankly...dumb.

Emptying the pockets of someone with possible serious back injury before putting them on stabilising stretcher is an obvious to do. To thing that something looks like a piece of paper is something suspicious is frank... super dumb.

It could be a ketone battery for a motor powered by 5G . But I'm going to go with a discarded wrapper or a route map as more likely.

I don't care about Vayer, and I really don't care what you think about Vayer. I'm commenting on a video I watched. Vayer is immaterial. I can't even read the caption.

And the fact that is was Vayer spreading this suspicion should make you stop and think that this is most likely attention seeking BS. Dumb people will lap it up of course. And you lapped it up like a thirsty cat.

 

[fmk_RoI]

To thingkthat something looks like a piece of paper is something suspicious is frank... super dumb

Fair point but ... are we talking about the Princess and the pea here, by any chance? You say the thing taken looks like a piece of paper and you also say that the pockets would be emptied so he could be laid on his back on the stretcher. If he's gonna feel a piece of paper in his pocket then surely the race numbers would have to come off too?

 

[gillan1969]

Can we stick to speculation about cyclists who have 'transformed' because that is the the real 'qualitative' indicator of PED use...the rest is just noise...remco hasn't transformed...........he's very good irrespective of what is in his back pocket not because of........

 

[Parker]

Fair point but ... are we talking about the Princess and the pea here, by any chance? You say the thing taken looks like a piece of paper and you also say that the pockets would be emptied so he could be laid on his back on the stretcher. If he's gonna feel a piece of paper in his pocket then surely the race numbers would have to come off too?

If a paramedic asked you to empty his pockets would you:

a) empty his pockets

b) selectively pick which items you empty based on deliberation as to whether they truly need to be removed

 

[samhocking]

I agree, I think in the context of the guys in red suits above with a stretcher and back plate or whatever he was put on is about to be lowered to him, the Race Doctor there isn't gonna bother saying - empty everything out of his pockets, but you can leave anything in there you don't think will risk his back. As a Dr, you're just gonna say, empty his pockets and that's it. Job done.
If I were to guess, it's a just food/wrapper. He's still got ~45km to go when he crashed. To think a rider would carry anything illegal that can spill out of his pocket and into the public hands after any crash is simply far-fetched. If you're consuming anything against the rules on live TV, you're just gonna take it the moment you receive it imo. Add to that, are team cars really transporting illegal anything these days? It's not exactly the Festina days of a car with 700 PEDs in the boot now.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Fair point but ... are we talking about the Princess and the pea here, by any chance? You say the thing taken looks like a piece of paper and you also say that the pockets would be emptied so he could be laid on his back on the stretcher. If he's gonna feel a piece of paper in his pocket then surely the race numbers would have to come off too?

Of course, the tinfoilhat people assume Bramati is taking something suspicious, then they'll also assume he KNOWS what he's taking out of the pocket to begin with.

Of course, there is also the possibility that he has no idea what is in Remco's pocket, and just takes whatever is in there. Not as exciting though.

So, what actually did happened: Evenepoel drinks the contents of a small white bottle, in front of the camera as he leads the descent, with 47.8km to go, and you can see him put it...

drumrolls

IN HIS BACK POCKET. This is a few minutes before he crashes.

 

[70kmph]

They always use code like rice cakes

 

[red_flanders]

Can we stick to speculation about cyclists who have 'transformed' because that is the the real 'qualitative' indicator of PED use...the rest is just noise...remco hasn't transformed...........he's very good irrespective of what is in his back pocket not because of........

I'm a huge fan of Remco, and so thankful that someone with actual talent has risen to the top after the years of frauds. But I'm also not delusional and understand that doping has not gone away, and while I think someone his age is less likely to be doping, I don't think it's unlikely.

But I'll feel free to comment on riders I like and who are actually talented as well as the absurd frauds we've been subjected to recently.

 

[red_flanders]

Of course, the tinfoilhat people assume Bramati is taking something suspicious, then they'll also assume he KNOWS what he's taking out of the pocket to begin with.

If you're referring to me, you're not listening. I don't ASSUME one way or the other. The removal of what certainly appears to be a container is suspicious to me. Suspicious means it raises eyebrows. That does NOT mean I assume it to be doping products. It could be, and it could be nothing. It could be something other than a container. But it is suspicious.

He certainly looked like he might have known what he was taking out as he didn't look at it. He also could have simply been preoccupied with his rider. So no, no one is assuming he knew anything.

When you have to create strawmen to make your point, you may not have one.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

When you have to create strawmen to make your point, you may not have one.

I wasn't referring to anyone in particular, but if you think it refers to you, then that might be telling in itself.
You are talking about having a point. Like, a rider has something in his backpocket (very suspicious), and his DS takes it out moments before he has to be strapped down to a stretcher with at that time unknown fractures, because he has to be towed up the bridge. These are the facts which you deem suspicious. Oh, but riders in the past have used doping. Yes, quite a convincing case. I think my point is quite clear. You can't prove a hypothesis with another hypothesis. FMK_rol said something along the lines, that, if it were only a wrapper, then why would Bramati feel the need to remove it without removing the numbers. This is assuming Bramati knew what was in his pocket, to conclude it must have been something fishy, because if it was only a paper wrapper, there would be no need to take it. Completely ignoring the much more logical explanation that Bramati did not know exactly what was in his pocket, and just cleared his pocket before they strapped him to the stretcher. Furthermore, his argument was as if the other poster (Parker) knew what was in the pocket. Parker simply said it looked like a paper wrapper, not that it was a paper wrapper. And even if he did, it would be of no consequence since he doesn't know either way.

Three kilometers before the crash, Evenepoel pulls the aluminum foil from what appears to be a small yogurt drink, which he picked up on the top of the climb (he takes something in the supply zone which seems too small to be a regular bottle), five kilometers before the crash. It is a small white can, it can be seen clearly as he is riding right behind the cameramotor. After drinking it, he doesn't throw it away, he puts it in his back pocket. Before doing so, it appears he is compressing it (i'd assume not to have it bulge in his pocket).

Like i said, the video is as suspicious as you want it to be. And you have repeatedly called it suspicious, for something that seems to have a very logical explanation, which is actually backed by what happened right before: the supply zone, the drinking of the small can, and putting the can away in his pocket. It seems rather probable that whatever Bramati took out of his pocket, is the small can he drank only moments before, which he picked up at the supply zone right before that. There is no more reason to assume that whatever Evenepoel was drinking, was any more suspicious than any of the other riders had been drinking.

 

[SKSemtex]

I am a huge fan of Remco. I beg a God he is clean as he can be the living proof that talented, hard-working cyclists can compete and win to a certain point. Yes, I am such a romantic.
My point was something else. That this forum is very subjective. If this video shows somebody else and I am not talking only about the Froome, this thread would explode with a biased reaction.
As so far there has not been a single one strong reaction against him means Remco is extremely respected and popular.

 

[King Boonen]

Fair point but ... are we talking about the Princess and the pea here, by any chance? You say the thing taken looks like a piece of paper and you also say that the pockets would be emptied so he could be laid on his back on the stretcher. If he's gonna feel a piece of paper in his pocket then surely the race numbers would have to come off too?

On the flip side, if you are told to empty his pockets you do it. You don't make a call on what stays in his pockets and what doesn't and the doctor isn't going to stand there and assess each and every item that is pulled out and tell you to either toss it or put it back in. It seems like it would be good practice to empty a cyclists pockets who has a suspected back injury and it would also be standard practice to just do it, not question whether certain items need to be removed.