Remco Evenepoel

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Definitely not over the top like Pogacar. I really never liked Remco with that arrogant deserving attitude but I will be happy to see him kick Pog’s b@TT in any race. UAE and Pog really outdid themselves. And they have the audacity to play him like the good guy in our faces…. Jeez
 
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My final observation is Evenepoel doesn't even seem to have the body type of a time trialist. That body type is longer legs. Evenepoel meanwhile has a super compact build
where did you get that idea? Longer legs make it harder to have a low front end (knees hitting ribcage) and also place you higher on the bike (bb to saddle distance). You want a long torso and short legs, like an alligator.

Since we don't have a large database of inseam and torso dimensions among top and less than top time trialists this is mostly theorycrafting. But I can see no explanation that avoids an uncritical reference to "leverage" that favors long bones in the lower limbs.
 
Well if you think about it, as speeds go up aerodynamics matters exponentially. According to the announcers he's putting out over 100 watts less than Ganna & Tarling. Maybe that explains some of it?

On the flats the required power increases exponentially per unit of velocity, so if his output is truly that much lower his aerodynamics have to be on an absurdly different level to compensate. I mean, he definitely looks incredible on the bike, but that's a wild difference in drag. I think the answer lies somewhere in the middle. The difference in output is probably smaller than 100W, but he's definitely gaining some speed from his superior position as well.
You both seem to forget about the difference in weight of the riders that you are comparing. :rolleyes:
 
Please explain to me how w/kg is not a factor in a flat TT.
Because there's no need to overcome gravitational force and it's an event where riders maintain a constant speed except when cornering?

Here's a nice calculator to show the relationship between watts and speed

All other things equal, here's how much of a factor weight is:

60kg (ie. Remco)
"If you want to ride at groundspeed velocity 55km/h, you must apply 330.58 watts of power."

80kg (ie. Ganna)
"If you want to ride at groundspeed velocity 55km/h, you must apply 345.87 watts of power."


The ~15W difference here, according to the calculator, is purely down to rolling resistance for the heavier rider since there's ever so slightly more tire in contact with the road, about 65.8W vs. 50.7W. This, of course, ignores the fact that Ganna's drag coefficient and surface area will also be considerably bigger since he's a taller guy with, at least according to the eye test, a worse TT position, but drag doesn't affect rolling resistance anyway. Either way, if it is true that Ganna's output is a full 100W higher he's losing about 15 of those watts in his tires because of his heavier weight and the remaining 85W (plus a little bit more seeing as Remco is marginally faster) through pushing more air, which is both because of his increased size and (possibly/probably) worse riding position.

There's a kicker here, though. I've seen estimations of Ganna's FTP being in the 450-470W range, so lets say 460W for him and 360W for Evenepoel with the 100W difference in mind.

That means Ganna's output is 27.8% higher than Evenepoel's. Ganna's rolling resistance is ~29.7% higher than Evenepoel's, so the relationships between output and rolling resistance are pretty much exactly the same. Whichever way you look at it, weight is a minuscule factor in the grand scheme of things when it comes to pure speed in a straight line.

Now, weight is possibly a factor in another area of racing on a flat course as well. Given that the formula for acceleration is a = F/m (essentially acceleration = watts divided by weight) a lighter rider will accelerate back up to speed quicker after corners and such compared to a heavier rider, providing the watts are the same, but they clearly aren't in the case of Remco and Ganna. As I don't have their power values for short efforts like the ones they'd use to get back up to speed quickly it's impossible to do the math with any accuracy, but if the ratio is the same as with their FTP values their accelerations are as good as dead equal. Remco isn't exactly known for his explosive bursts though, so Ganna probably has the advantage if we're being realistic. Not that it matters as far as the point I'm making goes. Weight clearly isn't factor here either.
 
he still specializes more in the CdA side of the equation.

I think Remco is better in the A side of the aero drag equation (lower frontal area). My gut feel is Ganna has a better Cd (position and body shape) because he is taller with a longer, flatter back. Another rider who had a great TT for a little guy was Domenico Pozzovivo - same reason as Remco.
 
As I don't have their power values for short efforts like the ones they'd use to get back up to speed quickly it's impossible to do the math with any accuracy, but if the ratio is the same as with their FTP values their accelerations are as good as dead equal. Remco isn't exactly known for his explosive bursts though, so Ganna probably has the advantage if we're being realistic. Not that it matters as far as the point I'm making goes. Weight clearly isn't factor here either.
Even if Ganna uses the same burst w/kg for acceleration, once you factor in the cost of those bursts it could favor a lighter rider.
 
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Now, weight is possibly a factor in another area of racing on a flat course as well. Given that the formula for acceleration is a = F/m (essentially acceleration = watts divided by weight) a lighter rider will accelerate back up to speed quicker after corners and such compared to a heavier rider, providing the watts are the same, but they clearly aren't in the case of Remco and Ganna. As I don't have their power values for short efforts like the ones they'd use to get back up to speed quickly it's impossible to do the math with any accuracy, but if the ratio is the same as with their FTP values their accelerations are as good as dead equal. Remco isn't exactly known for his explosive bursts though, so Ganna probably has the advantage if we're being realistic. Not that it matters as far as the point I'm making goes. Weight clearly isn't factor here either.
This conclusion is nonsensical to me. We know that Remco has a much better FTP in terms of w/kg because he can climb a lot better. Therefore by your own formula, he has the advantage coming out of corners. "Explosiveness" doesn't give you extra watts on top of your FTP. If Ganna he actually did use a disproportionate amount of watts to accelerate out of corners, he'd pay for it in the steadier sections (see: normalized power).
 
Crazy performance.

How this little bastard, Thomas words, beat big guys like Ganna and Tarling in a flat ITT?

Unbelievable.

Big doper.
It is notable that the belge spilak quite suddenly became the belge indurain.

This is especially notable give his stature at 170cm and 62kg. It is like Sergio henao putting time to ganna in a 40km ITT

Questions must be asked in Brussels
 
It is notable that the belge spilak quite suddenly became the belge indurain.

This is especially notable give his stature at 170cm and 62kg. It is like Sergio henao putting time to ganna in a 40km ITT

Questions must be asked in Brussels
Yes, definitely.

He goes from beating Pantani climbing records to beating guys like Ganna and Tarling in flat ITT a week later?

Crazy stuff.
 
10s W/kg efforts are much moer correlated to anaerobic ability and lactate clearance rather than W/kg FTP.
These efforts are not made in isolation. You can't just take an ~FTP effort and sprinkle some 10s long sprints in the middle without (negatively) affecting the overall average wattage. IOW if Ganna did sprint like hell out of the corners, it wouldn't be the optimal pacing strategy, even if he does have a better 10s sprint from fresh.
 
Last year in Glasgow, Pog nearly fainted after the road race. Staff had to help him move around.

Remco casually does a double after the Tour and destroys those in both events who are only preparing for the Olympics. Already at the Tour I was surprised at his level, nothing so far this year suggested that he'd be comfortable being around Pog and Vingegaard without bad days...